Yeah, it’s not a brand man. That’s part of what makes it great. A brand is something created to profit off of, which always ends up worse for the end user. Linux is not there to make profit. It’s whole purpose of existing is to serve the user.
From the wiki (emphasis mine): A brand is a name, term, design, symbol or any other feature that distinguishes one seller’s good or service from those of other sellers.
What are they selling? It’s free. It’s not being sold.
Just saying, if you had spent as much on a laptop as you did on a MacBook, you would get a full work days of battery.
It’s the same failure point apple fans have about Android. Yeah there are cheap androids. They suck, but also they cost$100-$200 new. What’s apples offering in that price range?
Realistically with the new apple M-series stuff this is just not the case. The battery life is absolutely nuts. Especially compared to high end Linux laptops.
The new Snapdragon laptops are getting 15h+ of battery life, which is a couple of hours less than the new Macs (macs have bigger batteries) in the same benchmarks. The next gen Ryzen AI 300 Omnibook is said to have 20h+… but why do people want so much out of their battery? I’ve only used laptops for work and I can’t remember being more than a couple of hours at a time outside a dock.
Do any of the Snapdragon laptops not suck? I haven’t used any of them, but I’m looking for:
high quality keyboard - I love my ThinkPad E495’s keyboard (which is a bit worse than my old T440), but everything seems to use really short travel keys these days (and my 2019 Macbook Pro for work absolutely sucks in the keyboard dept)
physical mouse buttons - I love my ThinkPad’s TrackPoint + middle mouse combo, it’s great for scrolling through documents
comfortable keyboard layout - I like the position of page up/down, home, end, etc on my ThinkPad, but most laptops suck with key placement
I’m excited to get a new Macbook Pro next year (our company has a 4-year replacement cycle), mostly for better CPU performance (my coworker’s M1 runs our tests in 1/4 the time vs my Intel Macbook Pro) and battery life (mine frequently dies in meetings), but there’s no way I’m buying one for myself. So I’m looking for an alternative.
I’d really like a Framework, but it doesn’t have physical mouse buttons (very strong preference) or a TrackPoint (I can budge here), and the keyboard layout looks kind of crappy. The best so far seems to be the ThinkPad T14s Gen 6, but I’m really trying to get away from ThinkPad due to their horrendous Motorola bootloader unlock policy (i.e. you agree to never resell your device, and your warranty is void), and if that’s the direction their company is going, I would prefer to avoid them, and it’s kind of expensive (starts at $1275). The rest that I’ve seen seem to have crappy keyboards and no mouse buttons.
I wouldn’t pay the premium to be a beta tester for Qualcomm for the new Snapdragons. They’ll be cheaper, have better drivers and more laptops to choose from in a couple of years.
Yeah, that’s what I’m hoping for. I can probably wait a year or two before needing a replacement, and it would be extra cool if Framework releases one with ARM.
What terminals don’t have power outlets easily available? I think even many planes do, although I haven’t paid attention to that because I’ve never needed it.
I’ve been in plenty of terminals w/o power outlets, or where the outlets are all taken. People seem to flock to them like crazy, and not having to deal with that is nice.
the battery life of machines with hot swapable batteries is arguably better considering you can hot swap them forever. And with more modern hardware, they’re a lot more power efficient so you could get a ton of work done on a handful of batts
well i mean aside from the part where the intel laptops were engineered like shit and didn’t work because they couldn’t cool themselves, yeah. And the part where they tried to make the butterfly keyboard, and the part where the accidentally made the display cable too short, and still haven’t put out a repair tab for that one yet.
And the part where they accidentally put the gnd next to 51v causing it to immediately short and kill the entire device if even so much as a little bit of water showed up. The part where they only put USB C on their laptops and never put USB C on their phones, even though the whole point of using USB C was that it’s “one cable”
or the part where the release the ipad pro as a laptop replacement and it’s still not a laptop replacement because they refuse to make the OS anything more usable than a tablet, or the part where the new macbooks are shipped with 8GB of ram at all, for some reason. I don’t what the point of that is. Just ship with 16 minimum.
And the part where the also fucked up hardware crypto so bad they had to disable it permanently killing their crypto speeds, but hey, they’re new to the game, they havent been making their own hardware since… Oh about 2010. Or like that one iphone 6 release they did, where it was a little bendy.
but yeah no it seems like they finally figured out how to make a laptop. I can certainly give them that.
Yeah, it sucks. To be fair, I hated their keyboards before and after the butterfly keyboard nonsense, I much prefer the deeper keyboard travel of my Thinkpad.
accidentally made the display cable too short
Eh, I think that’s overblown. I have a 2019 Intel Mac for work, and nobody in my office has had that problem, and we’ve all had our laptops for 3-4 years. Our company replacement cycle is 4 years, and it’s looking like I’m not going to have that problem at all.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying that I haven’t experienced it in our work setting. I certainly wouldn’t buy one for my personal computer because I expect more than 4 years of life from it (I’m typing this on my E495 from 5 years ago, and I plan to keep it for a couple more years).
USB C on their phones
What does that have to do with their laptops? Same with the iPad.
My coworkers have M-series laptops for work, and they’re way nicer than my Intel mac in terms of performance (>4x faster running our test suite and building Docker containers), battery life, and other features (they have the magnetic power port again). I’d never buy one because it doesn’t run Linux properly and I hate the Apple ecosystem, but the M-series chips are quite nice.
Yeah, it sucks. To be fair, I hated their keyboards before and after the butterfly keyboard nonsense, I much prefer the deeper keyboard travel of my Thinkpad.
yeah, the thinkpad keyboards are some of the best in the industry.
Eh, I think that’s overblown. I have a 2019 Intel Mac for work, and nobody in my office has had that problem, and we’ve all had our laptops for 3-4 years. Our company replacement cycle is 4 years, and it’s looking like I’m not going to have that problem at all.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying that I haven’t experienced it in our work setting. I certainly wouldn’t buy one for my personal computer because I expect more than 4 years of life from it (I’m typing this on my E495 from 5 years ago, and I plan to keep it for a couple more years).
apple themselves even made the cable longer in future revisions. They just never updated it in the older released models. Which they really should’ve done.
What does that have to do with their laptops? Same with the iPad.
apples entire gimmick is the “ecosystem” and they spent MANY years trying to make the ecosystem blatantly worse for no reason other than “why change lightning” even though the dongle life had already been started by that point, why not just go full into USB C at that point and make the ecosystem complete? Apple fans are even questioning this decision.
My coworkers have M-series laptops for work, and they’re way nicer than my Intel mac in terms of performance (>4x faster running our test suite and building Docker containers), battery life, and other features (they have the magnetic power port again). I’d never buy one because it doesn’t run Linux properly and I hate the Apple ecosystem, but the M-series chips are quite nice.
i’d say the primary reason this is true is that apple does selective engineering, going from the last intel mac to the first m series mac this is super apparent, it had a real chassis that was properly thick, and a real selection of IO ports, i believe this has waned with the newer models, which is stupid IMO. But they did make a good laptop that one time at least. It’s not even like apple was super restricted by cooling in their intel macs they literally just didn’t try. In one of their recent air models they dont even have an active heatsink cooling the CPU. It’s a passive heatsink that gets passive airflow from a fan somewhere else in the machine.
The chips are nice, but only in the selective vision that they function under. If they were open and more modular, i would be a lot more supportive of it, but apple being apple ruins just about everything they touch unfortunately.
I have done a full 8 hours of work on my Dell Latitude 5440 before on battery. I put it in bat saver and it lasted me the whole work day.
But I re cognize something: why would I need to do that?
I sat a desk or my couch all day both of which had a convenient outlet. There was no point in doing that all on bat. Yeah it’s impressive to have a crazy long battery life and is why I wanta MacBook for coffee shop coding days, but again, there’s almost guaranteed to be convenient outlets and I own a 145Watt battery bank if needed. Thus my $150 ThinkPad E495 has been reaching 16+ hours of use without needing a wall wart.
Maybe your use case is different but mine where I’m certainly going to be stationary enough to use a plug or a battery bank means I can’t justify the apple tax. Plenty of people have done this calculation hence why Apple still doesn’t have an appreciable enterprise market share let alone a competitive one.
Uh, work? Sometimes I’m in meetings all day in different rooms at my company, and I really don’t like bringing my charger around. So that’s 8 hours, and I’ll be running a lot of stuff in the background, which absolutely drains my battery life.
I also like using my laptop at airports when traveling, and finding a charger can be a royal pain. I’ve had multiple occasions when my laptop battery died and I just couldn’t use it, and I get something like 3 hours battery life (which is pretty decent for a laptop).
I also WFH 3x/week, so it’s not uncommon for me to work from the couch or walk around the house when on boring calls all day.
I’m plugged in most of the time most days, but exceptions do happen, and it’s nice to not have to worry about battery life. I hope this anecdote helps.
I mean, I can and do carry my charger, I just prefer not to. I have needed to leave a meeting to go fetch a charger, as have my coworkers, which is disruptive. Having >8 hours battery life would mean I would never need to think about the battery any more, I could just use the laptop all day and plug it in at night, just like my phone.
Ah yes, unethical company, as opposed to an Ethical company like who? Asus who was just caught overcharging their customers on RMAs?
HP? The most evil printer manufacturer on the planet?
Keep in mind my first choice, Framework did not sell in my country at the time, still might not.
Not having to have battery anxiety is not a sales pitch, it’s just good stuff, if you’d have a software developer job, you could maybe understand
And you also just betrayed this whole anti-apple shebang thats going on here, it’s about the money innit? If you can’t afford it, you need to come up with nonsensical reasons why apple bad, don’t worry, I used to do that too.
Lmao yessir Ima so poora can’t afford a machine that forces obsolescence every few years, made in a sweatshop, not allowed to repair, made a deal with ARM to kill off competition, walled garden designed, lobbies the governments, takes a picture of you every few seconds, preferred by the CCP machine.
Oh gosh if only I could afford a new machine every 3 years from Apple but it costs approximately $70 per month oh no so expensive ohmagod how can we mere peasants?
Listen dude you’re paying more to save a negligible amount on power, have a battery that lasts slightly longer than the competitors and much longer than anybody will ever need it to, and suffer much worse customer service. And you think its a status symbol or sign of wealth? You got scammed.
Every 3 years? regular laptops maybe last that long, but I am pretty sure macs last a fair bit longer, I was still working on a 2015 model in 2020 without any issue, only reason I stopped is I had to give it back.
I will be using this one for at least 5 years if not longer.
have a battery that lasts slightly longer
slightly doing a bit of heavy fucking lifting there, lmao. try 2x,3x,easily 5x in some cases.
And you think its a status symbol or sign of wealth?
I don’t, not sure where you got that from, I just think most people hating on it do so because they can’t afford it, which seems to be case a lot.
Frequent freezes and crashes on battery power, mainly returning from sleep. It improved after I uninstalled all dell apps and made various tweaks, but I still get them sometimes. This is a common issue, and well it really sucks. There have been a lot of bios and other driver updates coming out, I hope it eventually gets sorted. I don’t have the time to wipe my OS and do constant maintenance. I have a feeling a lot of this is Windows 11 related with all these sleep changes.
Sometimes battery drains quickly to zero (e.g. from 60% to 0 overnight with lid closed). Again, related to the new windows sleep behavior. I’ve disabled a lot of windows background sleep services which did improve it, but it has happened since still. Again, pretty terrible if you have to worry if your laptop will have battery if you close it with 60%. Forces you to keep adapter handy.
Battery life is not good. I got the regular non-oled, non-4k screen and very glad I did. The screen looks very good, and battery life is unacceptable with the higher res screens for a laptop. Dell really needs a QHD option.
There is also the drastic difference in performance on battery vs off, but that’s par for the course for windows machines.
tell me more about that 19 hours battery life, lmao.
Cheerleading for brands is cringe
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Idk if this is a joke but Linux is not a brand.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mark_Institute
Technically, yes it is. It’s a registered trademark at the very least.
Yeah, it’s not a brand man. That’s part of what makes it great. A brand is something created to profit off of, which always ends up worse for the end user. Linux is not there to make profit. It’s whole purpose of existing is to serve the user.
Espousing this cooler-than-thou nonsense about a non-brand is at least as cringe as jocking a brand
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mark_Institute
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand
It fits the definition of a brand.
From the wiki (emphasis mine): A brand is a name, term, design, symbol or any other feature that distinguishes one seller’s good or service from those of other sellers.
What are they selling? It’s free. It’s not being sold.
They accept donations, do they not?
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linux isn’t a brand though, it’s a lifestyle and a religion if you go far enough.
This is honestly one of the most insulting things I’ve ever heard said about Linux users, and it’s so accurate.
its not insulting, just true. The insulting part is assuming that this is a bad thing :)
Stating facts is cheerleading?
Just saying, if you had spent as much on a laptop as you did on a MacBook, you would get a full work days of battery.
It’s the same failure point apple fans have about Android. Yeah there are cheap androids. They suck, but also they cost$100-$200 new. What’s apples offering in that price range?
Realistically with the new apple M-series stuff this is just not the case. The battery life is absolutely nuts. Especially compared to high end Linux laptops.
Source: forced to use apple for work
The new Snapdragon laptops are getting 15h+ of battery life, which is a couple of hours less than the new Macs (macs have bigger batteries) in the same benchmarks. The next gen Ryzen AI 300 Omnibook is said to have 20h+… but why do people want so much out of their battery? I’ve only used laptops for work and I can’t remember being more than a couple of hours at a time outside a dock.
Do any of the Snapdragon laptops not suck? I haven’t used any of them, but I’m looking for:
I’m excited to get a new Macbook Pro next year (our company has a 4-year replacement cycle), mostly for better CPU performance (my coworker’s M1 runs our tests in 1/4 the time vs my Intel Macbook Pro) and battery life (mine frequently dies in meetings), but there’s no way I’m buying one for myself. So I’m looking for an alternative.
I’d really like a Framework, but it doesn’t have physical mouse buttons (very strong preference) or a TrackPoint (I can budge here), and the keyboard layout looks kind of crappy. The best so far seems to be the ThinkPad T14s Gen 6, but I’m really trying to get away from ThinkPad due to their horrendous Motorola bootloader unlock policy (i.e. you agree to never resell your device, and your warranty is void), and if that’s the direction their company is going, I would prefer to avoid them, and it’s kind of expensive (starts at $1275). The rest that I’ve seen seem to have crappy keyboards and no mouse buttons.
I wouldn’t pay the premium to be a beta tester for Qualcomm for the new Snapdragons. They’ll be cheaper, have better drivers and more laptops to choose from in a couple of years.
Yeah, that’s what I’m hoping for. I can probably wait a year or two before needing a replacement, and it would be extra cool if Framework releases one with ARM.
Ultra long haul flight, plus time spent at the terminal?
What terminals don’t have power outlets easily available? I think even many planes do, although I haven’t paid attention to that because I’ve never needed it.
I’ve been in plenty of terminals w/o power outlets, or where the outlets are all taken. People seem to flock to them like crazy, and not having to deal with that is nice.
You’re probably right, that’s just the only use case for twenty hours of battery life I could think of.
the battery life of machines with hot swapable batteries is arguably better considering you can hot swap them forever. And with more modern hardware, they’re a lot more power efficient so you could get a ton of work done on a handful of batts
source: i understand how hardware works.
Yeah, but you have to carry batteries around.
I’m not a fan of Apple either, but you have to admit they’ve got the ultra portable laptop figured out.
well i mean aside from the part where the intel laptops were engineered like shit and didn’t work because they couldn’t cool themselves, yeah. And the part where they tried to make the butterfly keyboard, and the part where the accidentally made the display cable too short, and still haven’t put out a repair tab for that one yet.
And the part where they accidentally put the gnd next to 51v causing it to immediately short and kill the entire device if even so much as a little bit of water showed up. The part where they only put USB C on their laptops and never put USB C on their phones, even though the whole point of using USB C was that it’s “one cable”
or the part where the release the ipad pro as a laptop replacement and it’s still not a laptop replacement because they refuse to make the OS anything more usable than a tablet, or the part where the new macbooks are shipped with 8GB of ram at all, for some reason. I don’t what the point of that is. Just ship with 16 minimum.
And the part where the also fucked up hardware crypto so bad they had to disable it permanently killing their crypto speeds, but hey, they’re new to the game, they havent been making their own hardware since… Oh about 2010. Or like that one iphone 6 release they did, where it was a little bendy.
but yeah no it seems like they finally figured out how to make a laptop. I can certainly give them that.
Yeah, it sucks. To be fair, I hated their keyboards before and after the butterfly keyboard nonsense, I much prefer the deeper keyboard travel of my Thinkpad.
Eh, I think that’s overblown. I have a 2019 Intel Mac for work, and nobody in my office has had that problem, and we’ve all had our laptops for 3-4 years. Our company replacement cycle is 4 years, and it’s looking like I’m not going to have that problem at all.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying that I haven’t experienced it in our work setting. I certainly wouldn’t buy one for my personal computer because I expect more than 4 years of life from it (I’m typing this on my E495 from 5 years ago, and I plan to keep it for a couple more years).
What does that have to do with their laptops? Same with the iPad.
My coworkers have M-series laptops for work, and they’re way nicer than my Intel mac in terms of performance (>4x faster running our test suite and building Docker containers), battery life, and other features (they have the magnetic power port again). I’d never buy one because it doesn’t run Linux properly and I hate the Apple ecosystem, but the M-series chips are quite nice.
yeah, the thinkpad keyboards are some of the best in the industry.
apple themselves even made the cable longer in future revisions. They just never updated it in the older released models. Which they really should’ve done.
apples entire gimmick is the “ecosystem” and they spent MANY years trying to make the ecosystem blatantly worse for no reason other than “why change lightning” even though the dongle life had already been started by that point, why not just go full into USB C at that point and make the ecosystem complete? Apple fans are even questioning this decision.
i’d say the primary reason this is true is that apple does selective engineering, going from the last intel mac to the first m series mac this is super apparent, it had a real chassis that was properly thick, and a real selection of IO ports, i believe this has waned with the newer models, which is stupid IMO. But they did make a good laptop that one time at least. It’s not even like apple was super restricted by cooling in their intel macs they literally just didn’t try. In one of their recent air models they dont even have an active heatsink cooling the CPU. It’s a passive heatsink that gets passive airflow from a fan somewhere else in the machine.
The chips are nice, but only in the selective vision that they function under. If they were open and more modular, i would be a lot more supportive of it, but apple being apple ruins just about everything they touch unfortunately.
It’s insane. I really want one for that reason, but ThinkPad with a ugreen 145 Watt battery bank gives me 16 hours of use. That’s all waking hours.
It’s hard to justify spending 3x as much on a single laptop just for that kind of battery life.
It’s pretty easy to justify when work is footing the bill.
Lol, nope, you are deluding yourself.
Look at its main competitor the dell xps,
https://www.reddit.com/r/DellXPS/comments/12kk5to/xps_15_9520_6_month_review_issues/
I have done a full 8 hours of work on my Dell Latitude 5440 before on battery. I put it in bat saver and it lasted me the whole work day.
But I re cognize something: why would I need to do that?
I sat a desk or my couch all day both of which had a convenient outlet. There was no point in doing that all on bat. Yeah it’s impressive to have a crazy long battery life and is why I wanta MacBook for coffee shop coding days, but again, there’s almost guaranteed to be convenient outlets and I own a 145Watt battery bank if needed. Thus my $150 ThinkPad E495 has been reaching 16+ hours of use without needing a wall wart.
Maybe your use case is different but mine where I’m certainly going to be stationary enough to use a plug or a battery bank means I can’t justify the apple tax. Plenty of people have done this calculation hence why Apple still doesn’t have an appreciable enterprise market share let alone a competitive one.
I’m actually pretty happy with my ~$200 Motorola G32.
Facts about why you should pay more to an unethical company for a use case that doesn’t exist smells like a sales pitch to me.
Where are you going to work on your computer for 16 hours straight without access to a wall outlet?
Uh, work? Sometimes I’m in meetings all day in different rooms at my company, and I really don’t like bringing my charger around. So that’s 8 hours, and I’ll be running a lot of stuff in the background, which absolutely drains my battery life.
I also like using my laptop at airports when traveling, and finding a charger can be a royal pain. I’ve had multiple occasions when my laptop battery died and I just couldn’t use it, and I get something like 3 hours battery life (which is pretty decent for a laptop).
I also WFH 3x/week, so it’s not uncommon for me to work from the couch or walk around the house when on boring calls all day.
I’m plugged in most of the time most days, but exceptions do happen, and it’s nice to not have to worry about battery life. I hope this anecdote helps.
Oh! Oh ho no, boohoo! Mr. Double-Shift-Back-to-Back isn’t able to carry a charger to use at the 176 outlets in his building.
Sounds like you don’t need a good PC, you need a union.
I mean, I can and do carry my charger, I just prefer not to. I have needed to leave a meeting to go fetch a charger, as have my coworkers, which is disruptive. Having >8 hours battery life would mean I would never need to think about the battery any more, I could just use the laptop all day and plug it in at night, just like my phone.
Ah yes, unethical company, as opposed to an Ethical company like who? Asus who was just caught overcharging their customers on RMAs?
HP? The most evil printer manufacturer on the planet?
Keep in mind my first choice, Framework did not sell in my country at the time, still might not.
Not having to have battery anxiety is not a sales pitch, it’s just good stuff, if you’d have a software developer job, you could maybe understand
And you also just betrayed this whole anti-apple shebang thats going on here, it’s about the money innit? If you can’t afford it, you need to come up with nonsensical reasons why apple bad, don’t worry, I used to do that too.
Lmao yessir Ima so poora can’t afford a machine that forces obsolescence every few years, made in a sweatshop, not allowed to repair, made a deal with ARM to kill off competition, walled garden designed, lobbies the governments, takes a picture of you every few seconds, preferred by the CCP machine.
Oh gosh if only I could afford a new machine every 3 years from Apple but it costs approximately $70 per month oh no so expensive ohmagod how can we mere peasants?
Listen dude you’re paying more to save a negligible amount on power, have a battery that lasts slightly longer than the competitors and much longer than anybody will ever need it to, and suffer much worse customer service. And you think its a status symbol or sign of wealth? You got scammed.
Every 3 years? regular laptops maybe last that long, but I am pretty sure macs last a fair bit longer, I was still working on a 2015 model in 2020 without any issue, only reason I stopped is I had to give it back.
I will be using this one for at least 5 years if not longer.
slightly doing a bit of heavy fucking lifting there, lmao. try 2x,3x,easily 5x in some cases.
I don’t, not sure where you got that from, I just think most people hating on it do so because they can’t afford it, which seems to be case a lot.
Whatever you need to tell yourself, lol.
TIL that 18 hours is 2x, 3x, or even 5x the 19 hours you get from a 2024 Dell.
if you think Macbook is a scam, not sure how you can say dell is good lmao: https://www.reddit.com/r/DellXPS/comments/12kk5to/xps_15_9520_6_month_review_issues/
tell me more about that 19 hours battery life, lmao.
I didn’t say Dell was good, I said your claim was bullshit.
You shouldnt be using sleep overnight to begin with, you should use Hibernate. Sleep leaves the computer on unattended. Skill issue on that one.