Forgot what made me think about this topic but I’ve been considering this for a week or two… Curious what you all think.
When I mean “hardest” “video game”, I mean whatever game that you find objectively more difficult than all other ones on the market, as long as it’s a video game. I guess exposure to different genres/types of games can influence the answer to this question a lot so… Hence I was curious about your rationale.
I have a pretty solid answer & rationale but I guess I shouldn’t share that in the main post to bias results…
Ninja Garden 2 on Master Ninja mode. It’s the hardest action game I’ve ever played. Non-stop Incendiary Shuriken ninjas, rockets, and mini bosses. You literally cannot stop moving, make any mistakes, and have to react in split seconds the entire time or you’re dead. It’s borderline impossible. Never again.
The classic arcade game Venture. Go ahead, make my day:
https://archive.org/details/arcade_venture#
Venture is a 1981 arcade game by Exidy. The goal of Venture is to collect treasure from a dungeon. The player, named Winky, is equipped with a bow and arrow and explores a dungeon with rooms and hallways. The hallways are patrolled by large, tentacled monsters (the “Hallmonsters”, according to Exidy) who cannot be injured, killed, or stopped in any way. Once in a room, the player may kill monsters, avoid traps and gather treasures. If they stay in any room too long, a Hallmonster will enter the room, chase and kill them. In this way, the Hallmonsters serve the same role as “Evil Otto” in the arcade game Berzerk. The more quickly the player finishes each level, the higher their score. The goal of each room is only to steal the room’s treasure. In most rooms, it is possible (though difficult) to steal the treasure without defeating the monsters within. Some rooms have traps that are only sprung when the player picks up the treasure. For instance, in “The Two-Headed Room”, two 2-headed ettins appears the moment the player picks up the prize. Players die if they touch a monster or the corpse of a monster. Dead monsters decay over time and their corpses may block room exits, delaying the player and possibly allowing the Hallmonster to enter. Shooting a corpse causes it to regress back to its initial death phase. The monsters themselves move in specific patterns but may deviate to chase the player, and the game’s AI allows them to dodge the player’s shots with varying degrees of “intelligence” (for example, the snakes of “The Serpent Room” are relatively slow to dodge arrows, the trolls of “The Troll Room” are quite adept at evasion). The game consists of three different dungeon levels with different rooms. After clearing all the rooms in a level the player advances to the next. After three levels the room pattern and monsters repeat, but at a higher speed and a different set of treasures.
\Released
1981Old games were brutal.
Jet set willie comes to mind.
EU4…
I like most other Paradox games and I’m at least decent in them I’d say but EU4 just eludes me.
For the people unaware why EU4 is hard:
Take risk (the board game)
Now split the provinces till you have more than 3000 provinces. Then add variables to each region for culture, claims, trade good, trade power, buildings, development (in 3 aspects), the region they are part of, the trade node they are part of, religion, autonomy, unrest, devestation, temporary effects, and many many more.
Do the same for armies.
Add complicated politics, with royal marriages that allow countries to inherit other countries, war goals, casus belli requirements, etc.
Add colonization mechanics.
Add government mechanics (with many different variants for different governments ofcourse).
Add a compex Holy Roman Empire system and a complex system for the Chinese empire.
Add mechnics for different religions, including a pope and a religous war that can bring all of europe into a giant war.
Add a pool of diplomats, merchants, generals, and missionaries.
Now realise that I haven’t played the game for ages, and this was just mechanics from the top of my head, and without what they added in the last few years.
EU4 is not hard due to required reflexes, muscle memory learning, or rythm feeling. It is just a lot of things to learn and to keep track of, woven into a super complicated simulation.
It’s just so much stuff and I never knew what’s actually important and what not
EU4 is pretty much exactly as difficult as being a real king in history just without any of the long term consequences. Paradox worked pretty hard to make this the case.
Faster Than Light.
Seriously you could play ten games a day for a year and not even come close to winning, even if you’re quite good at it.
Try DCSS.
There is one game, one level, that was so hard to beat that I just gave up and walked away, never to return. The stampede on Lion King from the SNES.
A lot of games from that era were epically hard; few games had a difficulty setting, a lot of tie-ins meant games looked and played polished but no effort was given to make a solid game, computing power meant there was usually only one way to complete a mission or level. However this was a game made for kids and that fucking game, that fucking level was simply bullshit.
I got all the way to the last level once… but never beat it. The lava level man.
The Stampede?
I hardly ever beat Level 2…aka. the platformer version of “I Just Can’t Wait To Be King”.
And Level 3 has some annoyingly tough jumps too. I think The Stampede is level 4?
The only way most of us ever played the second half of the game is level select…
Even if I somehow managed to outrun the stampede and climb the waterfall, I could never ever manage to beat Scar. Thank goodness for older siblings.
Dark souls, Bloodborne
don’t starve adventure mode
this cute little game took me years to beat. souls games don’t even come close to it (and I love them very much)
it will throw a wrench into your plans at every step. the designers seem to have worked closely with psychiatrists to make you think you have figured it out only to destroy again and again and again
What makes it so hard is, that most of the problems you’re gonna face (starvation, sanaty, freezing, missing wappons/armor for battles) can be avoided/overcome easily only if you are prepared. Once the problems are here you often have no chance to deal with them when unprepared.
So after a while it becomes a constant danger evaluation in your head: There is an enemy… Fight or avoid? If i fight i might get hurt. Do i have time do find stuff to heal after the fight? And so on…
And adventure mode adds even more problems to the mix.
After writing this i realised that this sounds really stressful. But at the same time this is why i like this game so much :]
Out of the games I’ve played, OSU. I am pretty average at rhythm games where it’s like Project Sekai or the Miku Diva style games where all you have to do it wait and click a button or tap somewhere specific at a fixed location on screen, but I absolutely suck at the whole move the mouse and click thing. Just as bad with mouse as when I tried with my beginners tablet.
Most other games I play anymore are games I know I’m at least decent at, so I don’t have many games I’d consider the hardest or even to compare those too. Though, while writing this and thinking about it, I’d say I might compare OSU to Vib-Ribbon in general, default songs or not, and possibly even give it a close second for difficulty. And that’s despite it being more of a wait and click type rhythm game in my eyes.
I’ve actually been waiting for anyone to mention any rhythm games at all. I think rhythm games in general tend to have low skill floor, but insanely high skill ceilings (Freedom Dive, some Hatsune Miku songs, …), which make them an interesting case on the difficulty scale… Some rhythm games have unintuitive control too (OSU being a prime example with the mouse control, also Taiko series) which makes them even more difficult
Side note: I find it hilarious that the original game which OSU was based on was actually just a “tap a tablet” game though (Ouendan series, use stylus to click bottom screen of NDS)… also some JP arcades stock Reflec Beat and crossbeats Rev, Round1 has an exclusive game Tetote Connect, which are all “tap a button on the screen” games but you touch the screen with your hands instead
I agree, even the hardest non-rhythm games I seem to be able to get accustomed to in 50~100 hours, but not some of these monstrosities
Army Moves on the ZX Spectrum. I tried that game on and off for years, and I think I beat the first level once.
Last Battle on the Sega Megadrive (Genesis). I believe there’s a handful of people who beat it, but it’s genuinely impossible for mere mortals.
And then there’s Spelunky 2
Hardest to be the best at? Rocket League for sure
Freeways is a great game that makes me want to tear my hair out.
There are so many kinds of difficulty that this is hard to answer.
There’s fake difficulty, where the game is just being cheap. Some games are hard because their mechanics or controls are just janky.
Some games are easy to lock yourself out of the ending and not know it. Try the game from the start again!
There’s genuinely difficult games, but any time a game is difficult in a “fair” sense, there are people on the internet who’ll beat it with a guitar controller, or blindfolded, or without any power ups.
If you want a game that not many people could beat…I don’t think many people could beat Bokosuka Wars today…
Precisely. There are games where random factors like a particular loot drop, or doing well in an early battle thanks to random critical hits, or a good randomly generated starting point all determine if the game is reasonably beatable, or if you end up softlocked.
There are other games with certain, let’s says pranks, played on players with one hit kills that can only be avoided with foreknowledge. In modern games, at least these pranks are made shortly alter save points or there is a Dark Souls like way to regain equipment/progress. In a lot of older games, the player is forced to restart a big chunk of the game. At that point it becomes a test of patience rather than skill to replay the same level over and over.
Then there’s games like the original “pirates!”. It has an anti cheat that would present itself as a simple question like “do you recognize whose pirate flag that is”. The answer is in the booklet, and if you answer wrong nothing visible happens but the difficulty is cranked so high that the game becomes effectively unbeatable.
I’m glad you mentioned this! I completely agree… Which is kinda why I was asking about this in the first place. I was curious what others consider as objectively “difficult” for them, and I got my answer: my sense of “difficult” is very different from that of most Lemmy users…
fake difficulty
IMO I felt a lot of the answers pointed to games that are extremely high on the “cheap” scale… I mean yes cheap games are difficult, but yeah it does feel a bit artificial on the difficulty scale.
Which is also precisely why I didn’t think of most platformers as among the hardest games. Like for example the original IWBTG; is it difficult? Sure it is, but a large part of it comes from the game being cheap AF… Someone with good platforming skills can clear every section with a few tries. And the higher difficulties just reduce the number of checkpoints, not actually making the game fundamentally more difficult… I mean there are genuinely difficult platformers but there are objectively more difficult games out there
so many kinds of difficulty
I’m actually surprised almost no one mentioned any type of PvP games or games that are primarily reliant on competing against other humans… they go insanely hard, but like how much of Street Fighter’s difficulty is you being better than the other person vs just “know how the game works”?
If you want a game that not many people could beat
My favourite genre of games almost universally feature levels that probably fewer than 100 people across the world could beat (not counting customs), so… yeah.
A lot of games made in the 90’s were difficult. But that’s before entitlement struck the gaming community and the “I need to beat this game in a weekend” turds were dictating how games turned out.
Here’s one now!
Games made in the early 90’s were made for cartridges and floppy disks with limited memory and couldn’t contain a lot of content so difficulty was used to increase playtime.
Nice theory, but no. Just look at WoW as a perfect example. When it launched in the early 00’s, overland content had a bit of a difficulty curve to it. It was clearly intended to be somewhat challenging overall.
Other MMOs that followed had the same thing. ESO being a perfect example. In many places, and I recall it well- just doing side quests was risky. LoTRO is another good example.
Then over the years, the player base whined and the developers caved in to appease what was and still is called: “the care bears.”
The vocal majority of players that got tired of the grind and the difficulty, and whined their way into changing the overall feel of games to be winnable under the easiest of circumstances, and the last amount of time.
ESO is a soloable joke of a game and WoW is a cartoon. Now, difficult games are a niche novelty.
When an MMO launches it normally has little content and uses difficulty to pad playtime, especially subscription MMOs like WOW and pre-one tamriel ESO. Typically an mmo reduces difficulty of old content over time, when new content becomes available.
I do agree that the effect is much more pronounced the more popular a game is. LoTRO at least added some of the overworld challenge back with an optional difficulty slider after community backlash, and I’m not sure that a less niche game would have bothered.
With all due respect, I think that a load of excuse mongering. Everyone knows that casuals complain to developers all the time. And that they get their way because they threaten to quit/cancel their subs.
This isn’t a giant secret. It’s pretty well known in a ton of games.
it is a well known industry standard design philosophy.
“At the time, a console title cost something in the realm of $100 in today’s dollars (or over €85-95), which made each game purchase an investment requiring long consideration and thoughtful planning. At that price, every game needed to last weeks, if not months, to justify the investment. Most games achieved this with the good old “Nintendo-hard” philosophy: Brutal challenges make a relative dearth of original content last longer.”
