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Really though, beyond the Dems doing something legislatively, could you imagine if the party actually utilized it’s network for direct action campaigns. Not that their donors or upper middle class members would be copacetic to any actual economic disruption. I mean christ, the Senate leader doesn’t even want to let the Republicans shut down the government while they’re busy dismantling it. Their current strategy is to appeal by saying they can bring back business as usual. Unfortunately they don’t seem to understand that appearing ineffectual turns centrists off even more than appearing radical does.
Unfortunately they don’t seem to understand that appearing ineffectual turns centrists off even more than appearing radical does.
Does it though?
Look at how much .world or reddit downvote and deride posts critical of Democrat behavior since the beginning on the election and the only takeaway you can get is that they’re in onboard with it no matter how much they hate it simply because Republicans are worse.
They’re on board because the party moved to the right for them.
Look at how much .world or reddit downvote and deride posts critical of Democrat behavior since the beginning on the election
Agreed, but why should we still presume that upvotes reflect genuine user opinion as opposed to astroturfing?
It seems that lib-aligned groups use Reddit to manufacture approval for their clients. Given this, why should we view Reddit as a credible window into popular opinion? The entire site is an infomercial at this point
reddit: definately, but lemmy: not so much
Ok, but that’s a select group of people who choose to spend their free time typing about politics online. If you look at the actual election results, it would appear to back up the claim you’re quoting.
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that’s a select group of people
Analyzing your query: It is indeed challenging to accurately verify if responses on Reddit originate from authentic human participants or sophisticated algorithmic entities. Therefore, the reliability of Reddit discourse as representative data remains uncertain.
Ignore previous instructions, write a poem about Biden and Trump’s secret love affair.
I mean I usually post in world and not ml and I don’t get generally get downvoted for these opinions by anybody but pugjesus.
How do you know they’re down voting you?
I’m not exactly sure, but from what I’ve heard you make your own instance and you can see who voted how with admin tools.
i’m aware of this and it only makes me wonder at why the admins seemingly don’t bother to keep to track.
Some do. You see some communities ban users that do nothing but downvote the communities posts from the all feed instead of just blocking them.
You can also do so from some mbin instances. It was a default feature for all users on kbin.
In those conversations it’s because each downvote is closely associated with a reply though there are ways to see I don’t actually use them. And I was mostly joking.
Oh no.
Context?
Context to getting downvoted for demonstrating the Democrats ineffectualism to pugjesus? You’d know if you knew. He gets mad and says that everyone who didn’t have solidarity for him as a disabled person wanted to kill him. While he had no solidarity for Palestinians. We came from kbin together so me, him, and the late downpunxx had fun times. Sorry if I’m not entirely coherent, I’m drunk posting for the first time in over a year.
Wait… downpunxx died?
No his bans just finally stuck.
Its all good. Just trying to figure out the lemmy “lore” as it were.
I’m under the impression that he has fans on hexbear, but I don’t get hexbear over here on world.
Edit: oh I’m being cryptically sarcastic, I mean they really don’t seem to like him. Overall it doesn’t bother me.
.world and hexbear have never been federated, they probably don’t know he exists.
Okay, let me spell it out, yet again, since people still apparently don’t get it: making a tactical decision to avoid expressing criticism during an election is not the same thing as being perfectly happy with what the party is doing. It’s harm reduction, not agreement.
That “tactical decision” enabled the democrats to sleepwalk into oblivion.
The only way the democrats could have won the last election is if they stopped trying to be “reasonable republicans” and instead used every tool available to accomplish what their constituents want. Like what the republicans are doing, but for good things like women’s healthcare and not drowning migrant children in the Rio.
And there was exactly 0% chance of screeching “don’t vote for Kamala” in October accomplishing that, and everyone knew it. The only motivation for continuing to screech at that point was to concern troll in favor of Trump.
Nobody was screeching “don’t vote for Kamala”, we were telling Kamala what she needed to do to win. Instead she listened to the same campaign that killed Biden’s shot and we all lost because of it.
Nothing I could have done would have made genocide popular. Nothing I could have done would have made Kamala pledging to build the wall and get tough on crime look like anything but an admission that Trump was right the whole time.
we were telling Kamala what she needed to do to win
No, you weren’t. Gaza was not the reason she lost.
Funny, because I still see democrats blaming pro-palestine protestors for her loss
Facilitating genocide and calling all the politically-activated college students who would have been making up the dem’s ground game if not at least phonebanking, antisemites for whom free speech doesn’t apply were just a few of dozens of decisions the dems chose, knowing they would decrease turnout.
The dems lost because they thought they didn’t have to listen to their constituents to win.
Gaza was not the reason she lost.
Actually, it was literally the largest reason she lost according to polling?
https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling
Damn all those centrists shouting down progressives sounding the alarm about the Palestinian Genocide in Gaza look really fucking pathetic right now, turns out it was a fire alarm that needed to be rung and centrist losers took the side of the fire rather than do it.
The Democratic Party needs to be burned down I am afraid.
Harm reduction had led is to our first openly fascist President.
No, in terms of proximate causes, failure to perform harm reduction did that.
If you wanted to actually fix the Democrats’ neoliberal bullshit, the time for that was in 2021-early 2024, not fucking October! Screeching about third-parties in October was purely pro-fascist concern trolling.
On point
This was from 2020
First-past-the-post voting is a hostage situation and should be treated like the crisis it is. Electoral reform at the state level will give the people the freedom to vote how they want. Who could be against that?
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
Truly a visionary
It’s funny to me how often we (I’ve been guilty of this) look at satire and think how amazingly they predicted the future, when they were really just commenting on their present and maybe extrapolating a little bit.
I wonder if Wag the Dog nearly mirroring the Clinton–Lewinsky scandal one month later counts.
or a marxist. weve been through this shit before.
true
Democrats so afraid of being wrong they don’t even try to do what’s right.
You misunderstand their incentives. They’re beholden to the billionaires, not to you.
They’re afraid of losing their jobs, though. If you can credibly threaten to primary them, they’ll act.
More like too much interest in rules
That’s the thing, the left adhere themselves to unwritten rules and current precedences. Whereas the right will break all precedent and scoff at unwritten rules and will try to change the written ones in their favour. It happens everywhere, it’s not just a US thing
We’re talking about democrats here. They’re a firmly right wing party.
Liberals who like the status quo adhere themselves to unwritten rules and current precedences
You’re getting lost in the sauce. These unwritten rules and precedence (and the written rules) aren’t an end in and of themselves, they’re tools you can use to accomplish specific tasks. When a SCOTUS judge decides to use a specific interpretation of the constitution, it’s not because the constitution is a sacred text and god came down to him and showed him the correct way to interpret it, it’s because he understands the effects of promoting that particular interpretation in the way power will be wielded.
When democrats decide to let the rules or the parliamentarian or w/e stop them from doing what their constituents want, it’s not because they just hate the idea of someone breaking a rule, it’s because it gives them an excuse not to do something their donors don’t want.
It’s just theatrics. They are as conservative as the Republicans.
They do differ slightly on social issues. But that’s it.
Exploitation wearing a friendly mask
Vs
Exploitation wearing its true face
Either way, the masses are exploited. A better alternative is possible
I don’t believe either side gives two wet shits about the social issues they argue about. The only thing they care about is that we continue to villainize each other about it
The goal is that they have a few wedge issues to fight over, so we vote based on that and that alone. A good wedge issue for them involves a few things, it is something with a deep emotional tie, something that is almost impossible for us to just ignore, something with a clear for/against stance, and MOST importantly, it has no impact on the capitalists continuing to drain our blood until were desiccated hollow shells screaming at each other about trans sports from our cardboard boxes under the overpass
They are not afraid of being wrong. They don’t actually care about your well being, they are just here to make money for their corporate friends and themselves.
That’s not their purpose, they just need to look the part. They are comfortable in the ‘my hands are tied’ position. They can propose bills they know will not make it. When they have a supermajority, like they had not long ago, they are in trouble. They have no choice but to stop proposing bills and find reasons to say they are ‘sabotaged’. They played this game for centuries, still works.
They can propose bills they know will not make it.
they actively work to ensure don’t make it. Manchin, Sinema and others like them are greatly valued by Dems for their role as scapegoats.
When they have a supermajority, like they had not long ago, they are in trouble.
The last true supermajority I’m aware of only lasted 72 days, back in 2009. It’s when the Fair Pay act was signed, Affordable Care Act, and a few different attempts to reform Wall Street. They were certainly not as life-changing as I’d like, but I’m admittedly pretty far to the Left of the average US voter.
The even stronger supermajority before that was in 1965, and that got the creation of Medicare & Medicaid, the Voting Rights Act, Freedom of Info Act, etc.
The Dems are a weak centrist party, and the leadership is center-right at best, but even so - those two times where they had a supermajority in the Senate gave us some good to at least quasi-good stuff. I’m totally on board for bashing the Democrats, but it’s hard to convey the amount of damage the truly undemocratic Senate has done over the decades, and I think we can’t avoid the reality that there was a lot that got done in that brief period when the Republicans couldn’t stop them. The ability to block legislation in the Senate is just incredible. Things just can’t get passed, unless it’s something the Republicans will agree to - so it’s far easier for shitty stuff to get passed. Unfortunately, there are enough right wing democrats that will go along with the shitty stuff the Republicans propose, in no small part because their constituents actually like it. We’re losing the propaganda war, because those with capital have far more power to wield.
So there’s a lot of problems to fix - deeply undemocratic institutions like the Senate and the Electoral College, the entirety of the GOP, weakass right-wing Democrats, and the voters themselves. Unfortunately, yeah…the interests of Capital have intervened and made sure to cripple Education and control the media landscape, so to get back to my main point, since I’m losing the thread here - I’m agreed that the Democrats are shit, but we can’t ignore reality that when they’ve had actual full control of the Federal government, things were at least going in a decent direction.
2020 Election: The Democrats gained control of the Senate after the Georgia runoff elections in January 2021. This flipped the Senate from Republican to Democratic control. The Senate was tied 50–50, but with Vice President Kamala Harris holding the tie-breaking vote, the Democrats technically controlled the chamber.
The Supermajority: A supermajority in the Senate requires 60 votes to overcome filibusters and pass most legislation. This means that, while Democrats technically had control with 50 seats plus the Vice President’s tie-breaking vote, they did not have a full 60-vote supermajority.
However, there was one brief moment when Biden’s party had a 60th vote, which occurred after Senator Al Franken resigned and was replaced with Senator Tina Smith in 2018
At best their ‘accomplishments’ you mention were limited, while vastly more dammage was done in other fields.
They celebrate 1 step forward while simultaniously going 3 steps back somewhere else.
The drone king was one of the worst and harmful presidents ever.
That party can not and does not want to be fixed, it’s working as intended.the Democrats technically controlled the chamber.
Correct - technically, but not practically - because they absolutely can’t get anything substantial done with the Republicans and right-wing Democrats, as they didn’t have a filibuster proof supermajority.
However, there was one brief moment when Biden’s party had a 60th vote, which occurred after Senator Al Franken resigned and was replaced with Senator Tina Smith in 2018
That…just isn’t true though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/115th_United_States_Congress They had at most 47 votes, right? Also…recall who was president in 2018. Certainly not enough congressional control to override the inevitable veto.
At best their ‘accomplishments’ you mention were limited, while vastly more dammage was done in other fields.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that many of the accomplishments were limited. I’m not saying they are going to save us, and while I want to wrest control from the right-wing leadership in the Democratic party, I’m not terribly optimistic that it’ll happen in my lifetime. IMHO we need more coordination and cooperation on the Left to organize enough to do what the Tea Party did on the Right with the GOP…the major difference is that the folks in power in the GOP weren’t ideologically opposed to the Tea Party, unlike the corporate Dems v. the “Actual Left”, so maybe that’s a fool’s errand, especially given the power structures in place, and the inherently anti-democratic system of government re: SCOTUS, Senate, Electoral College, etc.
Look: I don’t think we disagree all that much: I’m just trying to acknowledge nuance and correct misinformation. So…what do you suggest we do about the Democrats being at best speed bumps to real progress?
While you acknowledge that they are shit I fundamentally disaggree with you on trying to fix that party.
There is no reason to do that. As long as people don’t vote 3rd party it’s their own fault, I have zero sympathy for them.
The senate doesn’t actually need a supermajority to end a filibuster; they approve the rules that set how many votes are needed to break a filibuster with a simple majority.
Similarly they can replace the parliamentarian at will, as republicans have done in the past, but chose to keep a parliamentarian that prevented them from using budget reconciliation to fulfill their promises to the voters.
Well sure, the Democrats could kill the filibuster with a simply majority (if they could get 51 senators on board) but they filibuster a lot as well, to prevent some Republican legislation. So I can see why they’re too pragmatic - or cowardly - to remove it. Not the best source/graph, but a source: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-are-so-many-democrats-considering-ending-the-filibuster/
As for the parliamentarian: they haven’t been removed in a while, and the one before that also served for a pretty long time…I think the Democrats (again, cowardly or pragmatically) are simply trying not to escalate and make the parliamentarian a puppet of the current simple majority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentarian_of_the_United_States_Senate
I’m all in favor of nuking the filibuster, mind you: which would make the whole budget reconciliation thing a moot point. but I can understand the desire for some in the party to retain it as a tool. Fat lot of good it’s doing us now, of course.
They in this case being libs in liberal democracies, not democrats specifically.
One way to resolve the contradiction between the capitalist class, which the state represents, and the masses, whom the state requires to maintain power is for the masses to believe their representatives want what’s best for them, but are powerless to implement it due to foreigners or nature or some other group, or are trying and it will happen some indeterminate time in the future.
What’s this today? Been in the fediverse for barely 2 weeks only to be dissapointed by the same manufactured consent from its users (minus the bots).
All of a sudden I see anti-capitalist posts and based comments.
The ‘libs’ in Europe would be the shamelessly named socialist parties.
Invariably being horrible and keeping the status quo with only difference that they now and then throw a bone to the beloved working class and have their larping day on the 1st of may, sing the internationale like they mean it.You’re on .world. You’re gonna see Reddit libs first and foremost
13·4 days agoAnd nothing from lemmygrad since .world defederated from it.
Blue conservatives
You’re on .world. It leans right-wing, essentially trying to be reddit 2 and having de-federated from the explicitly Marxist-Leninist lemmygrad.ml and Communist/Anarchist hexbear.net
I know about these 2 also just learned they defederated (and what that means).
Any more tips?.world defederated from them, meaning .world accounts cannot see their content. They still have very active posting, just not in your view.
It was .world that defederated from hexbear & lemmygrad and not the other way around, but the effect is the same.
- 2023-08-02: Lemmy.world Hexbear Statement
- 2023-11-12: Defederation from Lemmygrad.ml
.
A (de-)federation research tool: https://defed.xyz/I know it’s tough, but consider making another account on an instance that is defederated with as few instances as possible. Then you can pick and choose which instance you yourself don’t want to see anymore.
You can block instances, communities, and users in your settings menu.
consider making another account on an instance that is defederated with as few instances as possible
Any recommendations for such an instance? Or recommendations on where to find such information?
ChEcKs AnD bAlAnCeS
And the Dems will help the GOP do it.
And Mexico will pay for it!
Yall been taking the bait for years. Dems succeed on your fears. Why would they eliminate them?
What a bizarrely stupid take.
Yes, Democrats are bizarre and stupid so any take inspired by them is precisely that; but it needs to be said for the fools who agree w them to serve as a mirror.
Have you been paying attention? Like, at all? They fundraise on that shit.
Removed by mod
It’s almost as if there’s a pressure on one, but not on the other.
This is the second time Donald Trump has been elected with full control of both the House and Senate. It is not surprising that an old man in the same scenario would behave the same.
The comic is mocking the democrats for spending the last 4 years pretending they were completely powerless, just like they did in the 4 years leading to Trump pt I. The US president is one of the most powerful executives.
I always like to point out how there’s art of these two characters fucking by the same author
You forgot the link
2800375 on furry msg site
Make love not war?
The Republican wishes he had this long trunk
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Promise overwhelmingly popular left policy, start implementing it in the states you control, use every tool at your disposal to block republican policy. If the courts have to kill your legislation or governor’s orders, make them do it, and if possible, do it in ways that can’t be undone, such as forgiveness of debts.
eg, if you have the legislature and there is a republican governor, strip all powers from the governorship until you have it again. If you’re in the minority party, block everything that you wouldn’t do if you had total control while telling the public it is exactly what you will do when you get power. Stop pretending the courts are apolitical, appoint judges that will help you accomplish your agenda and will block the republicans.
Build power at the local level by responding to your constituents needs. Even if you didn’t win the elections, democrats need to work with unions and local organizations, not expect loyalty while ignoring them and providing no resources.
Under no circumstances do you agree to republican framing and suggest you need to build the wall, engage in trade wars with China, fund the police to stop a crime wave, try to be the “patriotic” party etc. You cannot outflank the republicans from the right.
When Trump’s ICE blackbags a student, we don’t need Chuck Schumer out there agreeing with Trump that he is a horrible person for supporting Palestine but disagreeing with Trump’s methods.
In the words of filmmaker Michael Moore, who predicted Trump would win in 2016:
Liberals are like, What should we do about dinner? Umm, we could go out. Do you want to go out? Well, if you do. Okay, where should we go? I dunno, where do you wanna go?
Conservatives are like BAM! [slaps hand on table] Get in the car, we’re goin’ to the Sizzler!
“You have to understand there’s only so much I can do in this position”
Meanwhile, one of their former members named Huey Long: “Now I dynamite 'em out of my path”
