• Im_old@lemmy.world
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    15 hours ago

    The question is: does it make sense to buy toothpaste with fluoride then or can I buy one without? Just because my kids don’t like the peppermint ones and other flavours are most of the times without fluoride

    • Nougat@fedia.io
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      15 hours ago

      Non-fluoridated toothpaste is mainly for kids who are too young to be able to consistently spit it all out. The concentration of fluoride in toothpaste is high enough that you shouldn’t be swallowing it, because doing that on the regular is harmful to your teeth. Gray discoloration is one of the first symptoms.

      If your kids are capable of doing “rinse and spit,” then they should be using fluoridated toothpaste.

      • Dabundis@lemmy.world
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        15 hours ago

        And even then, there’s a significant safety margin worked into the advice that you shouldn’t swallow toothpaste. You’d need to eat several tubes of prescription strength toothpaste to get sick from fluoride.

        Still rinse and spit though

        • Nougat@fedia.io
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          14 hours ago

          Absolutely true - and I just remembered, even if your kids are little and using non-fluoridated toothpaste, you should still be using this time to teach them rinse and spit.

          • aStonedSanta@lemm.ee
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            13 hours ago

            What is this rinse? You are supposed to leave the toothpaste on your teeth iirc. No water rinse.

            Edit sorry realized this comes off harsh but not sure how to fix it. Lmao

            • EtherWhack@lemmy.world
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              11 hours ago

              With you having to judge millions of children, that you need to get high just to stay sane; you get a pass.

              But there is a general recommendation to not eat or drink for 15-30min after brushing to give enough time for the fluoride to bind to any exposed enamel surfaces. It’s also better to use a fluoridated mouthrinse over water, if getting the grittyness is what you’re after.

    • Rookwood@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      Fluoridated toothpaste is more effective than drinking water. The fluoride works by direct contact with the enamel. Another reason it doesn’t make sense to put it in drinking water.

      • SuperIce@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        Fluoride in the water is beneficial in the pre-eruptive phase (when teeth are still growing). Fluoride ingestion increases tooth resistence to cavities if the ingestion happened while they were growing.

        This does mean that fluoride in water isn’t really useful after you have all your permanent teeth though.

    • insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe
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      12 hours ago

      For other toothpaste that still strengthens enamel, there is toothpaste with hydroxyapatite (which can be ingested, at least that specific ingredient). Though it is probably more expensive.

        • insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe
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          8 hours ago

          I mean you can buy it here in a normal store. So I’m not sure if you mean a dentist can’t use/provide it, or if you’re thinking about the nano forms of it.

          Edit, just saw this:

          the FDA regulates dental products like toothpaste as cosmetics rather than therapeutic agents for cavity prevention

          Interestingly, many ingredients used in dental care, including fluoride, are employed off-label. This means they are used in ways not officially approved by the FDA but are still considered effective based on scientific evidence and clinical practice

  • FUBAR@lemm.ee
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    9 hours ago

    The question about this is that the same can be said about lead. Do we want to consume that?

  • zephorah@lemm.ee
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    9 hours ago

    Next headline will be how fluoride contributes to autism and it will have just as much evidence as the vaccine bit does. How is this even a thing? Is ground zero on this RFK?

    Meanwhile, all the people who can’t afford dentists will have even worse teeth going forward. Make America’s teeth British again.

    • Robust Mirror@aussie.zone
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      6 hours ago

      Well look at the statistics:

      Fluoride:

      • Water fluoridation in the United States began in the 1940s
      • By 1949, nearly 1 million Americans were receiving fluoridated tap water
      • In 1951, the number jumped dramatically to 4.85 million people
      • By 1952, the number nearly tripled again to 13.3 million Americans
      • In 1954, the number exceeded 20 million people
      • In 1965 an additional 13.5 million Americans gained access to fluoridated water.
      • By 1969, 43.7% of Americans had access to fluoridated tap water.
      • In 2000, approximately 162 million Americans (65.8% of the population served by public water systems) received optimally fluoridated water
      • 2006: 69.2% of people on public water systems (61.5% of total population)
      • 2012: 74.6% of people on public water systems (67.1% of total population)

      Autism:

      • First recognised in the 1940s
      • During the 1960s and 1970s, prevalence estimates were approximately 0.5 cases per 1,000 children.
      • Prevalence rates increased to about 1 case per 1,000 children in the 1980s.
      • 2000: 1 in 150 children
      • 2006: 1 in 110 children
      • 2014: 1 in 59 children
      • 2016: 1 in 54 children
      • 2020: 1 in 36 children

      Seems pretty clear cut to me.

      /s because people think I posted this in seriousness.

      • Redex@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Damn, I guess fluoridated water also then caused computers, world population growth and the eradication of polio.

        Idk if this is a troll post or this person never heard of the fact that correlation does not equal causation.

        Case and point.

      • webadict@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        This is, and I don’t say this lightly, one of the dumbest conclusions I’ve ever seen someone jump to.

        Might as well say that fluoride in the water caused software developers, lmao.

      • DevopsPalmer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 hours ago

        Let’s ignore the better diagnosis processes and just take two trending upward statistics and make a broad correlation and call it fact.

      • aStonedSanta@lemm.ee
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        3 hours ago

        They need to do stuff like this often in HS to show students how you can bullshit truths and make its facade of truth feel legit.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        7 hours ago

        Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but if not, then I’m about to blow your fucking mind

        STOP EATING RICE!

        NAME YOUR DAUGHTER SARAH, IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE THE AMAZON! AND WHATEVER YOU DO…

        …DO NOT NAME THEM TRISTEN

        If we shut down flights to Antarctica, inflation would’ve been solved yesterday.

    • ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works
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      11 hours ago

      Democrats would love it. Republicans would suddenly discover that flouride is the only thing standing between our children and the gay agenda.

    • kalleboo@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      My barometer is when it’s something that pretty much only the U.S. is obsessed with doing, then it’s probably a dumb thing caused by lobbyists or something. Fluoridation of water falls under this.

    • Lowpast@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      I don’t understand your point.

      Nobody drinks the ocean. Fluoride is barely active topically. Most humans rarely if at all swim in the ocean.

    • protist@mander.xyz
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      5 hours ago

      I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

      Second time I got to post this today, unfortunately because it’s almost ceased being satire.

  • beebarfbadger@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    Oh yeah? And what if someone ignores that, simply lies and says it’s toxic? I’m convinced!

    • Brickhead92@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      And both of these people telling me about fluoride in water are both experts in their field. One an expert toxicologist, and the other an expert liar. Now I don’t know what to believe.

    • bradinutah@thelemmy.club
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      11 hours ago

      The stuff also known as hydric acid. People just don’t talk enough about how corrosive it is. Plus, it gets in the air and gets in your lungs!

      • BussyCat@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        It’s 10 million times more acidic than drain cleaner!!! And the government is trying to force you to drink it by forcing it to be used in municipal drinking fountains

      • TehWorld@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        It’s so pervasive that they have found it in the bodies of every single child worldwide.

    • Squiddlioni@kbin.melroy.org
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      13 hours ago

      Thank you for the link. It’s worth mentioning that there are response letters to the publication you linked from other experts, the majority of which are critical and point out misinterpretations and omissions by the author. It’s always good to question, but in this instance it looks like the consensus amongst experts evaluating that publication is still that fluoridation is safe and improves dental health. The response letters can be read here.

      Edit to add: The responses include a letter from the dean of the Harvard School of Dental Medicine stating that the publication is deeply flawed and requesting a retraction, and a similar condemnation from the students of the Harvard School of Dental Medicine. The article was given greater weight by being linked to Harvard, but in fact Harvard dental experts explicitly disagree.

    • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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      13 hours ago

      Your link is more or less an opinion piece from a geneticist, so this isn’t even her field of study.

      All her health issues she points out are for fluoride concentrations over triple the amount that tap water is brought up to.

      The reason it’s usage spread across the country was because while the entire country had access to things such as fluoridated toothpaste, counties and cities that started fluoridation of their water supplies consistently had fewer cavities than areas that didn’t fluoridate the water. This alone outlines the glaringly obvious flaw in her argument.

      Further still, while the US adds fluoride to the tap water in a concentration to reach 0.5mg to 0.7mg per liter of water (a couple drops per 50 gallons), natural drinking water for over 20% of the world is in concentrations well over that (to be clear, being well over that can cause health issues. Too much of anything can cause health issues.)

      In other words, there is no evidence that this low concentration of fluoride causes health issues. There is loads of direct evidence that it reduces cavities. Plus, this woman from your opinion piece is talking out of her field. Not to mention that 21% of the world’s drinking water supply naturally already falls within the recommended range of what the US takes theirs up to. It’s just that most of the US water supply naturally falls below that amount.

      • finderscult@lemmy.ml
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        12 hours ago

        No, the reason fluoridation in water is widespread is because fluoride is produced far more than there is market to sell it otherwise.

        • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
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          8 hours ago

          By that reasoning, we should start putting all of our waste products in our water supply - since we weren’t able to sell them otherwise.

          … Or perhaps there are other reasons to consider?

          • finderscult@lemmy.ml
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            8 hours ago

            You seem to have confused me with someone that is for putting industrial waste, i.e. fluoride, in drinking water, I’m against it personally.

          • finderscult@lemmy.ml
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            8 hours ago

            It’s cheap because it’s industrial waste that has significant cleanup and disposal costs. It was sold to municipalities after there was “research” that it helped tooth health, which it can in much higher concentrations than is in any water supply. But the reason it’s added to water is because the companies that otherwise would have to pay for clean up now make money off the waste product and can afford kickback funds.

    • sleen@lemmy.zip
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      14 hours ago

      I appreciate that you put some reputable sources, rather than relying on a random tweet/post.

    • heraplem@leminal.space
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      13 hours ago

      Counterpoint: I live in an area without fluoridated water, and I’m told that dentists can reliably identify people who didn’t grow up here by the state of their teeth.

        • Squiddlioni@kbin.melroy.org
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          11 hours ago

          Not sure why you’re being downvoted. The anecdote happens to parallel the scientific consensus, but “I’m told that dentists can tell” isn’t an appropriate argument when discussing medical research.

        • heraplem@leminal.space
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          11 hours ago

          It’s actually exactly in line with what the link above says.

          In June 2015, the Cochrane Collaboration—a global independent network of researchers and health care professionals known for rigorous scientific reviews of public health policies—published an analysis of 20 key studies on water fluoridation. They found that while water fluoridation is effective at reducing tooth decay among children, “no studies that aimed to determine the effectiveness of water fluoridation for preventing caries [cavities] in adults met the review’s inclusion criteria.”

          In other words, water fluoridation might not make much difference for adults, but it can for children.

          • Squiddlioni@kbin.melroy.org
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            11 hours ago

            The link above is not reputable and was directly refuted by, among others, the American Dental Association, the American Dental Education Association, the American Association for Dental Research, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the Harvard School of Dental Medicine itself. From the response letter signed by the dean of the HSDM:

            The magazine article states that CWF “does not appear to have any benefits in adults” based on the results of the Cochrane systematic review. However, the Cochrane review did not make this conclusion. Rather, the review specifically states “We did not identify any evidence, meeting the review’s inclusion criteria, to determine the effectiveness of water fluoridation for preventing caries in adults.” Due to the lack of studies that met the inclusion criteria, the Cochrane authors were not able to make any conclusion on the effect of CWF on adults. In fact, there are studies that were not included in the Cochrane review that demonstrate a caries preventive benefit of CWF in adults.

            See the letter I linked for the studies it’s referencing with a demonstrated benefit to adult teeth. The Cochrane review’s inability to conclude whether there was a benefit or not was a limitation of the Cochrane review’s inclusion criteria, and not an absence of studies indicating a benefit.

    • go $fsck yourself@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      This is a disingenuous take. This is a cherry-picked article that does not come to the conclusion you draw here. You also state “It does have neurological effects” but leave out the most important piece of information for that to be true: high doses.

      Why should anyone trust what you say when you’re twisting the information to suit your narrative?

    • Ramblingman@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      The bad part about Rfk jr is he probably mixes in some science with quackery. I honestly assumed all his ideas are insane. That’s what’s so hard about being discerning right now, you have to be on one side or the other.

    • Greyghoster@aussie.zone
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      13 hours ago

      Interesting. The article doesn’t actually say that fluoridation in water supplies is dangerous but that some researchers are questioning. Generally code for lack of scientific evidence. It also finds that early studies may have had a flawed basis (pretty much all early studies have been found wanting by later scientists) but doesn’t refute the results.The study mentioned in the article talks about high levels of fluoridation which I assume is in lab tests however these levels are not the case in water supplies.

      The correct way forward is more actual science based studies.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      12 hours ago

      Only 3% of Quebec’s population has access to fluoridated water and we have way more dental issues than any other province in Canada.

  • _bcron_@lemmy.world
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    15 hours ago

    Now say something that bros can really understand, like “fluoride affects zinc and magnesium absorption”. Just don’t tell them how it interacts