Are computer labs still a thing in schools?
I’m sure this varies a lot from district to district, but the districts that I have teacher friends in, they’ve been using Chromebooks almost exclusively for the better part of a decade now
At my kid’s elementary school, they just have a charging rack full of cheap Chromebooks and the kids check one out in the morning and put it back in the afternoon. The middle schoolers get to take them home.
European Gen Z here. My schools always had a computer lab and it was always “real” PCs, never in my life i actually saw a Chromebook.
Here they are - in more well-funded schools at least. I keep seeing the posts about children being allowed laptops even at home, but here it would be unthinkable, because kids might break them or parents might steal them.
The tech-savvy reputation comes from the “digital native” narrative i.e. because they grew up with computers they must know computers, which is a silly fallacy because how one interacts with technology makes all the difference. It’s the same reason why everyone who grew up with electricity isn’t necessarily an electrician.
But then came smartphones, and instead they grew up with that…
The tech savvy reputation comes from millenials. We ARE tech savvy.
As an older Gen Z, yeah you guys probably have a better grasp on modern tech. Weirdly enough I actually have found that a weirdly high amount of folks my age know old analogue tech better, like vacuum tubes and old cars.
Older gen z here too, born in ‘99, and while I haven’t noticed the analogue thing, I’ve 100% noticed tech illiteracy in general.
Like, I’m talking about having a downloads folder full of junk because they don’t know that that’s where downloads end up. Installers left untouched after programs are installed because they’re worried that deleting the installer will delete the installed program.
Imo being raised with closed ecosystems like iPhones really stunted tech literacy for a lot of people. I grew up jailbreaking my phones and used my parent’s windows pc, so I kind of escaped it.
Like, I’m talking about having a downloads folder full of junk because they don’t know that that’s where downloads end up.
Funny enough, at work I’ll often re-download a file if I need it because it’s faster to go to my bookmark, load the page, download the file, and then click on it in my browser’s recent downloads. Windows search is sooooooo absurdly slow.
Yeah im also '99, and the weird analogue thing is probably regional. Yeah I agree that the tech illiteracy comes down largely to closed systems like Iphone, the most tech literate folks I know that are our age were largely on the poorer side of working class. Which makes sense if you are using hand me down tech ya probably will be doing a bit of debugging.
Only the early ones. By definition millenials are birth years 1981 to 1996, so the last ones were 11 when the first iPhone released.
I think every generation has their percentage of nerds and that just was a little higher in late Gen X and early millenials because computers were so new and you had to tinker to get anything working.
In the days of Apple II and similar machines a person who operated a computer knew it, because computers were simpler and because there was no other way and because you’d generally buy a cheaper toy if you didn’t want to learn it.
Also techno-optimism of the 70s viewed the future as something where computers make the average person more powerful in general - through knowing how to use a computer in general, that is, knowing how to write programs (or at least “create” something, like in HyperCard).
That was the narrative consistent with the rest of technology and society of that time, where any complex device would come with schematics and maintenance instructions.
Then something happened - most humans couldn’t keep up with the growing complexity. Something like that happened with me when I went to uni with undiagnosed AuDHD. There was a general path in the future before me - going there and learning there - but I didn’t know how I’m going to do that, and I just tried to persuade myself that I must, it should happen somehow if I do same things others do with more effort. Despite pretense and self-persuasion, I failed then.
It’s similar to our reality. The majority stopped understanding what happens around them, but kept pretending and persuading itself that it’s just them, that the new generation is fine with it all, that they don’t need those things they fail to understand, etc. Like when in class you don’t understand something, but pretend to. All the older generation does that. The younger generation does another thing - they try to ignore parts of the world they don’t understand, like hiding their heads in the sand. Or like a bullied kid just tries not to think about bullies. Or like a person living in a traditionally oppressive state just avoids talking about politics and society.
That narrative has outlived its reality not only with computers.
People are eager to believe in magic. Do you need to know how to cook if you have dinner and breakfast trees (thank you, LF Baum)? So they think we have such trees. It’s an illusion, of course. Very convenient, isn’t it, to make so many industries inaccessible to amateurs.
It’s very simple. There’s such a thing as “too complex”. The tower of Babel is one fitting metaphor.
You don’t need this complexity in an AK rifle. Just like that, you don’t need it in an analog TV. And in a digital TV you need much less complexity too. We don’t have it in our boots - generally. We don’t have it in our shirts. Why would we have it in things with main functionality closer to them in complexity than to SW combat droids?
I think Stanislaw Lem called this a “combinatoric explosion” when predicting it in one of his essays.
Being a tool user doesn’t make one a tool maker, though having grown up in the days you had to assemble and maintain your own tools does naturally facilitate growing into the latter from the former.
Right? I grew up with pen and paper, but I’m better with keyboards.
The article is kind of all over the place mixing high-school graduates and fourth-graders? I can see how you’re sluggish at typing in fourth grade… The numbers for a 17 year old would be interesting… But yeah, 13 words per minute isn’t impressive. And most young people I know use phones and tablets, not computers. So naturally a good amount of them isn’t good around these things.
13 words per minute isn’t impressive
Worse than that, it’s abysmal. That would’ve been a failing grade back when I had a few months of mandatory typing classes back in 6th grade. 40 WPM was an A, and arguably that was overly generous due to factors like 1) most students weren’t nearly as exposed to the keyboard in their daily lives as they are today, 2) the testmakers probably didn’t fully grasp how important the Internet would become, 3) the test intentionally obscured the keyboard so you had to go by feel, and 4) because of (2), the class was very short despite taking you from knowing no typing to using all the English-language keys. (I just barely passed it IIRC in the 45-ish WPM range.)
On a whim, I decided to pull up a typing test – something I haven’t done in probably 5 years – and tried to see how I could do by simulating the speed of hunt-and-peck. I really tried to make it excruciatingly slow, and it still came out to just under 20 WPM. Next, I tried to see what I could do if I only had my left hand, and it was 35 WPM with 97% accuracy. If you chopped off one of my hands, I could still type 2.7x faster than the average kid in that school’s fourth grade could – bearing in mind that that’s the average, meaning as long as the data is roughly normal, about half of the students fall below even that.
That’s completely insane in a world where this iPad generation almost assuredly has tons of exposure to the QWERTY keyboard layout. It’s just inexcusable, it’s absolutely not the kids’ fault as them doubling their average typing speed after actually being taught to type shows that, and it totally tracks that it’s in Oklahoma.
back when i was still a teenager, ww did battle ourselfes who typed faster even without a keyboard lol. We just typed on a table or something just based on our finger memory of where which key is normally on a keyboard. This days i often type on my smartphone, but you can’t rly type a lot or fast on phones so i still prefer normal computer typing for most things. But people who just chat and don’t code or similar…yeah, they probably are mostly only using their phone. my sister as an example hasn’t used her laptop for nore than 4 years, probably more… and just does everything on her phone.
Swype typing can get pretty fast tbh. But that greatly depends upon the software.
Despite the hate it got, Windows Phone’s default keyboard had a far superior swype experience as compared to Android and iOS. Probably because they didn’t try to inculcate all user words into their dictionary and used the sentence structure as a reference to rank the predicted words.Had this one been OSS, it would have been a great service. But now it has been scrapped along with the rest of Windows Phone. One of the reasons why I hate to think of what would happen to any high effort thing I make in a company.
Microsoft actually ported their keyboard to android, called “Microsoft SwiftKey” or similar. It’s a great keyboard, but apparently now has copilot ಠ_ಠ
Technology has moved from nitch nerdy thing to general public usage and as it did so it became usable without knowing what’s going on. Gen Z doesn’t know shit about technology, they just know how to use it.
When I was a kid, if you wanted to get a computer working you had to screw with the RAM settings or build the computer yourself from components. If you didn’t know how to do this you talked with someone who did. I’ve forced my kids to learn at least some of this, but the idea that they’re more tech savvy is ridiculous. They’re users of tech, but it’s become too complicated (and more user friendly), so they don’t know what’s happening behind their screen.
I blame the attempt to make devices user-friendly. Convenience kills skill.
I taught a bunch of Gen Zers back when they were in high school. None of them knew how to type well, and it was a rarity that any of them knew how to type at all. I was supposed to teach them things like Microsoft Office, but we had to start with typing and basic PC usage before we could move on to something as complicated as MS Word.
This is what happens when people don’t use computers and instead just use cell phones.
And Chromebooks. All the schools pretty much use Chromebooks, at least in my region
It’s pretty messed up that schools enforce those things onto kids. Chromebooks, while cheap, invade the hell out of your privacy and are extremely restrictive. We should be teaching kids GNU/Linux, not ChromeOS… I honestly feel sorry for the future of free software. Students aren’t taught ethics, freedom, or privacy at ALL. I was in school, (graduated two years ago), and it seemed that every teacher adapted the “you don’t have privacy” motto. Absolutely terrible. Buy the kids a Dell Latitude E6400 and put Libreboot/Trisquel with KDE on it. Let them live and help each other out with issues. It would be super heart warming to see schools adapt something like this instead.
(I understand the convenience issues, but we should start adapting, its crazy that Gen Z barely know anything about computers)
You sound exactly like my friend. But he would probably say stick to thinkpads
I had to teach some zoomers how to send an email, especially about using bcc, pretty funny I have to say
How would you learn keyboard typing, if one always types on the phone?! (I am not even Z and have to look on the keyboard)
Tech has evolved to intentionally give less and less choice to the user. Tech skills have declined on average as a result.
My sister is gen x and I’m a millennial, she’s asks me the most batshit insane questions like, how do I turn off my iPhone? What? You’ve had it 4 years!
X, especially older ones, are only tech savy if they were nerds. After that technology became a more everyday thing so maybe millenial has the magic spot where it was common but not dumbed down. I dunno though.
To be fair, they changed it in the last couple of years. It used to be that you held the power button to power it off. Now you have to hold the power button AND a volume button for some reason.
It has also changed on some Android phones. The default method of powering off the device is now through the notification shade and the power button has been turned into an assistant button. You need to go into the settings of the device and change it back.
I mean, as a millennial, I mostly taught myself to type. I’m fast enough, but have bad technique and could be faster. I was only ever actually trained to type in grade school, and barely. Once in a while in computer class we would play an educational typing game.
My mom is much better at typing than I am, because she was trained to type in college. That’s not really a thing anymore.
I had typing tutor software on the family PC. It made the mistake of trying to teach typing by starting with only home row keys, then expanding outward from there. So for a very long time, you would type things like adj daf jal ls; dal fka and so forth. It was a very long time until you really started to get it.
And then MSN chat rooms and messenger happened to me, and suddenly touch typing was the main way I had to hit on chicks. I knew what the home row was, so I knew what touch typing looked like, so I started actually doing it, but typing things I wanted to type. I’m now the third fastest typist I know. On a good keyboard with a passage I’m familiar with I can key 106WPM, right now typing conversationally out of my brain I’m probably hitting about 65 or 70.
I learned by playing StarCraft on 56k modem. VoIP was not possible so you had to type fast. Style is wildly non-standard but i was typing fast enough not to see a benefit from standard style.
I only learned to touch type properly because I was bored one summer and went cold turkey and learned Colemak. Before that, I had this weird pseudo touch typing technique with some keys being touch typed and others not, and because of the muscle memory, it was difficult to change.
so… people who take typing lessons and actively try to improve it have better typing skills than the ones who don’t. Shocking.
Gonna defend gen z a bit here. Unlike older generations, gen z was raised in a large part only on locked down, touch screen interface devices like smartphones and tablets. These devices are designed to not be tampered with, designed and streamlined to “just work” for certain tasks without any hassle.
If you only have a smartphone or tablet, how are you supposed to learn how to use a desktop os? How are you supposed to learn how to use a file system? How are you supposed to learn how to install programs outside of a central app store? How are you supposed to learn to type on a physical keyboard if you do not own one?
I worked as a public school technician for a while and we used Chromebooks at my school system. Chromebooks are just as locked down if not more locked down than a smartphone due to school restrictions imposed via Google’s management interface. Sure they have a physical keyboard and “files” but many interfaces nowadays are point and click rather than typing. The filesystem (at least on the ones I worked with) were locked down to just the Downloads, Documents, Pictures, etc. directories with everything else locked down and inaccessible.
Schools (at least the ones I went to and worked at) don’t teach typing classes anymore. They don’t teach cursive classes. They don’t teach any classes on how to use technology outside of a few Microsoft certification programs that students have to chose to be in (and are awfully dull and will put you to sleep).
Gen Z does not have these technology skills because they largely do not have access to anything that they can use to learn these skills and they aren’t taught them by anyone. Gen Z is just expected to know these skills from being exposed to technology but that’s not how it works in the real world.
These people aren’t dumb as rocks either like so many older people say they are. It’s a bell curve, you’ll have the people dumb as rocks, the average person, and the Albert Einsteins. Most people here on lemmy fall closer to the “Albert Einstein” end of the tech savvy curve so there’s a lot of bias here. But I’ve had so many cases where I’ve met Boomers, Gen X, and Millennial who just can’t grasp technology at all.
Also, before someone says “they can just look it up on the internet”, they have no reason to. What’s the point of looking up these skills if they cannot practice them anywhere? Sure, you’ll have a few that are curious and interested in it but a vast majority of people have interests that lie outside of tech skills.
Tl;dr Gen Z is just expected to know technology and thus aren’t taught how to use it or even have access to non-locked down devices.
Do these things correlate that much tho? Not to toot my own horn, but I am fairly tech-proficient and have terrible typing skills. My technique is somewhere in between hunt-and-peck and touch-typing, despite regular typing lessons in elementary school. I imagine a lot of other people are like this, and vice-versa as well.
Do these things correlate that much tho?
Not at all. Is there any other profession than journalist where words per minute matters?
Court room stenographer
