You have to convince me I’m wrong, not get huffy and claim superiority in an attempt to bully complicity.
You have to prove you’re right, as you made the ridiculous unsupportable claim. I’ve already proven it, you refuse to admit it. Let’s move on.
If we applied anti-trust scrutiny to the parties, there would be forced breakups and structural barriers to them entrenching their grip.
Uh, sure. Or we could apply RuPaul’s Drag Race scrutiny to the parties and put tape on their doors to make sure they’re not sneaking out. They’re not businesses with products and markets. There’s a fundamental reason we don’t treat them like businesses (although the analogies are admittedly obvious). It’s because your scrappy, revolutionary Pokémon Go party deserves to meet, advocate, advertise, and run for office without being audited by the Shithole State Assessor and OSHA.
So, again, no.
There used to be more than two parties that got EC votes in the US, evolving going through schisms and mergers as they react to electoral realities.
. . . Agree? And? The resulting duopoly - a foregone conclusion - means boo Democrats bad? What’s your point. EC is mandated duopoly. Let’s get rid of it and whatever your point might be can be rendered mercifully moot.
Stein is controlled opposition, yes. But you’re swinging at ghosts - I want STV/ranked choice/etc and third party coalitions in Congress, not a token protest vote without a meaningful platform or experience.
Well, we’re in agreement there. I’m not jazzed about the coalitions only because I think it’s another porkbarrel trap and I don’t have a good sense of how it would work, but, yes.
DoMA was quashed by a legal challenge, not Democrat led legislation
DoMA was an insult to humanity and all supporting Democrats should have been defenestrated from office. Ironically, the legal challenge was also from Democrats, so. I dunno. Politics.
”Bipartisan consensus on foreign policy” despite being generally unpopular, enough that even Trump got to lie and run on “no more wars”
I’m OOTL since Nov. so not sure what this is in reference to, but if existing officeholders can hold trump to anything I’m not necessarily against it.
ACA . . . failed to offer a robust government option, meekly offering repackaged private insurance under slightly better terms
Yes. And it was a huge win we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Clinton spent all his first term capital on H4A and the rest of his initiatives were bought-and-paid for with more cops and less welfare or some other political extortion. Obama got it done. It’s better. It’s not possible from any other party, period. Some good. You’re welcome. Thanks for hating the people who did the good.
Abortion not receiving robust protection from legal challenge in the last 50 years, relying on a (correct but) legally tortured right to privacy instead of a baseline agreeable standard via federal law or amendment
Yeah the protection was honored by all branches so let’s definitely lose the 80’s & 90’s to conservatives by repeatedly running on that. All you need to do is roll back other progress and find the career politicians willing to be sacrificed. Oh, the party is all-powerful, and can just make them do it? Lol.
Look at this shit - abortion is illegal and these fuckers STILL won. You want them to spend everything on a constitutional amendment to support what was already legal - and fail - to prove they’re genuine? That’s stupid. Yes they should have done everything to protect that right, they failed. AND THEN lost again. I realize it sucks. Politics sucks, what a revelation. Compromise is less fulfilling than heroic purity. Huzzah we’ve cracked it. Please.
And now the chatter is about ditching LGBTQ+ to court Hispanic and ‘moderates’ after the 2024 general…
Fuck “chatter”. We’ll get boatloads of chatter daily in the next four years. I’m out this time.
AOC just got blocked by Pelosi herself from the exact kind of ‘change from within’ you argue for.
Yeah. Which was bullshit. Pelosi needed to go awhile ago. AOC is young. And by the by, your wildly successful third parties are not chairing House Oversight anytime this century. So. You just wanna lay down in the road and die? Okay, but that is a super weird strategy for change. Good luck? I guess.
Voters (and spoilers) organized and ran a massive protest and advocacy campaign over Palestine
Yeah. Voters and spoilers. Demanding action, instant change. Spoilers. And voters. What a fantastic wedge. Worked a treat. And now, Palestine is well and truly fucked. Nice work, voters and spoilers.
I suppose we keep on with the camps and so on and hope the trump admin is more receptive? Heh. Oh well. We tried to explain this a hundred ways but it was not a discussion. No one was interested in understanding anything except now, today, immediately. Well. Anyway. You got what you wanted there. Why, I don’t know. It’s the opposite of good, but you demanded it. Okay then, now it’s here.
Unless you’re a donor or regular attendee at $3k-$500k per head fundraiser, or are one of the vanishing small intersectional group of voters who get microadvertised to death with focus tested messaging, you don’t matter to them.
No. Being active locally is free. They do listen. If you want to cut all ties with Israel and you are upset that haranguing the Poughkeepsie chair of the DNC isn’t getting it done, I’d suggest you reset your expectations of how national politics works. Coincidentally, that applies to third parties too. It’s hard fucking work if you’re not relying on corrupt racists and batshit evangelicals.
After Citizens United money is what runs elections,
Yeah. It’s a republiQan tactic and Democrats want to change it. Third parties should be helping.
and the Democrats insist on looming over the left wing political landscape and beating minority challengers, reinforcing the “losing prospect” narrative for third parties.
You mean they win elections? Why, if it only takes money? Couldn’t Jill Stein or literally any and/or all of the 52 other parties cobble together enough for a freaking House seat or, god, Sheriff of Bumfuck or something? No. They can’t. The “losing prospect” is a chimera. Quit believing in it.
Europeans manage to build actual coalitions all the time and govern effectively, listening to coalition parties (and thus voters who elected that strand of politician) whilst still managing to run an effective government.
Do they? Well good for them, that’s nice. Except the ones that don’t amirite? England, France, Germany, Australia - all having a little bit of a time with the relative conservative elements aren’t they? Hey howabout that Brexit, huh? Goddamn.
And with Mississippi having a larger GDP than Germany, and a lot of challenges Germany doesn’t have, let’s just say it’s possible an EU style governance may take more than one election cycle from naked authoritarianism.
America can legitimately be better, but you have to dare to hope for it, not resign yourself to the lesser evil every cycle, and then shout down everyone else who isn’t.
Very often it means hoping and resigning. The shouting down is an attempt to recognize we’re in serious jeopardy, but alas the idiots, thieves, and newly enlightened have eschewed knowledge, understanding, or responsibility and we are utterly fucked because of it. As to the OP, where are they now.
Massively cut election donations and establish universal FEC funding, and ditch winner takes all voting.
Agreed. And if it ever happens, in the history of this country as we know it, it will be a Democratic initiative. A mythical Congress of strong, independent, national third parties working together for common good in the next four years is more than a joke, it’s a fucking lie. You can DO - right now, today, as a Democrat, or you can NOT DO today or at any other time in the next at-least-twenty years, as a third party.
You have to prove you’re right, as you made the ridiculous unsupportable claim. I’ve already proven it, you refuse to admit it. Let’s move on.
Uh, sure. Or we could apply RuPaul’s Drag Race scrutiny to the parties and put tape on their doors to make sure they’re not sneaking out. They’re not businesses with products and markets. There’s a fundamental reason we don’t treat them like businesses (although the analogies are admittedly obvious). It’s because your scrappy, revolutionary Pokémon Go party deserves to meet, advocate, advertise, and run for office without being audited by the Shithole State Assessor and OSHA.
So, again, no.
. . . Agree? And? The resulting duopoly - a foregone conclusion - means boo Democrats bad? What’s your point. EC is mandated duopoly. Let’s get rid of it and whatever your point might be can be rendered mercifully moot.
Well, we’re in agreement there. I’m not jazzed about the coalitions only because I think it’s another porkbarrel trap and I don’t have a good sense of how it would work, but, yes.
DoMA was an insult to humanity and all supporting Democrats should have been defenestrated from office. Ironically, the legal challenge was also from Democrats, so. I dunno. Politics.
I’m OOTL since Nov. so not sure what this is in reference to, but if existing officeholders can hold trump to anything I’m not necessarily against it.
Yes. And it was a huge win we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Clinton spent all his first term capital on H4A and the rest of his initiatives were bought-and-paid for with more cops and less welfare or some other political extortion. Obama got it done. It’s better. It’s not possible from any other party, period. Some good. You’re welcome. Thanks for hating the people who did the good.
Yeah the protection was honored by all branches so let’s definitely lose the 80’s & 90’s to conservatives by repeatedly running on that. All you need to do is roll back other progress and find the career politicians willing to be sacrificed. Oh, the party is all-powerful, and can just make them do it? Lol.
Look at this shit - abortion is illegal and these fuckers STILL won. You want them to spend everything on a constitutional amendment to support what was already legal - and fail - to prove they’re genuine? That’s stupid. Yes they should have done everything to protect that right, they failed. AND THEN lost again. I realize it sucks. Politics sucks, what a revelation. Compromise is less fulfilling than heroic purity. Huzzah we’ve cracked it. Please.
Fuck “chatter”. We’ll get boatloads of chatter daily in the next four years. I’m out this time.
Yeah. Which was bullshit. Pelosi needed to go awhile ago. AOC is young. And by the by, your wildly successful third parties are not chairing House Oversight anytime this century. So. You just wanna lay down in the road and die? Okay, but that is a super weird strategy for change. Good luck? I guess.
Yeah. Voters and spoilers. Demanding action, instant change. Spoilers. And voters. What a fantastic wedge. Worked a treat. And now, Palestine is well and truly fucked. Nice work, voters and spoilers.
I suppose we keep on with the camps and so on and hope the trump admin is more receptive? Heh. Oh well. We tried to explain this a hundred ways but it was not a discussion. No one was interested in understanding anything except now, today, immediately. Well. Anyway. You got what you wanted there. Why, I don’t know. It’s the opposite of good, but you demanded it. Okay then, now it’s here.
No. Being active locally is free. They do listen. If you want to cut all ties with Israel and you are upset that haranguing the Poughkeepsie chair of the DNC isn’t getting it done, I’d suggest you reset your expectations of how national politics works. Coincidentally, that applies to third parties too. It’s hard fucking work if you’re not relying on corrupt racists and batshit evangelicals.
Yeah. It’s a republiQan tactic and Democrats want to change it. Third parties should be helping.
You mean they win elections? Why, if it only takes money? Couldn’t Jill Stein or literally any and/or all of the 52 other parties cobble together enough for a freaking House seat or, god, Sheriff of Bumfuck or something? No. They can’t. The “losing prospect” is a chimera. Quit believing in it.
Do they? Well good for them, that’s nice. Except the ones that don’t amirite? England, France, Germany, Australia - all having a little bit of a time with the relative conservative elements aren’t they? Hey howabout that Brexit, huh? Goddamn.
And with Mississippi having a larger GDP than Germany, and a lot of challenges Germany doesn’t have, let’s just say it’s possible an EU style governance may take more than one election cycle from naked authoritarianism.
Very often it means hoping and resigning. The shouting down is an attempt to recognize we’re in serious jeopardy, but alas the idiots, thieves, and newly enlightened have eschewed knowledge, understanding, or responsibility and we are utterly fucked because of it. As to the OP, where are they now.
Agreed. And if it ever happens, in the history of this country as we know it, it will be a Democratic initiative. A mythical Congress of strong, independent, national third parties working together for common good in the next four years is more than a joke, it’s a fucking lie. You can DO - right now, today, as a Democrat, or you can NOT DO today or at any other time in the next at-least-twenty years, as a third party.