This is just a long-winded, inverted version of the aphorism about liberals’ paradoxical view of progressives; they’re a small, niche group, and the Democrats shouldn’t try to appease them because they’ll just alienate mainstream voters by courting this insignificant block of voters. However, progressives are somehow also a large, powerful cabal that can be blamed for every major Democratic loss.
Name one moment in history where abstaining from the bare mimimim to avoid catastrophic consequences results in a net gain.
I ask this because you’re trying to make this party thing where I’d title paring attention and reading for context- you’ll see clearly that It’s an ACTION thing.
Interesting that you went to progressives so quickly though. Especially since I never even mentioned the word.
Name one moment in history where abstaining from the bare mimimim to avoid catastrophic consequences results in a net gain.
Name a point where I said abstaining from voting was good. My point wasn’t that protest voting was good. It was that you could make the exact opposite point (with a lot fewer words) using your exact logic. Which means it’s not a good point.
I ask this because you’re trying to make this party thing where I’d title paring [you mean “try paying,” maybe?] attention and reading for context- you’ll see clearly that It’s an ACTION thing.
Again, fine, let’s make it an action thing. If the protest voters were so necessary to Harris’ election, why didn’t she take any actions to win them over? That was incredibly irresponsible of her.
Are you beginning to see how all your arguments can be flipped just as easily to place the blame on the candidate instead of the voters? Do you think maybe that’s because, even though you’ve convinced yourself that what your saying is cold, hard logic, your actually just screaming your opinions at people?
For the record, I voted for Harris out of harm reduction, and I wish she’d won. However, I believe that it is a candidates job to win an election, not the voters job to get them elected. If there was a significant contingent of voters withholding their vote, I think that candidate must have been doing a shitty job.
Interesting that you went to progressives so quickly though. Especially since I never even mentioned the word.
That says a LOT.
Yeah, it says I saw more than 2 minutes of political coverage in 2024, so I knew that Harris wasn’t getting criticism for being too progressive. Grow up.
Isn’t there some other comment out there that also has nothing at all to do with you that you can beat to death? Or is it too much effort for you to keep getting on and off of that high horse of yours??
Progressives could be the largest voting block and most still wouldn’t come out to vote. Why bother trying to gain the vote of a group that has historically low voting. There’s a reason Bernie didn’t win the primary despite massive grass roots movements.
“Study using self-reported data shows that those more interested in politics are more likely to self-report data with post-election surveys. More at 11.”
They literally say they are using self-reported post election surveys. Most people I know, including myself, have never done a post election survey. People that don’t vote also are not participating in post-election surveys. It’s an interesting study, but this is 100% textbook selection bias and I’m surprised Pew Research Center missed the mark on this one.
If progressives voted in overwhelming numbers, then Bernie would have won the primary. I voted for Bernie, but clearly not many others did.
Not that I should even have to debate this, since my my source is the Pew Research Center and yours is, “most people I know,” but that’s a blatant misrepresentation of the methodology. The survey uses data from a group of randomly selected panelists, not self-reported post-election surveys.
The American Trends Panel (ATP), created by Pew Research Center, is a nationally representative panel of randomly selected U.S. adults. Panelists participate via self-administered web surveys. …The ATP was created in 2014, with the first cohort of panelists invited to join the panel at the end of a large, national, landline and cellphone random-digit-dial survey that was conducted in both English and Spanish. Two additional recruitments were conducted using the same method in 2015 and 2017, respectively. Across these three surveys, a total of 19,718 adults were invited to join the ATP, of whom 9,942 (50%) agreed to participate.
The only reference to self-reporting I found was people self-reporting whether or not they voted, and even then, that was independently verified. I’m pretty sure you clicked the first link you saw, scrolled down until you found this paragraph, and didn’t read it very carefully:
Voter turnout and vote choice in the 2020 election is based on two different sources. First, self-reports of candidate choice were collected immediately after the general election in November 2020 (ATP W78). Secondly, ATP panelists were matched to commercial voter file databases to verify that they had indeed voted in the election. For more details, see “Behind Biden’s 2020 Victory.”
Also, if Bernie’s failure to win the Democratic primary proves progressives don’t vote, then it stands to reason that Clinton and Harris’ defeat proves that moderates don’t vote either, right? I mean, it seems stupid to me to make broad, sweeping generalizations about voter behavior over something that has as many variables as an election, but if that’s what you want to do, then you must concede that Harris and Clinton prove that moderates don’t vote.
Yup, it was not lost on me that this was essentially Eco’s 8th feature of fascism. Not that the Democrats are fascists; they don’t match most of the other features, especially 6 (I don’t think it’d ever occurred to them to appeal to anyone’s frustrations), but it seems liberals have at least borrowed this rhetorical attack to punch left.
I mean when you consider how much they benefit from Trump and his economic polices, it makes sense why they do. Not to meantion how many are some of the most bigoted people until its profitable enough. Scatch a liberal…
I mean, I tend to believe that they’re actually just a truly incompetent, cowardly bunch that are too afraid to fight and too stupid to realize that a party can’t simultaneously serve a working-class base and billionaire donors. That being said, I’ve been much more open to the controlled opposition theory since Schumer caved on the budget for no conceivable reason.
Then you’re clearly not who I’m talking about. I guess it’s either that simple reading comprehension is an issue for you, or you have a white knight complex.
One of the two- but my point remains untouched regardless.
I used “you” directed at you prior to knowing you voted. Did you not take this into consideration, or do you just have a problem with placing things in chronological order? Or is it that you did this intentionally?
Because- it does come off as you white knighting yourself into a discussion that wasn’t even directed at you with the intent to trap me into some little “gotcha” moment.
I’ve seen you pull this shit before. It doesn’t work like you think it does.
Because it doesn’t come off as you white knighting yourself into a discussion that wasn’t even directed at you with the intent to trap me into some little “gotcha” moment.
You literally replied to me saying that.
It’s a public fourm, anyone who comments is being added to the conversation. Jesus Christ.
I’ve seen you pull this shit before. It doesn’t work like you think it does.
So is this you at me or a nebulous other meaning “you” that only Rheori has in your personal dictionary?
This is just a long-winded, inverted version of the aphorism about liberals’ paradoxical view of progressives; they’re a small, niche group, and the Democrats shouldn’t try to appease them because they’ll just alienate mainstream voters by courting this insignificant block of voters. However, progressives are somehow also a large, powerful cabal that can be blamed for every major Democratic loss.
Name one moment in history where abstaining from the bare mimimim to avoid catastrophic consequences results in a net gain.
I ask this because you’re trying to make this party thing where I’d title paring attention and reading for context- you’ll see clearly that It’s an ACTION thing.
Interesting that you went to progressives so quickly though. Especially since I never even mentioned the word.
That says a LOT.
Name a point where I said abstaining from voting was good. My point wasn’t that protest voting was good. It was that you could make the exact opposite point (with a lot fewer words) using your exact logic. Which means it’s not a good point.
Again, fine, let’s make it an action thing. If the protest voters were so necessary to Harris’ election, why didn’t she take any actions to win them over? That was incredibly irresponsible of her.
Are you beginning to see how all your arguments can be flipped just as easily to place the blame on the candidate instead of the voters? Do you think maybe that’s because, even though you’ve convinced yourself that what your saying is cold, hard logic, your actually just screaming your opinions at people?
For the record, I voted for Harris out of harm reduction, and I wish she’d won. However, I believe that it is a candidates job to win an election, not the voters job to get them elected. If there was a significant contingent of voters withholding their vote, I think that candidate must have been doing a shitty job.
Yeah, it says I saw more than 2 minutes of political coverage in 2024, so I knew that Harris wasn’t getting criticism for being too progressive. Grow up.
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Wow. So witty and insightful. And it only took you 24 hours to come up with it. Amazing.
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Isn’t there some other comment out there that also has nothing at all to do with you that you can beat to death? Or is it too much effort for you to keep getting on and off of that high horse of yours??
LOL, you waited a full 24 hours to reply, “Yawn.” If you weren’t so thirsty for getting the last word in, we wouldn’t be talking right now.
Progressives could be the largest voting block and most still wouldn’t come out to vote. Why bother trying to gain the vote of a group that has historically low voting. There’s a reason Bernie didn’t win the primary despite massive grass roots movements.
Literally the opposite is true. People on the far-left and far-right are much more likely to vote than people in the middle.
“Study using self-reported data shows that those more interested in politics are more likely to self-report data with post-election surveys. More at 11.”
They literally say they are using self-reported post election surveys. Most people I know, including myself, have never done a post election survey. People that don’t vote also are not participating in post-election surveys. It’s an interesting study, but this is 100% textbook selection bias and I’m surprised Pew Research Center missed the mark on this one.
If progressives voted in overwhelming numbers, then Bernie would have won the primary. I voted for Bernie, but clearly not many others did.
Not that I should even have to debate this, since my my source is the Pew Research Center and yours is, “most people I know,” but that’s a blatant misrepresentation of the methodology. The survey uses data from a group of randomly selected panelists, not self-reported post-election surveys.
The only reference to self-reporting I found was people self-reporting whether or not they voted, and even then, that was independently verified. I’m pretty sure you clicked the first link you saw, scrolled down until you found this paragraph, and didn’t read it very carefully:
Also, if Bernie’s failure to win the Democratic primary proves progressives don’t vote, then it stands to reason that Clinton and Harris’ defeat proves that moderates don’t vote either, right? I mean, it seems stupid to me to make broad, sweeping generalizations about voter behavior over something that has as many variables as an election, but if that’s what you want to do, then you must concede that Harris and Clinton prove that moderates don’t vote.
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The enemy is both weak and strong. The progressives are too small to pay attention to their requests, but cost millions of votes.
Yup, it was not lost on me that this was essentially Eco’s 8th feature of fascism. Not that the Democrats are fascists; they don’t match most of the other features, especially 6 (I don’t think it’d ever occurred to them to appeal to anyone’s frustrations), but it seems liberals have at least borrowed this rhetorical attack to punch left.
I mean when you consider how much they benefit from Trump and his economic polices, it makes sense why they do. Not to meantion how many are some of the most bigoted people until its profitable enough. Scatch a liberal…
I mean, I tend to believe that they’re actually just a truly incompetent, cowardly bunch that are too afraid to fight and too stupid to realize that a party can’t simultaneously serve a working-class base and billionaire donors. That being said, I’ve been much more open to the controlled opposition theory since Schumer caved on the budget for no conceivable reason.
Oh progressives are definitely weak. But numerous. A simple bare minimum vote would have stopped ALL of this from happening.
But you couldn’t even do that. So yeah… weak as fuck if you ask me.
Then you’re clearly not who I’m talking about. I guess it’s either that simple reading comprehension is an issue for you, or you have a white knight complex.
One of the two- but my point remains untouched regardless.
You used you directed at me, replying to me, twice. That’s not confusing, that’s you deflecting because you have no argument.
I used “you” directed at you prior to knowing you voted. Did you not take this into consideration, or do you just have a problem with placing things in chronological order? Or is it that you did this intentionally?
Because- it does come off as you white knighting yourself into a discussion that wasn’t even directed at you with the intent to trap me into some little “gotcha” moment.
I’ve seen you pull this shit before. It doesn’t work like you think it does.
You literally replied to me saying that.
It’s a public fourm, anyone who comments is being added to the conversation. Jesus Christ.
So is this you at me or a nebulous other meaning “you” that only Rheori has in your personal dictionary?
LOL!
Wow. You aren’t good at this. Check where in the discussion you decided to reveal that you voted. Was it before, or after that?