Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” [Y/N]
One side is working to dismantle democracy. The other side is not. If you don’t vote blue you are enabling Republicans to enact Project 2025. You would enable Republicans to take away rights from LGBT people in America. You would enable abortion bans and enable even more of the genocide in Gaza. You would enable Republicans to do all the types of stuff listed in the meme, and they will try.
I am convinced some of the far left that won’t vote for Biden because of the war in Gaza are being influenced by Republicans. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those people are Republicans trying to get people not to vote for Biden. It may not be an ideal situation, but if you don’t vote for Biden because you think he is handling the war in Gaza horribly, you are doing exactly what the Republicans want you to do. Maybe someday we’ll be able to vote for someone better than him. But for now, you have to understand the reality of our two party system, and deal with it. At the very least, don’t do what the Republicans would want you to do: staying home rather than going out and voting for Biden
For all their many flaws: Democrats leave office without attempting coups when they lose.
Republicans now know they can elect a functional fascist if he has a little popular support. Democratic institutions may not be lucky enough to hold again.
In 2020, 80 million didn’t vote. How do you fix that?
One side is working to dismantle democracy. The other side is not.
Both “sides” don’t give a fuck about people or democracy, both the red and blue party support dictatorships around the world, genocide and unjust wars. If you vote red or blue you are giving your vote to corrupted criminal murderers with blood on their hands. If i don’t support Stalin in WWII it does not mean that i’m supporting Hitler, the choice is yours! Not voting for red or blue does NOT mean voting for the other color.
Wait… You were against the allies in World War II? Are you one of those Charles Lindbergh leftists I keep hearing about?
Are you pro russia?
You can be against Hitler and Stalin at the same time they were both awful dictatiors. Life it’s not a football match you don’t have to pick a side
Okay, Lindbergh Leftist. Yes, I would have been pro Soviet Union during World War II because Nazis are not just worse, but far worse.
You can be against Hitler and Stalin at the same time, is this to hard to gasp for you?
Yeah, like Charles Lindbergh who was against participating on either side.
I wonder what his political beliefs were.
The democrats are worse than the republicans because they’re letting them enact horrible republican policies
Make it make sense
the democrats are fundamentally closer to republicans in status and solidarity than they are to most working class americans that they claim to represent.
True, but irrelevant. You haven’t explained how they’re worse for failing to prevent the republicans from doing stuff
you are interpreting what i said as democrats are worse than republicans. i don’t really see much of a difference in them at this point
Are you blind? How can you not see a difference?
considering AIPAC buys democrats and blackmails up and coming progressives I’d say that the democrats are pretty fascist themselves because AIPAC is a zionist organization furthering the zionist colonial project. our choices are fascism or sugar coated fascism. im not choosing either, thanks.
It’s questionable whether or not IVF is possible in Alabama right now.
You have to be trolling.
I cant even afford IVF so its not possible for me at all. Make sure test tube babies are ok but babies already born in gaza dying can be sacrificed. Gotchu
its not irrelevant. no war but class war. the people that fight and die in war are not the aristocrats and politicians that start them. biden is our enemy as much as trump is
I think Ukrainians and Palestinians would disagree with the notion that “there is no war but class war”. A good salary, food security, and affordable healthcare do not cure racism and fascism.
the difference between ukraine and palestine is that the US and the west have a vested capital interest in ukraine. there is no capital investment in palestine. there is in israel. new yorks state employee pension along with texas’s is secured in israeli bonds. follow the money.
palestinians don’t even have any sort of internationally recognized statehood. they have no sovereignty over themselves. this is about class. i personally don’t have a vested interest in ukraine. but the capitalist ruling class here does. the ukrainian people are victims as much as the palestinians are victims of fascism and racism just as much as the palestinians are but the main difference is that one has the united states backing it along with the entire capitalist class corporate infrastructure. the palestinians don’t have that. and who fights the wars? the rich? nope. the poor, who have nothing to offer as means except their bodies, labor and life. there is solidarity at the top, even amongst geopolitics. i mean they all gather in the same room together and act polite and do pleasantries while we have to grit and bear it in the virtual and physical hellscapes they create.
he also did fuck all about east palestine and let norfolk southern run the show
When he said he’s the most pro-union president ever, he was right. But he’s still a capitalist so it doesn’t mean shit. A pro-union capitalist will still let corporations get away with negligent homicide.
?
They had to pay for all the remediation, which is not just a slap on the wrist.
the residents of east palestine are all sick and have been getting worse since the event and the subsequent controlled burn off of the chemicals. there are still checmicals in the water but the EPA says its fine. norfolk southern says its fine. the east palestinians are getting sicker and sicker by the day and not getting nearly enough attention.
I don’t disagree with the intended meaning of any of this
However, it would be more effective with increased clarity if the text were revised to state that he “Didn’t expand the Supreme Court beyond nine, and did not appoint those additional new justices” or even simply “Did not increase the size of the Supreme Court” or something like that. Because he did appoint Kentanji Brown Jackson to SCOTUS, and people will point that out under your current writing of it which will derail discussion of the actual points. Revising the text will foreclose the possibility of that derailment
4 of these are just, ‘he failed to do more to undo the Republican’s party’s efforts’.
If my choices are veiled fascism or open fascism I’d rather have it out in the open so we can fight it.
Well good thing those aren’t your choices.
If we’re willing to condone genocide by an ally then we’re willing to condone one here. And the reason it’s called veiled is because they have the same goals, they’re just shy about saying it out loud.
You realize that if Biden were legitimately committing genocide in Palestine, America would officially be at war with Palestine… right?
Please tell us that you understand this. It’s important that we all know you understand this.
You do realize how responsibility works? Because down your illogical rabbit hole lies this future statement, “If Biden isn’t personally shooting them is he really responsible for the genocide?”
The answer to your question lies in the madness of de facto versus de jure. De Facto, we are and this is why the Houthis are going after our ships. Just like the Germans did in both world wars. De Jure, there is no war in Ba Sing Se.
Cause that worked so well in Germany.
Voting for the guys that gave Hitler a position of power for temporary political gain sure as hell didn’t work.
The electoral Congress decides who’s president, though. Why shouldn’t I as a far-leftist vote third party to express my discontentment with a democratic party that only wants to appeal to the right? I’m tired of people telling me Biden is good enough when we had a actual progressive who had a shot just a few years ago. The climate can’t wait, and the Palestinian people certainly can’t. A placid, centrist left in the face of fascism looks useless to me I’m not sorry. Read a fucking history book.
You had an actual progressive years ago…yes. You don’t have one this year.
You say the climate can’t wait…so which path is better: 1 - push for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, invest $2T in green tech and infrastructure, OR 2 - boost oil and gas production, roll back environmental regulations
Palestine can’t wait…which path is better: 1 - publicly support Israel while pressuring them to limit civilian casualties, work towards a cease fire OR 2 - sending ICE to break up pro-Palestinian protests in the US to remove any protesters here illegally, implement ideological screening as part of the immigration process, stoke anti-muslim sentiment here and abroad.
Read a fucking history book? The Repub is using the same power-consolidation strategy as Hitler, there’s Nazis chilling at cpac, LGBTQ folks are being targeted by Republicans across the country, burning books, politicians changing the contents of history curriculum…they say history doesn’t repeat itself but it sure does rhyme. Well, this is straight-up plagiarism.
Yes because there are two paths, only two. Revolution is never a option and we should eat ALLLLL the shit they feed us, thankful for scraps as the fires burn more and more intense. 2050? Do you hear yourself? The damage is already irreparable, that’s far too late. We need action now and a president who hasn’t sold their soul to oil, if such a thing could ever possibly exist. I AM lgbt (trans) and IMHO this is a problem because he’s looking out for conservative billionaires instead. I tell you to look at the history because I agree, the Republicans are Nazis… And a centrist left conceded power to them or had it stolen then too.
Show the viable candidate.
I’m not calling for a violent revolution because I’ve been to a war zone before, and I don’t want that here. That’s the only 3rd path I see for this election cycle. My daughter is also LGBTQIA so it’s personal for me too.
Does there have to be one for joe biden to be bad? I’m sure there’s a least a million individual people who could do the job better. At the end of the day I just don’t see any reason to defend the guy, he seemingly has no real passion or empathy and is leaving a lot in this country undone or worse for the wear whilst letting the right fearmonger incessantly
I mean, there has to be a President…and it’s nearly a statistical guarantee that it will be Trump or Biden unless one of them dies before November. So no, there doesn’t have to be a good candidate for Biden to be a bad one…but he’s the best option we have this time around. Like, if I had 2 options for a house for my kids to live in and 1 is rundown shithole and has lead paint and a busted up foundation and the other a cardboard box under an overpass I’ll take the lead paint while I work for something better…every time.
Well there has to come a point when the second option’s just not worth settling for. That analogy is so spot on it hurts that you can’t see my point.
I tell you to look at the history because I agree, the Republicans are Nazis… And a centrist left conceded power to them or had it stolen then too.
This is precisely why you should vote for Democrats. The Nazi rise to power is a cautionary tale of what happens when both liberals and leftists don’t take the fascist threat seriously. They’ll play off the fascists to try and get one over the other – you’ve pointed this out with the centrist left already, and how they gave him power. But it’s also important to recognize that the leftists weren’t terribly concerned either. “After Hitler, us!”. They foolishly thought the fascists would let there be an “after” and resigned themselves.
There is only one path forward, and I like to explain it in terms of LotR. The dwarves and elves may dislike each other and sometimes be on the verge of war, but as soon as the orcs appear, they work together as one. The fascists warrant our full attention and scorn. We can never make the same mistake of the Germans to let animosity among those left of center take priority over stomping out fascists.
People often say that voting third party is throwing away your vote, but using your vote as a protest like you describe is perfectly valid. Politicians from the major parties do care about how they can appeal to swingable voters, and third parties getting more votes does makes them more influential for future policy. You give up having influence between the two people who actually have a chance in the current election, but realistically you didn’t in the first place if you don’t live in a battleground state.
It’s your vote. Don’t let other people chide you for not spending it on what they think you should. Just use it for a cause that’s worthwhile to you. It’s the people who don’t vote at all that get ignored.
Fuck I needed to hear that, thanks. I just believe a lot of Biden voters are relentlessly optimistic and more than a little naive- there’s a lot of propaganda afoot lately but I think it’s important to talk about my choice too. Obviously we need things like ranked-choice voting for third party votes in this country to make a real difference ASAP but IIRC if a party’s candidate gets even 5% of the vote in a election they qualify for some federal funding. I don’t think it’s impossible to fight for better representation and win in the long run that way.
If you live in a state that’s not contested, sure vote third party if that makes you feel better. But the reality is that not voting blue in any purple state does benefit the party you are less aligned with. So in the case of a leftist it would benefit republicans. I also would love an alternative to a two party system but in THIS election a vote that benefits republicans is a vote for a 1 party system.
It will continue to be that way in every election as long as people resign themselves to voting for either party that has no intention of ever giving you a “fix” to the two party system. Why would a Democrat or a Republican want to get a third party elected? Makes 0 sense. Let’s say you vote for a Democrat… How does that then incentivize them to do anything differently than how they’re already doing it? Your voting for them is tacit approval of their current agenda and party machinations. If they don’t lose or get challenged by something further to the left, they will never move left. They will continue to pander towards centerist voters. Since our Overton window is already right of center with the Democrats basically being center-right and the Republicans being further right, they will only move rightwards with this strategy. They only pander towards centrists because the centrist vote isn’t guaranteed. So in order for them to move leftward, they need to see that the left voter is not a guaranteed vote. The only way to do that at the ballot box is by voting for someone further to the left than the Democratic party. Yes that might mean that Democrats start to lose, but if they do it’s their own damn fault for not appealing to the leftist voter.
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you.
You’re not just doing a protest. If you believe in left values, you’re making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
It’s downright selfish imho.
If you believe in left values, you’re making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
democrats, especially joe biden, are not on the left
They’re realistically though the closest thing we have. They absolutely do less damage when in office. If you actually want things to get better. We have to stop doing damage or at least slow down the damage first. It’s basic logic.
I’ve about given up. It seems as though most of lemmy is more than happy to smugly let the perfect destroy the good.
I’m sure the additional dead kids in Palestine and Ukraine and very likely most of the middle east and Europe or Russia (depending on how NATO fares after the US leaves) will thank them for voting for RFK Jr or Jill Stein or Mickey Mouse. I don’t think my daughter will thank them when she gets sent to federally mandated “don’t be gay” camp or has to hide who she is for the rest of her life but hey, at least we made a point. Just like vaccines, sometimes I guess we have to suffer as a species to remember things.
Man, I’m jaded today.
You have to remember a lot of the people posting that bs likely aren’t Americans and either have an anti western agenda or are being paid to post divisive shit. It’s annoying because Lemmy is such a small community that these accounts appear wayyyyy more than they really should, so it gives the impression that there’s loads of them, but really they are a minority. Chances are they also have a bunch of smurf accounts so it could literally just be one room of guys posting mountains of bullshit every day.
Or there are lots of genuine American leftists in this space like me that believe the things they’re saying and are trying to argue for a better world or a solution. And then they get met with comments that tell them they’re likely not Americans or they’re anti-West or that they’re getting paid to shill. How do I know you’re not getting paid to post what you said? How do I know you’re not some pro-Democrat smurf account run by some party staffer? But instead of asking, what if I made a comment that just said you probably were?
he wrote the usa patriot act and the crime bill. he stopped student debt from being discharged in bankruptcy. bill clinton pushed “welfare reform”. obama destroyed habeas corpus, murdering a us citizen without trial. kids-in-cages is an obama era policy. obama signed taarp.
i don’t believe they do less damage at all.
I believe that you believe that. But I also know that your belief in that doesn’t make it true. Whether or not one approves of Obama’s actions with drones overseas. Which for the record I don’t. He didn’t end habeas corpus. You are being hyperbolic and disingenuous. Despite my disproval of it. It was a one-time thing with some fairly decent justification behind it. That hasn’t led to any actual policy changes that could be pointed out.
The Patriot Act per Wikipedia
The Patriot Act was written by Jim Sensenbrenner.
Completely unsurprising. You’re lying again. To be fair Biden did claim credit. Stupid liberal doin stupid liberal things.
As far as TARP was concerned. Was there anything they could have realistically done that you would have approved of? No? Then why should we care what you think. Yes, tarp was a bit of a crock of shit. But unfortunately it was the best we were going to get and it was a good thing that we did get it ultimately.
As far as blocking student loan debt from being expunged with bankruptcy. Yes, stupid liberal doing stupid liberal things. However, Biden is also been one of the most active pushing for forgiveness of student loan debt. Could you be any more fake or disingenuous?
everything they said was right. your accusation of disengenuity is itself bad faith. just because you don’t believe somebody could be to the left of Joe Biden and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton doesn’t make you right.
what’s Joe Biden lying too?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act
Arguably they’re more left than the right is left.
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you
no it doesn’t. the vote belongs to the voter, and they can give it to any candidate they like. the votes are not owned by the 2 major parties.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
i think they’d rather some other candidate win. that’s probably why they’re voting for some other candidate
You’re not just doing a protest.
they’re not calling it a protest, either. they’re calling it a vote.
Liberals aren’t left. I like this take by Phil Ochs
"In every American community, you have varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
And I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I’d lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I’m a liberal
Get it?"
The far left isn’t voting because electoral politics are a distraction from actual revolutionary action. While y’all are too busy choosing the lesser evil that will eventually “compromise” with the worse evil because “we need a strong republican party” the far left is taking more direct approaches.
What a load of self righteous nonsense. Even if anyone believed you, it takes a couple hours out of a day to vote at absolute maximum. I think the revolution can spare that, no?
Yeah voting is something that happens, at most, twice a year - with primaries and the general. So a total of 2 hours a year is really a immaterial use of time and effort
Every few months if you participate in local elections. WHICH YOU SHOULD. Revolution should always be the last resort. But so many long for revolution but can’t be bothered to actually participate in local and national elections.
You don’t understand, I’m doing my part by posting “1 like = 1 bullet for the revolution” every week on my socialist Facebook groups, what about you, liberal scum???
You don’t consider canceling primaries for a state that habitual votes against party favorite to be dismantling democracy?
Not even a couple cycles after the dnc’s lawyer told a judge primary votes don’t matter and they can appoint anyone and the judge agreed?
They’re not equally bad, but at this point it’s hard to call either democratic
Which will depress turnout, even if the people trying to earn you still vote for Biden
staying home rather than going out and voting for Biden
I’m not going to stay home. I’m going to go to the polling place and leave that part empty on the ballot.
Here’s the bottom line: I cannot bring myself to officially support someone who I admit is an active supporter of genocide. Listen to yourselves. You are literally saying that I should feel bad because I won’t support someone who is actively supporting genocide. They are carpet bombing children, intentionally starving them, denying them medical care, all because of their ethnicity. He is expediting military aid to make sure they can.
I wouldn’t vote for Hitler just because I believed his opponent was worse. The reason I wouldn’t vote for Hitler is because of the genocide. I have to draw a line somewhere. If anything, I should probably have drawn it somewhere before genocide.
BTW, I’m not saying you’re a bad person if you do vote for Biden, or even that I’m somehow better for not. I get it. I just can’t bring myself to do it.
[Edit: Americans, if you’re thinking of replying to me, consider instead or additionally going to Ceasefire Now and writing to your representatives. Maybe if there’s an end to the genocide before November I’ll be willing to vote for Biden.]
You are a bad person if you don’t vote against Trump, who is the actual comparison to Hitler.
I’m voting against Trump and Biden. biden spent 50 years in power making trump possible.
So you are voting for Trump.
no, I’m probably voting for Jill Stein again, but I haven’t stopped donating to cornel west yet
So Trump supporter, got it. Please don’t fucking be registered in Wisconsin.
Be useless somewhere else, thanks. - America
neither of them are trump. I think you have problems with reading comprehension.
and Im not registered in Wisconsin but I am in a swing state that went Obama Obama Trump Biden.
This guy thinks Navalny was a Nazi. He’s just a Russian asset.
this is just ad hominem
It’s more of an argument that your opinion is utter garbage based on your shit judgement.
it’s not an argument at all. they are just attacks on my person rather than my position.
I hope you gain the knowledge to see the bigger picture before November. Allowing Trump to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows. Biden, at least, is reasonable and not bloodthirsty. Work with the system so that you can change it. Because the alternative is to burn us all down for your own hubris and lack of awareness.
Allowing Trump to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows.
Allowing Biden to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows.
Biden, at least, is reasonable and not bloodthirsty.
“Reasonable and not bloodthirsty”: expediting military aid to help the slaughter of children.
Work with the system so that you can change it.
Nothing I am doing is outside the system, and voting for Biden won’t help change the system.
I hope you gain the knowledge to see the bigger picture before November… Because the alternative is to burn us all down for your own hubris and lack of awareness.
Hubris is thinking that because other people disagree with you they must be ignorant and lack awareness. Hubris is thinking that if other people act differently from you, we will all burn down.
Just a heads up that site picked the wrong district for me. The actual house site understands my zip is split between two districts (based on county lines) but this site picked the wrong one.
so, out of curiosity, what has biden accomplished (or any one, really,) done to stop any of that?
so far, the only thing he’s successfully achieved is… increasing the DoJ’s focus on domestic terrorism. which, is something, I guess.
After three years of this shit getting worse; why should we believe Biden is able to actually stop it and protect our democracy? it took him two and half, or so, years for him to get the DoJ to assign Jack Smith to investigate trump for Jan 6, and documents, and stuff.
Under Biden we have student load forgiveness, we have a better ftc that actually investigates shit, we had an actual climate deal, and we have support for Ukraine, and have an investigation on trump. With trump we have none of that. We get total facism.
Also voting and protest/revolt are not mutually exclusive. At least under Biden we might not have to become a full on fascist state in the next year.
Under Biden we have student load forgiveness, we have a better ftc that actually investigates shit, we had an actual climate deal, and we have support for Ukraine, and have an investigation on trump. With trump we have none of that. We get total facism.
Most of the Climate deals are corporate subsidies for things they were going to do anyhow… eventually.
As good as the student debt forgiveness is… all of those loans that are being forgiven are loans that should have been forgiven ages ago. There’s zero fraud investigation on that. just a “oops. we let you get scammed for years.” (sometimes even decades.). Not exactly a brilliant dipslay of … governance.Right now we don’t even have support for ukraine. so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship that was one of his key sales pitches.
Also voting and protest/revolt are not mutually exclusive. At least under Biden we might not have to become a full on fascist state in the next year.
you do realize that prevailing rhetoric right now is “Don’t protest Biden now… let him win the election first!”, right? which is why I’m being down voted when I call Gaza Genocide.
I don’t think Biden can protect american democracy. I don’t think he has that ability.
“so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship”
whose fault is that?
If Biden can take credit for the infrastructure act getting passed, he can take credit for everything the house does. Or doesn’t do.
(Joking, mostly. But remember his campaign? A major selling point is working across the aisle to get shit done. Seems to have been a niave argument.)
So, he’s done nothing to actually protect american democracy. The argument being made by the OC is that he’s protecting American democracy. Where’s that?
your source is mostly about stuff that Biden has fuck all to do with (crime is state and local; Economics, fed and treasury;) and the stuff he does… he’s not done all that much (immigration?) or has gone the wrong way (oil)
bOtH sIdEs
Man I just want to vote for a better candidate not strategically vote so the worst one doesn’t get elected. Why tf isn’t Trump in jail yet
Trump will for sure encourage a true genocode of palestine. remember the kurds he abandoned to Syria/Putin? remember the muslim ban?
I hear you, but fucking over the Kurds after they stuck their neck out to ally with us has been an American pastime for decades.
This is the insane part to me. Everyone is just jumping on the opportunity to cheapen the word genocide, so when Trump gets a roll, I guess we will have to come up with a whole new word. Super genocide? Genocide, but not like that other one? Genocide with seven pieces of flair?
Dude, Bush abandoned the Kurds; Clinton ignored them; Bush Junior used and abandoned them again; Obama did it a third time; Then Trump did it.
Hell I wouldn’t even be surprised if the US abandoned them again. They aren’t. They told us in 2003 that our leaders would abandon them but they were thankful for the temporary help.
A true genocide? 30,000 dead and everyone at risk of starvation not enough for you? I’d rather be banned than genocided.
first off we’re talking about arabs who are extremists who ACTUALLY WANT THE GENOCIDE OF ALL JEWS. Being Arab is about wanting the extermination of jews. If Palestine were “freed,” it would just be another trash heap jihadist extreme islam theocracy. so not really gonna play the death-tally games when one side’s idea of victory starts with a death-tally of jews.
This is unsubstantiated antisemitism, and genocide-apologia. Arabs are justified in fighting the people who colonize them and expel them from their lands.
“There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” —David Ben-Gurion
“Agreement with Arabs Impossible at present… Zionism Must Go Forward” - Jabotinsky, 1923
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
And just in case you justify the genocide on them being “foreign” Arabs, Ben Gurion had this to say as quoted by Shlomo Sand:
“The fellahin are not descendants of the Arab conquerors, who captured Eretz Israel and Syria in the seventh century CE. The Arab victors did not destroy the agricultural population they found in the country. They expelled only the alien Byzantine rulers, and did not touch the local population. Nor did the Arabs go in for settlement. Even in their former habitations the Arabs did not engage in farming…their whole interest in the new countries was political, religious and material: to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes…the Jewish farmer, like any other farmer, was not easily torn from his soil…Despite the repression and suffering the rural population remained unchanged.”
arabs own ALL the equatorial lands from India to Morocco. Anyone else is a target of jihad. Colonialism is the laziest excuse. arabs simply love retrograde theocracy
Not sure if a true genocode is occurring now, or not…
Wtf you saying? A lot more happened in syria under trump than before him. Barack was wasting time allowing isis to grow. And once isis was defeated america pulled out. Probably one of the few good news that came out of syria. What did biden do? he put sanctions that were supposed to hurt assad, but instead hurt the people who can barely afford to eat.
Don’t forget getting rid of Medicare, raising taxes on people making under $90,000 a year, dismantling the IRS, and just full on fascism.
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” Yes
Maybe I’m just getting old, but I have no problem seeing the vast difference between the two choices we’re going to be given in November.
No matter how much the children in the room piss and moan, there are realistically only two choices - 3rd party candidates only exist to spoil it for whomever they’re ideologically closer to of the two “real” candidates. Furthermore, Biden has turned out better than I expected - and I’m a Bernie Sanders kinda guy!
Aaron Bushnell was a moron. He should have waited to self-immolate after the election, that way he could still vote for Biden.
Obvious /s.
Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top
Nice try, FBI
“Do you condemn Hamas?”
I wish. Heared they pay good money.
Maybe Trump should have a word with them, since he has has some issues in that department recently…
And here I am, doing this shit for free :D
I know, just joking
Fair enough.
Hard to tell with people here sometimes.
I remember signing up for army back in the day. One of the questions were:
“Are you a terrorist?”
Yes ___
No ___
Y
Don’t worry, a bunch of fucking idiots think not voting is the solution, turning what could just be 4 more years of “definitely not good” into a toss up with “holy fucking shit I didn’t know it could be this bad”.
The vapid motherfuckers doing everything based on principles without taking reality into account is how the left always seems to get so little done.
It’s crazy how much energy is already being put into blaming voters for being turned off by an undesirable politician.
Usually this happens after an election.
Biden supporting genocide WILL disengage voters regardless of how bad the other guy is. His decision to support genocide will hand Trump the presidency on a silver platter.
If someone kicks their dog, the dog responds by biting the fucker, and the fucker responds to the bite by giving the dog away to some other fucker who kicks the dog even more… are we really going to criticize the dog for biting fucker#1? How about don’t kick the god damned dog??
Trump supports the Isreali genocide and also wants to do the same thing at home with immigrants.
no amount of genocide is acceptable
Other than giving more genocide a free pass, what are your plans to reduce genocide?
I’m not giving genocide a free pass.
Voting for anyone other than Biden will in effect be like voting for Trump, who will make the Israel/Palestine crisis even more kinetic in Israel’s favor.
this is election misinformation: they can’t count my vote for trump or Biden unless that who I vote for.
Enjoy the straw man
Do you even know what that term means?
No I just use it blindly because I’m a moron who votes third party
it’s not a strawman
It is if both sides are supporting genocide. They cancel out. You have to start looking at other things to criticize Biden for.
Are you seriously arguing that criticisms of Democrats don’t count if the Republicans hold the same position? Wanna think about that one again?
why? One thing is enough if the thing is genocide. I’m just going to vote for somebody else.
And yet your vote will help trump regardless of whether you shove your head in the sand or not. Reality exists outside your head.
Biden supporting genocide WILL disengage voters regardless of how bad the other guy is. His decision to support genocide will hand Trump the presidency on a silver platter.
Trump supports the genocide more. And locally, he wants to throw migrants into camps. See the bigger picture
You legit just said “Trump supports the genocide more", and then probably felt like you had moral superiority in the argument. Do you understand how insane it is that you’re arguing over who is more genocidy?
It doesn’t really matter who you vote for, because if the US is at the point where they’re voting based on who is going to kill less people, then the country is already a fascist state and all hope of turning that around is lost. You’re all just fighting over what flavor of fascism you get.
Do you know how braindead it is to treat things as equal which are vastly, vastly different, in consequential ways that will end in large amounts of human suffering?
It matters more than ever in history who you vote for. You are the exact type of turd that inspired this post.
I’m not the sort of person that inspired this post. The type that inspired this post is the type that thinks democrats are as bad as republicans. I don’t think that goes far enough. I’m the sort who thinks the US government is a profoundly evil institution, the continuation of which is the sole cause of untold suffering elsewhere in the world. I’m hoping Trump wins, because it will destabilize the entire nation and hopefully be the push we need to lose our position as the global superpower. If Americans need to suffer for that to happen, then perhaps it will be a learning experience on what it’s been like living in Latin America and the Middle East for the past several decades while the US government toys with weaker nations for profit.
So don’t confuse me with those sorts of people. They just want democrats to lose. I want America to burn. We are not the same.
Noooooo, gus fring accelerationists are not allowed as part of my libtard political worldview! Nooooo! America can still be saved! Think of the children! Think of the people who are suffering in already pretty bad circumstances that can’t get much worse! Noooo! My middle class purview and perspective is making me think that this is all still salvageable as everyone around me dies and suffers and I can’t see it! Noooo!
You are far worse than the shitbags I lumped you in with. My bad.
“I’m not a mental sloth, I’m actually a passive terrorist”
Listen, nothing you could possibly say to me is going to offend me, because I don’t know you and I don’t care what you think. You’re just getting yourself worked up, so why don’t you do yourself a favor and just stop replying to me.
Speaking of being a “passive terrorist”, if anyone else needs help setting up encrypted anonymous comms for supporting their direct action, hit me up. I’d be more than happy to teach anyone ways to avoid government surveillance.
All of you society destroyers think responses are about you. They are about passersby who need to understand what you are.
This observation is neither prudent nor profound.
And locally, he wants to throw migrants into camps.
Biden is doing that right now…
So did Obama…
And trump does not support Israel genocide more than Biden. trump would want something out of it. Biden needs nothing in return
This is the danger of running Biden. As bad as trump is, Biden is also shitty.
We could have locked in a dem.win by running a halfway decent candidate that isn’t two decades past retirement age.
bOtH sIdEs
And trump does not support Israel genocide more than Biden. trump would want something out of it. Biden needs nothing in return
You’re delusional. Get some help and start searching for a way back to reality.
What?
Do you need a source for Biden saying he’s a Zionist and has unconditional support for Israel no matter what happens in the future?
Or did you mean you want a source for trump supporting anything that privately enriches himself or makes him feel good about himself?
Biden and trump supporters are too similar these days it’s hard to tell who I pissed off.
Do you need a source for Trump being a Hitler worshipping piece of shit who wants to kill everyone that isn’t white?
Well at least I know you’re a Biden supporter now instead of a trump supporter.
Have a nice life, hope it gets better.
If you meant that, you wouldn’t be trying to help Trump win.
It didn’t stop people from voting for Obama. It didn’t stop people from voting for Clinton. What makes you think Biden will be treated any differently?
“voters are stupid, don’t blame them for that.”
I’m going to vote so hard, that’ll teach 'em
Let’s vote against someone meh for not being left enough, there will surely be no negative consequences to voting against someone for not being left enough
“Being meh” is my new favorite definition of “enabling genocide”
Milosovich was meh.
Adolf Hitler was pretty meh
“But voting doesnt matter! Billions of dollars are spent and countless bills are passed to disenfranchise voters, but my opinion is def not bought and paid for by the very same to help enact their bullshit!”
Genocide is not meh. If we don’t turn around on this then we aren’t the US anymore. I’m not going to play shades of moral blackness. I was willing to play with grey shades because there was a possibility of moving this back to actually helping people instead of exploiting them. But now we’re exploiting the lives of poor starving people for donor money.
refusing to vote is not giving trump anything. y’all keep misrepresenting the sentiment. the vote does not matter. when you vocalize that you intend to not vote for anyone in the ruling class, whether they are blue or red that really gets everyone talking and saying that you are handing the presidency to the opponent. as if the electoral college didn’t do that when trump lost the popular vote to hillary. yes please tell me how i, one person on federated decentralized platform with no corporate sponsorship, am undermining democracy when we don’t really have one that gives us real opportunity to control the government.
You’re undermining democracy by NOT VOTING LMAO
It’s literally that simple. The electoral college isn’t a conspiracy theory, it just weights votes slightly unequally. Your vote is still counted and if more than like 55% of the country votes for someone they’re getting in. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand about this. We’re not North Korea, use your damn votes people!
democracy
Western democracy originated in ancient Greece. This political system granted democratic citizenship to free men, while excluding slaves, foreigners and women from political participation. In virtually all democratic governments throughout ancient and modern history, this was what democracy meant. An elite class of free men made all the decisions for everyone. Before Athens adopted democracy, aristocrats ruled society, so “rule by the people”, or the idea of a government controlled (in theory) by all its (free) male citizens instead of a few wealthy families seemed like a good deal. But really it was just a new iteration of Aristocracy rule rather than the revolution it’s painted as. The rich still rule society by feeding voters carefully constructed propaganda and keeping everyone poor, overworked and desperate to be granted basic needs by the state.
In democracies today, only legal citizens of a country are granted democracy. In a lot of countries, people who have been convicted of a “crime” are denied the right to vote, regardless of how long ago they served their sentence. In the US, this is used to deny voting rights to minority groups, who make up a large proportion of the prison population.
In some societies only a small minority group are allowed to participate in the democracy. In Apartheid South Africa, the minority group (European settlers) granted themselves democracy and excluded the native majority, using democracy to deprive the native population of the rights granted to European settlers. Anarchy, of course, is an absence of government; of rulers. Democracy aims for the individual to be governed, ruled, controlled by others.
You mean if you live in a battleground state. Everyone else lives in a state that would require a massive change.
Oh look we’re supporting a genocide. I wonder if that’s enough to do it?
Voting republican won’t change that, in fact it will make that and several other issues much worse. We need reform but we can’t achieve that if we don’t have a democracy.
Nobody said they’re voting Republican. This is very specifically about Gaza.
“Battleground state” means the vote could go either way. Anyways, how do we effect Gaza as American citizens again? I think it starts with a “v”…
Oh so now you’re only worried about battleground state voters staying home?
Well fun fact, in several of those states the key demographic is Arab Americans. So I again wonder what one thing Biden could do to earn their vote?
you’re right that its not a conspiracy theory, it is simply a conspiracy.
Not all idiots support Trump. Honestly, this is a good reminder. Apathy is still going strong and in lieu of truly understanding a system some folks would rather listen to an obviously broken gps and hard left straight down a boat ramp and into a lake.
This is so tiring constantly arguing with people like you. It’s always either “Trump is the worst! I’m not voting for Biden!” or some conviction that they cannot enact change where their only attempts to create change is yelling loudly about how unfair things are with absolutely zero action. I’ll give Republicans this much: As often as they disagree and argue with one another, come voting time they sure as hell put aside those differences and agree to support one person. Meanwhile the rest of us continue to argue about things like “Oh man, Biden has kept like two dozen promises and is working on keeping even more but oh geez he broke a handful. Just the worst person ever. I’m gonna abstain from voting!” and then have the gall to say they’re making the right choice.
Like…fuck. Maybe it’s time we stopped being so nice. Literal fascism is knocking and people’s lives are at stake here in the U.S.; people are dying here too. Our apathy and willingness to turn a blind eye through patience and understanding has gotten us to this position. How much more before it finally runs out.
Sorry, I’m just so damned concerned. This is a pivotal time. We can have a chance to fix things, we just need to come together for once. Fuck.
Sorry, I’m just so damned concerned. This is a pivotal time. We can have a chance to fix things, we just need to come together for once. Fuck.
Voting for biden will not fix things. It didn’t fix anything from trumps presidency or before. Trans people are still losing their rights and Biden has done fuck all. The democrats always say that they can fix things then make up excuses as to why they couldn’t when they knew they couldn’t to begin with. Biden is a zionist, an ideology that is pretty fascist. Fascism has always been an amerikan quality. This used to be an apartheid state and some would argue it still is. this isnt just about biden. this is about countless times we have been given a controlled choice. democrats don’t do shit when you vote for them. they certainly seem pretty worried now, maybe it will light a fire under their ass to do what needs to be done. Until then, I see no reason to vote either way. republicans are fucked and democrats are not an actual solution.
In the simplest terms: Biden may not be the answer. Trump and the GOP is a problem. With Biden holding another 4 years we, the people, can step up. We’ll have that chance. If Trump and the GOP gain hold we probably won’t, not without something else pushing that change.
A chance. That’s what we need. I feel people are at that point. You see it everywhere. The barely contained anger and frustration from the Left. With Trump we aren’t likely to get that chance. With Biden we have four years to stop talking and start standing.
Ive been hearing this same line my whole life. “This is the most important election! And this one too, and that one, and the next one!” Im fighting right now by refusing to vote for either. Look how effective it is at getting them to squirm. They are paying attention to people refusing to vote, not yall that they already have in the bag. We’ve had four years of biden and we’ve been fighting for him tondo what he said he would. He hasnt. So where the fuck have you been? Sounds like sitting on your ass waiting for others to start the fight. Its already rolling, shut up and get in
“So you think its an absolute, i will use this to my advantage in negotiations to change my behavior”
Ok and this prevents you from voting how?
It doesn’t. That’s not the only reason I’m not voting. I’m not voting because it concerns democrats that I am not voting for them. Maybe instead of being concerned with someone that is using their constitutionally protected right to choose not to vote, you should listen to the criticisms and take a stand. Maybe if democrats fulfilled their promises, there wouldn’t be growing discontent with them.
I’m not voting because it concerns democrats that I am not voting for them
Wouldn’t calling your representatives and notifying them of your dislike of their policies be even more effective?
constitutionally protected right to choose not to vote
If you have to defend your actions by saying “uhhh ok but it’s not illegal to do that” then your reasoning is bad and your actions are likely bad too
Maybe if democrats fulfilled their promises
Kind of hard to do when we’re only half of the government. I’ll let you know next time we have a supermajority (admittedly we could have done more last time we had one).
Wouldn’t calling your representatives and notifying them of your dislike of their policies be even more effective?
What makes you think i havent? All you get is an answering machine anyway
If you have to defend your actions by saying “uhhh ok but it’s not illegal to do that” then your reasoning is bad and your actions are likely bad too
y’all are acting like im committing a cardinal sin by not participating in complying with a genocide
Kind of hard to do when we’re only half of the government
and how many more times will they lead us on. if they know that they cant fulfill it, why say it?? they constantly say we will do this, and this and that and then we get nothing but excuses citing conditions or factors that were well in play before they got the vote. intentional false advertising
you’re undermining democracy
Democracy has forever been synonymous with class based societies. It has split entire countries into two barely-distinctive political parties (conservative and “progressive”) that are nevertheless permanently at each other’s throats. Even in its most libertarian-friendly forms, it has constantly failed to avert hierarchy, coercion and the authoritarian machinations of majority-groups.
Despite the issues IMO the way to fix democracy is not less democracy.
the problem is democracy: Western democracy originated in ancient Greece. This political system granted democratic citizenship to free men, while excluding slaves, foreigners and women from political participation. In virtually all democratic governments throughout ancient and modern history, this was what democracy meant. An elite class of free men made all the decisions for everyone. Before Athens adopted democracy, aristocrats ruled society, so “rule by the people”, or the idea of a government controlled (in theory) by all its (free) male citizens instead of a few wealthy families seemed like a good deal. But really it was just a new iteration of Aristocracy rule rather than the revolution it’s painted as. The rich still rule society by feeding voters carefully constructed propaganda and keeping everyone poor, overworked and desperate to be granted basic needs by the state.
In democracies today, only legal citizens of a country are granted democracy. In a lot of countries, people who have been convicted of a “crime” are denied the right to vote, regardless of how long ago they served their sentence. In the US, this is used to deny voting rights to minority groups, who make up a large proportion of the prison population.
In some societies only a small minority group are allowed to participate in the democracy. In Apartheid South Africa, the minority group (European settlers) granted themselves democracy and excluded the native majority, using democracy to deprive the native population of the rights granted to European settlers. Anarchy, of course, is an absence of government; of rulers. Democracy aims for the individual to be governed, ruled, controlled by others.
The rich still rule society by feeding voters carefully constructed propaganda and keeping everyone poor, overworked and desperate to be granted basic needs by the state.
Democracy requires an educated and inforned electorate. And that is what the political rhetoric and lawyers have destroyed.
Keeping everyone dependant on their shrinking wallet makes them easily led, aka Vote your pocketbook, into defunding education, libraries,etc.
The rich still can afford to pay for quality privatized versions of these things.
Democracy requires an educated and inforned electorate
Only enough to understand the propaganda that they are fed. Its amazing how little higher educated people know about neurodivergence, LGBTQ+ experiences, class consciousness, indigenous cultures and lifeways.
We live in an ultra-capitalist society operating on the ableism, classism, racism and sexism that defined ancient grecian and roman politics.
you’re right that people are voting against their interests, both dems and republicans
the vote with your wallet rhetoric sounds good when you realize that you have less dollars than a multinational corporation. so we’ve tied political and civil freedom to the ability to pay for what you think they should be? that means the rich will always win. and this vote with your wallet rhetoric is parroted by people making less than 50k/year because they think being an american libertarian is edgy
It’s crazy how you can comment something this logical and well thought out, and the next comment will be; “but if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump will be worse.”
Y
And let’s not forget the right-wing trolls that shill the propaganda that feed the leftists rhetoric.
“Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?” Yes
For anybody saying no, I would like to know what radical action we were all supposed to have taken in 2021 to the present that would have fixed America, or how revolution will be easier under a Trump presidency, or what specific plan the vast majority of leftists and progressives wants to enact
Weird how that makes it seem like the people trying to make things better are the ones responsible for making things worse. It’s almost like the whole system was set up to give us two horrible choices and make us think the lesser evil is actually good. That way we won’t try to really fix anything ourselves and just get angry at the people who do for “wasting their votes”. No hate to anyone who thinks this way just sharing another perspective.
I’d rather have Biden than Trump. But I’d rather have Dr. Cornell West or Claudia de la Cruz more than either of them by a lot. Hell I’m probably going to vote for one of them. I live in Maryland, a blue state that’ll go to Biden anyway. If anybody has a problem with that, I don’t care 🤷
