Overall, 39% of U.S. adults say they are “extremely proud” to be American in the most recent poll.
Meanwhile, only 18% of those aged 18-34 said the same, compared to 40% of those aged 35-54 and 50% of those 55 and over.
18% is still too high. As Obama’s pastor said, God damn America! Americans have very little to be proud of at this point.
What is there to be proud of? An illegitimate court, house and senate bought and paid for by corporations and foreign governments, a capitalist economy that crushes 99.99 percent to lift the 0.01 even higher? These are points of shame, not pride.
Honestly I’m pretty proud of how well turned the ship around on gay rights. Like in the span of a decade there was like a 40% opinion swing on that. We’re still not where we need to be and it seems like it’s getting worse though tbh. I think Europe overtook us on that front because I feel much safer here in Germany being gay in public.
How (generally) genuinely nice and outgoing everyone is in the states. (Outside of the south where it tends to be a very fake in my experience.) In the states I’m mildly introverted, in Germany I’m usually one of the most outgoing in the room.
Our multicultural foods and stuff. You’re never more than a stones throw from really good Mexican, Chinese, Thai, etc. food anywhere in the US.
Turning right on a red light, the European mind cannot comprehend it.
Air Conditioning.
Handicap accessibility.
Our national parks are unparalleled.
Probably a few other American gems I could think of if forced to.
All that being said I’m immigrating to Germany right now and the grass is very much greener over here. I have no desire to live in the US again. I’m definitely not proud of America anymore, but I am proud of a few things about America.
Pretty damning with faint praise there really.
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Just saying that cars turning right on red have almost run me over as a pedestrian multiple times.
Yeah, our and driver- and car-manufacturer-friendly policies have a measurable impact on the safety of non-car users of public infrastructure.
Not a great example IMO.
I’m sorry, and I know this isn’t the point you’re trying to make, but the idea of someone asking an American why they’re proud to be an American, and they respond with “air conditioning” is just so funny to me that I’ve been giggling like a moron about it for the last 20 minutes.
I find Patriotism incredibly arrogant and somewhat ignorant of the world around you. I don’t care where you’re from, I only care about decent individuals.
You are confusing patriot and nationalist.
A Patriot loves his country and tries to do what’s right for it, as in make it better.
A nationalist is a chauvinist, who believes his country is better than others, and deserves to have power over them. The nationalist is therefore also racist and xenophobe, and prefer isolation rather than cooperation with other countries.
I’m a patriot, but I realize my country has flaws, and some countries are better in some respects. But I still love my country.
Just wanna point out that these words don’t necessarily have those connotations globally. When I think of nationalism, I think of anti-colonialism. When I hear patriot, i think jingoist with flag on a pickup. It’s totally valid if you wanna use those words with those qualifications but if you happen to be talking to me that’s just how I would react to hearing it. Even if it turns out we see eye to eye on everything
Political ideologies can mean very different things in different countries/contexts. Republicans in France or the US are conservatives, broadly in support of the status quo. Republicanism in the UK, or late during the French Monarchy, is a much more revolutionary ideology, interested in upsetting the status quo with policies like electing a head of state. I think nationalist and patriot have similar relative meanings that reflect the nation one is from.
Also worth pointing out that every nationalist identifies as a patriot due to the negative connotations of the former.
Patriotism is supporting the state
Nationalism is supporting the people
Eh… If you live in a company that treats people fairly, is run by the people, for the people, takes care of the poor, and embodies liberty and justice for all, then that’s something that you can be proud to be a part of. But unfortunately those are just things they teach school children here, not things that the country actually does.
That would be correct if people would freely choose where they are born. But they don’t, so it doesn’t make sense.
It does also not make sense if you were born some place and then move to this “better” country: Instead of making it better you leave for somewhere that is already good. How would it ever get better if people just leave?
And those that actively work on making a place better are doing the good thing themselves, not the country. They should be proud of themselves instead.
Most people don’t have the power to change their country. Some people are actively persecuted, even to the point of death, by the governments of the countries they live in. I know a lot of refugees and they are all very proud Americans. They’re proud they escaped the country they came from, they’re proud to be a part of country that accepts them and gives them opportunity, and they’re proud of the freedom they have here. As a native born American I can’t say that I chose my country, even though I choose to stay, but I respect the feelings of the people who have, and understand why that is a point of pride for them.
The thing is that there is no country that really does that. I’m Finnish and while many things are a lot better, that has at least not been entirely true to this country as long as I have had some real concept of the world around me. At the same time, there is some pride not in as I am proud to be Finnish but I am a little bit proud of how much Finland has accomplished on that front. At least I am when I am not entirely pissed off by the majority of the country because of the shit it is doing.
I used to have no concept of pride in my country of birth and I don’t still see it as something to be proud of as I did nothing to end up here. But in the past decade, I have worked in places that have taught me how bad things really can be, especially to part of the population. It is a weird dichotomy to see the worst of your country and still see how it can be better than in many places. It really does give me whiplash in my own head.
I’m in the same boat. Even on this very comment chain I said our country doesn’t do those things and then in a comment to a reply I gave examples of how it actually does do those things. It’s a special gift and curse to clearly see the gradient, it isn’t all black and white.
Americans have not had it hard in a long time. No world wars have been fought on our soil. The wars we have been in since WW2 have not been very popular. I grew up gen X and we pretty much thought the world was going to end and that the previous generations handed us a pile of shit.
The kids now days look at all of us like a bunch of hypocritical ass hats. If I was a kid watching the shit adults are doing and talking about now, I would not be proud either. I would be embarrassed. I am embarrassed of what we have/are becoming. A lot of older people sit around and bitch about the younger generation but we are the ones that raised them. We are the ones not taking care of business like we told them they should. We are the ones babbling nonsense, disrespecting the law, doing all the things we told our kids not to do. Why the hell should they listen, or be proud or form the same values as we may have? We are literally showing them that none of this matters and then turn around and blame them for telling us all to fuck off.
A lot of older people sit around and bitch about the younger generation but we are the ones that raised them.
I believe that is a global problem, though. A lot of countries have massively aging populations. I feel like a youngster here in Germany, and I’m in my mid-30’s. Lots of old bastards telling my generation we are lazy and need to get off our asses. Sometimes I wish we could just take all these people and put them somewhere else so I don’t have to hear that shit anymore. :D
Millennial here, and I feel the same way. Every time a kid’s disrespectful, it’s very likely there’s a Millennial parent raising them that way.
Can confirm, am German and not proud to be an American either.
How dare you!
Ironically many Americans are proud to be [pick any European country].
Which I always found is considering they nor their parents nor grandparents had every set foot in that nation.
In theory, to be American your ethnic background should be diverse. We are the uniting force of humanity.
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Nah, that’s weird.
In Australia, if you were born here, you’re Australian. That’s it. I have lots of friends whose parents are from all over the world - UK, Ireland, Italy, Greece, India, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, The Phillipines, NZ. Almost 50% of Australians have a parent who wasn’t born here.
But if you ask any of those first generation Australians where they’re from, they’d all say Australia - not their parents country.
The American obsession with race/lineage/DNA tests is just weird.
It’s like me claiming to be Polish-British because my mum’s family came here in the 1600s. It’s stupid.
If you’re parent/grandparent are still a German citizen you can apply for German citizenship until 2031.
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No, but I also don’t quite know where I implied that. Language barrier maybe?
Nothing. They’re just an asshole who took your comment to mean that you aren’t proud of America, but are proud of Germany and decided to quote a bad thing that happened in Germany. Like you can only be proud or criticize other countries if your country is perfect.
My point was simply Germany is far more racist of a country than the US could ever hope to be. When 1/4 of Germans are ok with lynching black people in the streets, then I think one has to look inwards at their own personal gripes instead of demeaning others simply for being born black like myself.
And yes, 25% of Germans are far-right wing nationalists, this is not the same type of nationalism as here in America, this is real Nazism we’re talking about, not the phony American kind
Also I suggest everyone read this article:
Please do not defend Nazis, the EU has a very serious Right-wing problem that’s growing more and more each year and I would appreciate people addressing these issues instead of brushing them under the rug because that just tells me you’re ok with it
“Many think AfD could emerge as the strongest party when Brandenburg and the fellow eastern states of Saxony and Thuringia hold elections next year. In Thuringia, the AfD candidate last month won the county administrator’s post in Sonneberg, the first time since the Nazi era that a far-right party placed first at the county level.”
My point was simply Germany is far more racist of a country than the US could ever hope to be.
… and… nobody suggested otherwise?
(edit)
Hold on, are you replying to the wrong thread? Because then your replies would make sense.
Well, y’know, we were an explicit apartheid state for 80% of our history, and were founded on the back of slavery and genocide so brutal it served as the blueprint for Nazi Germany… The more alarming part is that anyone is proud of our nation.
I’m not young and I’m really not proud. It’s honestly embarrassing. Trump was a disgrace and ruined any sense of pride I had.
Honestly: For all his many, many, many faults, he was still a massive improvement over Bush junior. His insurrection and the way he handled Covid was terrible, but the Iraq-war was worse and unforgivable.
I’ll have to disagree on that one. Bush sucked but he was better. The left and right weren’t at war with each other, we could have conversations and discussions. Now you cannot.
I agree with you.
I had a discussion with a coworker just before a company meeting during W’s 2nd campaign and I expressed how terrible I thought he was and even said I couldn’t understand how or why anyone would vote for him… My coworker told me that he voted for him, thought he’d been doing a great job, and planned to vote for him again… And that was all there was to it… No animosity, judgement, or hard feelings between us … We just never discussed it again.
No, they both sucked but in very different ways.
Bush weakened many of our institutions and lead us into two forever wars. And a huge recession in which he did diddly squat to get us out of it.
Trump is a traitor and embraced a Russian psyops campaign against the American public while getting his face full of shit.
Yeah, if we keep having this tendency to say someone wasn’t too bad once someone worse comes around, we’ll just end up thinking Trump was great by comparison to whatever crappy politician we have as president in 20 years.
Bush was worse, due to Iraq, but I still wouldn’t say Trump was a massive improvement. He was still an imperialist, like Bush, and almost started a war with Iran
We know the extent of the damage Bush caused. We won’t fully grasp what Trump has ruined for a generation
The kids under 35 have only known post-911 snooping, bigotry, military adventurism, the 2008 mortgage crash, housing and education costing multiples of what previous generations paid (in adjusted dollars), COVID insanity, a political system that is completely inaccessible to them and utterly uncaring about their needs, and, finally, a climate being actively accelerated to disaster.
The wonder here shouldn’t be at their lack of patriotism. It should be at the fact that they aren’t setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys, and generally grinding everything to a halt.
I feel like there’s also the fact that everyone who has comfortably been established tells them they’re lazy and aren’t trying hard enough…to get past all the barriers those greedy people have set up
And that we have the resources to make sure they don’t die and their teeth don’t fall out…but they don’t get it
And the fact that the elites have convinced them somehow that voting is pointless… They need to get shaken out of that.
If everyone who was in that 82% voted, the republican party would die overnight
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they know lot things becouse of internet but america did lot of fucked up thing pre-911
Yeah but we bombed the shit out of Slobodan Milosevic, which was based.
They still love America over there because of that! Definitely check out Bosnia and Albania if you ever get a chance. And it’s a really cool region in general.
🤣
Don’t forget seeing kids their age murdered in classrooms just about every day!
I don’t know a lot of teens but the handful I do know all tell me that active shooter drills are extremely terrifying and traumatic, because they aren’t told in advance if it is real or not, so they never know if they’re about to get fucking murdered. Teachers don’t know either. Can you imagine? They’re going to be able to vote in 2024 and all told me they’re voting down the line democrat, even though we are in a blood red city in a reddish purple state.
'Murica and 'Muricans are sooo behind in the world. I’m not sure why but I think that the media veil enclosing USA is doing a fair bit of lifting. There’s now alternative/new ideas and examples of how countries work today. The mental exposure for the regular American is mostly infighting, some fluff piece or threats from other countries. It’s a bit interesting to see how it works but also scary since, you know… Military
It should be at the fact that they aren’t setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys, and generally grinding everything to a halt.
Do you really think this would improve things?
I won’t deny that there are a lot of very serious problems and that progress is far slower than it ought to be. I also don’t think that wanton murder and anarchy tend to actually improve things very much - ask the victims of the Holodomor if the Russian Revolution improved life for them. Things can always be much worse. That doesn’t mean we have to accept the status quo, to be clear, but it is important to maintain a bit of perspective. “Grinding everything to a halt” also includes such useful things as food supply chains and having any job at all. Is it really that much of a surprise that most people wouldn’t be super eager to throw away everything they have and plunge the country (and by extension, world) into chaos just in a vague hope that the end result will be better? That’s not a small ask.
Do you really think this would improve things?
Do you like modern constitutional democracies over monarchies? You can thank people setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys.
Do you like when workers have rights? You can thank people setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys
Do you like civil rights? You can… well you get the idea
I’m not discounting that violent protest can work, and has worked in the past.
At the same time, ask the 20,000 people that were executed without trial or died in prison during the Reign of Terror if they think overthrowing the French monarchy was worth it. These things have costs, and that’s generally not a door I want to open unless things are getting very very bad. It’s easy to start calling for executions when you’re confident the gun won’t eventually be pointed at you, but historically, that’s not a very safe bet to make, because plenty of innocents die in these kinds of things.
Or you just convince yourself that anyone who dies simply must have deserved it. That’s not a judgement I feel comfortable passing.
These things have costs, and that’s generally not a door I want to open unless things are getting very very bad.
It’s easy to be fine with the way things are when you can be just comfortable enough hiding behind privilege. But sure, wait until things get worse, there are no time sensitive current threats to the existence of humanity anyway.
Maybe, but I think you’d find that most Americans, even young ones, wouldn’t actually want to open up Reign of Terror: American Boogaloo. Perhaps that’s privilege; maybe it’s Maybelline.
The very existence of humanity is not something that is under meaningful threat according to any climate scientists I’m familiar with - even if there will be very significant challenges and changes that will disproportionately affect vulnerable populations - but I’m more than open to any evidence of actual apocalypse if you’ve got any.
Reign of Terror: American Boogaloo? Is that the official name of US foreign policy?
Anyhow, let’s see how great and humanely the wait out and see strategy works when irreversible damage has been done and millions of displaced people show up, I’m sure it’ll all work out fine.
Unless you’re planning on picking up a gun yourself (in which case, best of luck with that), yes, I do think the more boring approach of slow incremental change is indeed what we’re kind of stuck with. It’s certainly not ideal or fair, and a lot of people will unduly suffer for it, but I’m skeptical that there’s the kind of pent-up political demand for more radical alternatives that you seem to think exists. From some recent Pew data, only about 1/3 of Americans see a pressing need to fully phase-out fossil fuels. I can’t imagine those people are exactly itching for literal terrorism.
It is curiously noted that you’ve casually moved the goal posts from “literal extinction of humanity” to “very challenging mass displacement”.
At any rate, this conversation has obviously stopped being productive for either of us, so I’m happy to leave things there.
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Why would they be? I’m not.
Why would anyone be proud of something they had zero control over?
It’s extremely stupid.
If there’s anything people should take pride in it would be their own work and accomplishments… Certainly not where they were born or anything else equally arbitrary that could have just as easily gone another way.
Based Carlin
Be proud of something that you have no personal responsibility for creating is weird.
If I am proud of my father, that is weird to you?
your father earned that :)
Proud of your father for what?
Your father has nothing to do with the country you live in besides beeing born there, as you were. You can be proud of specific people, but beeing proud of a nation as a whole doesn’t make any sense to me.
The American Dream. You can keep it.
In the words of George Carlin (I think) “you know why they call it the American dream? Because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it.”
Carlin was a beast. That quote too.
I mean, gestures broadly
Good be proud of things you do, not how you were born.
To any “patriot” who would tell these young folks to just leave the United States, I’d like to submit a preemptive YOU are the one’s who should be getting the fuck out. YOU are the ones who are un-American, YOU are the ones supporting a traitor to our country, and YOU are the ones fucking it up for everyone else by voting against not just your interests, but our interests as the not billionaire class. Hopefully, enough youth in this can be motivated to make us something to be proud of, rather than an embarrassment.
I’ll also add a preemptive “I have no fucks to give” to anyone who wants to try and shame me for not playing nice with these “patriots”. I definitely spend quite a bit of time trying to understand these people, but only in the hopes that a method to marginalize racists/traitors/bigots can be developed. You want to try to figure out how to “work with” these people, go right ahead. Not going to waste my time.
Signed: One pissed off veteran.
Yeah when I see god bless america signs it makes me want to put up a sign saying america be worthy of gods blessing. Since I don’t believe in god though it might send the wrong message
It seems strange to me that people have pride in the circumstances of their birth, something which they have no control over. Most Americans became Americans by doing nothing more than sliding out of their mother’s womb. It’s one thing to be proud to be a citizen if you worked hard and took the citizenship test to earn it, or during certain times where citizenship actually matters like when doing one’s civic duties such as voting or attending jury service, but the people who go around boasting about how proud they are to be American always seem so phony to me. What exactly are they proud of? Why are they proud of it? So bizarre.
It’s brainwashing. You need pride in your country to have people to staff the army. They need your country to become your religion so you just blindly believe whatever they tell you. Patriotism is a blank check. They can piss on you and tell you it’s raining and you’ll wave your flag and holler USA! USA! Greatest country in the world if for not all those other people. It’s nothing wrong with this country it’s all the other people. Send all those people home the ones who’s grandparents were born here.
God I hope in a couple generations our grandkids or maybe their grandkids are so sick of this s*** that humanity actually decides to become decent human beings without being told to do so.
Need to belong
tangental but I think the idea of “Service Garuntees Citizenship” to be an interesting one, from Starship Troopers. In the book, service didn’t necessarily mean military service although it was the most common from memory.
not saying that fascist regime was right or anything lol but I do think it’s at least an interesting concept, on paper at least
I mean…
*gestures around at everything
