Probably better to post in the github issue rather than replying here.
I say yes!!
I have a particular set of people that actually follow me from community to community, just to downvote what I say and the articles I post. All because I posted a neutral article about the Green Party to the c/politics sub. That made them mad enough to be obsessed about me. lol
So if you are determined enough to do that, then ya shouldn’t be upset that people can see what you’re doing.
You don’t, you just pretend that you do.
Hey, wow! What a coincidence. Funny that YOU of all people, would show up at the EXACT time I am talking about people following me. Crazy coincidence, don’t ya think?
It’d be super fun to see who it is following me and downvoting me, right? I mean, not that YOU’D ever do that, right? All because I posted a Green Party article to a politics sub. You suuuurrreee wouldn’t be the type of person to do that, I bet! Right?
SatansMaggotyCumFart is one username I immediately identify because I see their comments so often. Are you sure?
Well in this thread, just now, he just posted yet another screenshot of how many posts I make. Which he has already done about me earlier today in unrelated communities, so…
He REALLY likes to keep track of how may posts I make and then takes screenshots of it. lmao
Here you are throwing baseless accusations my way again.
You have proof about those, right?
I may have proof soon. But you have nothing to worry about, right?
Why are you throwing these insane accusations around if you have no proof?
Hey, keeping posting screen shots of your interactions with me, when I haven’t mentioned your name at all, sure doesn’t make it look like you are stalking me. For sure it doesn’t. Don’t worry man, it’s all good.
You don’t look guilty at all. Relax.
Then you have nothing to worry about.
I didn’t say you did it. In fact, I said you never would do that.
I mean, you wouldn’t be the kind of person to do that, right? Not you. Surely YOU wouldn’t do that.
Right?
@UniversalMonk @SatansMaggotyCumFart I don’t know you, I’ve never seen you before, and I’ll likely never see you again, so feel free to skip reading this, but I’m absolutely not surprised that your posts get downvotes if this is indicative of your average comment. Accusatory, sarcastic, and grating are not the adjectives that I associate with positive energy. I don’t think public voting is going to solve the issue you described.
But it would make things more fun!
You’ve posted a comment or post roughly every thirteen minutes for the last ten days.
You also accuse me of crazy things then hide behind ‘I actually didn’t say it about you’ because you have no proof.
I haven’t accused you of anything. And what does the amount I post have anything to do with this thread?
Other than, well the people who follow me around, def have a lot of work cut out for them. I mean, fingers must get sore with that downvote button.
But hey man, showing up in a thread at the exact same time I am talking about someone stalking me, and then throwing up screen shots of the number of posts I make doesn’t make you look guilty at all.
Nope. No way could we be talking about you, friend.
I sort by new.
It isn’t a conspiracy.
Yeah, but then what?
So you have confirmed that you have a fan club that likes to downvote you. What would you even do with this info?
Well I’d call them out on it and ask why they feel the need to do that.
Maybe, just maybe, if they know people could see how obsessive they are, it would take the fun out of the stalking.
I mean, at the end of the day, I don’t care THAT much one way or the other. I just think it would be funny to give them a shoutout and welcome them to another round of downvoting.
I posted an article about a ninety-year-old woman being the oldest person to graduate from Illinois University. 9 downvotes within one minute of posting it. lmao
Right now they are laughing and rubbing their hands together when I post something, just so they can downvote it. Which is funny and sad. Like am I really that important?! lol
So public or not public, I don’t care, but we can vote for, I’d say yes.
But I won’t cry if Lemmy doesn’t make the votes public. And I doubt there will be many Lemmy users that want their votes public, so I don’t think it’s gonna happen.
Once you know the accounts doing it, you can block them so they can’t interact with your posts anymore.
I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works on Lemmy. For some reason “block” here is really what “mute” is everywhere else on fedi.
I’ve seen a few “There’s no record of this comment” and when I open up the thread in a private tab, it’s someone I’ve bumped heads with but don’t remember/care if I blocked them or they blocked me. I always wondered if it goes both ways, which it should, imo.
Yeah, that was what I thought to. It’s just mute. Which is nice for the quiet, but I’d be great if the block would make them unable to downvote you and your posts as well. And it’d be nice if it wouldn’t even let them reply to your posts. Because muting doesn’t stop the poison the spread, just my personal ability to not see it.
I’d be great if the block would make them unable to downvote you and your posts as well. And it’d be nice if it wouldn’t even let them reply to your posts.
I’m not entirely sure that’s going to work out the way people think it will.
Suppose I’m some jackass that gets off on harassing you: if blocks prevented me from interacting with your content, and you blocked me, I would have confirmation that I’ve successfully gotten under your skin. I can then just make another account and continue what I’m doing.
If blocks don’t notify or provide indication to the blocked party, they would either escalate their behavior (while you are blissfully unaware) and get banned by a moderator, or give up and move on to someone else.
There’s also considering how that’s going to work with moderators and admins: do they get to bypass the block and continue to comment and interact with you against your wishes? Does it hide your posts from them if they’re blocked? It’s a lot harder to design this type of blocking on a community-centric platform than it is to do for a microblogging platform like Twitter or Tumblr.
Because muting doesn’t stop the poison the spread, just my personal ability to not see it.
That’s what mods and admins are supposed to do. It’s not the users’ responsibility to moderate the behavior of others, and it’s a lot less stressful than trying to stop toxicity when you only have words in your moderator toolbox.
Fair points!
I’m not sure which two trolls decided to downvote your comment saying “fair points,” but here’s an upvote for being a good sport about listening to me explain why your preferred implementation of blocking might not be more effective than what we have now.
I’m under the impression that they can still downvote but you won’t be able to see it.
Yeah, that’s the impression I’m under. But if I’m wrong, then that would be awesome!
I wish.
Wait, does that mean that they can’t downvote the articles I post, or just that I personally wouldn’t see them?
Like is that possible now when we block someone, or can the blocked person still downvote our stuff right now?
The user above is wrong. Blocking is only one-directional and you won’t see comments and posts from them any longer, but they still see the things you posts.
Ahhh, ok. That’s what I thought, but I was kinda hoping for a different answer. Thank you!
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However, this particular user has deluded themself into believing this grandiose nonsense that they have a club of users who stalk them to downvote their stuff, when in reality we all come across them naturally because:
- Lemmy is a pretty small place.
- They’re a reasonably prolific commenter.
- Every time they show up somewhere, it’s a woe-is-me victim complex about how they’re being downvoted (immediately drawing attention) or making the absolute shittest political takes imaginable, which again draws attention and downvotes. This could definitely be survivorship bias where I only notice their username on comments that are doing these two things and not on normal ones.
I personally do not give enough of a shit about this user to waste any precious time or effort stalking them across Lemmy. (Source: I came across this post organically and would almost assuredly be one of the users Monk is talking about.)
I personally do not give enough of a shit about this user to waste any precious time or effort stalking them across Lemmy.
And I wish more people felt that way!
Got up to 49 downvotes for an article talking about a 90 year-old woman graduating college, brah. In a sub about college, with just 3 subscribers. So I deleted, and posted again. And 10 reports about it being an advertisement (which it wasn’t so it didn’t get removed). lmao
But yeah, I’m just being grandiose.
And one day after I got called a Russian Troll Farm employee after posting an article about the Green Party in the c/politics sub. With 20 DM’s telling me to go back to Russia. Yeah, I’m just being grandiose. Probably all just a coincidence!
And by the way, me talking about doesn’t mean I am crying and thinking I’m a victim.
I give zero real world fucks about my downvotes. I’ll discuss it. It’d be cool to prove it with a public downvoting system.
But I don’t really care if it happens or not.
And fuck all of you, I’m still gonna post any interesting article about third parties I see. :)
But hey, public voting names would def prove me wrong or right. So bring it on! :)
The specific college was Brigham Young University, a well-known conservative Mormon college that mandates religious education.
The persecution complex with a total lack of self reflection is truly epic.
Moreover, they note that it’s a small community with three subscribers, which could actually hold weight as evidence of brigading if we were on Reddit. But on Lemmy? Nah, you kind of just see everything.
If we’re sorting by new on /r/all, I need to scroll back several pages on RiF to even see something that was posted 30 seconds ago; the chance that more than a few users will see the same feed there is tiny.
On Lemmy, by contrast, sorting ‘All’ by new gives me posts in the last 10-ish minutes on just the first page; things just move a ton more slowly. Consequently, there’s a lot more outsiders who are liable to see and interact with your post in a small community.
Yep!
Wow I want my obsessed about me haters too. Where are you people
Wow I want my obsessed about me haters too. Where are you people
Go post an article about the Green Party into the c/politics sub. Not only will you get plenty of people following you to downvote, but you’ll get called a “russian troll farm employee” every single day. So double win!!
Which politics comm
c/politics. Great mods. But the majority of users there really really hate the Green Party. lmao
What server though
Oh, Lemmy.world
Ah thanks had it blocked
You had some point, this looks like it will be absolutely deranged experience
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Considering making votes public, not considering making mod actions inform the user they occur.
I can see where their priorities are.
Making votes something mods can see is one thing but public is whole other can of worms.
Edit: Spleling
Gathered some thoughts here
Potential positives:
- Any admin can already review voting activity, but some people don’t realize that. This change would make it less surprising
- it would make it easier for non-admin users to study voting activity and find abuse
- it would make it consistent with other platforms that we federate with, which can already see votes
Potential downsides:
-
People will report voting activity that they don’t like, even if it’s not malicious.
- Admins will need to set up rules on what activity they will act on (and also take action against people that spam bad reports).
- It would also help to have automated tools to review voting activity since it’s hard to do that manually.
-
It’s another option for abuse, similar to bringing up past comment history
Both could be dealt with but it would make moderation somewhat harder
Likely bad:
- Mods and admins can ban people for upvoting content in communities they aren’t in charge of. This might work on a small scale, but I’d caution against it because it often misses nuance:
- it’s very easy to accidentally vote on something while scrolling (unless there is a consistent pattern)
- even if the community is seen as “bad”, the post might be good (ex. it could be calling out the community)
Bad
- it lowers the barrier for other types of abuse, such as tracking vote activity for advertising, approximating when a user is asleep, etc
I could go either way, but I don’t think “other platforms have public voting” doesn’t seem all that convincing. Who cares? I don’t care who voted on what, and I doubt most others do either.
While there are workarounds, leaving it as is at least weeds out the majority of trolls who aren’t technically inclined enough to go pull up A to see how B voted on C.
I would like the option to make it public on my community. I have asked people not to downvote amateur bakers for just trying to improve their skills but some assholes don’t listen.
Hard yes from me, thank you.
Baked in visibility of votes and blocking that only works one way makes Lemmy (and anything based on ActivityPub) less functional from an end user standpoint. Wish I knew a decent, somewhat popular alternative that implemented these features
likes and votes should be anonymous and user names should only be displayed for comments.
Votes are public in the underlying protocol - mbin users and lemmy admins can see votes. They are not anonymous. This is only about whether votes should be displayed in Lemmy.
Yes I know, I said “should”.
That would require a major change in the underlying protocol, and it could enable easy vote manipulation since there is no way for admins to watch out for malicious voting patterns.
they are already talking about major changes. welcome to the conversasion
This is not the conversation about the underlying protocol, which is ActivityPub. This discussion is merely within Lemmy. Lemmy does not have its own protocol, it uses the ActivityPub protocol. ActivityPub has no support currently for private votes. Lemmy’s GitHub repository is not the place to suggest ActivityPub changes.
Your arguing about the logistics of the changes, everyone else is here to discuss the change it self.
Probably for the best if downvotes remain less easy to access, at the very least. There’s a myth that people who are suicidal will “find a way even if you take away some of the easier methods”, which is explicitly false. If you take away the easy option, you are directly reducing the harm that easy option might have caused. https://gizmodo.com/why-have-people-stopped-committing-suicide-with-gas-5959303
If the admins take away the quick and easy option for seeing who downvoted your passionate comment, the mods are directly reducing the number of people who go on rants about downvotes and targeted vitriol.
It has nothing to do with privacy; this is a public forum that by it’s very nature, requires that all activity be easily available to all the sites you federate with. There is not privacy in that.
This is about the type of community that forms around the software. Do we want to encourage, and make easily available, the list of people who disagree with you? Or do we want to to put minor barriers around that to help keep the number of people who do that low?
Maybe a model where upvotes and downvotes can per instance be federated either publicly or aggregated? So an instance admin could choose to bundle together the vote totals and push them to other instances and it would just show the total number of votes on comments and posts by people on their server rather than the individuals. And if a federated server acts up and sends bad vote totals, the instance could be blocked for it as a trade off.
I thought they were already???
Like how/why wouldn’t they be public? Even if the data isn’t readily accessible via a gui it’s gotta be somewhere so that federation works. Unless you’ve been thirsty in your main it shouldn’t be a problem?
Am I missing something?
Yes, and there’s no genuine argument otherwise.
If you want Lemmy to grow and not be completely overrun with bots posting propaganda and signal boosting extremism, showing votes is the only way forward. It’s the only mechanism by which independent parties can discover and expose things like “every post and comment by this account is upvoted by these 20 other accounts that have never posted and whose names follow the same formula”.
The privacy you’re mourning never existed in the first place and it can’t exist on any platform. For Lemmy, it’s required for federation. On sites like Reddit, you have privacy from other users, but not from the company or anyone they sell that data to.
Since true privacy isn’t an option, it would be far better to be open about that lack of privacy. This thread is already riddled with people who thought their votes were private, rather than just inconvient to look up. That’s far more dangerous and deceptive.
This needs to happen, regardless of the ill-informed tantrums it may cause. If you want to upvote pornography without it being used against you, create accounts that are strictly for pornography and properly compartmentalize your accounts.
You could make a client or browser add-on or something that just uses a separate account for all your voting.
It should actually be made more private.
