I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
Really wish Fairphone would come to the US. I’d spend the money on it, but they only half-ass sold the last gen phone here on the US.
I don’t even understand why. They support most 4G and every mid and low band 5G in America. Even if I could just import it, I’d be happy.
I can send you one probably, but you know… tariffs (and processing fees).
I appreciate it, but I just got a new phone because I needed a new one recently. I wish it could have been something like a Fairphone, but thems the breaks.
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Unfortunately Telecomms in Australia seem to have a pissing contest on who can screw consumers more, America or Aussie companies.
Yup. I was interested in one as well, but they don’t really support US customers, so I ended up w/ a Pixel w/ GrapheneOS flashed.
I hope Graphene eventually shifts to support the fairphones. Doubtful, but it’d be perfect
If we could get a Fairphone with GrapheneOS, that would be the perfect phone for me. Repairability & the most secure and private Android. Sign me up!
Hows their secure boot?
No, it’s the other way around. Fairphone needs to implement the things Graphene requires.
Por que no los dos?
GrapheneOS can’t add hardware features to an existing phone. That’s why no los dos.
Sure, but once that’s in place, Graphene has to make efforts on their part. It’s not instantly compatible unless the hardware is exactly identical to a supported device. That’s the point I was making. I forget sometimes when being flippant that I have to explain every detail so that overly pedantic people can follow…my bad…
Sure. My point is that GrapheneOS can’t do much until Fairphone does their part.
This would’ve been my new phone if it had a headphone jack.
Yup I’ll stick with Xperia
I was trying so hard to buy one but Sony did not make them available at all in my country. The only way to buy an Xperia or a Zenfone 10 is through shady importer websites and you get no warranty.
Really sad they dropped it
From an environmental standpoint it doesn’t make any sense to drop it. More batteries, more e waste
They sell earbuds, that’s all you need to know why it doesn’t have a jack anymore.
Unfortunately it’s not available in the US though.
I have the fairphone 4 and have had no issues. As long as a fairphone exists I don’t see any reason I should switch.
Do you use their OS?
Have you had to replace any parts yet?
I had to replace parts on my FP5. It fell on very bad asphalt at speed whilst cycling in a foreign country. The glass on the camera modules scattered. Display protector broke and the case got some good damage. I was instantly calmed realising it is a FairPhone and knowing I could order replacement parts.
Repairs were trivial and it feels good to have created just a tiny amount of e-waste instead of a large amount. The black aluminium case has some war wounds (scratches) reminding me of the trip.
Knowing it’s so easy to repair, do you think it’s worth bothering with a case and/or screen protector?
I don’t bother with a case for this reason, haven’t broken anything so far. Just replaced the battery a couple times.
Depends on the use.
The screen protector serves as a blue light filter too, it’s cheaper than a display, and fairly thin. That’s a straightforward addition for my use but if you don’t have issues with your phone dropping then you could certainly do without.
I very much dislike cases and loved the PH-1 for stating that a phone should be solid enough without a case (sadly it did not survive a 50cm drop on a floor so it did not hold up in practice). If you don’t have much issues with your phone dropping then not having a case makes it so much nicer.
I take more risk holding my phone than I should which means it falls more than average. The price I have to pay is a screen protector and cover. Replacing the display should be easy, but it’d also be wasteful.
You defentently need a case for the FP5. Without its very slippery.
I’d likely use a case in this instance. I remember dropping the Pixel 5 several times for that reason.
If you hate cases so much, sure. But why create e waste and waste your money when you can avoid that by using a case?
FWIW, I have the FP3 for now more than 4 years. I have only replaced the battery 6 months ago. A case would have been extra waste (to produce the case itself) in my case, and probably will be trashed after as it might not fit the next phone.
If you can keep it safe then cool. I cannot take that risk as my current screen protector is already cracked a little within a year lol.
I wish they could implement the parts of the Pixel phones that allow GrapheneOS to be used.
I mean, you could use CalyxOS
It dosent have such things as 2 factor pin auth for fingerprint, but its the closest to Graphene
Not quite the same. The big thing with GrapheneOS is it can run the actual Google services, but sandboxed. Organic Maps is better than Google Maps in everyway, but it’s routes are so much worse because it has no traffic into to go on. It’s an anticompetitive network effect, but it’s hard to fight without law makers.
Edit: Ok, it is good, but the main thing I like about is the maps can be setup to be as good as ones you’d manually navigate by. A bit like UK’s Ordnance Survey maps.
Organic Maps is better than Google Maps in everyway
It’s really not, here are a few more:
- no reviews for businesses - that’s a huge reason people use Maps
- you have to manually download maps you want to see, and repeat w/ every update
- lots of missing info, especially where I live, and especially businesses
- no satellite images or street view - OSM has it though
That said, I use Organic Maps almost exclusively, and I put in the time to add missing info where I can. I’ve probably added hundreds of places for my area. Basically, when I go somewhere new, if it’s not in OSM, I take a few pictures and add the place when I get home, and I’ll put in the effort to enter hours, phone number, etc from their website. It’s a pain, but hopefully someone down the line appreciates that.
All of that info exists in GM though, so the only reason for me to use OM is stubbornness. OM is fantastic, but it’s hardly “better than Google Maps in every way,” in fact it’s probably worse in most ways. However, I prefer it and will keep using it because I refuse to use Google services.
Ok, I accept all that, but the maps just are better to me. I grew up with the UK Ordnance Survey maps, and that’s kind of what I want from my maps.
I’ll amend.
What parts are these? I’ve always wondered what this was about, why the pixel was the only phone that could support GrapheneOS
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
So, graphene could be put on those phones if the devs wanted to do it, but it would be less secure since the bootloader would remain unlocked.
Also, supporting a small line a phones is probably infinitely easier than a range, of devices, but it would be nice to have another option. Especially now that the Fairphone pice is reasonable.
The Fairphone can be locked after flashing a custom rom. /e/-OS is officially supported. You can even buy it from them with /e/ preinstalled. iode-OS also works. I don’t know about Graphene OS, but tbh, I don’t see the benefit of Graphene OS for the average user. /e/ has built in privacy features, is google-free and runs MicroG as alternative to Google Play Services. Most apps run fine. You can even use your apps that you purchased from the PlayStore.
I’ve been using Fairphone 5 with /e/-OS for over a year and love it.
/e/ has built in privacy features
/e/ uses a for profit 3rd party for unencrypted backups. That alone should be a big red flag.
is google-free and runs MicroG
So it runs google. MicroG just limits what data is sent to google.
You can even use your apps that you purchased from the PlayStore.
You can do the same with aurora store. That’s available on just about every phone.
You can do the same with aurora store. That’s available on just about every phone.
not if the app attempts to verify its license through the play store. you need microg for that, or patch it
Well even graphene os still runs a version of Android. So there is still some goggle code in that. But ripping oit google play, amd various goggle services means goggle doesn’t track you with those. Yeah if you still ise gmail and log into toutube every day they will.
there is still some goggle code in that.
But that code is open source, and it has been verified that it dosent track you.
It a perfectly usable Android for the average user. Everything works out of the boy. If it is not for you, fine. Buy a Pixel.
for the average user.
So we are talking about an average user, who
- fully understands the appeal of a degoogled Phone
- Willingly spends extra money for a fairphone
- is able to migrate away from google services to /e/'s services
- Is willing and able to troubleshoot any problems that MicroG has
- is willing to fix not working banking apps
- but somehow can’t use a simple web installer from Calyx
Tell me, is this average user in the room with us right now?
Everything works out of the boy.
So does (and does not) with Calix or Graphene
Buy a Pixel.
I think you don’t get what I’m talking about.
-It takes a base level of understanding why you would buy a Fairphone (or any degoogled phone)
- it takes a base level of understanding phones to be able to use a degoogled one
- If you already have that knowledge, you might as well just take an extra 5 minutes and use the web installer for calyx since it is literally the same AND has less vendor lockin than /e/
Edit: You want an average user friendly ROM? Just use Lineage for gods sake.
In 4 years I have never (and will never) used any service from /e/. There is no vendor lock whatsoever. That’s fully optional.
Points 3, 4 and 5 in your list are moot IMHO.
Also
It takes a base level of understanding why you would buy a Fairphone
It doesn’t really. “Phone is repairable and X can help me”, “they pay the makers fair wages” are not really complex value propositions that require some (technical) understanding.
The point of /e/ and similar distributions is that you can buy a phone with it (average user will never reflash) and just have a phone that doesn’t use Google (it does, for the amount that doesn’t require you to do extra technical stuff and have a sane user experience at the same time).
That said, calyx seems a great alternative and so are iode. I think the advantages of one over the other (for my brief search) are quite small.
Exactly. Even if I wanted /e/, I would re-flash when I got it, because the reason I want /e/ is because I don’t trust the OEM.
It’s the same way with desktops, I see zero value in buying a laptop w/ Linux pre-installed because I’m just going to reinstall when I get it anyway.
e-OS is said to have the worst security of pretty much all Android distributions. Dunno if this is a fact, but apparently the upgrade schedules are not great.
They are usually a month behind
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
That is not the case. SHIFTmq, Motorola and Fairphone allow the bootloader to be relocked with a custom rom. There are many requirements the Fairphone lacks for GrapheneOS, but relocking the bootloader is not one of them.
Thanks! I guess what I read before was either old or just wrong.
https://www.kuketz-blog.de/weshalb-grapheneos-aktuell-nur-google-pixel-geraete-unterstuetzt/
(From an Interview - The relevant parts are in English)
Security seems not easy.
I really want this to come to the US as well…
Is this phone also more secure?
The problem we are running into right now is Apple and Google are colluding with the US government over fascism and they are supporting their Nazi regime
They have all the power and they can change all of these services overnight, they can track you and everything and you will have no idea and no way to get rid of it
We really need an open replacement. Phones are now used for everything
I used a Fairphone 4 with /e/ and it was good. Not great, but useable. I expect the hardware bugs I ran into (using the camera only worked like 20 times before the phone needed a restart, Bluetooth randomly not working) to be ironed out by now. Currently on an old Samsung and it is more solid, but I also liked the environmentalism with the fairphone. Anyone with a Fairphone 5 and something like a glucose sensor thats in constant use?
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Well yeah, because why would phone companies care? Consumers buy devices based on camera and display quality, not for security, privacy, etc. I just had a chat w/ a coworker about a Chinese device with an incredible camera and big battery, and I highly doubt it does anything but the bare minimum for security. It’s a cool piece of hardware, but a no-go for anyone that cares even a little about security updates.
I have a Pixel device because it has a long SW support cycle (Google promises at least 7 years), and I use GrapheneOS because it removes Google’s spyware crap. I’m not married to GrapheneOS or Pixel devices, I just need something where the software support will last at least longer than my desire to keep the device (about 4-5 years for me). I’ve ditched each of my last phones largely because they ran out of security update support, and that sucks.
I’d prefer a Linux phone w/ decent security features, but they don’t meet my minimum standards for things working (just need phone features to work properly, don’t need apps). The moment a Linux phone comes out than actually works properly and has reasonable security, I’ll switch. The FairPhone could be that, but it’s not, so I don’t have one.
Not only that, it’s really really hard to leave the app ecosystem. Anything that has an alternative basically has to run Android apps as well
I mean with smart homes and all the various apps, it becomes really hard to switch phones even. Even your bank app
ass stock operating system, no macro lens, shit battery, still overpriced. you are better off with a refurbished pixel with a custom os.
im still not sure the whole business thing is a just a greenwashing scam or not.
on the other hand the battery can just be popped out, has a cool semitranspaerant early 00s design.
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why does a poor stock os matter if you will replace it anyway? did the same thing on day one
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Well even if the manufacturing of the phone is no greener, replaceable battery is still greener.
im still not sure the whole business thing is a just a greenwashing scam or not.
What does “greenwashing” actually mean to you? None of your criticisms are related to the environment.
Only 400€ to go until I can afford it.
I would totally be interested if they had solid Linux support, such as postmarketOS or mobian. Those systems continue to get updates long after most Android devices stop supplying updates, so it would fit really well with a repairable phone. It shouldn’t be the default, but it would be awesome if they helped the Linux phone community make it the best supported hardware for the various Linux phone projects.
According to the postmarketOS wiki, audio is completely broken, so you have to use Bluetooth. That kind of sucks.
Anyone know what the bootloader unlock process is like for Fairphone? I know they support it, but does it take 7 days like OnePlus or constantly have issues like Motorola?
Wait the Fairphone has a locked bootloader? The mind wobbles.
Else anyone with physical access can install spyware without anyone noticing. Thats a bit of security which most people probably won’t notice but can be deactivated in a minute by any owner, so I don’t mind.
First thing I did on my Fairphone 4 was to flash iode OS on it.
I don’t know much about bootloaders and such, but I was done and happy within an hour after purchasing it.
Also, if I am not mistaken, I think warranty is still valid if you run custom ROMs.
Fairphone is very pro openness 😄
They have a howto on their support page
https://www.fairphone.com/en/bootloader-unlocking-code-for-fairphone/
And i just tested it, you get the unlock code immediately.
Oh, nice. That was my question. I wish it didn’t require a code at all, but at least you don’t have to wait a week like some other manufacturers. Thanks!
I don’t understand why this requires a code rather than a toggle in developer settings like a Pixel. That doesn’t seem like openness and a commitment to treating users fairly since they could change their policy at any time.
I’ve read that it’s because fairphone has to pay a fee for each unlocked device, but it sounds a little weird so no idea if that’s real.
but, it can be worked around if you don’t want to get logged. the system just wants a 200 OK response from the server, I think through HTTP (not S), so you can set up an MITM proxy or custom DNS and web server to always give this response without using their website. that’s what I did too.
you can read more here: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/oem-unlock-input-verify-code/56231
edit: and also here: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/unlocking-bootloader-offline/95573
and the connection is actually HTTPS, but does not validate it against a globally trusted root certificate, so it can easily be served by a local server and a self signed cert
I’ve read that it’s because fairphone has to pay a fee for each unlocked device, but it sounds a little weird so no idea if that’s real.
The posts seem to suggest that Google is charging them a fee in that case, but that would be a little surprising given Pixels have a no-fuss unlock, and Google permits third parties to redistribute its proprietary add-ons to Android free of charge for installation by end users.
In any case, you’ve convinced me this probably isn’t Fairphone being evil, though some sort of public explanation would be nice.
No headphones jack.
Trash generating hypocrites.
HMD are doing everything better than fair phone now with their latest models. More repairable, more flexible, long term support and updates.
Cheaper too.
No headphones jack.
Most people use bluetooth devices nowadays. Few have wired headphones, which they can still use by using a €2 adapter that you just leave plugged to them all the time. Then there is a 0,1% that complains on the internet demanding that phone companies keep a extra hole on their devices for a specific purpose another hole can already do. Oh and HMD phones don’t have it either, at least for what i could find.
More repairable
They seem about the same (glass, back, speaker, battery, port), but on the ff5 you can replace the cameras as well.
more flexible
Tf does that mean? You can bend it?
long term support and updates.
Liar? Fairphones have like 8 years of security updates and major android version upgrades. HMD gives like 3 years on their latest devices… What are you talking about?
Cheaper too.
I’ll give you that, but it really ends there.
HMD phones are not a bad choice at all but if the affordability isn’t first in the list I don’t see how they would make a better purchase over a Fairphone.
I don’t know anything about HMD so I can’t add to that. However I’d like to correct you regarding the headphone jack. The people that like it so much are generally privacy enthusiasts. Leaving your Bluetooth on makes you easily trackable. Using USB-C headphones helps in that regard but expediates wear and tear on the port by a lot and often makes the phone unusable a lot quicker, because you obviously need it for charging. Audio jacks generally have very low wear and tear. Hope that helps you understand we’re not crazed evangilists hanging on to the past for the sake of it.
expediates wear and tear on the port by a lot
How much is a lot? And good thing the usb-c port is a $15 user replaceable part then. Also dongles with two connectors exist if you specifically want to charge and use headphones at the same time.
so everybody who wants to use 3.5mm headphones on phones should just replace their port every quarter? lmao
Every quarter? This is why I asked what was meant by ‘a lot’. If you’re going to claim that the extra wear caused would be this extreme I’d like for that to be at least somewhat substantiated.
I can only substantiate my claims with my own experience after buying a new phone. I believe my last two were jackless, and in both cases it got impossible to use the usbc port for listening to audio on the go in like a month or two (constant disconnects). Now this doesnt impact charging (resting position) but its absolutely impossible for me to use in ears on the go (usbc), so id go another step and say its just plain useless.
having only one battery that needs to be charged, one way to get the headphones disconnected (unplugging), and the greatly reduced battery drain by not needing Bluetooth on should be good enough reasons for 3.5mm jacks to stay.
idc about hmd, but usbc for audio is just shit. Ive tried various setups, I have a dac for phones, i have iems with usbc and yet the port is just not constructed for usage on the go where i preferably use in ears. So in total: aux got taken, instead we use the charging port and if we actually do that the ports gonna be dead in a year maximum if you havent aldready ripped apart your in ears because of these darn constant disconnects. I do have wiems that are more expensive than my iems and yet bluetooth audio transmission still sucks compared to cables and I long for the moment where i finally have a phone with aux again so my ears dont have to constantly bleed (wildly exaggerated obv). Last time i almost bought a Sony because of aux, but theyre just way too expensive for the software support they deliver. I just hope in a few years time theres a value phone built for me :).
Another hole can carry analogue audio? I think you’re referring to a USB port when you say “another hole can do the same job”, but obviously it can’t carry analogue audio. You need an external DAC to convert the digital audio it can output, to analogue. (The phone already has an internal DAC so this is dumb)
And then of course you run into the issue of being unable to use it while the phone is charging because you have 1 port for 2 different jobs
Not all of us like the idea of wireless earphones, there are still many who prefer to spend good money on nice IEMs or headphones that don’t have to be charged to work, rather than overly expensive, subpar wireless options that will inevitably turn into e-waste when the batteries can no longer hold a charge.
Not to mention the ubiquity of the 6.5mm/3.5mm jack, this is standard across every piece of music gear you can think of from synthesizers to electronic drum kits to guitars, pedals, and interfaces.
You certainly don’t walk into a recording studio and find USB C ports to plug into
long term support and updates.
Three years of security upgrades is very bad, in my opinion. Google offers seven years, and Fairphone offers eight.
HMD are doing everything better than fair phone now with their latest models.
How much are the factory workers paid? Where are the raw materials sourced? What percentage is recycled? What work is HMD doing to change the industry?
Are HMDs really more repairable? Most recent phone they had that tried to be repairable was Skyline and even there it was pretty limited. And btw that one didn’t have a jack either.
Please get through the FCC and open sales in the USA before Fairphone 6 is made.
I really don’t want to buy another unrepairable phone.
I’m waiting on a Framework Phone.
Do you really think they’ll make one?
Yes eventually they will. Might be still 5 years away tho
I hope so, and I hope they make it compatible with regular Linux, like postmarketOS or Mobian. Make sure all the core phone features work properly (calls, SMS/MMS, data, audio, sensors, etc), then let the Linux community go nuts on it.
I’d pay a premium for that, and I’d probably pick up a Framework laptop as well. I currently use an old Thinkpad (circa 2018), and I’m trying to make that last until Framework has an option for a 13-14" laptop with insane battery life (ARM or RISC-V is probably fine), or at least has a keyboard that has a Trackpoint and physical mouse buttons like my Thinkpad. But if they make a phone, I might just lower my standards a bit to keep everything in the family.
Out of curiosity… how is doing that in 2025?
Probably don’t want to play graphics heavy games on it. For everything else it’s pretty much like any other phone. Although of course it’s not quite as premium as flagship phones. Hardware wise, a Pixel 8 leaves it in the dust. But you can’t swap your battery or really anything on that one.
I am happy with it.
A firmware update from Fairphone bricked mine last year. Not impressed. Apparently it’s happened to a lot of people who went to an alternative OS (Lineage) then back to stock. I just woke up one day to a paperweight on my bedside table and the support was horrendous: it took over six weeks to get any response and after another month of back-and-forth with responses taking a couple of days at a time I ended up just claiming on insurance.
i got a 4 a few years back and it’s still works great, still gets security updates. it still has the default android on it, so i’ve been looking into alternatives but it seems complicated. then again, i managed to switch to linux on pc so maybe it’s not so bad
Its fine, I haven’t noticed any slowdown yet, the main issue right now is that there was a screen problem that caused the OLED pixels to stay on when a black screen was present. They removed the AoD while they fix it, they’ve fixed it a few months back, but we still don’t have AoD.
I haven’t noticed any slowdown yet
?? Confused with Windows?
No? People complain that mid to low range chips on android become unable to do everyday tasks overtime. My friend has a Samsung midranger that started out smooth, but now he complains about it and after handling it I see what he means, animations are choppy and app loading is slow, sadly making it no longer useable for him.
Android not liking slow devices anymore is something i know from my Kobo Leaf. But it getting slower? Is this limited to “Android” with Google Play Store devices?
About the animations, there’s a setting in developer options to shorten or entirely disable them.
