Toxicologist, toxicity, minuscule, fluoridated – your big doctor words are just trying to trick us!
The question is: does it make sense to buy toothpaste with fluoride then or can I buy one without? Just because my kids don’t like the peppermint ones and other flavours are most of the times without fluoride
Non-fluoridated toothpaste is mainly for kids who are too young to be able to consistently spit it all out. The concentration of fluoride in toothpaste is high enough that you shouldn’t be swallowing it, because doing that on the regular is harmful to your teeth. Gray discoloration is one of the first symptoms.
If your kids are capable of doing “rinse and spit,” then they should be using fluoridated toothpaste.
And even then, there’s a significant safety margin worked into the advice that you shouldn’t swallow toothpaste. You’d need to eat several tubes of prescription strength toothpaste to get sick from fluoride.
Still rinse and spit though
Absolutely true - and I just remembered, even if your kids are little and using non-fluoridated toothpaste, you should still be using this time to teach them rinse and spit.
What is this rinse? You are supposed to leave the toothpaste on your teeth iirc. No water rinse.
Edit sorry realized this comes off harsh but not sure how to fix it. Lmao
With you having to judge millions of children, that you need to get high just to stay sane; you get a pass.
But there is a general recommendation to not eat or drink for 15-30min after brushing to give enough time for the fluoride to bind to any exposed enamel surfaces. It’s also better to use a fluoridated mouthrinse over water, if getting the grittyness is what you’re after.
Fluoridated toothpaste is more effective than drinking water. The fluoride works by direct contact with the enamel. Another reason it doesn’t make sense to put it in drinking water.
Fluoride in the water is beneficial in the pre-eruptive phase (when teeth are still growing). Fluoride ingestion increases tooth resistence to cavities if the ingestion happened while they were growing.
This does mean that fluoride in water isn’t really useful after you have all your permanent teeth though.
Always buy flouride toothpaste.
For other toothpaste that still strengthens enamel, there is toothpaste with hydroxyapatite (which can be ingested, at least that specific ingredient). Though it is probably more expensive.
Unfortunately hydroxyapatite is not approved for dental use in the United States of America.
I mean you can buy it here in a normal store. So I’m not sure if you mean a dentist can’t use/provide it, or if you’re thinking about the nano forms of it.
Edit, just saw this:
the FDA regulates dental products like toothpaste as cosmetics rather than therapeutic agents for cavity prevention
Interestingly, many ingredients used in dental care, including fluoride, are employed off-label. This means they are used in ways not officially approved by the FDA but are still considered effective based on scientific evidence and clinical practice
My thing is this…
- Adding it requires effort
- Removing it, if possible, requires effort
- It’s not a requirement
- There are other alternative methods to get it, like toothpaste, or sumpliments, that don’t force your neighbors to have your fluoride.
So miniscule it won’t poison you but just enough to prevent tooth decay. You really can’t have it both ways. Pretending there is any real control over measurement is also ridiculous. Not to mention there is no need to drink fluoride.
You know what does work? Using fluoride topically and getting good dental care.
Those are different mechanisms, why can’t they have different concentrations?
I don’t know. I do know fluoride works topically. I also know there is no mechanism in the body to return fluoride to the teeth topically after it is swallowed.
So drinking fluoride is pointless.
<.< And before it’s swallowed?
If it is so good to swallow them why not swallow after brushing. Why are you so obsessed with swallowing something that does not help.
Different concentrations. If water is so good for you, why don’t you drink 10 gallons a day?
So then you admit there is no point in drinking fluoride then? Miniscule amount does not make a difference and the normal topical amount you use while brushing is not safe to swallow.
This isn’t rocket science.
So then you admit there’s no point in drinking water then?
Plenty of things we ingest are toxic in high doses, but valuable in smaller amounts.
Mm like beer
Like everything, including water?
So you don’t know, but all the data scientists and dentists, who DO know and are subject matter experts, who say it’s a good idea are to be ignored, because of your sheer ignorance?
Nobody refutes anything I am saying. I think you are confused.
We’ve refuted it, scientific testing has refuted it, you’re just plugging your ears and refusing to listen because you don’t like the answers.
I said fluoride works topically. Do you deny this? Please provide evidence to the contrary.
I said there is no way for the body to return fluoride where it is needed. Swallowing fluoride is pointless and unnecessary at best. At worst it is probably not a good idea to have fluoride in your water if you have kidney disease.
Don’t bother actually, we already no you know literally nothing about this topic.
You are spouting assertions about what sounds right while ignoring bodies of scientific evidence contradicting your viewpoint. Just because Lemmy users are unwilling to spend 20-30 minutes digging through arixv to refute you doesn’t make you right.
You don’t want to go and look up and analyze evidence that floride in the water supply is beneficial, you want to just assert the hypothesis you’ve formed as likely truth without evidence and research into related work, and I can confidently say this because experts who spend their lives reading papers and writing them on this very topic are qualified to make these assertions.
…This “sounds right” line of thinking has been the bane of civilization for eons. You aren’t breaking up some scientific fallacy like the church believing the Earth is the center of the universe, you are perpetuating one.
And because random social media people spout conspiracies about it and clearly they’re more educated on the topic than actual trained professionals.
/S
I don’t know.
You don’t need to know. Statistically dental health increases when municipal water is fluoridated.
Having read many studies on this the consensus is it probably does not help much if the population has adequate dental care.
https://www.cochrane.org/news/water-fluoridation-less-effective-now-past
We know what works, dental care and brushing have a huge benefit that is proven.
The idea of giving everyone fluoride in the water supply is pretty retarded really for several reasons.
If it naturally occurs fine, but adding it is ridiculous.
if the population has adequate dental care.
you said it yourself.
Ok, so for the poor people without care in those populations we say fuck them?
The mentally ill that don’t do self care?
Fluoridation is providing a baseline. “Does not help much” is a useless statement if that includes everyone with the means for higher levels of care.
There are a bunch of policy decisions that are like this. Yes, it won’t help you. Get over it, you aren’t the whole city.
You don’t even know where the fluoride comes from that is added to our water supply. Open your fucking eyes and realize it is okay to be wrong
Pharmeucutical grade fluoride works great topically. Dumping a toxic chemical in our water supply is borderline insane.
I don’t care if the fluoride source is toxic waste. It’s not injected in any quantity to do anything but provide positive effects.
Are you going to criticize chemo therapy for being gasp RAdiOaCtiVE??? This is the same thing.
Atoms are atoms…
so for the poor people without care in those populations we say fuck them?
The mentally ill that don’t do self care?
yes! someone finally arrived at the entire platform of the republican party: fuck everyone who’s not a rich cunt.
Agreed but can we turn down the chloramine valve? It tastes awful.
Why not just get a water filter?
The question about this is that the same can be said about lead. Do we want to consume that?
No. It can’t be said for fluoride. Lead is known to be extremely toxic. We’ve seen what it does. Fluoride in water is not toxic, which has been shown multiple times.
Your argument is asinine.
I don’t know why people can’t keep an open mind and look at issues without prejudice. What did I do to you for the name calling?
Anyway fluoride in water can be toxic. It’s all about the dose
Well sorry, I suppose I didn’t need to call your comment asinine.
But this is not an unknown issue. Multitudes of testing throughout decades have shown there is no toxicity for the levels that are in water. The county you’re living in most likely has their own case study available for you to read.
I can look at issues without prejudice, but valid issues. This is not one of those.
Also, if you’re talking about toxicity due to dose, you’ll die from water consumption before you’d get anywhere near toxic levels of fluoride. Don’t even think about any sort of medication you’re taking, it’s also probably more toxic than the levels of fluoride in water.
Again, sorry. I don’t want to be mean, but there’s so much information out there opposing your comment. I’d happily point you in the right direction if you’d like to read up on the plethora of resources stating it’s not toxic, and at least somewhat beneficial.
I believe the objection to fluoride is that it is a tranquilizer that keeps us from achieving glory through violent uprising… or sweet sweet dentist profits.
Next headline will be how fluoride contributes to autism and it will have just as much evidence as the vaccine bit does. How is this even a thing? Is ground zero on this RFK?
Meanwhile, all the people who can’t afford dentists will have even worse teeth going forward. Make America’s teeth British again.
Well look at the statistics:
Fluoride:
- Water fluoridation in the United States began in the 1940s
- By 1949, nearly 1 million Americans were receiving fluoridated tap water
- In 1951, the number jumped dramatically to 4.85 million people
- By 1952, the number nearly tripled again to 13.3 million Americans
- In 1954, the number exceeded 20 million people
- In 1965 an additional 13.5 million Americans gained access to fluoridated water.
- By 1969, 43.7% of Americans had access to fluoridated tap water.
- In 2000, approximately 162 million Americans (65.8% of the population served by public water systems) received optimally fluoridated water
- 2006: 69.2% of people on public water systems (61.5% of total population)
- 2012: 74.6% of people on public water systems (67.1% of total population)
Autism:
- First recognised in the 1940s
- During the 1960s and 1970s, prevalence estimates were approximately 0.5 cases per 1,000 children.
- Prevalence rates increased to about 1 case per 1,000 children in the 1980s.
- 2000: 1 in 150 children
- 2006: 1 in 110 children
- 2014: 1 in 59 children
- 2016: 1 in 54 children
- 2020: 1 in 36 children
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
/s because people think I posted this in seriousness.
Damn, I guess fluoridated water also then caused computers, world population growth and the eradication of polio.
Idk if this is a troll post or this person never heard of the fact that correlation does not equal causation.
This is, and I don’t say this lightly, one of the dumbest conclusions I’ve ever seen someone jump to.
Might as well say that fluoride in the water caused software developers, lmao.
Actually, software developers cause autism
Satire, I think.
Classic ice cream sales and violent crimes in summer correlation.
It’s too much like the real anti-fluoride arguments, man. I can’t recognize it, man.
Let’s ignore the better diagnosis processes and just take two trending upward statistics and make a broad correlation and call it fact.
They need to do stuff like this often in HS to show students how you can bullshit truths and make its facade of truth feel legit.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but if not, then I’m about to blow your fucking mind
STOP EATING RICE!
NAME YOUR DAUGHTER SARAH, IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE THE AMAZON! AND WHATEVER YOU DO…
…DO NOT NAME THEM TRISTEN
If we shut down flights to Antarctica, inflation would’ve been solved yesterday.
I never met the fellow. I never did the science either.
You all are easily impressed.
Same. I haven’t met any of the authors of books I read either.
That’s rather beside my point. As you well know.
Why play these games?
Have you done any science?
Case in point
I did say “any” science.
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Democrats would love it. Republicans would suddenly discover that flouride is the only thing standing between our children and the gay agenda.
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The fluoride is intentionally added to the water to improve tooth health.
My barometer is when it’s something that pretty much only the U.S. is obsessed with doing, then it’s probably a dumb thing caused by lobbyists or something. Fluoridation of water falls under this.
I feel like I woke up in the movie Dr. Strangelove
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Second time I got to post this today, unfortunately because it’s almost ceased being satire.
the people that need to hear this will never believe you.
How much oatmeal would I have to eat to die of fluoride poisoning?
0.08mg per half cup serving, but may vary depending on water used. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Fluoride-HealthProfessional/
10mg is the accepted daily upper limit for an adult. So 62.5 cups of oatmeal to reach that max safe limit. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Fluoride-Consumer/
Acute poisoning symptoms may appear as low as 10-15 mg/kg, lethal dose might be 32-64 mg/kg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_toxicity
So 200 to 400 cups of oatmeal per kg you weigh for a lethal dose. (32/0.08/2=200, 64/0.08/2=400)
That’s a lot of oatmeal.
For what’s it worth, in my country (Netherlands), we don’t add fluoride to our tap water anymore since the early 70s. We just have it in our toothpaste (though you can also get fluoride free toothpaste for those who don’t want it).
Sure there’s still traces of fluoride in our water, as it appears in nature. But it’s not artificially added by our water companies.
Most places that do add it to the water supply match the levels of places where flouride occurs naturally
Oh yeah? And what if someone ignores that, simply lies and says it’s toxic? I’m convinced!
And both of these people telling me about fluoride in water are both experts in their field. One an expert toxicologist, and the other an expert liar. Now I don’t know what to believe.
