Mutual aid spam is becoming a problem on the Fediverse.
And to be sure, I’m not against mutual aid. What I am against is spam.
This person has not verified who she is – or even if the profile picture is hers. Additional research on her name states she is a scammer with a record of grifting. I am therefore skeptical that any donations will help anyone in need.
Folks, please be cautious with mutual aid requests. Yes, people sometimes need help. But people also lie.
“Mutual aid”? Is that what scammers are calling it now? What exactly is “mutual” about this interaction?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with creating a community where people who are struggling financially can ask for help or plug their GoFundMe or whatever, but allowing these guys to essentially cold call individuals with DMs/Mentions is unacceptable.
That’s not mutual aid that’s charity. Mutual aid is mutually beneficial to both parties.
Whoa, is this from Mastodon?
@[email protected] No, this account is specifically from Akkoma. I have also submitted posts from my Pixelfed account.
I can submit a post to Lemmy by mentioning the community handle in my post. Such is the magic of the Fediverse.
I can submit a post to Lemmy by mentioning the community handle in my post
That’s why I thought you came from Mastodon; they have the same feature.
@Feathercrown Actually, you can do that with any Fediverse service, not just Mastodon.
Yes…
I just mute all of them.
It may be my “3rd world syndrome” but to me, someone with internet access and a social media account who post regularly, is not in poverty. More likely a spambot.
My local beggar, in contrast, is a sincere person who tells me that he just want some cheap boxed wine or something to smoke. Refuses food or any kind of help. Cash only.
Not trying to change your mind on giving money to internet grifters but having a cell phone is pretty much a basic tool of survival these days even if you’re destitute. Phones more than a couple years old are basically e-waste and cost nothing or are donated/trashed all the time. Even a WiFi only phone can be the best tool someone has to find shelter, food and get important weather updates.
Even if it’s a recent phone, new flagship phones cost less than a month’s rent in many places. It’s not like phones are unattainable for homeless people.
it may be like that in the “third world”, but in western countries at least, if you don’t have a cell phone you are pretty much actively discriminated against. many government programs, not to mention utilities, require the use of a smartphone app. for example, my electric company requires one, as does my internet company. you can’t even begin service with my ISP if you don’t have an app.
if you live in the US, you’ll find it very difficult to even find a job without a cell phone, as most unemployment programs or job listings are done through apps these days. so the first thing any homeless person needs to acquire, is internet access and social media.
When I was homeless, I had a cell phone. It’s pretty hard to find work without one. And I don’t know if it’s still the case, but at that time if you are on any sort of government assistance you could get a phone paid for.
As it is really difficult to get out of poverty without one.
That sad, I don’t hand out money on lemmy. There are folks in my community I know need help too.
I mean, I know phones can be cheap or donated. And I also know that homeless people may have possessions that some consider “expensive”. It’s not that uncommon.
But constant internet connection needs monthly payments that, in my very personal and particular mindset, are not really compatible with “I’m a beggar. I need help”.
Having knowledge of the Fediverse it’s too niche for me, and the stories like “I can’t pay groceries!” almost every week are unlikely in a place where most of folks are tech workers. My spam-meter says that probably some people out there found the #mutualaid hashtag and are making some fake profiles and fake stories.
The plans can be super cheap compared to food and housing. A pretty poor person can still have consistent Internet now.
It’s not the affordability that makes these things almost certainly a scam, but they pretty much are almost certainly a scam anyway.
you can find plans for $15/mo. it’s not unreasonable for homeless people today to have a cell phone. even homies in prison have tiktoks.
Again, the phone and the service, at least, when I was homeless in 2019, was covered along with other social services such as SNAP and Medicaid.
And again, I completely agree about not handing money out online. Just disagreeing about homeless folks having accessibility to a phone or the internet. And Public libraries or anywhere with wifi (if you have a phone) are other options.
@atomicpoet @fediverse THX for putting this clearly on the table, I had this scepticism for some time already …
@regineheidorn @fediverse Yeah, people I know boosted her messages—which implies they may have given her money. The thing is, that grifter’s success is going to attract other grifters if this problem isn’t addressed.
@atomicpoet @fediverse Yes. And we know this from the early e-mail days already …
Yep I’ve already gotten a couple messages like this with an image of a random lady attached:
Hi, I’m Nicole! I’m a proud Polish girl from Toronto (29 y/o)
I’m currently taking the pre-health sciences program at George Brown College hoping to get into the medical field someday!
You can add me on Friendica: [REDACTED]
and join my discord here: [REDACTED]
I only ever got one. I feel so rejected!
😭 I didn’t get any. Why don’t Polish egirls like me?
I got one about an hour after I made my Mastodon account. found me pretty fucking fast.
Hi, I’m
Nicolewizardbeard! I’m aproudaromaticPolishAbyssalgirltube sock with googly eyes fromTorontothe space between your walls (29 y/o50 ft)I’m currently taking the
pre-health sciences program at George Brown Collegesocks from your dryer hoping toget into the medical fieldfind a broodmother for the spawn that will form the ranks of my holy army someday!You can’t add me on Friendica. It’s far too late for that. Far far too late for anyone to do anything to stop this.
Your socks may be returned to you but they may never be the same.
Isn’t asthma medication pretty cheap and long lasting? From what little I know an inhaler can last many months. Also if they can’t afford that, surely they have state medical insurance to help with it? Just seems so scammy.
depends on how often you have to use it. also, most states won’t give you insurance if you aren’t below the poverty level. if you have a full-time job, even if you’re barely making it paycheck to paycheck, you’re probably ineligible for medicaid.
my inhaler is $70 per month with insurance. though it’s a bit different from an albuterol inhaler, mine is a dry powder steroid thing, and it has a VERY short 30 day shelf life once opened.
was $10 last year with insurance, but of course that shit changes every year…
Wow that’s awful.
Also if they can’t afford that, surely they have state medical insurance
Ha! No, depending on the state, there are tons of barriers, means-testing, work requirements, mandated classes they might not be able to attend (due to childcare/lack of transportation), etc.
Even after the ACA, ER visits are still all the healthcare many people get.
I was just offered 500$ to be someone’s friend. Of course, I refused - my friendship is worth much more than that!
But it’s… concerning that we’ve got this sudden spike in spam.
…
What kind of friend are we talking about?
Tell them I’ll do it for $495
I’ll be their mate if they pay me £400.
The great thing about the fediverse is that it is harder to censor: as long as you find one instance where you can publish some information, you can publish it.
The bad thing about the fediverse is that it is also harder to moderate: as long as a spammer or troll finds one instance from which they can send unwanted messages, they will be able to send them.
In the long run, whitelisting may become the norm for federation instead of blacklisting.
And then we’re back to email.
@fediverse @atomicpoet Yep! Majority of them are questionable, even those who claim they were “manually” verified by some supposedly “well-known” person. Even in the ATmosphere network, it’s the same.
Like tumblr, “you don’t understand! 90-ghost says i’m real!!”
I don’t think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person, works OK for GoFundMe-type stuff like “I had something happen to me that will take a lot of money to fix”. Too easy to scam and grift for small stuff like this though, where for all you know they’re just a very clever dog on the internet.
I for one am not willing to feed a milk-bone addiction, no matter how good a boy he is.
I don’t think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person,
That can be an incredibly privileged position to be in to say. Some people are in situations so bad in their meatspace life that “the random internet” is actually more trustworthy.
It might be better for them but it’s not better for the internet strangers, now there is an unknown beggar in their space.
Charity is not the same as mutual aid anyways, even though I have also seen “mutual aid” requests on the Fediverse that were clearly asking for charity.
How would you differentiate the two?
Can you just tell me lmao i dont wanna read an essay
Mutual aid is a form of [collaborative] political participation in which people take responsibility for caring for one another and changing political conditions, not just through symbolic acts or putting pressure on their representatives in government but by actually building new social relations that are more survivable.
Charity comes with eligibility requirements that relate to these moral frameworks of deservingness, such as sobriety, piety, curfews, participation in job training or parenting courses, cooperation with the police, or identifying the paternity of children.
Nonprofitization has reproduced antidemocratic, racist, and colonial relationships between the winners and losers of extractive, exploitative economic arrangements.Well you asked a question with a complicated answer. Dean Spade is a prolific and respected writer and organizer, and his thoughts on the matter are relatively concise compared to the volumes upon volumes written by his predecessors in anarchist thought.
im curious about they differentiate it themselves as a person not how an academic defines it.
The title already gives it away 😜
it doesnt and its why i asked lol then i opened the link and saw its over 10 paragraphs
Mutual aide is mutual
@atomicpoet @fediverse I’m glad someone brought this up. I basically assume all mutual aid posts are fraudulent unless strictly verifiable.
There are needs and needs, I refuse to help a money begger unless is a close friend which I can control how is the best I can do for him, money being the last resource. Instead I always demand for social programs and services sustained by taxes to support those in real need (survival needs) unconditionally.
I would sleep much better if part of my tax contribution (together that of anybody in function of their resources) goes to grant the minimum for a “dignity survival” to any human being regardless of their returned contribution, with programs for reinsertion and mental support so they have the best chances to reach eventually a “dignity life”.
And, if still they cannot but just “survive” for the rest of their lives, I still want to fund it and give them the security to do it with dignity until the very end.
Donate those that provide something meaningful.
This is nothing, on hexbear there’s a person pretending to be like half a dozen different Palestinians with different fraudulent GoFundMe. They cook up a new persona like every other week using pictures they scrape from the media and then run it through an AI filter.
Same on Bluesky. And they are everywhere. Couple of years ago some accounts did this multiple times on Imgur. Even today occasionally some pop up again, but now the users are quick to call them out…with the admins doing jack shit. Which is classic for that site.
When coming across a sob story my knee jerk reaction is “bullshit”. If you want to give money to charity, do so through a reputable organisation. And don’t trust any rando on the internet.
Sorry but that’s just funny.
It’s like grifting Trump supporters.
Yep.
I feel the fediverse should lean towards “overly aggressive” when combatting spam, before it takes root, even with all the negatives that brings.
I agree. E-mail is the original federated service. And 50 years later e-mail spam remains a big problem. I hope Fedi projects can get spam mitigations on-par with email before spammers start getting serious about this place.
I’d argue that telephones are the original federated service. There were fits and starts to getting the proprietary Bell/AT&T network to play nice with devices or lines not operated by them, but the initial system for long distance calling over the North American Numbering Plan made it possible for an AT&T customer to dial non-AT&T customers by the early 1950’s, and set the groundwork for the technical feasibility of the breakup of the AT&T/Bell monopoly.
We didn’t call it spam then, but unsolicited phone calls have always been a problem.
What we really need (and have always needed) is an update to the legal frameworks that classify what networks are and what protections are in place for users to ensure interoperability. The Internet has been the wild west for too bloody long, and the extractors and their monopolies need to be put away. That’s why they have been so happy to jump in with Donny Diaper at this point, because he’s letting them not only continue with impunity, but bring back company scrip.
That’s why I think the history of the U.S. phone system is so important. AT&T had to be dragged into interoperability by government regulation nearly every step of the way, but ended up needing to invent and publish the technical standards that made federation/interoperability possible, after government agencies started mandating them. The technical infeasibility of opening up a proprietary network has been overcome before, with much more complexity at the lower OSI layers, including defining new open standards regarding the physical layer of actual copper lines and switches.
Yup. At least a decade ago I used to explain how important interoperability was to legislate for, and used this as the main example of why. Networks are better for everyone when there is no lock in, and the waste of competition for eyeballs could be avoided. It’s sad that most people truly don’t understand this.
Unfortunately, email solved the spam problem by becoming centralized AF. Now everything requires a “reputation”.
“Email solved the spam problem by becoming centralizing” yeah most of the spam I get is from gmail or has a reply-to header with gmail address
That’s just the spam that gets through! On my ancient ISP-provided email it’s primarily distributed via compromised accounts from the same provider. And what I see targeting the corporate world tends to come from newly setup email servers or newly setup accounts on paid email providers
