So all I know that the Linux mascot is a penguin and Arch users meme about using Arch. Jokes aside I’m planning on making to the jump to Linux as I’m planning on getting a tower PC. I recently got a steam deck and that kinda demystified the (unrealistic) expectation I had of Linux was all command line stuff and techno babble. This all very future oriented questions* as I haven’t even picked out hardware (probably gonna go prebuilt since I do not trust me) and there’s also the matter of saving up the money for a new PC.
As for my use case (cus I know some software is wonky on Linux compared to windows) it’s mostly between games running on steam, which most of my games play fine on the steam deck, and essays and note taking for my college classes, which I use libre office and obsidian (with excalidraw to hand write my notes) saved to my proton drive and also sync those documents between my surface laptop and home laptop
My ideal OS would be plug it in, let it do… things… and it’s ready to be a PC to install steam and stuff
But first question, as someone who isn’t tech inclined and tinkering is pretty much just a few VERY basic settings in the settings app on windows, so is there a Linux… idk what to call it, type? OS? Thing??? that runs out of the box without me having to install additional software manually or at least automatic setup wizards because like hardware, I do not trust me with setting it up. As for installing it after I wipe whatever computer I choose I assume I’m gonna have some OS installer on a USB and let it work its magic.
Second question, is there any specific hardware that works easier with Linux, I can’t really think of any examples cus with installers and updaters I just the computer handle it, like updating Nvidia stuff in the GeForce app for all I know it’s genuinely performing dark magic during the automated updates
Anyways I probably have way more questions that I have no idea I had, but to wrap up I’m not super tech inclined since I let automated stuff do its thang on windows (if the computer can manage and install it I’m gonna let it do that) and my pc mostly just plays games and do documents on libre office and obsidian
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Using Linux since 2008 ish… (As non IT user), I recommend going and route, and using pop os (or bazzite which people say also works well but is personally haven’t tried), I am currently using tuxedo os on my laptop but my pop os journey for your use case on the home machine has been the smoothest, and if you go do route which I did, I had never thought about any driver issues… The only thing in pop (which I haven’t updated for a year now, yeah life got crazy), was that always do apt get updates / upgrades as pop OS’s package manager gui used to get stuck sometimes, once the terminal completes the updates then use the GUI to update the pop os things. Other than this small hiccup, never had to do anything else. (Oh yeah when buying hardware some people told me that getting the latest and greatest cutting edge sometimes takes time for the kernel to catch up to the optimizations of drivers, but I always bought 1 or 2 gen behind the latest and never had any issues, I mostly play Indy games other than 1/or 2 like Tekken series at 2k monitor so I never cared about 4k 120 or above fps.)
I’d just recommend against NVIDIA GPUs if you don’t want to tinker, I’m sure it’s not as bad as it was back when I had NVIDIA cards, but faffing around trying to get NVIDIA drivers to play nice was the bane of my existence (and where I was forced to learn the most about Linux).
Oh and the screen tearing was a nuisance too that went away as soon as I got an AMD card.
Looks like you got lots of great advice on the OS. Good luck, and enjoy whatever you end up doing!
Yeah I was probably gonna go with bazzite and it sounds like there’s some demo installer I can play around with but yeah definitely gonna break my nvidia streak (past 2 and my only gaming laptops) to finally get a proper tower with an amd gpu
NVIDIA is trash anyway so no reason to buy one regardless of OS
AMD gang!
In all honesty, I think it has gotten better over the last few years and it should be less of a headache now to use NVIDIA cards, I guess that depends on the OS though
there still is a reason to buy nvidia and it’s HDMI 2.1.
I want to keep using an OLED TV as my monitor, 4k and 120hz. TVs still don’t have displayport for some reason… and there aren’t any >50" OLED monitors in 16:9 available, at least where I live. and AMD didn’t get permission to use HDMI 2.1 driver in their open source driver. there is a dp > HDMI 2.1 converter, which sucks according to reviews.
I have nvidia 4 series and my linux skill is low enough that I think its insane gnome doesn’t have right click-create file by default and I have had 0 issues. You just need to disable secureboot or enroll keys.
I run Linux Mint for years and years, I think you will be happy with it.
Yeah mint and bazzite are gonna be the ones I check out and I was leaning towards bazzite at first but now I just need to do a bit more research and figure out what the heck it what but at least I have a starting point now
Go with Bazzite (if you end up liking it, you can install it on your steam deck, which will be the same process you use to install it in your laptop… but that’s for the future.)
Mint is okay, but it’s a bit behind and you have a greater chance of something going wrong than with one of the atomic distros (Bazzite). With atomic distros all the important stuff you can’t really touch and the only things you can change are your personal files that are important to you but don’t affect the system at all.
As long as you reboot your computer from time to time, it’ll always be the latest everything. And if something goes wrong with an update, you just choose to boot into the previous version you were just using and everything is back to how it was. Non-atomics you can affect files that are important and you have to stay on top of updating.
Between that and being built for gamers it’ll have everything already installed for you, though if something is missing, just click to install from the “app store”.
When you go to bazzite.gg to download it, you answer a few questions about your hardware, and pick a desktop environment. Some others have touched on Gnome and KDE for desktop environments, the choice is yours. Do you want a desktop that looks more like windows (or desktop mode on your steamdeck) or do you want it to look more like a Mac? Windows and highly customizable is KDE, Mac and just use it as is but still able to customize through extensions, is Gnome.
Really the hardest part is going to be installing it, but it’s really not too bad. There are plenty of guides, but it’s use a software to get the downloaded Bazzite file onto a flash drive, boot your laptop from that flash drive, follow the prompts and wait. Don’t try to dual boot (keep part for windows part for Linux). It’s possible, but from how you described yourself, not worth the headache.
Thanks for the write up, based on the information from all the comments and this I might go with bazzite then but I still have to do some research
I might make a follow up post eventually with a little more specifics now that I have some vague ideas
As for the survey thing is that something I do on my current windows laptop or is it during the install process?
As for constantly restarting I always press shutdown every night before I go to bed
You can do it right now and see what happens. Go to Bazzite.gg and go to the download section. It just wants to know where you’re installing it so it knows what version to give you to download. Installing to a laptop will be a different file than installing to your steamdeck.
And since you shut down nightly you’d always have the most current version when you boot up the next day. But that only applies to atomic (formerly called immutable) distros like Bazzite. If you go Mint, which isn’t atomic/immutable, that won’t be the case and you’ll have to stay on top of updating.
It’s early still, so you have plenty of time to do some research and when you’re ready ask the questions you still don’t understand and generally we’re pretty helpful around here. 😁
Yeah I definitely have a lot of info here, feeling a little overwhelmed but I just need time to sift through the nitty gritty and digest this
But I’m super early in the process haven’t even thought about what hardware I’m gonna get get (at least from this post I know need something AMD probably so that’s a start lol)
Also if I swap out to bazzite on my steam deck will I have to reinstall stuff like emudeck (only thing I’ve installed in desktop mode)
I guess in case no one else mentioned anywhere, when you install Bazzite (or any distro) it will wipe everything and you will start from scratch, so make sure your important stuff is saved elsewhere before you begin. Same with steamdeck. But one nice thing about Bazzite is that since it’s made by gamers for gamers, it has a lot of the things you’ll need preinstalled, or like emudeck you can just click to install it through their portal, so it should be minimal hassle.
Alright I’ll probably stick to whatever’s on my steam deck then since it ain’t broke
As for whatever new (prebuilt) PC I was gonna get I was gonna get Linux going first thing after I finish booting up the computer and speed running through the first time set up on windows (skip sign in, one drive all that)
Practice in a VM. Go from the base install to setting up all the apps to customizing the look of everything (commonly called “ricing”). That should give you a sense of what to expect.
When you think you’re ready, maybe give a few Live ISO’s a demo to see if there’s any immediate glaring issues when it’s running on bare metal. If not, then proceed to install when you’ve picked the one you like the most!
Yeah once I got a bit more research I was gonna get some vms and play around a bit but that’s a thing for future me
I know people have recommended Bazzite already, and I would too, but be sure to give PikaOS a look as well.
It’s a gaming distro, but it’s not immutable/atomic, though it uses a similar build process. Definitely one to consider if gaming is your goal.
I’m probably gonna go with bazzite first then mint if that doesn’t shake out but hey the more names I can look at the better
The reason why I would choose linux mint. Is the stability of the whole distro. It’s pretty solid. You can still upgrade kernels. Or even install mainline kernel tool if you wish.
Furthermore, Linux mint provide an easy tool to install drivers, in case you’re running a Nvidia card. And Mint is just basically Ubuntu under the hood,without the crap of Ubuntu. Meaning mint also support PPAs (personal package repositories). If you wish to get some updated package.
Excellent choice. I have Bazzite on a laptop, and it’s rock solid.
Feel free to DM me if you have questions. There’s also a Discord, where people are quite helpful.
Thanks!
Try Bazzite:
It will give you an experience that’s familiar compared to the Steam Deck, and everything will “just work” out of the box.
It already has Steam installed and is a great desktop for general use.
Yeah I’ve seen bazzite pop in a few steam deck discussions, some other comments recommend Mint how do they compare/differ
But like I said in another comment I’m not looking to tweak much, if anything at all, so I think it might be a good fit, definitely gonna take a look at that link when I’m off work
Bazzite is probably the best recommendation out of everything I’ve seen so far. It is meant to be like the Steam Deck experience on any machine, and if OP is already familiar with that, why not transition easily?
Couple the familiarity along with Bazzite being an immutable distro, OP can just roll back if they break something.
So what does immutable mean?
But I’ve seen it’s similar to the decks desktop mode from some other comments as well so that seems nice
I haven’t really interacted with desktop mode outside setting up emudeck (mostly DS and switch games)
what does immutable mean?
Strictly speaking, ‘immutable’ means unchanging. For Linux distros, this means that (at least some part of) the OS is read-only.
On any distro, you could invoke the
chattr +i path/to/file_or_directorycommand to make a file or directory of your choosing immutable. Thus preventing you or anyone else from changing that until it’s revoked.The so-called ‘immutable’ distros employ this at the OS-level. However, their implementations (and the implications thereof) may vary significantly amongst them, unless they share some ‘heritage’.
Going over the many different implementations and their implications is out of scope for what this comment intends. Especially as the ‘immutable Linux landscape’ is fast moving. Thus, potentially making it outdated the very next landscape-defining change.
So what does immutable mean?
The easiest explanation is: You can’t screw it up :)
That’s the reason I use it. It means that the system areas are read-only, and as a user you can’t “wreck” anything by mistake.
Ok cool so that’s probably a positive thing in my case since I don’t plan to tweak things and have no idea what I’m doing
Yeah, on immutable distros, you can’t just “delete system32” (rm -rf /* in Linux parlance), it is read-only (changes on restart with updates applied)
Depending on how you define immutable distros, you absolutely can.
For example with Fedora Atomic, which most peeps refer to when talking about immutable distros, you absolutely can do
rm -rf /*. At best, it might require you to include the--dont-preserve-rootflag (or something like that) to actually start the process. And, arguably, it ain’t as satisfying as doing it on say Arch due to the many error messages. But you’ll end up breaking your system.Immutable distros aren’t indestructible by definition. Even a dumb user can break it without ill intent; I know cuz I have done so myself 😅. However, it does offer better protection. Furthermore, there are multiple issue trackers on GitHub that indicate that the developers want to iron out these things and perhaps convert them to features instead. Like, wouldn’t it make sense for an immutable distro to ‘factory-reset’ whenever
rm -rf /*is invoked?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX0f_vyV06k
This video explains it well
While it could be functional as a cursory watch, it doesn’t seem that Michael Horn has done a good job investigating the subject matter. So, no, I actually disagree with it offering a good explanation. Granted, I couldn’t find any video that does this subject any justice; more often than not, they just tend to overgeneralize or oversimplify.
I was just going for a very high level explanation. If you feel like offering a more in depth definition, feel free to do so here.
I was intending to, but it got very unwieldy real fast. I did provide some very basic pointers, but nothing earth-shattering. I suppose this is a decent read with the acknowledgement that the author has primarily read up on Fedora Atomic (and not the other 'immutable distros). Which ain’t bad for our use as Bazzite is derived from Fedora Atomic anyways.
I completely agree, cannot recommend Bazzite enough. Installed it a year ago, first time linux, has been just smooth sailing
Alright good to hear. I was gonna try bazzite first then mint if I couldn’t get it going
Cool I’ve never seen this.
Just get an all AMD (CPU & GPU) build and flash a thumb drive with Bazzite (bazzite-deck), your PC will be very similar to your Steam Deck.
I did this, best decision ever.
Yeah I was looking at some AMD stuff and pretending all the tech specs make sense
If you want, post what you are looking at and we can help you chose.
Oh yeah that’s 100% what I was planning to do, I’m just talking with a few friends who actually know computer stuff so I can have a selection when I consult the Linux wizards once more
is there a Linux… idk what to call it, type? OS? Thing??? that runs out of the box without me having to install additional software manually or at least automatic setup wizards
The word you are looking for is called a distribution, or distro for short.
I’m surprised no one else has mentioned Bazzite, which should be exactly what you’re looking for.
is there any specific hardware that works easier with Linux
An AMD GPU for sure. Nvidia drivers have come a long way, but they don’t generally behave as well out of the box like AMD.
Yeah bazzite seems like a recurring topic here so I think I’ll check it out first since others have all said it’s similar to the steam decks setup (which has been limited to me installing emudeck but seeing familiar stuff might help me
Just deleted my windows parition and grew my cachyos one, im never going back after a week with it, I like cachyos/arch since I can use gnome and plasma at the same time easily (i like swapping looks a lot), idk if its as easy with others since they reccomend you rebase for different des like bazzite, aurora, bluefin. cachyos is straightforward with a gui installer, easier and much faster than windows to install and use, I used ventoy so I can keep using my usb for data.
I recently got a steam deck and that kinda demystified the (unrealistic) expectation I had of Linux was all command line stuff and techno babble.
Outside of gaming, browsing and flatpaks it still very much is. People here will lie and tell you it’s not. It is. But as long it’s just Steam gaming, it’s very simple.
so is there a Linux… idk what to call it, type? OS? Thing??? that runs out of the box without me having to install additional software manually or at least automatic setup wizards
Not really sure what you’re asking here but I think it’s a “package manager”. Basically an app store for Linux. Discover store in KDE or “software” in GNOME. Open it, search for your software, click the “install” button and be done.
Outside of the package manager, installations become complex quickly.
is there any specific hardware that works easier with Linux
Yes, generally new hardware won’t work as well. Linux drivers are a second class citizen. Also you’ll likely experience lower performance and extra difficulties with Nvidia vs. Windows.
You can just buy a system with Linux preinstalled. My laptop is from System76. I usually build desktops/towers from scratch but they sell those too.
Installing apps has always been easier on Linux then on Windows as Linux has had large free app stores back 30 years. The question is more are the apps you want in the app store. If not things get harder. I like Debian based distros like Ubuntu or Linux Mint as they have large app stores.
You might want to look at distrowatch.com. Mint is currently at the top.
I also recommend Linux Mint. It’s been hands down the best experience of all the Linux distros I’ve tried.
The installation is done with a USB stick. In short, you download the Linux iso image and create a bootable USB stick with a software. In Windows I have always used Rufus for that.
The Linux installer gives you a choise to wipe everything and install Linux. Installing Mint has always been very straight forward.
I can’t comment on hardware since I’ve only used Linux on +5 year old laptops. They seem to work fine.
There most likely will be many new things that can feel confusing in the beginning, but I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it. There also are tons of good tutorials of everything.
Best of luck to your Linux project!
Oh nice, so I just boot windows as normal then “run” the installer from a usb. As for whatever an iso image that makes no sense to me is that just the “program” that the installer is?
A lot of people have recommended bazzite so i might try that first but mint definitely sounds like a good “I have no idea what I’m doing just start working distro”
I touched on this elsewhere, but seeing your comment here… sort of.
iso image is like a .zip it’s a specific type of file… one that opens into a larger image, namely your entire distro. So you could install windows with an iso file. In order to be useful though, you need to get it onto a flash drive, but not just dragging and dropping. Programs like Rufus, mentioned elsewhere, will take that iso of Bazzite and open it onto the flash drive in a way that the computer will be able to read it later and do something with it.
After you have a working flash drive, you do not boot windows like normal and run the installer from a USB. You’ll have to figure out how to tell your laptop (different but similar for each brand of laptop) to boot from the USB. This usually involves having the USB in the drive, restarting your computer and hitting a specific key to tell it not to boot normally to windows, but instead boot from the flash drive.
I haven’t used Windows in a while and I think there’s also a way to restart windows and tell it to boot from USB as you’re exiting. But that’s what you’ll have to figure out for your specific device. That’ll be true no matter what you end up installing.
Thanks for the info, I’ll probably get more information when I’ve actually chosen hardware and do some big brain research of my own
If you have time to learn how your distro works: Archlinux. If you just want to easily install a distro and everything just works: Linux Mint.
If you want to really learn Linux, then absolutely Arch is the way to go. But OP is looking for something polished out of the box and probably doesn’t want to know much more than that. Some people just want a box that does the thing - and that’s totally fine.
I say all of this as a diehard Arch user (BTW)
Yeah I’ve peeked into some Linux threads from time to time to see if I can even understand what’s happening (spoiler alert: I could not) and I’ve gotten the impression Arch is great for tinkering and experimenting and tweaking which is great, just not the entry point I want lol
Yeah I’m kinda looking for a “it just works” since I’m not big on tweaking every little thing and I just really wanna play games and work on my documents
But keep in mind Mint is a non rolling distro, it means you have to upgrade to a newer Version in a periodic time (like win XP to win vista). Rolling release distro (like Arch) doesnt have a Version.
XP to Vista is a wrong comparison, as Vista changed the driver system, and on a lot computers it was impossible to upgrade, as drivers for a lot of stuffs wasn’t updated for Vista. Non rolling upgrades similar to the recent windows big updates: it take some time, changes the wallpaper, but not something very complex…
From the post:
But first question, as someone who isn’t tech inclined and tinkering […] that runs out of the box without me having to install additional software manually or at least automatic setup wizards because like hardware
Don’t recommend Arch to users who doesn’t want to tinker please. I know, I use Arch. Arch regularly requires user intervention, you should see them on the news: https://archlinux.org/news/ You can see, 3-4 times a year you have to fiddle with some settings, otherwise you can get an unbootable system.
And that’s how we get “the (unrealistic) expectation I had of Linux was all command line stuff and techno babble.”
There are also “easy” Arch like endeavour or cachy, but yeah, for users like him is Arch based not the best choice
But the required config changes can affect those as well.
Like last week I had to change repositories in
pacman.conf. It also affected endeavour, as it doesn’t have separate repos: https://archlinux.org/news/cleaning-up-old-repositories/This mkinitcpio config change should have effected all Arch based distros: https://archlinux.org/news/mkinitcpio-hook-migration-and-early-microcode/
Imo you should get a System76 computer, it comes with a gaming focused Distro and its the most well respected Linux brand (in the US, for EU I would reccomend Tuxedo). Their mini PCs cost $799 and for a decent full sized PC (with a GPU) prepare to pay over $1.5k.
So kinda standard PC prices
Slightly higher but yeah, also you get a premium PC with no RGB and a wooden finish
Ooooooooo that sounds nice
I might just go from Amazon depending on hardware and price but I’m definitely gonna add this to my list
If you go with Amazon you might get a PC that works with Linux but it probrally wont be preinstalled or optimized for Linux
Oh I highly doubt something has Linux which is why I wanna figure out installation and stuff
Keep in mind by purchasing from Linux brands such as System76 you directly support the development of Linux. In addition Amazon is great for finding PC parts but awful for finding a decently priced prebuilt.
Ah good to know, any recommended parts I don’t really keep up with hardware
If you really want a prebuilt one, of course.
It was explicitly specified that no tinkering should be required, also even if you custom build a PC you wont have several advantages of just going with system76. For example the mini PC uses their fork of coreboot and intigrates with Pop_OS, meanwhile on other systems you would need to manually install coreboot (if its even supported) and bios updates are still an absolute mess (even if you dont care about the privacy benefits of coreboot the extremely fast start up speed alone makes it valuable).
I really like fedora out of the box but if you’re used to windows some will recommend Linux mint. In fedora there are a lot of packages installable via the software store as well as downloading app images and RPM files.
Mint vs fedora is completely irrelevant here. GNOME vs KDE is more important and fedora supports both.
Which packages can be installed is also completely irrelevant since you can use nix and distrobox and flatpaks on all distros. Package availability is no reason to choose one distro over another.
Some distro’s still require you to setup those things yourself and in the terminal.
So bazzite and mint seem to be recurring themes here for my needs of something that works out of the box, do those need any set up or stuff? I don’t really know exactly what I’m asking here :/
On Mint, flatpaks is enabled in the Mint software center.
Sorry but what’s a flat pack? Is that like an installer?
Flatpak (flathub) is a universal app store. You can install pretty much any app from it, but you do need to be careful of what you install, as always.
Usually software centers have it enabled (supported) by default, so that you can install app from flatpak within the center.
There are other options of install source, like the distro’s own installer - you can think of them as another “app store”, one which is more restricted and more secure.
Oh that’s much simpler than I was expecting lol
So nothing in that sentence made sense to me lol, mind explaining?
The difference between distros are the package manager and choice of default software and settings.
E.g. Debian has no wifi enabled. Hence, ubuntu (which is like debian) is much easier because it’s user friendly. Ubuntu uses a disliked packaging format, snap, which is not used by mint. That’s why people love mint, becaus it’s as easy as ubuntu and has no snaps. Blablabla
Whenever you want to know some linux thing, read the arch wiki and you’ll know more about it.
Distrobox is like a vm, you spin up a distro within your OS with no overhead and can use arch on debian. Or ubuntu on arch. Or fedora on opensuse, or all at the same time because why not?
I’d try https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/ or https://vanillaos.org/ and install most apps as flatpaks. Vanilla is like ubuntu but you don’t mess with the underlying system. Atomic fedora is “the same” but with fedora style. Problems arise at the dev level, not the user level. It should be good to go on your system
Distro - System level stuff. A “type” of linux. Mint, Fedora, Arch, Ubuntu etc.
DE (Desktop environment) - Surface level stuff, i.e. how it looks, behaves, and often what default apps you use for basic stuff like text editing. Gnome, KDE, etc.
Distros have a default DE but often provide different versions using others for people who prefer them.
You likely won’t need to interact with any of that other stuff except flatpaks. Just think of it as a form of distributing and running software.
Ah so it’s just how the software works essentially
It’s more like, the distro is the actual “under the hood” OS and the DE is the looks and user interaction.
Ah that makes sense (i think)
Good point. I still use what it came with, gnome, but kde is more windows like
So I think I’ll look at mint then considering I have no idea what you mean by RPM files but app images ring a bell when I was getting yuzu set up on my steam deck
Definitely go Linux Mint. Especially if it’s your first time with Linux.
I was gonna try bazzite first any words of wisdom on it?
Yea, make sure you download the correct edition of Bazzite.
Is there multiple versions or something?
Yes, depending on your hardware.
I looked on the bazzite website and I’m assuming as long I select whatever hardware I’m using (or planning to use) I’ll get the correct version
Agreed here. On CPU side, don’t go with Intel 13th or 14 th gen, mostly due to the manufacturing defects, check gamers nexus on YouTube if you want to catch back up to speed, the new Intel stuff is fine manufacturing wise, terrible performance, check if the prices are good. GPU, NVIDIA usually has kinkier/ more annoying drivers, but if you want to play with AI or anything like that, NVIDIA is still better.
Seems like you’ve got a lot of distro recommendations haha which is good - go for one of those and you should be ok (I’m on mint for the record). My suggestion if you have a bit if extra money and less time is to buy a prebuilt system with linux already installed, tuxedo and system76 are two big names but I can’t comment on what to go with there.
However the advantage with buying an integrated system like that is that the hardware is all guaranteed and you can ring them for support if needed.
My other suggestion is to BACKUP your files!
I recently made the switch back to Linux, to Pop! OS, and I’ve never had such a smooth experience before. It’s currently using GNOME as its desktop environment, which I find a bit shit in general, but they’ve modified it enough so that it’s user friendly and intuitive. It has an “app store” as well that you can use to check for and run updates, search software etc. If you have a big screen, the window tiling function is awesome. Highly recommend you have a look at it!
