- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
Google’s Android, the world’s most widely used mobile operating system, started life as open-source software. In its quest for ever-greater profits, the tech giant has been gradually eroding Android’s open-source nature over the last decade.
Originally published on The Lever, but that one asks you to sign up.
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I’m thinking about getting the new FairPhone 6 when it comes out and running /e/ OS, but I’m so reliant on Google Maps and Gmail (my email account, not necessarily the app … but I do rely on the app).
I’m afraid that I’ll either install Google apps and end up with a phone just as compromised as a stock Android install, or if I don’t it will be too much of a pain in the ass to use.
There are Maps alternatives. For instance, Organic maps or the fork CoMaps. Not nearly as good UX as Google Maps… and zero traffic data available… but the upside is they work entirely offline.
Organic Maps is great in many ways. It’s maps are so much better. But the lack of traffic data is a killer for route planning in the UK. All the open source maps suffer this. There needs to be open access traffic information for there to be competition.
As far as I know, traffic data is gathered via spying on users—Google Maps and similar apps sending device location to a central cloud service. Maybe somebody could provably anonymize the data somehow to make an alternative service for the open competitors to use.
That’s what we need.
Interesting. Fingers crossed!
Linux phones will hopefully fix that soon(ish)
It’s gonna be the year of the Linux phone, I can feel it!
PostmarketOS using Waydroid for the neccessary apps, anyone has experience to share?
It’s the year of the Linux phone!
the ecosystem is so weak at this time, So maybe in the future it will improve?
Ik you can run Android apps via a container or smth
MS keeps making Windows worse but that is not a problem because Linux is great on PCs. The reason is that PC is made out of standardized plug&play components that you can make generic OS image for.
There is no such thing in smartphone world. Each chipset is it’s own Linux fork that gets only most crucial bug fixes while in warranty. Same is true for ARM SBCs where I believe the only board that supports generic image are new RPis.
The reason is that PC is made out of standardized plug&play components that you can make generic OS image for.
Yep, given the history of consumer technology as a whole it is really more amazing that the standard PC became a thing more than it is that people put up with what phones are today.
We all really owe a lot of gratitude to Phoenix for reverse engineering the IBM BIOS back in the day, and going to court to fight the IBM copyright lawsuit that resulted, as well as Compaq and all of the other IBM compatible clones.
Both ARM itself and Linux for ARM has been standardizing a fair bit recently. But not to the extent to be fully generic, mostly just enough for portable bootable kernels - and after that you still need all the same custom drivers and configurations to make proper use of a SoC, but it’s not nothing.
https://linuxgizmos.com/ebbr-spec-to-bring-standardization-to-embedded-linux-boot-process/
The article is 7 years old. Has anything come to fruition since then?
Last update in December
I’m on hyperos and every time I have to touch anything pure Google I feel like I’m on a windows PC.
Don’t get me wrong, hyperos isn’t a pinnacle of freedom, but all I do with my phone is basically using Firefox and take photos (+ signal, & SMS) and use the lichess app.
It’s so infuriating, they steal our data, but just needs more. I’ll try a Linux FOSS system next phone.
Maybe it was better when Android phones didn’t get updates. Eh? 😉
The stupid attempt to have everyone leave bluetooth always on pisses me off. They’ve made the BT quick tile 2 more presses to toggle on or off is ridiculous. It’s not a quick tile.
I’ve just put a BT on/off widget on my home screen.
There is an Xposed module to replace the tiles back to a simple on/off toggle, for both BT tile and WiFi tile.
You need to grab your control back lol
Also if you don’t have root on your personal Android devices these days… lol may Google have mercy on you lmao (hint: they won’t lol)
root is a security risk on many security focused ROMs.
See the 4th reply in this GrapheneOS thread
and this from CalyxOS’s FAQ
If you can link the xposed module though I wouldnt mind making a feature request and asking for the module itself to be integrated into their forks.
Could you develop on “attempt to have everyone leave bluetooth” ? What do they want us to use instead ?
“[…] leave bluetooth always on”
Maybe we should start resurrecting symbian
or just start pooring support into PostMarket or UBTouch
I find myself using desktop Linux more than my mobile device, even on the couch with the family. Monitors on arms that can swing out of the way ftw. No cute advice for keyboards though. We have wireless ones around but I still use my wired Deck Legend on my lap. It’s an old mechanical keyboard that’s built like a tank, with the PCB literally mounted to a sheet of metal that is mounted inside the housing, lol.
It’s almost a shame, because smart phones are still absolutely amazing to me as far as the amount of scientific and technical advancement that can fit in the palm of your hand. But I look forward to the open options various parties are working on.
I really want to try a pinephone or something with Ubuntu touch. It’s likely not daily driver ready but I’m still curious at how far along it is.
Can’t speak for Ubuntu Touch but tried PostMarketOS on PinePhone and PinePhone Pro.
The PP works well, good support for most things included SIM, camera, BT, etc but it’s big and bulky, also IMHO not powerful enough for Waydroid so no Android apps, “just” Linux. Relying on the browser to avoid using app is rarely practical as it’s too slow.
The PPPro being more powerful should cover the gap… but some lack of support, specifically the camera, makes it tricky as daily driver.
Both PP and PPPro don’t have great battery and/or power management so you can go through a day of usage, barely, and you might get stuck in a cycling loop if you depleted it entirely. That means also as daily driver, if you are not very cautious, it’s tricky.
So… we are nearly there but unless you have a very VERY minimum usage of your phone, basically a dumb phone with a bit of CLI to remote connect to your own server from time to time, it’s probably not practical for now.
Maybe the Liberux NEXX thanks to its power would have closed the gap but the failed crowd funding campaign shows that price point does not have a market fit right now.
Thanks for the write up! It honestly sounds like it’s be fine for me. My iPhone is already extremely bare and stripped down. I barely use the camera too, so like, idk I don’t feel like I’d be missing much?
If I could buy a super cheap used one for testing, I’d do it. I’m waiting for my iPhone SE to die on me anyways before making the switch.
If by any chance you can be in Brussels for a bit, I can lend you mine for a while to test.
I appreciate that! I’m in the states unfortunately
Can’t easily help there. Maybe you can find someone local who could help. Best of luck.
So… we are nearly there but unless you have a very VERY minimum usage of your phone, basically a dumb phone with a bit of CLI to remote connect to your own server from time to time, it’s probably not practical for now.
…and, that’s me.
I gave up on my phones. There’s no way to remain connected to the modern world and my own without just keeping everything off of my phone and using it entirely in stock NPC mode. Trackers? Adware? Malware? Doesn’t matter, I only use it for calls, banking apps and cash apps. How do I access my personal, more 1337 haxxor shit?
Laptop, although I can do a lot of work over ssh on phones and use things like syncthing and nextcloud to get around the ecosystem, still, but for the most part, I’m back in 2007, baby! We’re carrying messenger bags! We don’t care!
banking apps and cash apps
Unfortunately that’s prevents from switching to Linux proper over (hopefully deGoogled) Android.
You just need a window into their world.
Carry your Linux phone and tether it to an old android, install what you need and turn it off.
carry two things, like some kind of asshole that carries two things!?
When I was 19, we all carried cameras and mp3 players around too. It’s hardly a stretch.
Google should be broken up and its leadership fined into oblivion for anti competitive behavior
The obfuscated nature of compiled code does an incredible amount of heavy lifting on behalf of shareholders. Imagine a world where x-ray specs suddenly revealed source code. The flight to open solutions would be irresistible. Windows is hot garbage but it clings to its market share like a limpet, through the magic of closed source, occupying space like a flabby tumour. It doesn’t care if it kills the host because the top priority is growth and an unassailable market share. That’s the magic of capitalism.
Honestly I don’t think many people would care? Until the security holes became intractable, I guess.
Its proven Android phones are doing awful stuff, even client side, and has that slowed them down?
Up until about two weeks ago I could use wallet on my rooted pixel with lineage and play integrity fix.
Some recent change on their end and it doesn’t work at all anymore. I guess they don’t want to know what I’m buying.
i
hardheard people use a smart watch to get nfc payments workingI’m trying to make my own smart watch as a hobby experiment at the moment, and one of my most important features is NFC payments. It’s a nightmare, although I understand why. Currently my plan is to buy another smart watch or smart ring and take the NFC chip from it, which is maddening, but more or less my only option due to contactless payment security.
To do contactless payments, your bank must effectively permit the specific device, otherwise go through GPay or Apple Pay, who in turn just do the permitting themselves. Anything outside of the standard ecosystem just gets overlooked.
The best workaround while avoiding these companies is to find a smart watch or ring that has compatibility with a proxy card, such as Curve. But beyond halving the price of the accessory, this is pretty much an arbitrary decision.
Stroke posting
I think what they were trying to say is “I heard people use an Apple watch to get NFC payments working”. I’m not confident that answer=Apple (also I have no idea if that would actually help), but it’s the best I can come up with.
Android watch maybe.
Garmin would work and isn’t iOS or Android based
Garmin makes shock collars. They’re more evil than Google or apple.
I bought a Garmin to accompany my Graphene Pixel, only to discover that my bank doesn’t support Garmin Pay.
So, MagSafe wallet attached my phone it is then.
I just hope the new pebble supports a Sim card soon but I’m not holding my breath. I just want talk, text, and a calendar. Music or a matrix app could be cool too so I can run beeper or similar through it. Other than that I have a tablet or laptop and tbh I’m thinking my next tablet when this one finally dies or I maybe give it away would be a remarkable or other epaper device. My coworkers are starting to think I’m a Luddite but whatever.
Does the PayPal the wallet work?
Still use my Windows Phones with Windows 10 Mobile as my daily drivers. Best OS to date.
I loved my Lumia 1520, but it just doesn’t hold a candle to a modern Android phone with LineageOS installed. Both in functionality and in privacy.
Eh, even if they got it right and more popular, it would have enshittified quick.
one of the best products Microsoft ever produced. I absolutely LOVED my old Lumia. great phone, the OS was perfect, just an awesome all around phone. wish I still had it.
Mobile GNU/Linux is getting better, but I think it is 5-10 years out from what’s needed. I suppose people need to adopt Desktop first. The nice thing is you can install Android apps including Google Play on it natively, and they appear in your app drawer like a regular app
deleted by creator
What’s wrong with tapless payment with cards?
Nothing, but many users have already migrated to using stored payment information on their phones.
When you use apple or android pay, it generates a temporary card number etc and uses that, which means if that payment terminal gets compromised, your card number etc isn’t exposed. Your bank could probably do something similar without Google or Apple as the middleman, but until they do, mobile pay will remain a killer app.
There are Google Play Android bank apps (mine works fine), and you can use mobile sites as dedicated app drawer icons. Their mobile site is top notch.
NFC payments won’t come anytime soon to native GNU/Linux, but I don’t use them. Maybe Google Wallet works, I haven’t tried and don’t know if NFC can be passed through to Waydroid. OnePlus 6 is the best supported originally Android phone for GNU/Linux, someone with that would need to test.
I just have my card in a silicon sleeve on the back of the phone and I get the same effect. I’d rather Google not have my purchase history anyways.
I just saw KDE Bigscreen got reboot. While it’s not exactly the same (its for TVs, like Android TV and Steam Big Picture mode), it’s nice to see major desktop environments(DE) adopt new UI features for small and large devices. This compliments work done by groups like PinePhone, who laid the groundwork for Linux phones.
you can install Android apps including Google Play on it natively
What whaaaat? I didn’t know this! Thanks for the tip
Yeah how the hell do you do this?
Waydroid, Anbox, etc
Which do you recommend? How well does it work? :)
Waydroid, it’s the wayland continuation of anbox. From what I’ve seen and used, it’s very good. It’s good enough for most mobile apps including gaming. Some linux phone manufacturers even make it a point to integrate waydroid by default to allow you to use android apps just fine
Hell yeah, now I can waste my time on DuoLingo outside of the toilet!!
My big problem is banks and satnav.
SatNav need traffic info and there is none, so their routes are bad.
Banks require apps to even use their website for “secure codes”. Those apps try to detect ROMs and refuse to run, not even really being Android is going to make passing that harder.
Let alone random things like parking apps where the app is the only way to pay.
This is a political problem as much as technical. Competition is basically dead. We need government to step in and make competition possible. But they are in big tech’s pocket and the status quo suits them too. Voters either don’t care or believe what big tech says. It’s a mess.
Satnav there is Pure Maps (OSM client), which can connect to sources like HERE to get traffic data to provide voiced guided turn-by-turn instructions. Of course there is also all the Android apps like Google Maps available, and their mobile site works fine.
On the topic of mobile sites, you can also install them as dedicated app drawer icons via Gnome Web & Firefox PWA for any site.
This means if your bank app doesn’t like vanilla Android, GApps, you can use a comparable dedicated web app.
For parking, I’ve found a surprising amount have mobile sites, so I don’t need to install their bloaty Android app onto my GNU/Linux phone.
Good to know. I’d really like to try a proper Linux phone as a daily driver.
It’s a bit of a catch honestly.
OSS/community Linux graphical environments have kind of always been ~5 years out from what’s needed. 15 years ago they were behind ~5 years, 5 years ago they where behind ~5 years.
The only difference is today. I think they’re only behind by ~3-4 years thanks to the backwards movement of things like Windows and OSx staleness.
Mobile operating systems are in a worse place.
android peaked with the pixel 2. then everyone went overboard on bezel-less displays and fast refresh rates and smart assistant services and brought the whole damn thing crashing down.
… and I want my headphone jack, back.
Yep, didn’t use it much but I have studio headphones that I lliked to plug from time to time.
TBH getting a nice dongle like a Fiio KA5 is not so bad. It’s small enough to just hang off the cord, and sounds better anyway, and you don’t have to throw it away every phone switch.
Not so bad?
That thing costs 230€ vs a free headphone jack. 🙄
Sorry, I meant the KA1 or KA3, got them mixed up. My KA3 was like $50 used.
I use it on my PC, too.
Considering the cost in reference to the hardware, and that I can use it basically forever, and that it’s a lower distortion DAC than any phone? It’s not bad. And it’s a barely-noticable addon for my headphones that just lives on the cord.
I don’t think the issue with phones is the smaller bezels or better displays.
That’s not what’s ruining them.
Fast refresh rates are amazing. I cherished my old Razer Phone 2.
I think it varies from person to person. My gf can’t tell the difference at all, even when she really tries, neither can a friend of mine (who also use the most insane jerky screen settings on his TV). For me, I can’t imagine going back to 60hz ever again. It feels like something is physically wrong with my phone if I turn 120hz off.
