- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Proton: “We’re consolidating our social media presence due to limited resources and no longer posting on Mastodon. Follow us on Reddit for the latest updates”
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Does this have anything to do with the CEO expressing his support for Trump? I can’t imagine how, but there are some odd decisions being made at Proton lately.
I don’t think I’ll be renewing
Check your renewal date. Mine auto-renewed today without any prior notification that it was coming up.
Did he directly express support for trump? I only saw something along the lines of “the Republican party is better than the Dems because they will address big tech”. Albeit that statement itself is misguided in many ways, but curious about what his actual post said?
because they will address big tech
That aged like milk.
Yea agreed
Almost certainly, yes.
People on Mastodon are not happy about those statements, and called Proton out on it relentlessly with every post Proton made. This is Proton running away with their tail between their legs, back to platforms where they have more control and/or are already full of right-wing nutjobs.
If anyone’s looking for secure email, look at tuta.com instead. The email service is very similar in terms of UX and offers better encryption. They don’t offer the rest of Proton’s suite, but…maybe that’s a good thing? I mean, do you want to get locked into an ecosystem?
I used tuta for a while, while they are working the best they can, I ended up leaving the platform. The app, ui, desktop app are really annoying to me. I found their antispam really lacking too.
However their work is still very impressive and they were always honest.
In what way is Tuta’s encryption better?
Proton does not use end-to-end encryption for email headers. That includes the subject lines, senders/recipients, and other potentially sensitive information.
Tuta uses E2EE for email contents AND headers.
Consider for a moment what someone with access to your contacts and subject lines would know about you. For me personally, they would know which political campaigns and causes I donate to, and when. They would know when I see various doctors, and who they are. They would know my travel dates and destinations. They would know what newsletters I read (many of which are also political). Etc.
Tuta it is then.
Sender and recipient can’t be encrypted e2e. How would the server know to whom deliver the email if those are encrypted and not visible to it?
AFAIK tuta encryption extends to the subject line only.
Still a nice addition, don’t get me wrong, but I believe you misunderstood something.
From their own doc:
The only unencrypted data are mail addresses of users as well as senders and recipients of emails.
Contacts and everything else is encrypted similarly in all “secure email” providers, including Proton.
Thank you for the correction.
Sender and recipient can’t be encrypted e2e. How would the server know to whom deliver the email if those are encrypted and not visible to it?
“End-to-end” is a bit of a misnomer in this case. Both Proton and Tuta apply encryption after receiving email in the general case, since email is not sent with E2EE across different providers (in general). Both Proton and Tuta can see your incoming email (body and all) from external servers in the general case — they just don’t store it that way. (This is different when sending email between two Proton users or two Tuta users.)
Yes, that’s absolutely true. Assuming a full PGP flow, (e.g., proton to proton) even in that case the recipient and other metadata (in tuta, excluding subject line) is still visible to the provider.
Hopefully the more people move to secure providers, the more the general case will be transparent PGP, but we are a long way from there…
Imo it’s more like leaving the town full of bullies… completely understandable, I would do the same. Insane amount of hate, for one mistake. People can only see black and white these days…
Agreed. I don’t support their decision to leave mastadon but I totally understand why they did it. Proton is on our side (as much as a company can be) so I don’t get why people keep ripping into them for something that isn’t true. He wasn’t saying he supported Trump, he just hoped the republican party would do something about big tech. Not gonna happen but we can all agree we hope it’ll happen
If you read the whole thing again, he is supporting Trump and the Republicans.
Here is the CEO’s post along with a link to an article with the twitter link.
Great pick by @realDonaldTrump. 10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned. People forget that the current antitrust actions against Big Tech were started under the first Trump admin.
He is supporting Trump’s pick for a roll, fair enough. But the rest of the post, he is talking about how he hopes the republicans will do something about big tech. He isn’t endorsing Trump himself or his stance of policies. Far as I’ve seen he never has. He it literally just stating what the republicans used to be about.
No, he literally STARTED by stating what the republicans used to be about and then added a wildly inaccurate statement about what the republicans are about now.
And he didn’t even need to say anything at all which is the ridiculous thing lost in all this. It was amateur hour showing a huge lack of foresight you’d expect a CEO to have when it comes to things as simple as PR.
But Trump was the first president (since the US tried to break up Microsoft) to seriously start thinking about fighting big tech. Obviously for dumb reasons (they hurt his feelings) but still, I don’t think that statement is inaccurate. However, it is true he isn’t the first politician to say something against big tech. Even so, he was in a position of power to potentially do something about it (even if he never did and likely won’t now given how much they are bending the knee)
You must be new to the internet. People make a drama out of every little shit.
Little shit like praising literal hitler for some other things he did, besides the genocide.
Lol, here comes the drama. And I say that as a person on the opposite spectrum of Trump.
Your words, they smell of lazy deceit.
Just FYI, I’m not a Proton supporter (I find the way overrated), nor an American citizen, nor a MAGA supporter (quite the opposite, actually). I just use common sense. If you’re so stupid to believe otherwise it’s exclusively your problem. Keep crying and jumping from service to service for every little shit. Have fun.
:D apparently yes. it’s still sad to see. There wasn’t a single post done by proton that didn’t immediately derail into people blaming about “the issue”, and they just couldn’t stop. Not a fun time, and there isn’t anything the company can do to convince these people otherwise, they are just a lost in hate
“One mistake” would be if he didn’t double-down on it, and if Proton addressed their customers’ concerns in any meaningful way. Instead, they deleted posts and are now withdrawing from the community entirely, and directing users to three of the worst corporate hell-holes on the internet.
With US aligning with Russia and North Korea and their party taking Kremlin talking points of refusing to say Russia is the aggressor it shows a huge lack of foresight that you’d expect from a CEO. Not like the party hasn’t been accused of being pro Russian years prior or stuff like Project 2025 plans to kill democracy.
This is some amateur stuff.
Their damage was already done with that CEO statement (for me), since after those remarks I cancelled my VPN plan with them. I’m not someone who’s going to then follow them around and post negative comments on their Mastodon, X, reddit account whenever they post. I’m just going to walk away.
So, they will move to where their base is, just like trump did and they can sell there stuff to a smaller percentage of the market if they want. I will never understand why a company would actively try to cut their sales base in half or whatever.
Tuta is really good. The push notifications work perfectly without delay on de-googled devices. top.
They also can’t control the narrative on Mastodon like they do on Reddit and Lemmy through “volunteer mod” Nelizea. I’m glad I quit using them — they are becoming tech bro chuds (or maybe always were but just hid it better)
Especially since reddit is quite ban happy about political narratives right now, gearing the site like with Facebook, who only pushes right wing.
How do they control the narrative around here?
They control moderation, as they also do on Reddit. I don’t know about Lemmy but I have personally been shadowbanned on their Reddit sub. They can’t do that on Mastodon.
Reddit allows more control and is much aggressive in banning people sitewide as of recently. If you attempt to report a comment on reddit, you can get banned instead by the mod
…“the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.”
Like doge having our social security and Treasury wallet+keys? >.>
He can suck my ass and nutts.
From a historical perspective, he wasn’t wrong. The republicans were looking more at big tech cause, in the past, big tech was very left leaning. Things have obviously changed but your quote misses that he was hopeful that Trump would do something for big tech. His hope is obviously miss placed after big tech started sicking his dick but doesn’t mean he couldn’t be hopeful
It was still a completely naive and idiotic thing to say and doesn’t show the forethought and strategic thinking that comes with being a good CEO, especially one of a service that could literally put people’s lives in danger if jeopardized.
So it’s naive to voice his opinion on what a Trump presidency could mean for the tech industry? Looking back to trump’s previous term big tech shunned him and Twitter even kicked him off the platform by the end of his presidency. Back then it pissed Trump off and he threatened all sorts of shit. I don’t think it was that crazy to think that he would still be upset about it and try to do something at the begining of December when Proton’s CEO made that post.
If you look at what proton is trying to do in terms of becoming a complete non-proffit that would have many safeguards in place to undo that change. I think it does show he has some level of forethought. The one caveat being that they have not completed that process and implemented everything yet so we’ll have to see if that promise follows through
big tech was very left leaning
complete bullshit.
Will be missed /s
Follow us on Reddit
That’s where you lost me. Not for now, for good.
Yeah damn that hurts. Just signed up for tuta. I will be leaving proton soon I guess. A shame, I had just finished moving all my communications there…
due to limited resources
Either:
- We have lost our password
- Our C and V keys are broken and we can not copy paste our social media messages anymore
It might be the Control key which broke.
“Privacy is important, so you can follow our latest updates exclusively on the platforms that don’t give a shit about privacy”
On a platform, that will ban you if you look at it wierd
TBF, they push the same content via their email newsletter.
Privacy isn’t particularly good in the fediverse. Any federated instance can track you as much as they want without you ever knowing or consenting.
Self hosting Lemmy is straightforward. Then subscribe to all communities and now you have a treasure trove of data to mine. If you modify the code a bit you can do more like keep deleted posts around or surveil user activities in real time.
That’s not what privacy means. Mastodon is incredibly transparent that everything you do publicly is public - the threat model is very clear here.
Also you can’t compare public tool used for tool interactions to a suite of private tools that is Proton or any other service.
Finally if all of the data is available public for anyone to access this means it’s not exclusive to bad actors like ad machines, government spies etc.
Exactly. The Fediverse is transparent to all the bad actors and they don’t even have to pay for access.
If you post something publicly on a clearly public platform and expect people not to collect or look at your explicitly published information then that’s really on you. No amount of privacy or protection can help you at this point.
I undress in my yard and my neighbors are able to look at my naked ass. How dare they!
Doubt mastodon instances are cookie tracking you across the web, or trying to capture open session on other windows. Mastodon phone apps doesn’t ssk for your location neither.
Only if you use privacy as the opposite of public. “Privacy”, though, generally refers to counter/non-surveillance. It’s not surveillance to be able to access data that you explicitly publish publicly.
Sure, but at least the fediverse doesn’t try to fill your browser of ads and tracking cookies
If they aren’t getting much traction somewhere, but are spending outsized resources there, it makes sense to redirect the manhours elsewhere.
“We hate that our CEO keeps getting called out and slammed by our followers so we’re gonna stick our fingers in our ears”
Also good time to remind everyone Tuta exists :) https://tuta.com/
I’ve been using Tuta Mail for a few years now. No complaints. Most of the features you would expect. Lack of IMAP support is kinda disappointing but survivable. Their email security is very strong though — they encrypt every part of your email, including subject (some providers only encrypt the body). They’re also rolling out post-quantum encryption of email data at rest, which tickles my crypto nerd side.
They’ve still a loong way to go to match Proton’s product suite though, as they only offer Email, Contacts and Calendar for now. They’re working on Drive storage next, which is the main reason I currently use Proton.
Tuta is great, I will start from that. But they encrypt the subject line, in addition to the body afaik. It is technically impossible to encrypt “every part of the email” because that would break delivery (e.g., metadata such as recipient or timestamps).
This also has the cost of a nonstandard protocol (not plain PGP), with all that implies in terms of compatibility, maintenance needs etc.
That’s a fair point about the portability of their protocol. And yeah, you’re right that they don’t encrypt everything. I’d meant to say “they encrypt everything you can encrypt without making the email undeliverable” but my fingers decided to type something else.
They’ve still a loong way to go to match Proton’s product suite though, as they only offer Email, Contacts and Calendar for now
honestly that’s a plus for me, I’d rather they focus on a small set of products and do really well with them. before I left Proton I was wary of their scope creep, and then the crypto wallet shit
Funny that the crypto wallet also upset people in the space who like crypto. Because crypto, IF USED CORRECTLY, can be a privacy tool (because it is the main way to pay online that can be utilized without KYC). However, such people got upset not just with Proton broadening their product scope for no reason, but also the fact that Monero was not even considered, despite it having built-in privacy protections unlike Bitcoin, and overall being agreed on as today’s “digital cash”.
This is the first time hearing about Tuta, Thank you
How does this factor in to all this? https://archive.ph/xoleo
Would’ve switched in a heartbeat with IMAP support but that’s not in the cards. Stuck with Proton for now.
Wait… neither Proton supports IMAP! (unless you install their local bridge)
Yeah I use the bridge.
A better way to put it is that email clients don’t support Proton. And I doubt any are going to make an effort to, unless the way Proton works becomes the norm. You would have to completely redesign the email client.
It’s far easier for everyone to write an app that can then be used by any email client.
Tuta is fantastic.
If Proton does not refer to the Steam’s Windows adapter layer for Linux, I don’t care.
I liked electrons and neutrons better anyways…
Underrated comment, right here!!
Please no, no more shitty electron apps
Proton just dropping the ball over and over again these days. That’s why I’m working on migrating from their sevices, then deleting my Proton account.
Me too, but I just can’t stand Tuta UX (unless it got better recently).
It’s a little better, but still not as clean as Proton. The mobile menus really suck.
But they’re good enough, so I use them.
I did weeks of work migrating every password and email address to proton. Sucks the stances they are taking but now I’m kinda stuck, and it’s still better than Google.
Im sure there are tools/scripts for migrating easily. Proton is a sinking ship, anyone who denies it is just lying to themselves at this point.
That’s impossible, the email aliases are under their domain. You’d have to change all your accounts. I’m not doing that again. Hopefully they just change their tune.
Bittwarden or KeyPassXC are good self-hosteable alternatives.
Yeah but without email aliases it would not be worth it
What do you mean by email aliases?
Every account I have on the internet has a unique randomly generated email that forwards to my real email.
iCloud and Proton are the two big names that support this. It’s invaluable.
I’ve been using neomailbox for almost 10 years for this, so maybe check them out
Ah, I see the confusion. Originally you mentioned two Proton services, password manager and email provider. The person who replied to you suggested two alternative password managers (one commercial, the other one FOSS). You then replied saying without a specific email feature it would be pointless, which would be fair for an alternative email provider but doesn’t apply in this case.
Well since in proton the email alias feature is integrated into the password manager (which is really useful) I don’t see them as that unlinked. It would be like having a password manager without the ability to make random passwords, basically pointless. One compromised service and my email will be spammed across the internet until the end of time.
There are other options for email aliases. iCloud has a pretty robust system, and its ubiquity makes it less likely to be filtered.
If it’s an unknown or less popular service they are less likely to add it to a blacklist IME
True, but that’s defense by concealment. If they notice the domain, they can block it without harming their business. My argument is that iCloud is too large for them to block.
Bitwarden integrates directly with several email alias providers: https://bitwarden.com/blog/add-privacy-and-security-using-email-aliases-with-bitwarden/
That might be worth it. Is bitwarden self hosted FOSS?
It is.
Tuta has a catch-all option that you could consider. Makes it so you can make any email address under your domain and it’ll get to your mailbox.
Btw, their Mastodon account has more followers than their Bluesky and Threads accounts combined, both of which they are keeping. What a stupid decision.
It’s not stupidity; it’s censorship. They can control what gets posted on their own Reddit community. They can’t control what people are actually saying on the fediverse.
People need to realize that Proton has gone to the shitter; stop paying for them and migrate away as soon as possible.
And reddit has been extra aggressive in allowing mods ban users more easier too, as of this month. Now some mods are “cahoots with admins”
Hmm good point. Honestly didn’t think about that. In that case I’m surprised they’re keeping the Bluesky account up, the replies are 90% negative there.
Checked both out of curiosity and seems like they are active on twitter but stopped posting weeks ago on bluesky after their feelings got hurt there from ceo backlash.
I predict they will mostly be on X and Meta platform
They will leave Blue sky for twitter once , people find out as well, mark my words, and they will add Facebook eventually, since it’s still the place where right wingers flee to have more administrative control over their groups, of they get ousted from reddit
Why not on Nostr? No any freaked admin, etc
also nobody really cares about nostr
Well, we have to carry info to the masses so that we don’t repeat the story of BlueSky, where yesterday the moderators deleted a not-so-dangerous video but reopen after an uproar. It’s the same Twitter, side view. So far, I’m only getting minuses. 😏
I think the main problem is they don’t want to maintain multiple accounts
This is the second VPN that has gone shitty on me…
Well, read comments under their latest posts on Mastodon. Solid shitstorm of 9 Beaufort since more than a month.
