Have seen a few posts popping up recently just straight up calling fo violence barely disguised as memes
Had thought Lemmy had chilled out a bit on that kinda thing for a while but seems to be coming back now
Anyone else noticing the same or just me?
What communities?
Radical but not logical. Make a post about a violent criminal who murders someone. And then poll the community if that criminal should get the death penalty. And I’ll bet the majority would say no and be against the death penalty for all convicted criminals. But those same people have no problem cheering on the murder of someone that they don’t like. If a person can live with this contradiction I’d guess that they just aren’t thinking for themselves but following a crowd.
The state has convicted and executed innocent people. The average criminal subject to capital punishment has killed an order (or several) of magnitudes fewer people than the health insurance industry.
As a country we seem to weigh more heavily acts of individual violence than those of systemic violence or violence borne of policy even when the latter 2 have far more impactful and wide spread negative results. It’s completely logical to draw a distinction between the 2 circumstances.
I’m not saying all vigilante justice is good, and I wouldn’t necessarily be against the state holding to account executives who have produced systems and policies that result in the harm or death of the state’s citizens, but in the current system justice is rare and in this act millions of people received justice.
and I wouldn’t necessarily be against the state holding to account executives who have produced systems and policies that result in the harm or death of the state’s citizens
Right, except if everything went exactly correctly as per the current justice system, the company would be found at fault, fined an absurd amount of money and closed. The wealthy executives who made the decisions that actually resulted in country-wide deaths would get sizable severance packages, take a short vacation, and 6 months to a year later open up the same business under a new name that imposes the same policies. It’ll be right back to throwing poors into a furnace to fuel their lamborgini’s until the next slap on the wrist.
We have no system to hold people accountable for their decisions as part of a company. We blame the company and then trust the company to police their staff accordingly. I’d love a widespread rework of the justice system to actually target the people responsibly for a companies actions, but we won’t get one, so instead, someone has been shot.
It’s not execution, it’s class war.
Using other words to describe murder doesn’t make it different.
Is Ukraine murdering Russians? Is Palestine murdering Israelis? Would it be murder if they killed Putin or Netanyahu?
You seem to think war which has been around since the beginning of time is the same thing as an individual violating civil law and murdering another individual. I find it fascinating reading posts and comments about this incident because it’s as if those who condemn murder are in some way fans of the guy that got murdered. I don’t know anything about him as an individual, but I think it is obscene for the head people of any company to get paid such a huge amount in comparison to the other employees. And in general I think health insurance companies suck. I’m saying that from personal experience. And, I don’t know, but the guy who got murdered may have put into effect policies that fucked many people who deserved insurance benefits and were denied. So was he a bad guy? Probably. But it doesn’t mean murdering him is justified or should be endorsed.
The problem with supporting breaking a law is that eventually someone that you like or admire, but who is hated by a large portion of the country is murdered like this guy. Then all of a sudden it’s a problem. You can’t have it both ways
I mean this is just another form of certain people taking advantage of other which is as old as war
Class war is war.
The US has literally bombed its citizens on 2 occasions because of class resistance. The military has literally taken up arms against the citizens it swore to protect over class differences. We describe violent clashes between workers and the bourgeoisie as “battles.”
Just because we’ve experienced a period of unprecedented peace doesn’t mean class conflict is over–it will not be over until class is abolished.
Also, revolutions, civil war, and war in general are most often illegal.
It was clearly an execution of an innocent man.
The guy was shot with his own words. Nothing innocent about it.
He was shot with bullets by a murderer.
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everyone who isn’t sad he died, really, is honouring his legacy. if you were sad he died, you might as well be pissing in his casket and shitting on his tombstone.
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He wasn’t killing anyone.
That’s a naive statement.
I don’t understand why people think in these terms, “If you approve of violence being done by your side, you must also approve of violence done against your side.” I’m not taking a principled stand in favor of violence for violence’s sake. I support that which hurts the enemy and oppose that which hurts friendlies.
Stealing from the rich? Good. Stealing from the poor? Bad. Killing exploiters? Good. Killing the exploited? Bad. There’s no contradiction here because my stance is based on self-interest and the interest of my class, not on any sort of categorical moral claim about some particular form of action.
There is actually no contradiction. I’m pretty sure everyone would be on board with those CEOs going to prison for life instead of them being killed.
The difference is that a convicted murderer is being punished. Healthcare CEOs are instead rewarded with a life of luxury for killing people. The law does not punish them for their transgressions. A citizen can not imprison the CEO for life. What they can do is shoot em.
So what many people are saying is that “rather a bad person gets punished than rewarded”. And if the only realistic punishment possible is killing them, because it’s fast and easy to do, then that’s deemed as acceptable even though killing is bad. Being rewarded for being evil is worse.
A CEO doesn’t kill anyone.
And they certainly don’t ever go on the lolita express.
It’s not necessarily a contradiction. Lots of people now trust a “fellow man” to make a judgement on who deserves death more than the state.
So they aren’t against killing “evil” people, they just don’t agree with the state’s definition of “evil”, or deny its right to decide that.Basically, it’s the premise of Batman: When the state has failed to deliver justice, the people turn to vigilante justice.
Vigilante justice is so cool right up to the point that it is used against the people that you admire. And that is the contradiction.
Is Lemmy getting more bootlicker lately?
Not that much, but I blocked some pretty nsfw instances…
Lemmy seems to have more crazies on it lately who are advocating for murder of innocent people just because they don’t like them.
Reddit sucks and now Lemmy is going down the tubes. Hopefully these people either get banned or Lemmy servers that advocate for senseless violence get shut down.
CEOs aren’t innocent
Just because they don’t like them? We’re you able to keep a straight face while typing that?
This is why people are celebrating. They didn’t like the person who was killed. They certainly wouldn’t celebrate if someone didn’t like one of their friends and their friend was murdered.
Your words are in human english, but your sentiment is that of some sort of unfeeling golem.
It’s not only normal and OKAY to dislike evil money hoarding capitalist oligarchs, but it is our duty for the sake of the future of humanity.
Your defense of these “people” is quite disgusting. If you don’t have 10+ million dollars you should be on the side that is rooting for a better future, not the side building underground bunkers and setting the air on fire.
It makes me not like you either.
So what, because you don’t like me, you’re going to murder me like the CEO was murdered? We just get to murder anyone we don’t like now and it’s somehow okay???
THAT’S the disgusting attitude, not someone who believes that people shouldn’t murder others.
There’s a difference between being annoying online and being hated because you think Scrooge McDuck wasn’t greedy enough. No one is going to ice you for having bad tales on the Internet.
do you hold stock in straw men or something? this person claiming they want to kill anyone they dislike? i don’t think they exist, and if they do, they’re clearly not in this conversation, so idk why you keep feeling the need to address them.
All I said was that I don’t like you dipshit. I’m not some boogeyman who is now going to appear like Bloody Mary because I don’t like you.
But if there was a post that said “Dipshit bootlicker murdered at his computer while typing apologist manifesto for the bourgeoisie” I’d probably be okay with it.
In a world rife with overpopulation, we don’t need people who say “Maybe it IS okay for giant corporations to keep their boot on everyones neck.”
You’re right, not enough people are being banned for supporting Israel or health insurance companies.
That’s not the reason to ban people. People should be banned for advocating for violence or for insulting others.
Supporting Israel or health insurance companies is advocating for violence.
Time for you to go back to Reddit.
I’ll go wherever I want.
The phrase “I’ll go wherever I want” is usually said to antagonize and threaten violence. Why are you threatening me?
One can only hope Hell is on that itinerary just based on the way you casually throw around labels like ‘crazy’. Bet you’ll be calling freedom fighters ‘terrorists’ next like some ignorant Amerikan next.
Where do you think they got the $10 million/year to pay this man? Who do you think instituted a policy to use AI for approvals/denials, which resulted in a 90% false rejection rate? What’s crazy is acting like the murder of thousands of people through denial of medical care for money, if done from a sufficient distance, is somehow less abhorrent than doing it up close and with a gun.
Expecting people who have either been directly impacted or had family medical care impacted by the policies of this man to show sympathy for him isn’t just unrealistic, it’s deranged. Considering United is one of the largest insurance companies in the US, that’s a lot of fucking people who are at best apathetic about the whole situation.
Obligatory ‘I suspect some people who can’t read might reply to this’ disclaimer: obviously you shouldn’t murder people. Including if you’re a healthcare CEO and it’s done by setting policies to squeeze the maximum profit out of people before they die.
No, people shouldn’t murder individuals who work at companies they don’t like.
And the people that run those companies, should they kill people depending on their company for healthcare if it makes them money?
just because they don’t like them.
Wow what a way to oversimplify the problem. Would you have been saying this in May 1945?
It’s not oversimplified.
What’s next? The guy who runs the corner gas station sells cigarettes at his store. Cigarettes are addictive and known to cause cancer. So this means the guy who owns the gas station should get murdered?
What about the CEOs of the gun companies? Should they get murdered because they put out a product that people use to kill others?
“it’s not oversimplified, oversimplifies and strawmans” lol
What’s next? The guy who runs the corner gas station sells cigarettes at his store. Cigarettes are addictive and known to cause cancer. So this means the guy who owns the gas station should get murdered?
He’s not the one making them, the cigarette companies are
What about the CEOs of the gun companies? Should they get murdered because they put out a product that people use to kill others?
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I say it’s getting less radical when 20 years ago a country got invaded, a million killed, based on nothing but lies and no one bat an eye on any forum.
Hopefully!
can’t workout if you’re genuine, or in mock agreement
Entirely genuine; the less people beholden to the settler empire and its fundamentally-toxic philosophies regarding both domestic governance and global interaction, the better; however it’s gotta happen.
Dersimde doğan güneş
Slaves cheering when a slave owner dies seems pretty normal, no?
Nothing of the sort happened lately in the news.
god willing
Can you think of anything that happened in the past month or so, perhaps involving US politics, that might have a tendency to radicalize people?
Its not really just Lemmy tho. Its everywhere.
People are just mad these days and that event in NYC ignited their anger they always had.
I think most people are more like saying “LOL” at what happened rather than “Lets kill [insert person name here]”. I mean, nobody really asked for it, nobody gave the pepetrator the “okay” to do it, the person just did it. People aren’t sympathetic because the dead person wasn’t such a nice person.
Remember how people celebrated Bin Laden’s death, this is like that. Different nationality, same killer mindset that they had in common.
bin laden didn’t kill nearly as many americans as united health has
Fair I’m not really on any other forums anymore and I haven’t heard anything about this CEO death until just now
Fascinating. Are you in the US?
I could not have avoided knowing about it. Even if I were to stay off the internet completely, it has been a major conversation topic in real life with friends and family. My work has BCBS health insurance coverage so when they were dropping coverage for anesthesia, all casual conversations at work with colleagues were about it too. I couldn’t have avoided it if I actively tried.
I’m not in the US no, so far nobody has mentioned it in conversation
how people celebrated Bin Laden’s death
Ouch, some deep introspection is required if you get to a point in life where you, being an insurance CEO and being killed lead to the same kind of mob reactions as Bin Laden’s death.
To be honest, the UHC CEO was probably responsible for more loss of life than Al-Qaeda was.
Also this guy did it without undermining the global vaccine movement. Thanks Obama!
I think most people are more like saying “LOL” at what happened rather than “Lets kill [insert person name here]”.
I’ve definitely seen quite a few memes that were like “Here are the names and faces of a few other health insurance CEOs. No particular reason ;)”. But yeah it’s probably not most.
I thought that was more noting that the companies were trying to quietly remove those pages and experiencing the Streisand effect in relation to that
I’ve seen both. Example of what I mean
Count me in the second category. I’ve got a mental list of people I’d love to see offed in similar fashion. I’d do it myself but I have to care for my mother.
Doubt it, but at least your priorities are on track
Don’t doubt it. I have skin in the game, it’s time these CEOs feel our wrath. They left my father to die a horrible death. I want revenge. There’s millions of me.
Agreed, but to say you will murder and actually murdering are two separate things
After my mother is no longer on this earth, don’t doubt me. I’ve had years of rage pent up in me over this. It’s justified. I’d only take out someone like the UHC CEO.
Don’t say that shit here. It’s called the FEDiverse because it’s full of feds.
Don’t say that shit here. It’s called the FEDiverse because it’s full of feds.
I can understand you emotions, even if I can’t directly relate (living in a country with universal healthcare). But I do think it’s a slippery slope. Those kind of “kill the oppressors” movements may hit the “right people” at first, but also have a tendency of going wildly out of control. (Khmer Rouge etc)
Real. I don’t think the average American can correctly identify the oligarch culprits in most cases, this is the exception.
Yeah, I mean, look what happened in the late 1700’s. A bunch of people in the new world did a kind of “kill the oppressors” movement, and then they had to start a whole new country with a new set of ideas - what a pain. Then people in France caught wind of it and decided to start the movement there, too! It was a whole mess for the bourgeoise of the time.
I mean those people in the new world also did a bit of genocide of the native people as a side project and the movement in France included a regime of terror where like 30000 people, including peasants and revolutionaries, were murdered by other revolutionaries. It was hardly just the burgeoisie that suffered. But sure, desperate times may call for desperate measures. It’s not something I’d particularly want to live through though and there’s no guarantee that what comes after will be better.
Correct. Those people, who were doing all that anyway. I’m not saying they were good people, but their revolution had nothing to do with the indigenous genocide. I do know that a lot of people were hurt or killed from “being too apologetic to British forces.” I don’t personally know enough about the French revolution to know about the amount of innocent casualties, but 30,000 doesn’t surprise me.
Things are bad over here, and they’re only getting worse. If I end up being one of the people killed during the - at this point - inevitable uprising, whether from fighting or from being mistaken as being too friendly with the corrupt elite, at least I could be happy that there would be a light at the end of the tunnel for those who do survive.
Yeah, don’t care. You have no idea what it’s like to live here and how many people are ready to take matters into their own hands. Our government and justice system are a sham. We’ve had decades to do things the right way and we’ve been blocked from all matters of doing things peacefully. Violence it is.
These people killed my father and rendered my mother and I homeless for a short stint. I’ve had a lifetime of trauma dealing with these ghouls. I’d kill them myself if I didn’t have a responsibility to take care of my mom. I’ve wanted to do what the assassin did for the last 13 years. You let these companies deny your family healthcare and watch your loved ones rot and see if you want to take the high road. I and millions more are out for blood.
This was the first shot of many to come. Fuck the elite.
Just be careful you don’t get in the crossfire yourself once the people’s bloodlust takes over and who the elite is shifts. In some cases, wearing glasses was enough.
I’m already visibly queer and have been physically assaulted most of my childhood for it and threatened as an adult too. I don’t give a shit anymore.
Always funny when people are like “yeah but what if you become the target next” as if you haven’t been the target already of not only individuals but also an entire system. Like, that’s why we wanna dismantle it lol
Those oppressors would just as easily turn around and kill you while profiting off it, why give them a pass?
…
Did you really blame a movement that basically existed for twenty years after relevance through US (and Chinese, interestingly enough) machinations and support, and was actually ousted by the communist Vietnamese, on a ‘kill the oppressors’ view?
Jesus, capitalists will say and do everything to blame the consequences of their actions on everyone else.
IMO. You have no clue what you’re talking about. You’re just parroting any anti-capitalist rhetoric and feeling superior about it. This is based on the fact that you enjoy calling and insinuating people are stupid
Who supported the Khmer Rouge?
Who ended up fighting and ending the genocide?
Who denied a genocide happened until the 80’s, and continued funding the Khmer Rouge until the late 90’s?
These are all simple questions with simple, factual answers. You just don’t like the picture the answers paint, and want to justify the intentional outcome of Kissinger’s designs and blame the outcome on the victims.
It sickens me to see people like the person I was replying to and yourself try and blame the people who were genocided for their genocide and to blame it on a economic ideology that had very little to do with the outcome.
Haha. You’re the one who mentioned said economic ideology. You are just stirring yourself up for the sake of being stirred up. So now I think you just see enemies wherever you go, and really, that is your personal problem.
And if you’re feeling sickened, try some pepto
First shots in defense of the working class have been fired in the class war and most of us are surprised it took this long.
As someone who’s father was killed by health insurance companies, the assassination of the UHC CEO brings out some really passionate bloodthirsty emotions in me. And I’m just one person….
The assassin is my hero. Too bad if it hurts your sensibilities. Fuck him, fuck his family, no sympathy. I hope there are many copycats, there are many deserving targets.
Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent revolution inevitable. They have it coming.
Sorry to hear about your father. There’s maybe nothing more horrific in Western society than the way we fund the lavish lifestyles of mass murderers like Brian Thompson.
And I have pearl clutchers whining about how my support for violence is wrong.
It’s self defense. The justice system doesn’t work against the rich so vigilantism it is.
It is wrong but I understand how you feel and I may feel the same if I was in your situation
No, it’s not wrong. They’re committing social murder and living lavish lives off it no less. Fuck bootlickers defending them with iTs WrOnG so is denying and delaying healthcare you fucks.
Denying and delaying health care is wrong. And while I think that murder shouldn’t be a desired solution to the problem as it is also wrong, at this point we have to accept that we’ve reached systematic self-defense.
Something needs to change, and there are currently no motivating factors encouraging those with the power to make change. I don’t want the answer to be violence, but, genuinely, what other options do we have at this point? The courts, the Democratic process, the police and the economy all work together to protect the massive wealth of the few, and we live in a world run by that wealth. I don’t want to hurt anyone, but more than that, I don’t want anyone to be hurt. When the few in power choose to hurt the many without, tolerance for the gaps in power, wealth, and quality of life give way.
Yeah, in summary, no one wants violence but we’ve been on the receiving end of it for decades and we’ve grown impatient with doing things the right way in terms of fighting back. It’s not like we haven’t tried every other way of doing things short of a mass general strike. And the people are too desperate and divided for such a coordinated action. So violence it is. I can’t believe it took this long.
Yes, but, see everyone else’s statements.
Also, lemmy.ml is widely seen as a very radical instance. The polarization and downvoting for contrary opinions is far worse around here.
