- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
I can’t belive it. He tries to fight against functioning democracy.
But how are they going to sue, if postal workers won’t deliver application to the court?
Elon Musk is a Nazi fuck, just like “Palestinian” terrorists, so fuck him and his Nazi fuck company, no one should ever buy a Tesla, and no government should be in business with SpaceX ever, for anything for any reason.
On a connected but separate note, either collective bargaining is a right in Sweden guaranteed by law, or it’s a tradition that “pretty much everyone follows”, if it’s the latter, an organ of the state such as the postal service cannot legally discriminate to whom they deliver mail, as it’s traditionally one of the bedrock services a state offers. I see Tesla winning this suit pretty handily, which does not bode well for the Swedish model of sympathetic striking.
Ah yes the nazi billionaire is just like the destitute people which are getting genocided fighting back.
Also the state should force its laborers to work.
I’ll keep eating downvotes, but this postal strike is different.
This isn’t toys r us again.
A government agency signed a contract that prevents delivery of license plates other than this one service and provides no other way to get them.
It literally prevents any and all auto manufacturers from selling cars without a collective agreement. This isn’t making Teslas life hard which is the unions right, it’s preventing a company from being able to sell items which is on a whole other level.
Tesla has won a temporary reprieve and is allowed to pick up the plates now while the lawsuit continues.
Please see past any hate of musk for how this one very specific action (the government contract) is a step too far that needs to be addressed
This isn’t making Teslas life hard which is the unions right, it’s preventing a company from being able to sell items which is on a whole other level.
That’s literally the same thing. Tesla isn’t a person, you can’t “annoy” Tesla, all you can do is hurt it financially. That’s literally the point of strikes; ensuring that not complying with demands ends up costing more than just going with it. They’re not even asking for anything outlandish, just standard Swedish working conditions.
Please see past any hate of musk for how this one very specific action (the government contract) is a step too far that needs to be addressed
It is perfectly within the rights of the workers at Transportstyrelsen to not deal with Tesla’s paperwork. Yes, they work at a government agency, but they’re workers and have the same right to strike as most anyone else. I say most anyone because sadly healthcare workers aren’t allowed to strike, meaning their working conditions keep worsening, meaning people get hurt.
Strikes are good for a healthy society.
Again, you aren’t seeing the forest through the trees.
YES it is the workers rights to not deliver mail. I support this!
It is the unions rights to make Teslas life DIFFICULT not impossible. Make it so difficult they want to leave if that’s their goal.
The government, not the union, signed a contract that prevents the license plates from being handled in any other way. That is the problem, not the striking workers.
The government is obligated to get those license plates out and failed in that obligation.
All they need to do is allow them to be picked up in person.
The government, not the union, signed a contract that prevents the license plates from being handled in any other way.
There’s no contract, that’s just how license plates are distributed here. The government isn’t blocking Tesla, nor have they ordered anything that blocks Tesla. This is just the consequences of their actions; they tried to fuck with the way our labour market works, and now workers refuse to provide them with labour. It really is that simple.
What you’re saying is that the government makes some sort of legal exception to procedure specifically for Tesla. Why? Last I checked Tesla wasn’t the king of Sweden or any other organ that gets special legal treatment.
They made this bed.
There is a contract that states only this one service can deliver the license plates (edit: and can’t be delivered any other way)
That contract is the problem.
Yeah, again this applies to everyone. It’s not a contract between Tesla and the government, it’s standard procedure; official post goes through the state post carrier.
Why does Tesla deserve special treatment?
The government is obligated to issue and have the license plate delivered. They have met the obligation of issuing it, that isn’t in question.
The government then has a contract with PostNord to deliver the plates, and the contract says it must be delivered, and cannot be picked up in person.
Tesla is going to argue that this restriction preventing pick up in person isn’t lawful.
They aren’t asking for special treatment saying ONLY Tesla should be able to pick the plates up in person, they are asking for the same treatment for everyone. That everyone should be able to pick them up in person, at least in a situation like this.
And again - the judges have already agreed there is merit to their argument and allowed Tesla to pick up the plates in person, and have imposed a fine if they are prevented.
Another rationale if I understand this properly (and I might not, so the below might be wrong)
My knowledge of the whole force majeure side of the strikes is pretty bare, but my understanding is the strikes are being treated as force majeure. The government also needs to be able to function if a force majeure event occurs. In this case, the government is unable to meet its obligation to have plates delivered in the event of a force majeure, which doesn’t have to be a strike, it could be other things that impact the postal service to. So it’s possible that this contract needs to be ammended to account for force majeure
A democratically elected government signed an exclusive contract with a private company. This worked just fine for years.
But now a foreign company wants the democratically elected government to make an exception for them, so they can circumvent labour unions and undermine the labour rights enacted by a democratically elected parliament.
Ignoring the legal merits of this particular case, it’s bad PR and very bad politics.
Don’t be too surprised if, over the coming months and years, Tesla and Musk’s troubles with authorities and unions across the EU keep mounting up and that suddenly no one cares to give them the benefit of the doubt or interpret the rules anything but strictly.
I think “bad PR” is a massive understatement there.
The government, not the union, signed a contract that prevents the license plates from being handled in any other way.
So what? Central handling of license plates is common throughout the EU. It’s a very sensitive issue after all.
Tesla not only are being assholes trying to circumvent basic worker rights, they’re also lazy assholes who couldn’t be arsed to see this coming.
Well it just so happens they work in a field where it’s particularly easy for their activity to be shut down. Boo hoo, cry me a river.
Is there any other circumstance where this government decision is bad or is Tesla being inconvenienced the only one? Because I think I can live with that one.
If something else took out this one postal service, it would halt all auto sales with no other recourse.
A virus wiping out their computer system
A natural disaster.
I’m sure there’s other circumstances where this could be unexpectedly bad on a whole.
If that happened they would use another carrier. Which may or may not have a sympathetic union.
You’re trying to paint a picture in which the government is directly involved with cockblocking Tesla but it’s not. Union culture was bound to bite them in the ass one way or another. It’s got nothing to do with the fact the government has to control license plate distribution.
Edit: I’ve already read your other comment btw so no need to rehash it. I happen to agree with it, I think there is merit to reviewing the arguments of both Tesla and the government in this situation. But it’s not going to get any easier for Tesla going forward.
They can’t use another carrier.
There’s a contract preventing it.
The contract is the problem, not the union.
Edit: as per your edit I agree, even if they do win, things are only going to get harder.
The government, not the union, signed a contract that prevents the license plates from being handled in any other way. That is the problem, not the striking workers.
I get what you’re saying but also the government is free to sign an exclusive contract with a company, right? Like if DHL had agreed to distribute the plates for free, but only if they had the exclusive rights to it, I don’t see a problem with it.
The government is obligated to get those license plates out and failed in that obligation.
Are they? The government has done what they should, as in make sure there are plates. Having the government be responsible for the plates reaching the consumer would be weird IMHO.
But I’m not a lawyer and I’m sure this will be interesting to follow.
Well, that’s what’s going to be challenged.
The judges already deemed it worthy enough to let the lawsuit continue and allow Tesla to pick the plates up in person (and imposed fines if they are hindered) , so they don’t think its meritless.
I appreciate that you can at least see the difference here even if you still don’t think there’s a problem.
As you say, this will be very interesting to follow
This is a when in Rome thing… Don’t apply an outsider’s morals to Sweden.
I don’t see how this is a “step too far”.
Americans have their so called freedom (as in, the freedom to screw over those weaker than you), Swedes have their equality and quality of life. This is nothing more than a reaction to an American company trying to destroy their culture and way of life.
Imagine spotify coming to the US and forcing a state to have a $20 minimum wage. Your politicians would be foaming at the mouth.
In no way shape or form have I ever said that the postal workers shouldn’t be allowed to strike against Tesla and prevent mail delivery. Or that the aluminum extrusion company shouldn’t be able to stop supplying parts to Tesla. Or that the dock workers have to unload their cars. None of that is the problem. That is the Swedish way.
This is about the government being required to process and deliver the plates, and a contract that is preventing delivery with no alternative. A contract that would prevent delivery even in other non union related circumstances.
When it comes to industrial relations, Spotify are more American than Swedish. They rejected a collective agreement earlier this year. If this turns into a battle royale to break the back of the Swedish union movement, I can see them joining in alongside Musk.
They tendered a contract and this postal service won it, this postal service is taking part in industrial action which is their right and the agency has fulfilled it’s obligation in creating and issuing the plate. The agency can’t go around the company they have agreed will be their sole postal service.
Is allowing direct pick ups going around? They would still be the sole postal delivery service?
Should the government be able to enter into such a contract with such restrictions that can inhibit their obligations, even in non strike situations?
I think it’s a legal question worth getting answered.
If the postal service is saying no deliveries until the strike ends and they are housing the packages at a non public place then no, that’s a delivery if they manage and facilitate the receiving of the goods.
Yes the government should be able to, it’s how business is done. We agree a price on the grounds that we will not have to compete for the business for x number of years. As for should the government be interfering, I’m sure they would in some backwards countries but strong unions exist for the people. A government that facilitates strong unions would know not to.
It will depend on the specifics. Are they refusing to hand over the license plates that are already legally property of the Tesla owner? Or are they simply refusing to work on the process of granting license plates?
If I recall correctly, the postal workers do in no way prevent the handover of packages for Tesla, they simply refuse to deliver them. Tesla is free to fetch them, nothing is withheld. I agree that something like withholding packages or license plates which are not property of the workers would be … an act difficult to agree with.
The plates have already been manufactured and issued to Tesla. That’s all working as expected.
The plates are then picked up by PostNord who has an exclusive contract with the government agency who creates and issues the plates. The union employees at PostNord are refusing to deliver the plates as is their right.
The contract with PostNord also prevents any other delivery method of the plates, including Tesla going to the plate manufacture and picking them up in person.
The fact that Tesla can’t go to the plate manufacture and pick them up is the real issue. (although the judge has ruled in the interm they can go pick them up while the lawsuit continues)
You kinda forgot government part of government. You know, the one that can kick out any company.
What happened with Toys r Us? I read through the article and other I didn’t see it or missed it.
Similar thing happening to Tesla now. Escalating sympathy strikes.
Eventually, they caved, and then later left the country.
But at no point in time were they outright prevented from selling their goods. It was just incredibly difficult and not cost effective to continue.
