This sucks for me. I have to install Windows 11 on my other hardrive for work. I daily drive Linux.
It’s hell. But at least you can dial boot the damn thing.
I’d get a whole second machine and a KVM switch, it would save you much trouble
That is actually a great idea.
work is work
I have an old pc running windows 10, it would be cool if it stops getting updates. Makes for a nice offline pc to get some old apps and games running in the future.
The year of OpenBSD desktop it is, then!
I’m serious, I’m getting burnout not just from Windows, but even from Linux.
And saying that every GUI is easier to use than every TUI or every config file format is wrong.
GUIs can be hard and easy to use. Config file formats can be hard and easy to use.
The fallacy is that GUIs can theoretically be navigated “intuitively” without looking for documentation for setting up stuff, but in fact I dare you try it.
OpenBSD was the easiest system to maintain on desktop I’ve had.
Unfortunately, I wanted Wine and gamez.
OK, no rtw88 for OpenBSD, so … no.
Hopefully instead of turning into a bunch of e-waste, a bunch of “useless” desktops flood refurbishers, and refurbished desktops become even cheaper. I wouldn’t mind replacing my dying media server.
Can’t wait! Cheap linux laptops are abound!
7th gen Intel laptops with GPUs are already really cheap
If I were to buy used laptop, I’d want 8th gen or newer because that’s where intel finally made more than dual core for mobile.
Unfortunately when there’s 11 will install on an 8th as long as it has a TPM.
We have all heard this song before and know how it ends.
I’d rather pay for security updates than invite more AI and Microsoft sponsored spyware onto my computer…
So, could users just ignore that and just buy an anti-virus product or use 0patch? If it’s like Widows 8, most apps will still be updated for a few years.
Generally speaking that’s ill-advised, antimalware tools rely on heuristics and active samples.
You don’t wanna be the first person to get xyz virus. It’s certainly better than nothing though.
Unless you have an app you can’t live without Linux is the most accessible than it ever has been.
As a heavy user of Playit Live, Excel with macros and Google Drive, I’m stuck in a Windows World for a while yet. The first two could maybe run in Boxes if I send the audio to a USB device.
The most important thing to get updates in the browser tbh. That’s the source of nearly everything bad these days, and the main reason somebody would bother to update their PC.
I reckon they’ll continue providing updates for those for as long as there’s enough people using it. It’s not like Google are going to willing turn round and go “whelp, no more adverts and spying for these millions of users!”
And enable a strict firewall
This will be the best thing that ever happened to Linux. Hell, it might even make it up to 4.5% market share.
Oh no! Anyway, nobody cares but Linux folks looking to prove how much better Linux is.
And tax payers who have to replace perfectly good systems in schools and government offices.
There will be DOZENS of 10 year old computers that survived 10n years of service in a library or student run orgs. Dozens I tell you!
Let’s fix school funding instead of using it as an edge case to support old ass hardware that can barely hold 10fps in a zoom call.
Here in my southeast European shithole I’m not worrying about my tax money, the upgrade is going to be pretty cheap, they’re just going to switch from unlicensed XP to unlicensed Win7.
My steam deck has taught me that I’ll be completely OK running linuxn(probably arch) as my daily driver with a win 11 dual boot (maybe just a vm?) for things that simply won’t work on proton.
I’m in a similar boat. There have been some setbacks, but I’ve been planning a desktop build to replace my gaming laptop from 2015 for a long while now. SteamOS has given me the confidence to commit to an AMD build with a Linux OS. I’ve been on the fence between a few distro options though. Maybe mint, maybe Nobara, there have been a few others.
Is it going to be able to run decent games? I’m curious about support for GPUs. I guess VR won’t be a thing for a while.
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/18A4-1E10-8A94-3DDA
Can confirm VR works!
You may want to try Arch in a vm before daily driving it. It’s an excellent distro, but vanilla Arch is a far cry from SteamOS.
I’ve been daily driving Endeavour OS for a few months now and it’s great. It’s Arch based so there is a learning curve but it’s worth getting over the hump.
Do not use Arch as a daily driver if you are a beginner.
Despite what some people will try to claim, Arch is not stable.
Give Bazzite a try if you like Steam OS
SteamOS is not the same as its base Arch Linux. If you want something slightly easier but still Arch-based, try EndeavourOS (but please not Manjaro).
If you have the time, try switching on your own terms within the next year. It’s almost guaranteed you’ll run into issues, but trying to dual-boot now rather than later gives you all the time you need to figure it out before MS forces you on Windows 11.
Genuine question, what are your criticisms of Manjaro? I’ve been on it since about 2019, and haven’t had any major complaints.
For me, it feels like the best mix of features I’ve found so far. Pacman, AUR, very up-to-date repos, and Archwiki, without a lot of the major PITA manual labor I experienced with Arch. No shade on Arch, I just don’t have time in my life to constantly be tinkering and fixing basic stuff I want to just work.
Curious why some people recommend against Manjaro now.
Manjaro as a project is amateur hour, over and over again. Their practice of holding back packages is bad, causing many version conflict problems. Their software DDOSing repos is bad, they can try to pass the blame to pamac, but they are the ones shipping it. Their repeated inability to keep certificates updated is bad.
EndeavourOS should be recommended over Manjaro every time.
Interesting, I’ll give it a shot on my next rig. Looks like it came out after I’d already gotten comfy with Manjaro.
Can’t say with my use case I’ve run into any of those issues, though the cert stuff sounds kinda gnarly, especially to happen more than once.
It’s hard to argue against “ain’t broke why fix”, and frankly, I’m surprised your install has lasted so long without going sideways heh. If you avoid the AUR that’s probably helped. And I actually do believe manjaro has improved in the last year or two - it’s just difficult to recommend while endeavour and archinstall exist.
Fortunately this won’t be my first dance with dual booting Linux, I’ve tried it a half dozen times since the late 90s, going as far back as multibooting booting slackware, nt4 and win98. I’m sure I’ll go through a few distros before settling on one that works for me. I’ve also got 6 drives in my pc (2 nvme, 2 sata ssd and 2 HDD) so I have lots of room to play. One major thing for me is HDR support which is pretty new in Linux so I’m not sure where we stand on that.
Updoot for Slackware in the 90s!
I’m probably one of the last people who use Win 8.1. The only thing I use there is Smart Switch to back up my phone. For everything else, there is Mint. I’ll keep up with that setup until my hardware fails.
Win10 LTSC still has quite a few years left.
What’s the point of staying with Windows 10? You’re just pushing the problem further ahead in time. You might as well start leaning Linux now, instead of waiting til you have no other choice.
Some people just need to use Windows you know?
But if you can’t run Windows 11 then you’re on your own once the support for 10 stops…
Ok, but if you need to use Windows then people telling you “Just install Linux” isn’t a solution.
QEMU is para-virtualization at near native speeds and supports GPU pass through for ya vidyagames.
Needing Windows isn’t just about video games
Sucks to be you then.
Staying on an old and unsecure OS sure is a solution, but it’s incredibly fucking stupid.
At least you could install Linux and use an old Windows version inside a VM instead of running a vulnerable system on bare metal. That way you can still use Windows when you need to.
Windows isn’t any less vulnerable now than 1 week after end of support.
People with exploits available that are unpatched are waiting for that end of support. It increases the value of their unreleased exploit.
My solution was buying a $150 iMac.
Windows Mixed Reality (ie: Windows VR) was deprecated and removed from Windows 11.
So, if you have a WMR VR Set, you’re going to be stuck with Windows 10 (or an even lesser supported Version of windows 11 - v 23H2).
It really sucks, given the price point I’ve throughly enjoying my Odyssey+. I’ve had it for 4 years, but now I’d need to decide if I dual boot (which sucks) or see if another VR headset reaches my price point (which is also dumb, because I don’t find the O+ to be “that bad”).
I can only speak for myself, but I have always had bad luck with Linux on desktop. Something always breaks, isn’t compatible, or requires a lengthy installation process involving compiling multiple libraries because no .deb or .rpm is available.
On servers, it’s fantastic. If you count VMs, I have far more Linux installations than Windows. In general, I use Win10 LTSC for anything that requires a GUI and Ubuntu Server for anything that only needs CLI or hosts a web interface.
My experience with Arch and BTRFS has been nothing but great. If my system break I can just roll back a snapshot.
I avoid Debian, Ubuntu or other distros that hold back package versions because that’s where the problem starts in my opinion. I shouldn’t have to use workarounds to install the packages I want. Arch with the AUR just work so far.
Try Pop_OS!, it just works.
The problem with Linux is fundamental, and no distro is going to solve it.
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It’s made by devs and for devs. The reliance on the CLI is it’s death knell. It will never be usable for normies until this problem is solved but nobody wants to solve it because it’s “so great”. Even when there is a simple solution, if you search for it, the only thing you will get is CLI solutions.
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#1 is compounded by the variety of distros. Meaning often when you do attempt those CLI fixes, they simply don’t work and return some sort of generic error with no hint as to what the actual problem is.
Things like changing the default power profile, adding fractional scaling, or changing the default audio device, all things that are super simple on any other OS, are ridiculously convoluted.
At least for me, the whole “made by devs for devs” isn’t really the major downfall. It’s the fact that it can’t be trusted to remain functional in a dynamic environment. I like using the command line, but sometimes that’s just not enough.
If I need a specific software package, I can download the source, compile it, along with the 100 of libraries that they chose not to include in the .tar.gz file, and eventually get it running.
However, when I do an “apt update” and it changes enough, then the binary I compiled earlier is going to stop working. Then I spend hours trying to recompile it along with it’s dependencies, only to find that it doesn’t support some obscure sub-version of a package that got installed along with the latest security updates.
In a static environment, where I will never change settings or install software (like my NAS), it’s perfect. On my desktop PC, I just want it to work well enough so I can tinker with other things. I don’t want to have to troubleshoot why Gnome or KDE isn’t working with my video drivers when all I want to do is launch remote desktop so I can tinker with stuff on a server that I actually want to tinker with.
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Might try again. It’s come leaps and bounds in the past few years. I’ve been Linux only for the past few years after dual booting for many and the one thing I miss is game pass. Every game I’ve tried on steam or gog works — often better than on windows.
It’s not available for individual consumers though unless you pirate it, isn’t it? (which makes it perfectly good reason to pirate it)
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Pirating it is a bad idea if you’re downloading it from a non-Microsoft source, since malware would be a big risk. That would defeat the purpose of installing a supported OS in the first place. If you download it from Microsoft and use a pirated key maybe that would work, but would you get the security updates?
Are there people downloading Windows copies somewhere else than straight from Microsoft? I haven’t used Windows on my computers in 10 years but back then you installed it in trial mode and then activated / kept it activated with KMS tools.
Type “github MAS” into your favorite search engine.
Oh, how nice of Microsoft to host it!
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Have my second pc on running Linux mint for about half a year now and it’s been a pleasure so far.
I think I’ll be prepared to switch over fully in a year.
So fucking refuse to switch over to 11
All of the random BS it requires is a bit of a turn off but the 10ish percent drop in gaming performance is a no go. Linux with proton should outperform the os the games are designed to run on but here we are.
Similar to yourself, I switched to Mint about 9 months ago - initially on dual boot before ditching Windows altogether (the Windows updates kept fucking everything up). For the one piece of software that I missed on Windows 10 (Fugawi Digital Maps) I simply created a Windows 7 VM, that doesn’t connect to the internet, and installed it on there. In fact, it has made me realise just how crap 10 was in comparison to 7. Linux has been a pleasure. Not only has it made computers interesting to me again, but I’ve learned a shitload along the way. It’s nice to have a computer do what I want it to, rather than the other way around.
What do you use to run the VM? I run Mint and have been meaning to get a Windows VM up but there are too many options
VirtualBox.
virt-manager
VirtualBox for me
Same bruv.
I only have one computer that can run 11 because of the TPM module, it upgraded by accident.
All others will run linux
Pretty telling when the only way you can get your users to “upgrade” is by stealth. I wonder what the % of involuntarily upgraded win11 users is vs people who knowingly and willingly did so.
I would’ve upgraded to 11, but either my computer doesn’t support TPM or I just refused to turn it on. So instead I upgraded to Ubuntu. There are probably better distros but I had a limited about of time to fuck around trying them.
Mint is pretty nice, too. It felt familiar, as a windows user. But I kept installing stuff that broke the updater. So I switched and found it’s me, not the updater, and I just need to do
apt update/upgradeanddpkg -iregardless, but anyway now I’m on Ubuntu.I still have my full windows install on an SSD somewhere if I had an emergency, but I haven’t had any such emergency in about a year.
I keep trying but I can’t make Xlink Kai work with Dolphin, nor play using Zerotier for some lan games (tModloader, mostly)… Managed to make my DRG and Gunfire Reborn run, so I got that going for me.
Until I can make those 2 networks work, I’ll have to stay on Windows.
I’m using Linux mint all day at work, while I have a couple of rarely-used Windows machines at home. I think the swap to Linux on those home machines is going to be a winter project this year.
It might be more accurate to say the project will be setting up the Linux version of a few key pieces of software. The actual installation of Linux Mint is the easiest part!
Still waiting for Fedora to get VR support
