What y’all talking about?
@drq @linuxmemes some noses work better than others
but calling windows shit is unfair. shit can still help plants grow. this is the kind of stuff you lock away in a mine forever and put a sign in front that says this is not a place of honor.
@lritter Yeah, looks like this is what it will take because nothing else works (or everything else is much worse that no amount of enshitification offsets it).
@shuro security-wise, being the less popular one has its advantages.
@lritter Yes, this works like that for everything in life.
However it is also the problem. Criminals go for popular things because they go after people using them. Lesser interest to make viruses and exploits goes together with lesser interest to make software, drivers, hardware… Heck, I remember days when a lot of popular websites didn’t work too well with anything except Internet Explorer - and it was real security nightmare at the same time with very real zero click exploits.
@shuro you can’t have it all ;) this is the sacrifice. it also means: no cambists in the temple. that also means very little fraud. enjoy it, while it lasts.
@lritter We’ll see how it goes.
I expect Windows becoming less relevant because of web apps and cloud taking off.
It is not necessarily good by the way, for the most people it already means they don’t have to run anything on their machine… or even have anything on their machine… just buy a subscription for movies, photo storage, email, messaging, office apps, isn’t it great? Gaming isn’t there yet but soon. And all these nice cloud-controlled IoT toys! No drivers, no cables, just your Wi-Fi password (and soon it won’t need even that).
TempleOS network edition.
@mittorn I guess everything that hit their trackers and had adblockers good enough to hide the platform :)
@shuro i do not think browser-based statistics is good. Anyone who do not want different from elsewhere will set windows UA and breaks this statistics. just imagine, how may bots may set windows user agent not being running on windows
@mittorn It is just an example.
You can check other sources and the picture is largely the same.
As for enshitification - not everything is about UI. One watershed moment for me was with XP almost never requiring basic drivers. Maybe except audio. Another was about being able to just use Explorer and not needing additional file manager. Yet another was supporting a lot of file formats out of the box.
Suddenly I needed only OS distro CD to make a simple desktop work.
@shuro supporting formats and hardware out of box never was good side of windows. But 12 years ago i used some PC which did not require installing any driver on windows 2000, EVEN TV TUNER worked out-of-box. None of linux live cd was capable to run it’s sound and network card and there are no drivers for tuner and 3d acceleration on this pc. Network and sound required building some kernel modules, disabled by default
@mittorn Well, my experience was clearly the opposite. Notably I worked in refurbished laptop store back then and later in some factory in IT department - and installing XP was the first thing we did. We had 2000 for most workplaces as established standard but it almost always required drivers for everything and it was even worse before with laptops. XP picked up all basic devices most of the time, quite often - all of them including weirder laptop hardware like IR ports and dock stations.
Naw, Windows 2000 was legit. Everything after that was shit.
Yes, but now there is blood in the poop.
And it is a dark red.
I liked XP. Never had any issues with it and things mostly made sense
I miss Windows 7 and the early days of Windows 10. Windows 7 was definitely peak Windows and I can’t really remember any complaints I had with it. It did everything I needed it to and very rarely ran into issues. Gaming was great and the bloatware was minimal, at least compared to now.
Nowadays Windows is full of bloatware and shitty decisions. Gaming has been better on Linux ever since I started using it a couple months back. I’m playing games like the Final Fantasy VII Remake and No Man’s Sky this past week and they’ve been running better on Linux.
My understanding was it used to be windows was decent enough, whilst Linux was an upgrade for those who valued freedom.
Now Linux is quickly going from ‘upgrade’ to ‘only sensible option.’
That’s where I’m at. LMDE is what my desktop will run soon.
Yep and that happened right about when windows XP came out.
XP was hated when it came out, but it wasn’t that bad. Then Vista and 7 happened. Then it got worse.
@drq @linuxmemes Even nt5.0 was shit, but it’s interface was really good. Later microsoft lost interface consistency. First is enabled/disabled visual styles, and second it dotnet interfaces, looking completely different This is enshitification :)
I liked Windows 97.
Windows 10 was great without the bloatware and telemetry that was slowly added to it. At first it was only a small amount that could easily be removed with a script.
Nah man. Windows 10 was full of telemetry from day 1. It was the first version of Windows that hid away the ability to even use a local-only login, trying to push every user onto a MS account for that sweet tracking and advertising dollar.
They even gave the OS away for free - absolutely unthinkable to 90s/2000s era Microsoft, now why would that have changed?
Pushing the users to their cloud offerings for those that they can tempt, and tracking, profiling, advertising for every user. From conception.
Windows 7 was the last good a Windows
People hated on 7 and said the same thing about XP.
Aka enshittification
Slow as all get out though. I ran it in a VM just for fun and lacks the performance improvements of newer Windows.
I think Windows 7 was the last version that wasn’t there for the purposes of advertising and collecting data in the effort to achieve recurring revenue.
Legitimately Microsoft was trying to make it a better product until Windows 10. 10 was a better product on accident, but it’s also where they started sliding down that slope…
Pretty much, in short. But it used to be far less shitty
Windows 2000 was the last good windows version.
@teft No, not really. It was stable but lacked versatility. It was nice for business but gave some headaches at home.
Also some people went even further and run Server 2000 on home computers :)
@shuro @teft this was last version that not broke interface consistency.
And not’ it was not stable. It was buggy like any OS at this time. But at least they found how consistent desktop interface should look.
I like how internet explorer 5-6 seamlessly turns to explorer windows and back. How everything looks good using system theme
Or menus and system dialogs, easily extendable by custom modules, registered in registry. Or like internet explorer, using gdi is drawing very fast when launched with RDP even with slow internet connection… Imagine something like this in wayland, which only operates pre-rendered bitmaps, it’s just impossible now. And where developers cannot use one toolkit that usin system theme and extending system settings of kde/gnome for 3rdparty app is just impossible.
And all of this runs good on 32mb ram.
Even now both windows and linux modern desktops are long far way from this.@mittorn I don’t care much about interface consistency when I can’t run software which worked on '98 :)
Also that consistent interface lacked features. A lot.
But it did crash far less than 95/98/Me family and still was less rigid and soulless compared to NT.
Still I welcomed XP with open arms.
I used to say that, but XP and 7 with proper 64 bit support would like a word.
I just shut down a win7 box a couple months ago. Ran continuously for 10+ years.
I remember having a bit of fun playing things like Stunt Car Racer on MS-DOS back in the early 90s for a few days. Yeah, that’s about it. That’s the best I can do even when I’m trying to be charitable. As soon as I owned my first computer (late 90s) I bought a Linux magazine, installed a distro from a cover CD-ROM, and never looked back.
Haven’t cared for any version of Windows, going back before 3.0 .
