For me it is the concept of registering to vote. I am citizen so I have the right to vote automatically and only thing I need to provide is some accepted ID.
I wouldn’t know where to start. Maybe the electoral college and that nobody updated this in centuries. Makes it borderline undemocratic IMO. Especially the winner-takes-it-all formula that makes you have exactly 2 parties, with none of them really incentivised to do what the citizens want. At least on a national level. And the people can choose to either vote for one of them, whether they like them or not, or throw away their vote.
And the next thing are maybe the people themselves. I can’t imagine how half a population would like a convicted criminal, who’d like to make everything more expensive for them and doesn’t like democracy (which is kinda something the USA is proud of, historically) and would like to get rid of it. Which is completely detrimental to how and why the entire country was founded. And I mean you kind of have to be a racist yourself to like other fascists/racists? Or have some pretty severe issues in your life. I can imagine like 20-30% of racists around, or people who’ve been fooled by some charismatic character. But not half.
I can imagine like 20-30% of racists around, or people who’ve been fooled by some charismatic character. But not half.
You have too much faith in humanity. A smart-sounding Greek guy or another said that democracy is only possible with a homogenous population, otherwise the country will tear itself apart. I don’t agree with that conclusion, but the process they described is true, in both Europe and America. The way I see it, America has been ethnically diverse for a lot longer so they’re closer to or at the peak of the allergy-like reaction you witness in an ethnically diverse democracy. Meanwhile Europe only started feeling it recently because of Middle Eastern immigration, and it’s looking like that. Europe will in all likelihood go down a worse version of the same trajectory we’ve seen unfold in America.
I don’t think this has anything to do with diversity and ethnicity. I’ve watched people from very different cultures who also look different to me. Studied together with them or shared a flat. I live in a region that’s been a melting pot for quite some time now. And while we certainly cook different dishes and occasionally go grocery shopping at different places… Or go to a different hair salon… It seems to me we value exactly the same things in life. Struggle with the same things at work or in our every day lives. And generally have very similar goals. I think there is basically no difference. It’s mainly made up and made to believe. Certainly not the true reason for anything but some pretend argument for something else.
Sure, it’s not 100% like that. We do face different challenges at times. But generally, if you’re working class, you could sympathize with a working class person from a different ethnicity. They’re pretty much the same as you. While this doesn’t apply to your fellow white guy nextdoor who is an architect. But somehow you take it out on the person who is way more alike you? That’s not rooted in objective reality or facts.
I live in a region that’s been a melting pot for quite some time now
If you’re in Europe, I’d wager that your country has a thriving right wing movement that has seen increased support over the last 10 years, and that they gained that support at least partially by promising to stop immigration or deport immigrants. Otherwise, well, there’s too little information here for me to say anything.
That’s not rooted in objective reality or facts.
It’s objective truth that a significant fraction of any population is deeply xenophobic and doesn’t view these things as you do. I’m making a claim about the human psyche, not ethnic differences, so you’re not really refuting my point.
If you’re in Europe […]
Germany, Ruhrgebiet. So a region that has been shaped by coal and steel industry. Though it’s one of the examples where the change from heavy industry to modern economy worked out relatively well. But that means we’ve had lots of immigrants come here to work since the nineteenth century. I always like to think hating on immigrants is like taking a crap in your own backyard. Because that’s my heritage and part of what constitutes this region.
Of course it’s way more complicated than that. Sometimes we forget where we come from. And it comes with different implications when it’s been Polish immigrants who are catholic as well, or Turkish people who grew up with a different prophet. (And they do weird things like go to sunday school on friday, or take off their outdoor shoes before prayer.) And after that (in recent times) it’s been other countries like Syria where people came from due to war etc.
I suppose there is a parallel to the USA. US history is a lot about migrants, let alone a few Native American people. But that was a long time ago.
your country has a thriving right wing movement
Yes. That’s something we all struggle with. And it worry about that. I think there is a multitude of factors. Society should put in some effort to fix this. We have stupid people, people who aren’t stupid but easy to manipulate, we have people in precarious situations and it’s not healthy to leave them behind. Especially without any perspective but with access to Telegram to radicalize themselves and each other. I’m not surprised this turns into hatred against random things. Immigrants, the establishment, … I suppose that’s a big reason why we have some 20-30% of people voting for some complete nutjobs. But: It’s a minority here. And that’s (still) a big difference to the situation in the USA. But we also have a lot of the same problems. And I suppose another thing is the world getting more complicated and people having to deal with it. They’re looking for answers. And if we don’t have any, someone else will make up some simple answers and hand those out to everyone.
I’m making a claim about the human psyche, not ethnic differences […]
You’re right. I’m reasoning about things and none of that is about thinking. It’s about emotions and feelings, wanting to be heard or a lack of (felt) perspective genuinely turning into hatred. It’s all about human psyche and manifesting in a very, very unhealthy dynamic. I wish us all the best. And I really hope there is a way to reconvene and steer towards a future that’s not dominated by hate and small-mindedness.
(Edit: And btw, my perspective doesn’t translate to other parts of Germany. It’s a whole different story there. And people might not even have any immigrants as neighbors if they live in other parts of the country.)
That they’re held on a work-day, to disenfranchise those that can’t take the day off.
I mean yes, but the real disenfranchisement comes from making sure the lines are hours long for the only polling station in your county (while every suburban school is a polling station in rich neighborhoods).
We had laws against that (not that they were followed), but the Supreme Court struck them down because “they weren’t needed anymore”.
Isn’t that quite normal even in other countries? I believe we do it quite commonly in Denmark.
Yes. In the UK, our elections are always on Thursdays. No one has ever complained about it because it’s literally not an issue.
The idea that it’s an attempt at disenfranchising people because you have to vote either before or after work is laughable.
The difference I suspect is in the ease of which we have access to local polling stations within walking distance of our homes, and how short the queues are, if there are queues at all.
In the US these problems can be magnified, especially if everybody is trying to pile in to the stations (or just reach them) within the one hour they have before their 12 hour shift, etc.
Gerrymandering. i dont know a second democracy where such a blatant version of voter suppression is allowed.
Singapore
61% of the votes, but 89% of the seats in parliament
That campaigning starts over a year in advance… then you don’t even have a switchover for two months.
AskLemmy is not the right community for US politics. Locking.
First past the post. Electorate college. Overrepresentation of smaller States. Gerrymandering. PACs.
And thats just the ones that pop up immediately. For calling yourself a democracy, your system is quite rigged.
The insistence on electoral districts.
You get that across the English-speaking world, though. The really weird thing is that even people who see the problem want to keep the districts and argue for non-solutions like ranked-choice voting.
Centuries ago, it made sense. Communities chose one of their own to argue for their interests in front of the king. Which communities had the privilege? Obviously that’s up to the king to decide. Before modern communication tech, it also made sense that communities would be defined by geography.
Little of that makes sense anymore. When their candidate loses, people don’t feel like the 2nd best guy is representing them. They feel disenfranchised.
It used to be, in the US, that minorities - specifically African Americans - were denied representation. Today, census data is used to draw districts dominated by minority ethnic groups so that they can send one of their own to congress. This might not be a good thing, because candidates elsewhere do not have to appeal to these minorities or take their interests into account. Minorities that are not geographically concentrated - eg LGBTQ - cannot gain representation that way.
The process is entirely top-down and undemocratic. Of course, it is gamed.
Aside from that, the mere fact that representation is geography based influences which issues dominate. The more likely you are to move before the next election, the less your interests matter. That goes for both parties. But you can also see a pronounced urban/rural divide in party preference. Rural vs urban determines interests and opinions in very basic ways. Say, guns: High-population density makes them a dangerous threat and not much else. In the country, they are a tool for hunting.
The entire process of the electoral college makes no sense at all. The only thing it accomplishes is making some peoples votes better than others. Which is so fucked up if you think about it.
That one party (the Republicans, just to be clear about that) tries to invalidate votes and tries to make voting as hard as possible AND THEN gets away with it.
That for the last 8 years one party keeps nominating a criminal who keeps admitting that he wants to fuck the country into the dirt. And people still vote for him. Every country has its idiots, but they usually are in the 5%-10% range. In the US it’s almost 50% of the voters. That is remarkable.
Oh, and the two party system sucks, too. They are not the same, fuck everyone who says they are. But it still does suck.
for republicans, if you don’t toe the line, you’re out. no longer part of the club. only 100% unwavering loyalty and fealty to dear great leader will allow you a seat at the table. it’s a cult.
That we allow one party to use disenfranchising legitimate voters as a election strategy. It’s always one party.
The rallies, with celebrities and stuff. Bizarre.
Everything in America is a circus.
Being registered “as a republican/democrat” is weird.
Electoral college is weird AF
One party trying to stop people voting is weird.
Queuing for hours to vote is weird.
Purging voter rolls is weird.
Rallies are weird.
Townhalls are weird.
Flags everywhere is weird.
The orange one is super weird.
Electoral college is weird AF
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0065
It was just added because it was the only way to launder slave votes for slave states, if you did it 1 vote per person then who got to choose who the slaves voted for?
We need to fix it, but there’s no way in hell they’ll give up their most precious possession, no matter how wrong it is.
That might have been revolutionary in 1776, and cut it in 1950, but its the 21st C — as long as the electoral college exists the US should not be viewed as more than a pseudo-democracy at best.
Good summary
FYI registering with a party affiliation is so you can vote in their closed primary election (where they pick candidates to run in the general election)
Anyone can register with any party, or none, and change their affiliation at will.
Townhalls are weird.
Town halls? As in the building or does this mean something else? Aren’t town halls quite common and normal elsewhere?
Flags everywhere is weird.
We kinda do this in Denmark too tbh. I personally don’t find it that weird due to that.
Townhalls are a type of political event. They are typically small forum events held in places like town halls or school gyms and involve the politician giving a short speech typically limited to a single issue or current event followed by a longer period where the audience asks the politician questions. It’s not limited to campaigning, legislators often hold these events outside of elections. Theoretically they give the politician the opportunity to hear issues and concerns that their constituents most care about but mostly they are used to drum up support for legislation that the politician already supports.
Hmm okay. I do think we have something similar here where there might be meetings that we call “citizen meetings” where anyone is invited to come and hear about a current political topic. It’s mostly informative and people can ask questions and stuff, not related to campaigning or elections mostly I would say. So yea I don’t think that is too weird honestly.
I think they’re talking about town hall meetings.
I’m not sure about the format but I know that towns in Denmark also occasionally calls for meetings. This doesn’t sound that weird to me
Electoral college is weird AF
I think it’s less unique than people think. In France, there is an electoral college specifically for the Sénat, which is a secondary legislative chamber compared to the Assemblée Nationale. They can amend law proposals after they are submitted by the Assemblée, but in case of conflicts, it’s the Assemblée that decides.
The college is made of people locally elected in various types of previous local elections. I think part of the reasons for this system is to have a representation of every locations that is not only proportional to the population. For example to prevent populated areas from dictating laws to unpopulated areas that don’t make sense for their local circumstances (typically around urbanism and transportation).
It may make sense for specific services which are naturally bias and unfair (can’t think of any that would warrant it), but for general governance weighting citizens votes differently for any reason is entirely anti-democratic.
Also the UK’s House of Lords is no better. Giving a bunch of historically elite landowners authority based on wealth and birthright is fucking disgusting.
Many many things, but one I’ve not seen touched on much is how LONG the lead up is.
Here, quite often they announce an election and then a few weeks later we have the election.
It doesn’t really make any sense to drag it out, that’s more than enough time to learn about the candidates, the current state of the various parties and their manifestos, and time for debates and discussions and such before polling day.
The idea that an election run up can go on for months and months and months feels silly/wasteful.
The fact that there is a chance that the fascist will lose. Unimaginable in Russia.
the money!
The fucking shows your politicians put on. Like going places and then having some monologue in front of a bunch of people. Not even a debate or something… Weird as fuck to me.
