Trump. You are supporting Trump. Trump will ban Muslims again and not just the foreign ones.
Biden is not the one murdering Palestinians.
Bebe is.
Bebe and Trump are buddies. Bebe spoke directly to Congress to humiliate Obama to help Trump get elected. He chose sides and interfered in the US election. Because Bebe is a racist genocidal murderer.
Sometimes Presidents have to do difficult diplomacy. And it sucks.
But Trump is coming for all Muslims. Seriously. We cannot have Trump again.
An American election is a zero sum game. You are forced to pick the least crappy option.
The election is important BUT the president isn’t and shouldn’t be above criticism. He is not doing the killing but he’s keeping the killers well stocked with weapons and ammunition, doing PR for them and undermining any attempt to stop the killing.
If this isn’t something he should be criticised for I don’t know what is
People who support genocide for its own sake will come up with any excuse to keep their indefensible positions from scrutiny.
People too stupid to understand how politics work would rather just insult everyone who doesn’t hold the exact same narrow ignorant view that allows them to virtue signal.
You certainly are.
They’re a huge difference between criticizing, and refusing to vote for him over a single issue. Criticize him all you wish, he’s certainly earned it, but crossing one’s arms and staying home instead of voting as a result of said criticism is fucking stupid.
Genocide is a pretty big issue as far as it goes though. Wouldn’t say it was “fucking stupid” - what if you have family in Gaza? What if one of them died?
I think you’d still have to vote Biden (first past the post fucking sucks) but if you didn’t, it’s on Biden for not changing his approach in the face of criticism from both voters and his own party. That is how democracy is supposed to work.
Biden hasn’t committed genocide. And the fact that you think he has- or even has the authority to do so in another country he has no authority over- illustrates my point:
You kids serially need a new bit. Because this one is exhausting for myself and everyone else to try and correct. It’s fundamentally wrong on every level.
I’m going to go ahead block you now as I have with all the other nonsense spewing tankie because I can see from just this one comment of yours that you will not add anything of value to add to any discussion I might find myself in.
Biden hasn’t committed genocide. And the fact that you think he has- or even has the authority to do so in another country he has no authority over- illustrates my point:
Well I don’t think he has soooo? Literally read the first comment you responded to.
He bypassed congress to get them weapons to continue the killing and the US vetoed a cease fire resolution. This is not “you kids and your tiktok talking points” as much as “well known pieces of news that paint a clear picture of complicity in what is being seriously investigated by the ICJ as a case of genocide.”
I’m going to go ahead block you now as I have with all the other nonsense spewing tankie because I can see from just this one comment of yours that you will not add anything of value to add to any discussion I might find myself in.
Lol I am a tankie now apparently despite being an anti-authoritarian leftist. I’m sure you’ll be way more informed if you block any opinion outside of your bubble. Absolutely delusional
And were Biden stupid enough to cut aid to Israel he’d lose two to three times as many potential Votes as there are to gain from cutting off aid. But you don’t care about that as purity is the only concern and consequences are for others to pay.
It’s not about purity you donut. It’s about the fact that we’re witnessing a fucking genocide with our own eyes and instead of being outraged by it and calling for an immediate stop, you’re weighing political election outcomes.
Yes exactly. Seriously I get the need for tactical voting, but this is embarrassing. Anybody criticises the president of the United States for supporting a fucking genocide and we get a lecture about Trump and how we’re going to spoil the election. Believe it or not some things are more important and Biden is failing in his duty as a president and a human being.
Should you still vote for him? Yes, obviously.
Does that mean we have to just stay quiet while he supports war crimes and much worse? Why the fuck should we
Because the consequences are more important than a feel good pyrrhic moral victory.
Only if you’re American.
No, the consequences shall be felt around the world. Just as they were the last time idiots decided teaching a lesson was more important.
Biden is a politician. What else should we expect? He’s not a great leader, or a moral paragon, or a persuasive debater. He’s a politician.
So continue the slaughter so he doesn’t lose? I thought liberals claimed they were gonna hold their people accountable
In no way was that posted, but I do understand you wish it were.
Thats exactly what you said. "Who cares that 30k+ Palestinians are dead as long as Biden doesnt lose’
There is no need for you to be accurate as your goal is to sow discord.
Nope, you’re the only one saying that. Claiming the moral high ground doesn’t give you the right to make shit up.
The polling shows around 50/50 support toward Israel, and the separation is generational. Quite succintly, Biden is in a pickle. Unconditional support toward Israel could also cost him the election. I’d argue this can be used as a wedge issue against the Democratic Party.
Polling shows about 50% of Democratic voters view Israel’s invasion of Gaza as a genocide, and 30% aren’t sure yet, with only 20% viewing it as not a genocide.
Biden’s actions don’t reflect the vast majority of Democratic voters.
Not meeting with Biden =/= Voting for Trump
But let’s not pretend this coverage doesn’t have an impact on certain voters who throw their hands up and go, “ah hell they’re all the same! I’m not voting!”
Right-wing operatives are already obviously seizing on this wedge-driving opportunity.
They whine about being called shrubs while they amplify the message Russia bots are also posting.
As far as centrists are concerned, anything other than worship of everything Biden does is a vote for Trump.
Just equals supporting his bid for power. And in turn supporting lil’ dic. pootie and fash baby bibi as they are who gain should you succeed in bringing Biden down.
The US is funding and providing the weapons to kill Palestinians, resources Biden can withhold if he chooses to. Biden may not be pulling the trigger any more than Netanyahu is, but he is responsible for their deaths, and should be held accountable
Congress controls foreign aid. It’s usually bundled such that it’s part of a larger funding bill. There’s very little Biden can do without opening a can of worms.
That is incorrect the foreign military financing program authorizes the president to finance procurement of defense articles and services for foreign countries and international organizations. Israel’s $11 million per day welfare check and the arms they are provided is at the purview of the president. It’s the exact same tactic that Ronald Reagan used in 1982 to stop Israel carpet bombing Lebanon. He threatened to pull back all monetary and weapons aid from the US, the bombing stopped.
Congress only controls foreign aid when it’s initially approved. After it’s approved, it’s at the president’s discretion if that funding gets cut
Perfect reasoning!
However the problem with it is that the tankies here don’t care. It’s cool now for them to hate on Biden and be outraged about things happening in a country they couldn’t have point to on a map six months ago. Too many people have tried reasoning with them and explaining the fist past the post way things work-
They’re just too stubborn.
Religious people? Being blatantly stupid? You don’t fucking say!
Here an alternative point of view:
As democrat who cares about the country you should help force your leadership to stop the genocide or stop aid and sale of arms if you want my vote.
How did you feel about Palestinians back in September? Oh you never once thought or cared about them before that?
Funny how the news told you what to be mad about, and what to call a conflict.
You should also complain to all the Arab country leaders who look at Palestinians as human refuse and have refused to help them for decades? Or are you satisfied using talking points from Saudi billionaires?
Oct. 7 explicitly was enacted to, in part, stop the normalization of relations between Saudi Arabi and Israel.
The only person showing how unbelievably ignorant and racist they are here is you.
The billionaires of Saudi Arabia want normalized relations. The people of Saudi Arabia don’t.
Why do you feel you have to switch the topic to: A) accusing me personally not to care about Palestinians before Oct, B) Arab should do more.
These two points have different discussion not related to Biden direct aid of Israel for no reason and voting choices.
By the way your points A is stubid and point B is useless since clearly you have no understanding of Arab x Israel history and UK, US support for Israel.
the least crappy option is cornel west
No. Cornel West has no experience in public office and the Presidency isn’t the place to learn on the job.
Apparently neither is being VP.
how much experience did Eisenhower have in public office?
your standard is arbitrary and irrational.
Eisenhower led multiple armies totaling in the millions in the largest war in human history. Cornel West has a background in *checks notes philosophizing.
Lincoln never held public office. lots of presidents make it their first political job.
edit: whoops. still, my point stands: there is no reason to expect anyone to have experience being president in order to elect them.
Abraham Lincoln served as member of the Illinois House of Representatives from 1 December 1834 until 4 December 1842, representing Sangamon County. He went on to serve in to United States House of Representatives for Illinois’ seventh district from 4 March 1847 to 3 March 1849. His time in between was spent practicing law. I know you’re just trying to be disingenuous, but please stop.
your accusation of disingenuousness is, itself, bad faith
Who says I would have supported Eisenhower for office?
I would have voted for Adlai Stevenson in that election.
The thing with Muslims and Arabs is that they hate each other just as much as they hate Israel. Some of the worst things I’ve heard said about Palestinians was from Egyptians and other Arabs, they look at them like they’re human garbage. But they’re loving this, because they can now openly attack Israel, which is something they love to unify to do.
Why weren’t all these Arab nations helping Palestinians before? Even now they won’t take Palestinian refugees.
This is all grandstanding, they don’t actually care about or even like Palestine
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Haha. Not sure why you’re being downvoted, he’s not even running a campaign. But somehow in the end this will be the progressives fault. Suck a dick dems.
So facilitating the murder of millions of muslims is ok, but not letting them enter your country is worse?
millions
give the numbers then.
how many palestinians died, vs how many israelis over the almost century this genocide has been raging on.
thought so.
Well the most recent conflict (which is the context of this post, wrt Biden being involved?) is currently @26k+ Gazans killed
Where did you get the “millions”?
the thread is about who facilitates what.
again, look up the amount dead in this conflict since its inception.
If you’d bother to look up the numbers you’d understand the question where you got the ‘millions’ bit
Where did you get that from?
you are probably looking at it like this conflict started just last year.
its been going since the 40s on and off. ever since the nakba, last i checked, estimates range from a little less than a million to a couple million. theres a reason for palestine’s young demographic today.
Muslims and Republicans have more in common than they like to admit. So they won’t find 4 years of Trump a big problem. Especially the ones that live in the big Muslim communities that aren’t facing much discrimination.
They agree on a lot of things - but the color of their skin and the god they respectively worship is a real big divide.
For anyone on the outside who doesn’t care which god or skin color, they look practically identical.
That’s not true. Muslims agree with Republicans on LGBT rights and similar things, but that’s about it. There’s a reason Michigan Arabs tend to vote Democrat and speaking as a Muslim that’s probably because Republican nonsense like “being poor is personal responsibility and nobody has any responsibility to help you” doesn’t resonate with Muslims.
Abortion, abstinence, women’s subservience. American Arabs vote democrat because the republicans would be happy if they were dead.
But if you asked a practicing Muslim and a republican for their views on a wide range of issues except which god you worship, you’ll find there are many more similarities than you are suggesting.
Famous for their distributing the wealth to people who need it, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar are positively wonderful places for the working class 🙄
Famous for their distributing the wealth to people who need it, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar are positively wonderful places for the working class 🙄
I mean those countries aren’t the shining examples of Islam at work so yeah. Gulf countries are like famous for this.
Which countries are shining examples of Islam at work? I’m having a hard time coming up with any that don’t have staggering wealth inequality.
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We had a leader the west didn’t like so they backed a coup that put in a corrupt dictator that they liked
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We had a leader the soviets didn’t like so they backed a coup that put a corrupt dictator in charge that they liked
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The country came out of a coup and installed a popular leader that didn’t want to play ball with the west for various reasons, so the west sanctioned the country until its economy barely functioned
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A colony was given an independence “deal” that forces them to adopt their former colonizers currency, put about half of their reserves in said former colonizers bank, and forced the newly “independent” country to sell the extraction of its natural resources to companies from the former colonizer at disgustingly cheap prices, so what should be a rich country is still poor and the officials of this former colony are bribed by the colonizers to keep the system going.
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The wealthy oil nations used their wealth to give their citizens an extremely good standard of living however either as a result of this or of other reasons (possibly related to culture but thats a different conversation), no one wanted to do menial labor so here comes the importation of cheap foreign labor
King Faisal Abdul-Aziz was a descent leader that tried to unite the middle east but he was assassinated.
And Islam allows abortion with different kinds of restrictions depending on your school of thought
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Most are dictatorships so the attitude of the government doesn’t reflect much except how greedy the elites are, but charity is big in Muslim countries. The whole “pull yourself up by your bootstraps and if you rely on others you’re a leech” attitude doesn’t really resonate with Muslims.
That said, if I had to raise an example I’d probably pick Tunisia. Not that they don’t have wealth inequality or poverty, but they’re doing decently well for themselves and have a government that’s actually trying to fix these things.
Also almost all of the non-Gulf Arab world has significant social welfare to my knowledge.
Yup, the 'save the family ’ rallys are hilarious examples of how Right wing assholes can be Christian or Muslim all the same.
1 in 200 Gazans were killed, for people who has family in that area of the world, they were someone’s old neighbour, friend or relative.
I get that not voting for Biden effectively helps the Republicans, but those groups won’t agree to be political pawns, not at least without actions supporting an immediate ceasefire first.
It’s closer to 1 in every 80 who have been killed now (26,083 out of apx 2.1 million).
1 in 200 Gazans were killed
How’d you get that? I come up with 1 in 80 using 25,000 dead and population of 2,000,000.
My numbers were from late November when it was about 10-15k. WP Source
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I dunno. They could run Clinton again.
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Then the headline would be, “Arab leaders meet with Biden.” And nobody would read it.
And pro-genocide Biden supporters would spam it as proof that the genocide all of them have always wanted is even popular with the family of those being genocided.
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Jokes on them, still didn’t read it.
I don’t think anyone is surprised that Arab leaders don’t like Biden right now. Not exactly a brave new take that would be surprising to anyone.
It sends a message, I guess. But doesn’t change anything.
Biden needs them, due to demographic shifts, to win the Midwest swing States.
You’ve got the balance of power here wrong.
It’s the Arafat playbook. Talk and talk and talk but then when you get a chance to sit at the table and make a deal, say “no thanks, I’m happy to keep things fucked”.
Talk and talk and talk, but when you get a chance to talk, say “no thanks, I already can talk”.
It’s already 1+ in 100.
Abssolutely right… so much has happened since I got those numbers in November… :(
Other than the actions Biden has already taken to get a ceasefire, including the one which happened, what specific actions would you suggest that wouldn’t damage his chances at the polls more than it gained him?
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Stop giving billions of dollars of weapons for free to a country actively committing genocide.
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Stop spreading false Israeli propaganda (“40 beheaded babies”, “only democracy in the middle east”, “human shields” etc)
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When Israel commits war crimes on camera, criticize them publically instead of running defense for them.
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Call up Netanyahu and tell him that, if he continues this war, the US will withdraw support for Israel. If it worked for Reagan, why can’t it work for Biden?
1: loses more Votes than it gains. Pure stupid to expect much less demand.
2: citation required. Shti posted in teh press are not in the control of the White House.
3: loses more Votes than it gains. Pure stupid to expect much less demand.
4: lil’ baby bibi hates Biden and loves Trump. He also knows that there is no way Biden would be stupid enough to make a threat he can’t back up. The political position and options are in no way similar to fifty years ago as anyone that knows anything about what Ronnie did knows. That is why it can’t work.Maybe it’s time America has a reset if you have people trying this hard to apologize a genocide. Just get on with the civil war.
Good thing no one did so. But do enjoy your imaginary discussion.
You’re doing it all over this post.
So the entire crux of your argument comes down to your opinion about how voters will react? And your opinion is that opposing genocide is pure stupidity?
Here is the citation you requested: Joe Biden keeps repeating his false claim that he saw pictures of beheaded babies
No, the crux of my argument is that folks trying to teach a lesson by increasing the chances of an R victory in November learned nothing form 2016 and yes, that makes anyone making the claims you made is an idiot.
One of the lessons of 2016 is that running a historically unpopular center-right candidate is an easy way to lose to Trump.
Another lesson is that a candidate who skates through the primaries on arguments of electability and “it’s their turn” end up being poor candidates in the general election.
Maybe we could learn the lesson that chastising and berating anyone left of center does not win you votes, instead it supresses turnout. It is plain stupidity to go around treating leftists with contempt and hostility but then still expect us to vote lockstep with you.
Sadly it seems the DNC did not learn any lessons, because it’s making the same awful mistakes that led directly to President Trump.
Democrats need Trump as much as Republicans do. A big bogeyman like Trump keeps the oligarchy on both sides in power. Republicans can sell salvation, Dems sell fear, they both win, and the general public gets fucked
It was exactly the “teach the Democratic party a lesson” which was the only lesson from 2016. Hillary Clinton was not in a popularity contest. And yup, the exact same mistake is being made, but it isn’t the Democratic party’s to make as organizations don’t get a Vote in the General.
It’s always the ones parroting propaganda that demand sources/citations
This is possibly the stupidest thing I’ve read in this thread.
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Ronald Reagan stopped Israels invasion with a single phone call in 20 minutes
And no, it didn’t cost him votes.
This is such a helpless ‘well what can I do’ abdication of responsibility. It’s also completely ahistorical.
Congrats on your propaganda.
Well, Biden has always been to the right of Reagan on nearly every issue.
liar
If you’re getting paid for this, whoever is doing so deserves their money back.
You’re too incompetent for this to be trolling though.
The situation is in no way similar, but don’t let actual history interrupt your fantasy. Congrats on having fallen for propaganda.
Israel was carpet bombing Lebanon in 1982, Reagan called Begin demanding the bombing stop or their government welfare checks and US weapons imports stops. The bombing stopped.
It’s you thats fallen for propaganda.
not remotely relevant. You are simply parroting talking points either provided you for that purpose or you read from such.
Damn, that’s almost as cogent as your other response of ‘liar’.
Did Biden create his own Correct The Record department, but skimp on funding it?
They don’t have to fund it when shitlib trolls do the work for free.
Russia, Russia, Russia
How many people were killed by Hamas rockets fired at malls and schools over the last decade? They had families too, but you never cared about those.
And frankly you only care now cause the news told you to, this has been going on for a long time and it’s been allowed because Arabs want Palestinians wiped out too
I know it’s been a long term conflict, I was hopeful for peaceful negotiations to happen but clearly Bibi doesn’t want that through Israeli proxy funding of militant terror groups.
I was upset at Hamas’ October 7th attack. But what has happened since is unprecedented in recent memory of that conflict. The number of Palestinian casualties is multiple times higher than the cumulative amount in the 15 years prior to October 7th 2023.
The reaction to this massacre, a systematic destruction of life and property, is inappropriate and I don’t stand for it.
You’ll surely get a better deal under trump
Right? The guy who moved the embassy and was so far up Netanyahu’s ass that he needed a flashlight. Yet people are acting like Biden is the only pro Israel voice in American politics. Let’s make it clear, EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN POLITICIAN IS PRO ISRAEL, no matter what they tell you
I’m gonna show up in Dearborn MI 6 months after the election and scoop up some real estate after the deportations.
