Makes me feel a lot bettter about losing high quality men such as Jagmeet Singh and Jonathan Pedneault!
Oh no, did Jagmeet lose his seat too? I’m a liberal but Jagmeet is a good guy, didn’t deserve that.
He did, and he’s stepping down as party leader. Personally, I think it’s a good thing. His leadership has been far too soft and cuddly. The NDP need a leader who will channel the anger a lot of Canadians are feeling at watching their quality of life get sold off to oligarchs.
Best for him to step down. Let’s not confuse my subjective fondness for the guy with his objective failure as NDP leader.
I’m just spit-balling here, but is it totally off the table to dig up Jack Layton and elect him in some kind of “Weekend at Bernie’s” type shenanigan?
I’m hoping someone can convince Charlie Angus to unretire and make a run for leader.
Heck yeah!
Charlie Angus for PM!
We have a better option. Wab Kinew!
Also Nenshi.
It’s kinda funny that I think if the eras of Muclair and Singh were swapped around they’d be doing much better.
I really like Singh. He is a GOOD man. A GOOD leader. I want to be at a party with him in the room. But I agree, he wasn’t the factor in his fate. The centre left sacrificed the NDP for the libs because of the US. Strategic voting worked. If they hadn’t this would have been a conservative win. It’s acceptable because the alternative is disastrous.
Singh’s cuddlyness was probably trying to follow Le Bon Jacque’s lead. Fluffy warm and cuddly via Layton got the NDP some big successes and bigger hopes until tragedy struck.
I’m more worried about the next election. A minority in a time of great struggle won’t go full term. I give this around 3 years. The libs can’t win the next, no one goes 5 terms in a row.
Lets assume the Cons take the next, and the NDP get a bounceback from extreme liberal fatigue. Does the NDP need Hope or Anger? I’m not sure, but we saw a lot of rural areas be two way con/ndp. These areas would probably respond to channeled anger. Flip a few blue to Orange.
I don’t think hope and anger are a binary choice. As the saying goes, you have to hate something to change it.
I want an NDP that brings hope to people who are angry, by sharing in their anger and pain, and offering a way forward. Those things can build on each other.
Removed by mod
Can’t agree! Muclair and Singh moved so far to center they destroyed the party. Not just my words, the party removed all reference to socialism from the party constitution.
It was a strategy that made a half-assed amount of sense during the years where the Liberals were struggling. Canadians (particularly Ontario) seems to like their politics roughly center. So if you want to supplant the Liberals as the main party representing the Left, you can’t be too far left. Same thing happens to the Conservatives. Every time they drift too far right to appease the Alberta crowd, they start losing the Ontario suburbs.
Plus, “socialism” is still a bad word for most of the older population. You can get rid of the word, change none of the policies, and that will be enough to keep the “socialism bad” crowd happy.
This is how the Overton window shifts right. Socialists need to be louder and more visible than ever.
I can’t disagree with your overview of why it happened, except with policy it’s not just removing scary words. And really the shift started under Layton, I should be accurate. Tbf he did almost win with that strategy. Fuck cancer.
It’s beautiful
Nice hair
Thoroughly hilarious. Go away Chode boy, nobody likes you!
A very important thing to remember this election: The Conservatives had a 30-point lead and were set to gain over 200 seats in a sweeping majority victory and they blew it. They blew it and their leader lost his own seat. The fact we even have a Liberal minority at all is incredible.
So while the Conservative party still has a lot of seats, enough Canadians disliked PP and his campaign enough to erode a 30 point lead. PP says he is staying on as party leader but his party would be incredibly foolish to keep him. His campaign cost them a historical election victory and the dude can’t even get elected in his own riding.
Trump won the election for the liberals more than anyone else.
Nah, the Liberals deserve the bigger credit. I don’t necessarily think they could have won without Trump shitting the fan for Conservatives but their actions created the necessary conditions for the win: 1) Drop Trudeau; 2) Don’t pick Freeland, pick a white middle age man from the finance industry; 3) Get rid of the consumer carbon pricing; 4) Focus on the economy instead of progressive values. Without any of these, it would have been a CPC win even with Poilievre wearing a MAGA hat.
pick a white middle age man from the finance industry
“We won! What did we win? … fuck, shit.”
Focus on the economy instead of progressive values
What happens when the black hole of an American recession sucks Canada down along with it in another few years?
American liberals played the same game in 2020. They got four years of Biden. Everyone hated it. And then they sent Trump back up into office like '17-'21 never happened.
American liberals played the same game in 2020. They got four years of Biden. Everyone hated it. And then they sent Trump back up into office like '17-'21 never happened.
Carney has a few advantages over Biden: he is actually liked by true Liberals (so far), he’s not senile and landed the job just because he had decades in the party (on the contrary, he has that outsider business-man status that the middle class loves), and he has a nationalist movement timed nicely for him.
That said, it’s still true that…
What happens when the black hole of an American recession sucks Canada down along with it in another few years?
if this tariff bullshit intensifies, Canada will face a recession under Carney and the country will turn to a conservative government - one that will open the doors for American imperialism, bails out corporations, and cuts services that would save lives of the people that will end up in the streets after losing their jobs. I find it very unlikely that this minority liberal government would survive a significant economic downturn, regardless of who would be in charge of it.
he is actually liked by true Liberals
:-/
he’s not senile
:-)
he has that outsider business-man status that the middle class loves
🤮 I have never actually seen a “business-man” candidate that does well on the merits above the office of mayor. Even then, “business guy” mayors tend to be some of the most shamelessly corrupt and despicable people to touch the office.
But I guess he’s one-for-three, which is better than Biden.
I find it very unlikely that this minority liberal government would survive a significant economic downturn, regardless of who would be in charge of it.
The nature of liberal politics is knowing you’re on a pendulum ride and making the best of whatever time you’ve got. Far too often, I see liberals insist they can ride the pendulum through the conservative arc by just pretending at conservative politics for a few years and then going back to being liberals again a few years later. Conservatives, by contrast, leap at the chance to inject every right-popular policy they can when they’re in office and then scream about obstructionism as they lose popular support.
The consequence of these two strategies executed in cycle is a country that keeps getting ratcheted to the right by degrees. A country - like America - was broadly on board with gay rights and carbon caps and universal public health care and public university education twenty years ago. Now we’re obliterating elementary schools, green-lighting coal ash dumping, and hunting transgender people for sport.
If Carney is going to waste the next few years, Canada is going to be even more fucked for his nominal victory than the UK is looking as it goes into a 28% Reform Party cycle.
Indeed. We dodged the bullet but we’re still sliding downhill. The time for conservatives is coming, unfortunately. I just hope that the next time the pendulum swings back, we get some electoral reform done and more modern and sturdy guardrails to soften the next round.
Still, I daydream myself into hope and into action. No one knows what’s coming long term, so I imagine progress. That’s the only way I can function instead of growing apathetic out of despair. Next cycle I’ll be here once more, campaigning ABC.
Electoral reform is one of very few things – possibly the only thing – that could actually avert this otherwise inevitable result. If Carney delivers on housing and pulls an economic miracle out of the hat I’ve never seen him wearing, we’ll maybe defer payment for another election cycle, maybe two.
We probably don’t have that long to stop systematically pitting left and center against each other, paving the way for a worse outcome that represents fewer Canadians than ever before.
But what leader would do better for the party? PP had initially focused on being anti-Trudeau because his party’s policies weren’t going to win. Then, his party got fucked by being associated with Trump and PP tried to keep Trump out of the election.
PP got beat, but he played his political hand relatively well.
My personal belief is that the reason Trudeau resigned is because the Liberal Party got a political consultant to determine what would get the party to a win, and determined that the party needed a more traditional business focused leader to get the win, and that they needed to pick someone with a good image overall. I think where the conservatives failed is picking a pretty faceless generic conservative who is not very accessible and does the old Harper trick of two questions only, and doesn’t even seem to like anything or anybody in Canada very much, and there was no love in particular for the leader, just the Fuck Trudeau crowd banging their endless gong. I think the trouble they have as a party is that none of their members in particular have an appealing personality that connects with people at all, or reflects traditional Canadian values or make anything in the country better, they just gripe about what the Liberals do and try to block it. I do not think many people connect with the empty suits that their party consists of, just angry, stupid or old people who want things to go back in time vote for them, or greedy rich people hoarding wealth.
Unless they get a personable candidate and stay away from social issues like abortion, LGBT issues and the golden calf of health care, they’ll never go anywhere. A tide of ignorance is not going to sway undecided voters, and I think if Canadians have their values threatened we retreat to the safety of the Liberals. I don’t think they have anyone like that in their party at all who could lead, and I don’t think they’re savvy enough to attract someone like that.
his party got fucked by being associated with Trump
They fucked themselves by associating with Trump and America’s conservadorism.
Yeah, but what else did they have?
I think it doesn’t matter because it’s never policies that win their game but bullshit. They will have something else,absolutely mundane and replaceable next time.
I’ll do it. I’m a straight white married man. Business owner with a finance background. I’m also very left wing. I’m the perfect Manchurian candidate.
Happy that the Trump presidency could at least contribute one positive outcome.
PP says he is staying on as party leader but his party would be incredibly foolish to keep him. His campaign cost them a historical election victory and the dude can’t even get elected in his own riding.
You’re not thinking like a Conservative MP. Yess PP lost the run for PM and humiliatingly lost his riding, but overall the party grew in influence and in number of seats tremendously under his leadership. We’re now closer to a two party system, and Conservatives benefit from this tremendously. CPC ate the PPC. I’m 100% sure that they’re chucking this loss to bad luck with Trump timing, they had to reinvent themselves in 3 months. With 2 years of planning (and bootlicking down south), they’ll be better prepared and Poilievre is their winning strategy. In this cycle, the CPC successfully FPTP’ed the NDP and the Greens out of existence. They’re well positioned to a minority govt with Bloc in a few years.
Yess PP lost the run for PM and humiliatingly lost his riding, but overall the party grew in influence and in number of seats tremendously under his leadership.
I agree the Conservatives have grown in influence but I don’t believe it was because of Poilievre. It doesn’t matter who leads the conservative party, the Canadian pendulum was due to swing back to the Cons, he dropped the ball hard, and probably still would have won if it wasn’t for Trump slapping Canada in the face and waking a bunch of us up. Any influence gained was because it was “their turn”, not Poilievre’s leadership.
The question is, did the Conservatives come close to winning because of Poilievre, or did they lose a sure thing because of him? Based on what things looked like 6 months ago, I’d say the latter.
Yeah, I don’t think people wanted Poilievre specifically. They just wanted change.
the Canadian pendulum was due to swing back to the Cons
Sure, for the opposition leader it’s a matter of adding or removing momentum to the pendulum swing. He definitely added a lot of momentum, to the point that the Liberals had to throw the PM and its climate policy under the bus to get one more term. That’s a hell of an effective opposition leader.
Any influence gained was because it was “their turn”, not Poilievre’s leadership.
I’m not saying that he’s a genius or anything, but making good use of your “turn” is not an easy task. He has demonstrated that he’s good at it, to the point of landslide victory projections 6 months ago.
would have won if it wasn’t for Trump slapping Canada in the face
And that’s exactly why it’s going to be easy to brush off his loss. Sure, he’ll face criticism on his failure to pivot the party messaging post-Trudeau, but that was a nearly impossible situation. Would any other CPC MP have done a better job of riling up the conservatives against the Liberals without in the end get blindsided by anti-republican sentiments? Jamil Jivani? I don’t see any reason to believe the CPC will have a better shot with someone else.
If they do end up booting Poilievre out of the leader seat, it will be because the CPC is a bucket of selfish snakes and lizards vying for power. It is possible. Surely someone is salivating at this opportunity. I just find it unlikely, because the vast majority of MPs are satisfied with his work and will simply bide their time, they’ll be better prepared in two years.
Look at the polling. When asked which party people preferred (ignoring leadership) the CPC had way more support than when leadership is considered.
Did you notice the CPC ads in the last week and a half didn’t have PP in them? It’s obvious to everyone (including CPC strategists) that PP drug down the CPC. If the CPC didn’t even have a leader, they would’ve won. But PP led them to defeat.
But I’m not a Conservative, so if half of the CPC wants to remain faithful to PP, I’ll get out my popcorn and enjoy the CPC civil war that’ll happen if PP refuses to step aside.
I disagree that he is effective in anything other than being not Trudeau and being a contrarian in the American conservative mold. If he was at all a good politician he would not have fumbled this election the way he did. The liberals made some good plays but if PP had spent one minute reading the room instead of playing party over country he might have been PM.
If he manages to hang around until the next one he will probably get in when the left splits again but it won’t be because he’s good at his job it will be because he has a pulse and a name on the ballot under conservative.
I am a fan. I have joy.
So crazy that the Conservative Party still has 144 seats given that they’ve basically signed on to a policy of foreign occupation.
Feels like I’m watching liberated France send Philippe Pétain back in as the Loyal Opposition with 40% of the vote.
The conservatives still turned out a lot of votes. The left just voted strategically to keep them out. Next election the left will split again and we will get the conservatives again. Given the parties recent history even if it isn’t Poilievre I’m sure they will pick another alt right sycophant.
Not if we have ranked choice voting with proportional representation.
Ranked choice doesn’t make sense in a proportional representation system.
It does if you still want to have a local representative, although everything seems to be party politics these days.
I’d be happy enough with proportional representation, though.
@SpaceCowboy @sik0fewl Proportional RCV does indeed exist https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/proportional-ranked-choice-voting/
What’s the difference between that and STV?
Next election the left will split again and we will get the conservatives again.
Rather than settling for the investment banker, they could all rally around a candidate that’s interested in social good.
The Left doesn’t have to split.
The left has to get their shit together before that can happen. Right now the left cares more about purity tests over being effective.
People are gonna hate this but here it is…
From my point of view as a disabled Canadian with a young family, who is close to many members of the local first Nations community, the left is as fascist as the right.
They treat minorities and disabled people like chattel. We live in poverty and are actively pursued if we attempt to bring ourselves out of it. At the same time they bail out our own billionaire olygarchs who have much more than they could ever need. They allow them to flaunt the laws of our country and give them a mere “slap on the wrist” for any infractions though they could pay hundreds of millions easily that could be used for better services for all Canadians.
Let’s all start calling it what it is and stop being nice about things. They need us to be poor and sick so there is fear in the so called middle class of ending up like us. Of losing everything because you got sick or hurt at work. Maybe your skin is the wrong color, your sex isn’t typical or your government has been trying to exterminate you for your entire existence. One little misstep or even something out of your control and your life is fucked forever.
They need you to go to work and to vote for them. They need you not to challenge them and hate one another because of your political beliefs, your racism or sexism, or your implied class. They need you to forget about us and argue with us. They need you to keep us down. And you do.
Until someone starts standing up for the little guys over here screaming at you, we will continue to be a fascist dictatorship to a portion of our population and the vast majority of people on both sides of the political spectrum couldn’t give a fuck.
People are gonna hate this
Around here? I wouldn’t be so sure.
Oh they do. I hear about it daily because I post these things m often. I’ve been called all kinds of names and told I’m a piece of crap on the regular. My fellow Canadians are no better than the Americans they deride.
On Lemmy?
Right now the left cares more about purity tests
People care about who they can trust. Far to much liberal politics revolves around lying, cheating, and scamming voters, donors, and activists.
You can’t have a viable Left in a country that’s too cynical to believe better things are possible.
More likely is the Conservatives will split back into 2 parties. The Progressives vs the Reformers.
That’s not what their base believes. There is a whole other fantasy reality in their channels about how Carney has planned all along to cut a secret deal with Trump after the election. Other justification narratives probably exist as well, because they have to keep people believing that obviously, everyone knows we couldn’t possibly do anything other than completely fold into Trump’s plans. They spew propagandistic garbage like this and teach people to distrust legit media that understands context and checks facts rather than running with conspiracy theories based on flimsy evidence.
Best news of the night.
I helped!
Same! Me and all the people I know in this riding as well.
Thank you guys!
Hopefully PP is done now. Sounds like its up to the party if he is still the leader? Without a seat that’s going to be hard, isn’t it?
How embarrassing. How embarrassing. I love it. That smug shit lost his seat. A great day for WOKE! LOL!
It will be hard due to internal Conservative party politics, but there’s nothing saying that the party leader has to have a seat in parliament. That’s how Carney was prime minister without having a seat.
They will replace him. He failed badly and no one thinks he can lead anyone but liberals to victory. ;)
I am curious what they are going to do for a leader. Are they going to double down on the right-wing populist bullishit, or are they going to find someone reasonable.
Also, poor PP is going to have to find himself a real job now.
He can always fall back on his paper route career.
He’s got a full pension plus is a landlord. His only loss is the grift and
bribeslobbying he’ll be unable to get.
Normally I would hope they go back to their socially centrist but financially conservative stance, but I think Carney occupies that space very well.
Bernier and Pollievre I think show the MAGA approach is cooked here, people want substance and policy.
It is unfortunate the former reform part of the CPC is unlikely to let it happen, but a “Progressive Conservative” leader like Peter Mackay or Tim Houston could be very popular in the current political climate
Just like the Dems in the US are infected with a captured opposition faction who run the DNC at its roots, the Canadian Cons are infected with WildRose/Reform which are just labels for Koch funded MAGA.
The Cons had their civil war, and the PCs of old lost. I think, despite this election being a rejection of that bullshit, the Cons will double down and double down again because its not grass roots based. It and Western Seperatism is just Koch funded propaganda because Koch is the guy who makes the money on the price differential between WTI and WCS. They will do anything to maintain the billions in free money they get. They fund MAGA the same way.
If they want to keep him, someone who won a safe, rural western riding will suddenly step down, forcing a by-election. That’s the usual path back into parliament that we’ve seen in past elections. If that doesn’t happen immediately, it will be telling for his leadership prospects.
Kinda hard to be opposition leader if you are not allowed in the house.
That’s a good point, thank you!
Thank you, both of you, for your service! 🙏
Hey I have a question - I heard that there was a sort of protest in your riding to protest FPTP and so a whole whackload of independents had registered (close to 90?). Did that cause a lot of confusion at the ballot? Were the physical ballots like massive?
Just curious, as I thought it was a really great (and funny) way to protest tbh, but wondering how much of a headache it caused for the typical voter.
Yes, there were 91 people on the ballot, a protest by Fairvote Canada against FPTP. The ballot was about a meter long. No real confusion. Just had to know who you wanted to vote for. If you search the riding results, most of those independents only got 1-2 votes each.
PP gone forever? Or is CPC somehow going to give him another seat so he can stay leader?
The latter. This ghoul is not going away.
I wish he’d try working a real job for once in his life.
But realistically, if he we’re going to step down willingly it would have occurred last night. We’ll see if the party sacrifices another MP to let him stay on. Fucking guy.
Yes, that’s where the drama will unfold next. Will there be a civil war, and how many factions will be involved?
Split the right like the left? Sorry, I can only get so erect
Are you young?
The whole saga of how the modern CPC came to fruition was such a back stabby shitshow
It all started that day Day road up on that seadoo…
Actually I’ll never forget Air Farce lampooning Preston Manning, good times.
I’ve been voting for 20 years, but follow US politics more than up here. I just know green/liberal/ndp would really benefit from any voting method that’s not fptp, and would enjoy a split on the right as well.
They can’t give him someone else’s seat. They can ask someone else to resign their seat and he can run in a byelection for that seat but the prime minister (Carney) can wait up to 6 months before calling the byelection, which itself can have a campaign period of up to 50 days.
So if Carney wants to, he can keep PP out of office until at least next year.
The other cool thing is that PP is no longer eligible to occupy Stornoway House, the residence of the leader of the official opposition, since PP no longer has a seat. This means he has to move out and he loses access to the $200k year budget for household staff. So he’ll have to get out there and look for housing like the rest of us plebs (though he can easily afford it).
Whoever the conservatives choose as parliamentary leader can defer it to him according to CBC, so he shouldn’t have to move out.
As a woman, a lesbian, a disabled person, and someone who thinks all humans deserve rights… I am so relieved. I voted Liberal for the first time in my life, and was glad to do it - Carney makes me hopeful again for the first time in a long time.
Carney is a neoliberal banker. This guy has abused every tax loop hole in the book. He’s still better than the fascist conservatives, but I won’t be getting my hopes up.
If I could have voted NDP without tossing my vote away into the wind, I would have. Instead of being negative about it, get involved. Call, write, engage, and otherwise communicate with your elected officials, your community; we are lazy and complicit, and it’s shameful.
Sorry. I don’t want to take this feeling of victory away from you. I’m just worried that we just elected more business as usual.
Do you honestly think we can defeat growing world-wide fascism with some letters? Maybe if the letters are a guillotine I don’t see a way forward.
I think we grumble now so we don’t have to fight later. Fascism is the natural end to capitalism; without it, the rich can’t become any richer. Make noise. Get involved. Smart people with compassion are what we need most now.
So, now what for Poilievre?
Maybe the knives come out and he’s forced out as Conservative leader. I mean, he had a 20 percentage point lead over the Liberals and lost it. That has to piss them off. All he needed to do is do what Doug Ford did and stand up for Canada and against Trump.
But, if he doesn’t step down, where does he get someone to step down so he can run in a by-election? If he wants to stay near Ottawa, he’ll really have to move somewhere rural. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who actually likes rural people or rural life very much. Or, he could move to Alberta. Lots of safe Conservative ridings in Alberta, some are even in urban areas. But, will they want a guy who is the very model of a carpet-bagger? A politician who has never had a job outside of politics, not just from “Ottawa” meaning the federal government, but who has literally lived in Ottawa(ish) for years?
I hope they ditch him. I’m sure the conservative party could do a lot worse, but there’s also a chance they could find a leader who has actually done something with their lives outside politics, and who has their own ideas, not just reheated culture war crap from Canada’s Shorts and just shouting down anything the Liberals suggest.
He just has to move one riding over to Lanark.
Please no.
He’s a city boy though, would he survive living in Carleton Place? Also, the conservative candidate there only won by 5 percentage points. There’s probably a risk that if he ran there he’d lose again. Same name as his riding, but definitely no longer just suburban.
do what Doug Ford did and
stand up for Canada and against Trumpgrandstand at a podium for the cameras.There. Fixed that for ya.
Sure, phrase it that way if you want. But, the point is, he did something to convince people he was anti-Trump and standing up for Canadians and it worked. Poilievre didn’t do that and lost.
Carney is the kind of person that Trump has always tried to impress. Polievre is the kind of person and Trump has always turned into a sniveling sycophant. We’re better off with Carney.
He lost his seat. He’s toast. He’ll be writing op-eds for Postmedia in a month.
I’m sure Rebel has a seat open for him.
He will get a $20,000 per month for life pension, unless he renounces suckling at the teat of the public purse and gets a real job.
So, he will get a $20,000 per month for life pension.
How will he get that? Serious question
He’s been in parliament his whole career. He’s never had a real job. He gets an MP’s pension.
That’s a ridiculous pension jfc
A real man of the people. Remember that he wanted to cut taxes on the wealthy, cut services for the rest of us to pay for it, and run up an extra $100 billion of debt over the next four years.
Good riddance
Writing op-eds for Postmedia is not a real job, to be fair.
