People out here trying to make the DSM sound like the ramblings of the insane because of that one time it said if you feel trans you probably have body/gender dysmorphia.
Which is literally what it is, feeling like you’re not in the right body/the right gender, but I guess a large part of society just felt it wasn’t worth keeping it classified as a mental disorder. I hate politics.
Yet it was removed from the DSM-5 due to pressure from people outside the science community insisting that gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness and that it should be reinforced through gender affirming care. That gender affirming care often coming hand in hand with body dysmorphia.
My point is I can’t figure out why this is the only mental illness that is reinforced and supported rather than treated. For instance we dont let anorexics make themselves skinny so their dysmorphia goes away, we use corrective therapy.
The only thing I can reason as to why the former is the way it is, is politics.
For someone who thinks they’re so smart you sure have a lot of strongly held, dangerously outdated views.
We don’t correct mental disorders by “forcing people to be more ‘normal’”, we treat them so that the person with the disorder can have the most fulfilling life they can.
The reason we don’t let someone with anorexia stave to death is that they would die, which is not the most fulfilling life they can have. The reason we let someone with gender dysmorphia (after assessing that transition is the best solution for them) transition is that this lets them have, what is now statistically proven to be, the most fulfilling life they can have.
Forcing a square peg (neurodivergent individual) into a round hole (neurotypical behaviour) doesn’t make anyone happy. Instead we help them round their hardest edges and find the most ‘square hole’ shaped lifestyle they have access to means everyone is as fulfilled as possible.
No you just don’t like the terminology I use which is standard for people who mistake pretention for virtues. You know what I mean when I say ‘normal’ but insist on extrapolating it so you can wiggle in your bias so it fits. Never said “force people to be more ‘normal’” so that’s some cool quotes you pulled out of your ass, curious how you got them past your head like that.
Allowing someone with a mental disorder to undergo surgery which can be potentially irreversible isn’t comparable to the self harm that often accompanies anorexics? Last I checked we don’t allow anyone with body dysmorphia to change their bodies to be closer to that dysmorphic view but maybe that’s an ‘outdated’ look on mental disorders.
When you get tired of fighting a strawman, positions I never took, feel free to reply again. I never at any point said anyone with a disorder should be forced into anything. I expressed that treatments should be sought after and not disregarded because ‘reinforcing them gives a more fulfilling life’ as opposed to what? Not having the disorder? I would rather us find a way to make us comfortable in our own bodies than give up looking because “well we can’t force people with mental disorders to be ‘normal’! They’re fine just the way they are!”
What of those with the disorder who transition and regret it? Were we in the right for pushing them to ‘give them the most fulfilling life they can have’? To now be forced to live with a body that’s forever scarred, to live with the pain they’ll never be who they were again. I’m sick of those like you who are so eager to foster a new marginalized class that they fail to see these people need fucking help. Actual assistance. They aren’t just your buddies to be given flags, symbols, and marketed as your lost, victimized pets. But I guess it’s way too late for that.
Oh yes, the people who had surgery and regretted it and are now forced to live with the side effects, please tell me more about how no other surgery but gender affirming care has risks and side effects. Ridiculous.
I was BARELY paraphrasing your story about how antisocial people should just be made to socialise and be more normal instead of letting them be antisocial. That’s HARDLY the strawman you make it out to be. I also love how you get all up in a tizzy about barely being misquoted then do the same thing to me in your post.
Your incorrect use of the word “reinforcement” in this context has been corrected by others so at this point I can see you’re simply incapable of learning and improving yourself.
As for your claim to being “sick of people… fail[ing] to see [trans] people need fucking help”, if you really cared to help trans people you’d know that every reputable long term study of mental health from gender dysphoria shows the best long term outcome is from gender affirming care. Not from the neo-conversion therapy type approaches you’re clamering for. THAT’s why gender affirming care is now MEDICINE, and not forcing them to forget about being trans and just be normal or in your words move away from their dysmorphic view. Gender affirming care doesn’t mean surgery, it means letting them live how they want, and present themselves how they feel. This would have been the natural state of society of we didn’t have such rigid Christian gender norms. Certainly everyone else presents themselves how they feel. We know of several societies past and present where gender divergence was widely accepted with no issues so this isn’t even a new concept, it’s just letting the Christian cultural hegemony die.
Thanks for confirming my statement that you losers can’t keep politics out of this and that you’re more interested in keeping your protected, victimized class of people than getting sick people actual help. So much so you’d rather enable mental disorders than seek actual treatment to make them comfortable in the bodies they have rather than change their bodies to suit the disorder.
You’re a fucking monster, no different from the Christians with their shock therapy.
First you have to define what you mean when you say “reinforcement” and then differentiate it from “treatment”. Are you “reinforcing” Autism when you avoid situations where you’re likely to encounter loud sounds and bright lights, or when you avoid large groups of people, etc.? Are you “reinforcing” ADHD when you choose to work a non-traditional schedule and job because that’s what allows you to work with the disorder? Why is presenting as something other than your assigned gender suddenly “reinforcement of a mental illness” and not “treatment”? Where do you draw the line between “reinforcing it” and “accepting your condition changes who you are and requires you to live differently from others, and utilizing effective strategies and medications that may improve quality of life and reduce suffering in the long term”?
You give eating disorders the treatment they get because, without it, the disorder will severely harm the person. You give gender dysphoria the treatment it gets because proper treatment for the specific person’s case, whether it’s transitioning via using appropriate pronouns or being more open with their non-traditional behaviours or making efforts to outwardly appear non-traditionally or going through HRT etc., is effective at reducing harm related to the dysphoria. What you call “reinforcing” eating disorders is not comparable to gender affirming care because it does not have the same effects.
I didn’t think I had to define basic words but if I have to, sure. I define reinforcement as supporting behaviors that are symptoms of the disorder. If someone who has autism becomes extremely antisocial for instance, reinforcement would be allow them to continue that behavior as well as support it by giving them blackout curtains, better locks, whatever would make that antisocial behavior stronger or more frequent. I define treatment as attempting to correct the behaviors the disorder spurs on. Using the same example, rather than pushing the person with autism to become more antisocial (even if it’s comfortable) to instead gradually move away from that by introducing them to people (or whatever would be appropriate for their current needs).
Why is presenting as something other than your assigned gender suddenly “reinforcement of a mental illness” and not “treatment”?
Because the vast majority of people do not feel the need to present as something other than their assigned gender. Most people, nearly all of them, are comfortable in their own body with the gender they are and the thought of changing that never crosses their mind. Those who don’t or can’t feel comfortable within themselves should receive treatment either through therapy or with a solution we will one day find.
The reason this frustrates me is because the attitude is now to not look for a solution, to not look for a treatment, but to instead normalize the disorder because the effect is generally harmless. Ideally, I’d like everyone to feel comfortable in their body from the day they’re born to the day they die and I think it’s worth looking for a way to do that.
People out here trying to make the DSM sound like the ramblings of the insane because of that one time it said if you feel trans you probably have body/gender dysmorphia.
Which is literally what it is, feeling like you’re not in the right body/the right gender, but I guess a large part of society just felt it wasn’t worth keeping it classified as a mental disorder. I hate politics.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about…
Gender dysphoria is still a disorder and the diagnostic criteria and treatment are different from body dysmorphia.
Yet it was removed from the DSM-5 due to pressure from people outside the science community insisting that gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness and that it should be reinforced through gender affirming care. That gender affirming care often coming hand in hand with body dysmorphia.
My point is I can’t figure out why this is the only mental illness that is reinforced and supported rather than treated. For instance we dont let anorexics make themselves skinny so their dysmorphia goes away, we use corrective therapy.
The only thing I can reason as to why the former is the way it is, is politics.
For someone who thinks they’re so smart you sure have a lot of strongly held, dangerously outdated views.
We don’t correct mental disorders by “forcing people to be more ‘normal’”, we treat them so that the person with the disorder can have the most fulfilling life they can.
The reason we don’t let someone with anorexia stave to death is that they would die, which is not the most fulfilling life they can have. The reason we let someone with gender dysmorphia (after assessing that transition is the best solution for them) transition is that this lets them have, what is now statistically proven to be, the most fulfilling life they can have.
Forcing a square peg (neurodivergent individual) into a round hole (neurotypical behaviour) doesn’t make anyone happy. Instead we help them round their hardest edges and find the most ‘square hole’ shaped lifestyle they have access to means everyone is as fulfilled as possible.
No you just don’t like the terminology I use which is standard for people who mistake pretention for virtues. You know what I mean when I say ‘normal’ but insist on extrapolating it so you can wiggle in your bias so it fits. Never said “force people to be more ‘normal’” so that’s some cool quotes you pulled out of your ass, curious how you got them past your head like that.
Allowing someone with a mental disorder to undergo surgery which can be potentially irreversible isn’t comparable to the self harm that often accompanies anorexics? Last I checked we don’t allow anyone with body dysmorphia to change their bodies to be closer to that dysmorphic view but maybe that’s an ‘outdated’ look on mental disorders.
When you get tired of fighting a strawman, positions I never took, feel free to reply again. I never at any point said anyone with a disorder should be forced into anything. I expressed that treatments should be sought after and not disregarded because ‘reinforcing them gives a more fulfilling life’ as opposed to what? Not having the disorder? I would rather us find a way to make us comfortable in our own bodies than give up looking because “well we can’t force people with mental disorders to be ‘normal’! They’re fine just the way they are!”
What of those with the disorder who transition and regret it? Were we in the right for pushing them to ‘give them the most fulfilling life they can have’? To now be forced to live with a body that’s forever scarred, to live with the pain they’ll never be who they were again. I’m sick of those like you who are so eager to foster a new marginalized class that they fail to see these people need fucking help. Actual assistance. They aren’t just your buddies to be given flags, symbols, and marketed as your lost, victimized pets. But I guess it’s way too late for that.
Oh yes, the people who had surgery and regretted it and are now forced to live with the side effects, please tell me more about how no other surgery but gender affirming care has risks and side effects. Ridiculous.
I was BARELY paraphrasing your story about how antisocial people should just be made to socialise and be more normal instead of letting them be antisocial. That’s HARDLY the strawman you make it out to be. I also love how you get all up in a tizzy about barely being misquoted then do the same thing to me in your post.
Your incorrect use of the word “reinforcement” in this context has been corrected by others so at this point I can see you’re simply incapable of learning and improving yourself.
As for your claim to being “sick of people… fail[ing] to see [trans] people need fucking help”, if you really cared to help trans people you’d know that every reputable long term study of mental health from gender dysphoria shows the best long term outcome is from gender affirming care. Not from the neo-conversion therapy type approaches you’re clamering for. THAT’s why gender affirming care is now MEDICINE, and not forcing them to forget about being trans and just be normal or in your words move away from their dysmorphic view. Gender affirming care doesn’t mean surgery, it means letting them live how they want, and present themselves how they feel. This would have been the natural state of society of we didn’t have such rigid Christian gender norms. Certainly everyone else presents themselves how they feel. We know of several societies past and present where gender divergence was widely accepted with no issues so this isn’t even a new concept, it’s just letting the Christian cultural hegemony die.
Thanks for confirming my statement that you losers can’t keep politics out of this and that you’re more interested in keeping your protected, victimized class of people than getting sick people actual help. So much so you’d rather enable mental disorders than seek actual treatment to make them comfortable in the bodies they have rather than change their bodies to suit the disorder.
You’re a fucking monster, no different from the Christians with their shock therapy.
First you have to define what you mean when you say “reinforcement” and then differentiate it from “treatment”. Are you “reinforcing” Autism when you avoid situations where you’re likely to encounter loud sounds and bright lights, or when you avoid large groups of people, etc.? Are you “reinforcing” ADHD when you choose to work a non-traditional schedule and job because that’s what allows you to work with the disorder? Why is presenting as something other than your assigned gender suddenly “reinforcement of a mental illness” and not “treatment”? Where do you draw the line between “reinforcing it” and “accepting your condition changes who you are and requires you to live differently from others, and utilizing effective strategies and medications that may improve quality of life and reduce suffering in the long term”?
You give eating disorders the treatment they get because, without it, the disorder will severely harm the person. You give gender dysphoria the treatment it gets because proper treatment for the specific person’s case, whether it’s transitioning via using appropriate pronouns or being more open with their non-traditional behaviours or making efforts to outwardly appear non-traditionally or going through HRT etc., is effective at reducing harm related to the dysphoria. What you call “reinforcing” eating disorders is not comparable to gender affirming care because it does not have the same effects.
I didn’t think I had to define basic words but if I have to, sure. I define reinforcement as supporting behaviors that are symptoms of the disorder. If someone who has autism becomes extremely antisocial for instance, reinforcement would be allow them to continue that behavior as well as support it by giving them blackout curtains, better locks, whatever would make that antisocial behavior stronger or more frequent. I define treatment as attempting to correct the behaviors the disorder spurs on. Using the same example, rather than pushing the person with autism to become more antisocial (even if it’s comfortable) to instead gradually move away from that by introducing them to people (or whatever would be appropriate for their current needs).
Because the vast majority of people do not feel the need to present as something other than their assigned gender. Most people, nearly all of them, are comfortable in their own body with the gender they are and the thought of changing that never crosses their mind. Those who don’t or can’t feel comfortable within themselves should receive treatment either through therapy or with a solution we will one day find.
The reason this frustrates me is because the attitude is now to not look for a solution, to not look for a treatment, but to instead normalize the disorder because the effect is generally harmless. Ideally, I’d like everyone to feel comfortable in their body from the day they’re born to the day they die and I think it’s worth looking for a way to do that.