• gibmiser@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I do believe it would be a tactical error on their part to give him the death penalty… make a real martyr

      • Auli@lemmy.ca
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        3 hours ago

        Hahaha yah right. If they kill him there we’ll be massive bitching online and that’s about it.

        • strawberrysocial@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          I had the same thought. Us North Americans are not used to sacrificing ourselves for the betterment of the future generations.

  • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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    22 hours ago

    Doesn’t make sense to compare a rate of an outcome (without even knowing how often that outcome was sought) with an individual attempt whose outcome is not even known yet.

    When Mangione IS actually given the death penalty, this ‘argument’ will actually amount to something. Dumb until then.

  • Omgboom@lemmy.zip
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    1 day ago

    This you shall offer in the morning and this you shall offer at twilight, a lamb without blemish.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Shouldn’t there be leniency for killing a killer?
    Yes I know it’s about “sending a message”, but messages go both ways.

      • blandfordforever@lemm.ee
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        1 day ago

        When the killing is in self defense or in the defense of many, many victims, is this called justifiable homicide?

    • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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      1 day ago

      Protests within US are limited to major cities otherwise logistics are fucked due to suburb lay out of the most of the country.

      Also, most of are just too docile, it ain’t an issue I til they personally get fucked.

      • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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        24 hours ago

        That’s their point: America never does anything. People love to act like they stand for something, but cower at the slightest consequence or inconvenience.

        • Auli@lemmy.ca
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          3 hours ago

          Yes but they need all those guns if the government oversteps. Well corporations have overstepped and been stealing our money for decades and nothing happens. By dteeling I mean our wages are stagnent but c suite have increased immensely.

        • Shizrak@sh.itjust.works
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          21 hours ago

          Last time we had a major protest in the city of Chicago, 24 people died. That’s a little more than “the slightest consequence or inconvenience”

          Luigi’s protest was way more efficient. Only one person has died.

    • Shizrak@sh.itjust.works
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      22 hours ago

      When we have protests large enough to get noticed, we get attacked by the police. Why should the protesters have to suffer? Make the oppressors suffer instead.

    • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
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      19 hours ago

      We would, but most of us are too unhealthy from lack of access to affordable healthcare and can lose our jobs if we try to take time off work.

      Tinfoil hat time. Our government fucking hates our asses. Lower class? Get shot, die from preventable diseases, whatever, just do it quietly so it doesn’t bother the wealthy while they grease each other’s palms.

    • Maiq@lemy.lol
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      24 hours ago

      We have the Russian “and then it got worse” do nothing attitude. We aren’t even gonna try to do anything till its far too late.

    • atrielienz@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      https://apnews.com/article/unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-luigi-mangione-terrorism-law-7fcb28dcc0106c980b6ecf4aa9cf682f

      That doesn’t mean they can’t be tried as terrorists. The main problem here is actually whether or not the facts of the crime actually allow for a terrorism charge. Fact is, he had a manifesto (see ideological goals), and the shooting was a violent criminal act.

      According to the FBI that’s all it takes. It may also be what is lacking in the case of some school shooters.

      While I am generally on the side of “CEO FAFO”, I recognize that the problem here is that the FBI and the laws they follow are flawed (probably deliberately) in such a way that they only target those who target the wealthy.

      Shooting up a school is an act of terrorism if you do it because you’re targeting a soft target in an attempt to hurt the local, state or federal government or you’re religiously motivated etc. But not if you were bullied.

      There’s been plenty of over 18 mass shooters who also haven’t been charged with terrorism. And with each one there’s people who will say they don’t want the US to become more of a police state because they believe that counterterrorism techniques (which we use internationally) shouldn’t be used against the general population.

      The federal government has a habit of overstepping the rights and freedoms of the general public any time they feel like they are under attack. We saw this with 9/11 and the Patriot act. So I can see their reasoning even if I don’t agree that mass shooters should be considered terrorists under the law.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      Yeah, because the US “justice” system famously never treats juvenile defendants as adults in order to mete out draconian punishment that eliminates all chances for rehabilitation…

      • Amon@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        And they have definitely ratified the UNCRC because they definitely do not want to put kids in adult prisons, right?

      • Logi@lemm.ee
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        1 day ago

        The US Supreme Court prevented people who committed crimes as juveniles from being executed a number of years ago. Trump’s group might change that, but for now it is the law. They technically cannot be incarcerated forever either.

  • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    The state of New York is about to get a firsthand lesson in the Streisand Effect. They should have just charged him the same charge any normal killer would get - Second Degree Murder, which is the normal charge for premeditated murder in NY. First degree requires rare special circumstances, and the prosecutor chose to use a dubious “terrorism” modifier to up the charge to Murder 1. They just couldn’t help themselves, and they shot themselves in the foot.

    The advantage to the prosecution to a simple Murder 2 charge is that motive really doesn’t matter much. They just have to prove that Luigi pulled the trigger. But with the terrorism modifier, the trial will no devolve into lengthy discussions about his motives and message. Not only have they now given him the world’s largest soapbox, but this will also give the defense an opportunity to make him much more sympathetic to the jury. With only a Murder 2 charge, the defense lawyer would have had to fight hard to sneak subtle hints into trial about Luigi’s motives. Now his motives will be a core part of the prosecution’s case.

    With a simple Murder 2 trial, even jurors who thought Thompson got what he deserved could vote to convict based simply on the letter of the law. Luigi killed an evil man, but he still has to face the consequences like any other criminal. Now the jury will clearly see that the system isn’t treating him like any other criminal. The prosecutors, through their own actions, are making Luigi’s case for him - the justice system is completely rigged in favor of the rich and powerful, and the only way they can ever be held accountable is through violence.

    All it takes is one juror of twelve to look around at the situation and say, “this is bullshit. I’m not going to convict.” Sure, they can try him again with a new jury if he’s not found unanimously not-guilty, but that jury will have an even greater risk of jury nullification. The longer this goes on, the more likely the prosecutor just has to offer him some sweetheart plea deal just to get him convicted of something. And each trial just elevates Mangione that much closer to literal Sainthood in the popular imagination.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Except in every step things can develop the ways you haven’t thought about.

      And courtroom shows are kinda common enough in movies and even in reality. People will have strong feelings, but this doesn’t seem a major thing for many.

      So - too much copium. I hope you are right and I am wrong, of course.

    • smayonak@lemmy.world
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      13 minutes ago

      It’s been mentioned before but NYC will be using special jury screening processes to make sure none of the jurors are “terrorist” sympathizers.

    • prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
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      2 hours ago

      That’s how they’re justifying the federal charges, because he went from one state to the next, and he used the internet.

  • Nyxicas@kbin.melroy.org
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    1 day ago

    Land of Double Standards.

    Pulling an excerpt from George Carlin: “Politicians hide behind three things in this country: The Flag, The Bible and Children. No child left behind! It wasn’t long ago you were talking about giving children a headstart. Headstart, Left Behind. Someone’s losing fucking ground here.”

    • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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      1 day ago

      He spoke the truth but most of us were too young to understand but how did boomers miss these money shots.

      They were the audience

      • gibmiser@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Haha funny man is funny. Ooo my 401k is growing, line go up. What’s on TV?

        Not that it would have made a difference but as far as I know there was no call to action from Carlin. Without that many people just say yup, that’s life, and keep their head down.

    • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      The feds also indicted him. There’s zero chance a Trump AG isn’t going to be pushing for the death penalty. What they cannot seem to understand is that this will only make him a martyr. They should have just given him the standard NY Murder II conviction any other killer would get, but they just couldn’t help themselves. They had to really send a message to the proles.

      All they will succeed in doing is elevating him to outright sainthood.

      • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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        1 day ago

        They had to really send a message to the proles.

        They did, just not what they expected?

        Am I supposed to fear feds because I think Luigi if he did it, did nothing wrong?

        Or I suppose to fear them if I am gonna dpa. Copycat… I am pretty sure that guy would want luigi treatment… Kill me goverment while the working class talking about the topic I brought to the national level discussion.

        Also, I am not sure what’s up with the pictures. But luigis body language is of a man who is in control.

        They are the ones getting bent out of shape.

        Single payer or bust. The working class will need to get this done either now or in 25 years.

  • GiddyGap@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    And now that Republicans are set to have the Presidency, Congress and SCOTUS all at the same time, there doesn’t seem to be any barriers left.

    Abolish capital punishment!