Always have to consider inflation when comparing money from different eras. $700 would be $1164 in 2024 dollars. Still more than twice. Maybe the demand driving up the price justifies the rest?
What is criminal is when all properties in an area regardless of location or view are artificially raised beyond their realistic value, forcing out many who had been living there already. Can’t say if this is an example of that or not.
Servers can pull in way more than that, like $40+/hr at semi fancy restaurants and Inns. Obviously it’s location dependant, but $21/hr isn’t crazy if you’re on the US coast.
That’s why I added that the value of that particular location could also be different than it was when it was $700. I have no idea, maybe it’s not and even more run down and the prices are out of control.
Btw, that $21/hour is still below where the minimum wage should be if it kept up with inflation all these years. Plus, generally you shouldn’t be spending more than 30%(?) of take home pay on housing, so there’s that too.
Yeah, SI wages in Europe are way lower than north america. I wanted to move when I was bartending, and then I figured out I’d be lucky to make a third of what I was here.
Yeah, though to be fair, I think you pay a lot less taxes on those $14/hr in Sweden than you would in the us (like 18% effective tax rate, including payroll), and you get health insurance, pension, and vacation.
I think the reasons people move to cities in the US might not be the same as in the EU. Arguably quality of life peaks, in the US, in the surrounding suburbs of major cities. The closer you get to downtown the more expensive and the more difficult it is to do things.
In Europe I get the impression moving to larger cities actually does improve a lot of aspects of life on an individual basis.
For example, we have considered moving to New York or Chicago but what stops us is the amount of money needed and how difficult it can be just to keep up with a regular life in a city that dense and hostile.
This could go into a deep hole that I don’t want to get into, but while I agree with you in principle, I also think that the property owner still has their own bills to pay (property taxes and such), that should also be paid. So rather than have housing as a free right, I tend to look more towards UBI or other solutions to aid the renter in keeping that home, while also keep taxation and other costs low for the landlord. AND maintaining regulation to keep housing prices down as well. It’s a complex problem and no simple answers. (which it why I wanted to state my point while not getting too far into it :) )
Housing IS a human right. That’s fine if you want to get into the details of how to ensure everyone can access that right. But the system we use does not change the fundamental human right to housing.
Always have to consider inflation when comparing money from different eras. $700 would be $1164 in 2024 dollars. Still more than twice. Maybe the demand driving up the price justifies the rest?
What is criminal is when all properties in an area regardless of location or view are artificially raised beyond their realistic value, forcing out many who had been living there already. Can’t say if this is an example of that or not.
It’s the second.
What server these days is taking home $3500/month? (i.e. $21+/hour)
Servers can pull in way more than that, like $40+/hr at semi fancy restaurants and Inns. Obviously it’s location dependant, but $21/hr isn’t crazy if you’re on the US coast.
Bay Area fast food:
(Like super fast, very hard work, but still)
That’s why I added that the value of that particular location could also be different than it was when it was $700. I have no idea, maybe it’s not and even more run down and the prices are out of control.
Btw, that $21/hour is still below where the minimum wage should be if it kept up with inflation all these years. Plus, generally you shouldn’t be spending more than 30%(?) of take home pay on housing, so there’s that too.
I did almost 3x that as a bartender two years ago in Dallas.
Tbh the idea of a server working for less than $20/hr is insane to me.
I was making minimum wage as a runner after high school here in Stockholm. Minimum wage in the restaurant industry in Sweden is currently $14/hour.
Yeah, SI wages in Europe are way lower than north america. I wanted to move when I was bartending, and then I figured out I’d be lucky to make a third of what I was here.
Yeah, though to be fair, I think you pay a lot less taxes on those $14/hr in Sweden than you would in the us (like 18% effective tax rate, including payroll), and you get health insurance, pension, and vacation.
I guess they are a single issue resident.
Quality of life and purchasing power matters a lot for deciding where to live, it’s why a lot of people have moved to cities historically.
I do think that a lot of critics of European wages don’t really know all the factors that play into that, though. It’s not all about salary.
I think the reasons people move to cities in the US might not be the same as in the EU. Arguably quality of life peaks, in the US, in the surrounding suburbs of major cities. The closer you get to downtown the more expensive and the more difficult it is to do things.
In Europe I get the impression moving to larger cities actually does improve a lot of aspects of life on an individual basis.
For example, we have considered moving to New York or Chicago but what stops us is the amount of money needed and how difficult it can be just to keep up with a regular life in a city that dense and hostile.
What’s criminal is being required to pay a landlord for access to a basic human right
This could go into a deep hole that I don’t want to get into, but while I agree with you in principle, I also think that the property owner still has their own bills to pay (property taxes and such), that should also be paid. So rather than have housing as a free right, I tend to look more towards UBI or other solutions to aid the renter in keeping that home, while also keep taxation and other costs low for the landlord. AND maintaining regulation to keep housing prices down as well. It’s a complex problem and no simple answers. (which it why I wanted to state my point while not getting too far into it :) )
Maybe the landlord could cut out the avocado toast, or get a job.
Housing IS a human right. That’s fine if you want to get into the details of how to ensure everyone can access that right. But the system we use does not change the fundamental human right to housing.