I would like to flip this argument on its head. If the right wing is putting up a sufficiently fascist candidate, does that mean you will broker no criticism of the less right wing candidate? They can just keep playing that trick on you forever?
Well, I consider “liberals” and “Democrats” to be pretty clear and on the record as to what changes they would make. They have position papers and - things, if one is so inclined to wonk it up.
But if self-described “progressives” and “leftists” are saying they’re so corrupt, they’re leading us down the road to being locked in an iron coffin with spikes on the inside - well, okay, what’s the “progressive”, “left” road like, then?
Here’s why: explain how your political process can flourish. It’s not like politics is a recent invention - so-called “progressives” or “leftists” must have something in mind, what is it?
What I expect is either complete silence, or something wildly unlikely. But - open to the idea: what is it, how does it work, what are the risks?
Here’s why: explain how your political process can flourish. It’s not like politics is a recent invention - so-called “progressives” or “leftists” must have something in mind, what is it?
Here is PSL’s party platform they are campaigning on, as they try to build up a Leftist political party in the US. There are leftist plans and actions we can take.
Progressives and leftists have tons of literature out there on the policies and ideas they want implemented to improve society, just because you haven’t bother to look up any doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
As to how that gets implemented again it’s out there but going to depend on what country and topic we’re taking about if you want someone to provide something specific.
More than happy to provide some but given the post was on “leftist discourse” I’m a little unclear on what specific topic you’re unable to find the leftist position for here.
So…you are tacitly admitting that the “lesser of two evils” trick will always work on you?
explain how your political process can flourish
I don’t recall proposing a political process. I’ll engage with the strawman anyway. If I was president of this wretched hellscape, The bare minimum policies to start would be:
Electoral reform, labor reform, UBI, criminal justice reform, tax reform (wealth tax, inheritance tax, national property tax, tax on financial transactions), corporate death penalty, presumptive liability for corporate executives, bring the military and police to heel.
something wildly unlikely
Uhh, sure, it is going to be very difficult to change the power structures in the United States that are entrenched into every facet of life and constantly propagandized through the media. I guess we should just give up and spend all our time fellating the ruling class.
Increase taxes for the highest bracket. Close tax loopholes. Codify the right to abortion. End military and economic aid to Israel. Increase land value tax. Single payer healthcare. Extend welfare to all disabled people living overseas. Ban child labour. Universal basic income. Put a limit on the number of properties that can be owned by an individual or corporation. Dissolve HOA clauses. Loosen immigration. Increase education spending. Increase legal protection for unions. Place control of all businesses in the hands of the unions and nationalise those businesses lacking unions. Make internet free and connect every home to fiber. Ban new fossil fuel developments. Invest in the local solar and wind industries. Ban animal agriculture. Tighten up laws against online abuse and harassment. Create a new cybercrime investigation force completely unaffiliated with the police. Offer everyone a number of free therapist visits. Make weed and LSD legal.
Ah, right. I believe the original question in this thread was calling out the tankies who say both candidates are bad and the voting will not accomplish anything to say what the actual plan is, so not aimed at you.
Both candidates are bad. I’m still with Capable Kamala all the way. This is because I have the apparently rare gift among leftists of being able to do things I don’t like for a good reason.
The way this debate has been framed recently, everyone’s talking as though leftists only care about instant gratification and doing things that feel good. I have a bit more long term thinking than that.
To be fair, most leftists are with you on doing whatever is possible to avoid the rise of fascism, including voting for the less shitty candidate. There still exists this false narrative that all leftists are against voting for the less shitty candidate. I’m not sure if it’s because it’s simpler to pretend the group is a monolith and that these few speak for everyone, that it’s propaganda spread by conservative sources to reduce left spectrum cohesion, or because it’s a lie spread by idiots who use sensationalism to attract attention online. I think it’s probably a little of all three.
Either way, you’re not alone. I run in a few leftist circles and rarely encounter anyone who is actually not voting in protest or something equally stupid.
Thank you. Yeah, I still think the people who are behaving centrist at the voting booth are centrists. It’s infuriating that these trolls keep calling me a liberal. They’re trying to control the conversation and make their beliefs the only reality. They even briefly tricked Ada into calling me a moderate.
Yes I can see. Thank you for the practical (well, mostly) answers. I agree with a lot of them, and as it happens many are part of the “Democratic march to fascism” as our other “progressive”,”leftist” commenters would have it.
As a leftist who understands we have to work with what we have, I’d suggest you’re also under constant disparagement from “progressives” and “the left”. After all, you support our march to fascism, you see.
I would like to flip this argument on its head. If the right wing is putting up a sufficiently fascist candidate, does that mean you will broker no criticism of the less right wing candidate? They can just keep playing that trick on you forever?
Well, I consider “liberals” and “Democrats” to be pretty clear and on the record as to what changes they would make. They have position papers and - things, if one is so inclined to wonk it up.
But if self-described “progressives” and “leftists” are saying they’re so corrupt, they’re leading us down the road to being locked in an iron coffin with spikes on the inside - well, okay, what’s the “progressive”, “left” road like, then?
Here’s why: explain how your political process can flourish. It’s not like politics is a recent invention - so-called “progressives” or “leftists” must have something in mind, what is it?
What I expect is either complete silence, or something wildly unlikely. But - open to the idea: what is it, how does it work, what are the risks?
Start here
Bernie Sanders? The Democrat?
Here is PSL’s party platform they are campaigning on, as they try to build up a Leftist political party in the US. There are leftist plans and actions we can take.
Progressives and leftists have tons of literature out there on the policies and ideas they want implemented to improve society, just because you haven’t bother to look up any doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
As to how that gets implemented again it’s out there but going to depend on what country and topic we’re taking about if you want someone to provide something specific.
More than happy to provide some but given the post was on “leftist discourse” I’m a little unclear on what specific topic you’re unable to find the leftist position for here.
So…you are tacitly admitting that the “lesser of two evils” trick will always work on you?
I don’t recall proposing a political process. I’ll engage with the strawman anyway. If I was president of this wretched hellscape, The bare minimum policies to start would be:
Electoral reform, labor reform, UBI, criminal justice reform, tax reform (wealth tax, inheritance tax, national property tax, tax on financial transactions), corporate death penalty, presumptive liability for corporate executives, bring the military and police to heel.
Uhh, sure, it is going to be very difficult to change the power structures in the United States that are entrenched into every facet of life and constantly propagandized through the media. I guess we should just give up and spend all our time fellating the ruling class.
Increase taxes for the highest bracket. Close tax loopholes. Codify the right to abortion. End military and economic aid to Israel. Increase land value tax. Single payer healthcare. Extend welfare to all disabled people living overseas. Ban child labour. Universal basic income. Put a limit on the number of properties that can be owned by an individual or corporation. Dissolve HOA clauses. Loosen immigration. Increase education spending. Increase legal protection for unions. Place control of all businesses in the hands of the unions and nationalise those businesses lacking unions. Make internet free and connect every home to fiber. Ban new fossil fuel developments. Invest in the local solar and wind industries. Ban animal agriculture. Tighten up laws against online abuse and harassment. Create a new cybercrime investigation force completely unaffiliated with the police. Offer everyone a number of free therapist visits. Make weed and LSD legal.
How does not voting for Kamala Harris accomplish any of those things?
It doesn’t. I’m with Capable Kamala all the way.
Ah, right. I believe the original question in this thread was calling out the tankies who say both candidates are bad and the voting will not accomplish anything to say what the actual plan is, so not aimed at you.
Both candidates are bad. I’m still with Capable Kamala all the way. This is because I have the apparently rare gift among leftists of being able to do things I don’t like for a good reason.
The way this debate has been framed recently, everyone’s talking as though leftists only care about instant gratification and doing things that feel good. I have a bit more long term thinking than that.
To be fair, most leftists are with you on doing whatever is possible to avoid the rise of fascism, including voting for the less shitty candidate. There still exists this false narrative that all leftists are against voting for the less shitty candidate. I’m not sure if it’s because it’s simpler to pretend the group is a monolith and that these few speak for everyone, that it’s propaganda spread by conservative sources to reduce left spectrum cohesion, or because it’s a lie spread by idiots who use sensationalism to attract attention online. I think it’s probably a little of all three.
Either way, you’re not alone. I run in a few leftist circles and rarely encounter anyone who is actually not voting in protest or something equally stupid.
Thank you. Yeah, I still think the people who are behaving centrist at the voting booth are centrists. It’s infuriating that these trolls keep calling me a liberal. They’re trying to control the conversation and make their beliefs the only reality. They even briefly tricked Ada into calling me a moderate.
Yes I can see. Thank you for the practical (well, mostly) answers. I agree with a lot of them, and as it happens many are part of the “Democratic march to fascism” as our other “progressive”,”leftist” commenters would have it.
As a leftist who understands we have to work with what we have, I’d suggest you’re also under constant disparagement from “progressives” and “the left”. After all, you support our march to fascism, you see.
Come check out [email protected] for more far leftism
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