as a person that came from the 3rd world country and new in fediverse environment, i genuinely would like to know about this.
edit: thanks for the replies! sorry, i literally don’t know the reason since i’m not a western lol. twitter/x is too biased especially when musk openly supports trump so i came here and seeing fediverse is mostly are harris or biden (when he’s still up for the candidate) supporters. don’t know about reddit tho, i only use reddit as a forum for linux and programming stuff.
There’s only one way you can support Trump today.
You either refuse to acknowledge all the terrible things he’s done, or you approve of the things he’s done.
People who refuse to acknowledge, are going to look at all the “fake news” on this site about His Oranginess, and quickly decide that it’s nothing but propaganda and go somewhere “more reliable”.
Those who agree, stick around a little longer. They will argue and defend the horrible things, because they think there are more like them that will come out and back them up as a fellow defender of
racismmisogynyhomophobia“Good old family values”. But they will be downvoted to oblivion and have trouble finding a friendly voice. Eventually, they too will go where they can have a more comfortable discussion with people who are as terrible as they are.And ironically enough, if you went to Truth Social, and asked why there weren’t more Biden/Harris supporters there, they’d give you the exact same answer in reverse.
Not sure who down voted you. Or even why
You either refuse to acknowledge all the terrible things he’s done, or you approve of the things he’s done.
This is two ways. You literally said either / or.
Our three weapons are…
No! I have been defeated!! I now have no choice but to vote Republican! Damn you, Orbituary! <Fist waves dramatically>
How did you get that from my comment?
It’s all good. Just having fun.
The brackets were implied by OP.
I.e. “one way: (be ignorant || approve)”.
We had an opportunity years ago to fix this problem. Long before Trump ever showed up on the scenes as a political individual. We needed in schools to be teaching how to pick out real news from fake news. How to pick out fact from propaganda. Hell out to read a newspaper properly.
How to logically pick a part in argument. We chose not to. We as a society, decided not to put our money towards that. Now people read a headline, and based purely on the headline, make a statement such as “throw the guy in jail for the rest of his life for that one “.
I sat on a jury trial. It was a murder trial, if you went purely by what was in the local newspaper, you would’ve seriously questioned why the guy didn’t just take a plea deal. If you sat in that courtroom day after day, listening to it you’d realize this is a lot tougher than what you realize. we had a hard time figuring out if the guy was even in town at the time of the murder.
But for those that weren’t involved in the trial, they’re convinced the guy belonged in jail for the rest of his life. Because people didn’t sit down and really read the newspaper and ask important questions. Because we don’t hold our journalists to a higher standard and force them to give all the information And tell both sides of the story.
I have no idea how you solve the problem anymore. Because at this point, even if you tell the complete truth about any given politician, no one‘s going to believe what they’re reading anymore because there’s another so-called journalist out there saying the exact opposite and people say well I don’t know what to believe then. And can’t figure out how to critically think about this and ask questions.
Here in Lemmy we are guilty of the same sort of thing, same as over at truth social same as over at Twitter same as over Facebook.
As a society, I’m sorry for the language here, we are well and truly fucked.
I truly don’t know what the answer is.
Also sidenote 10 bucks says somebody comes back with a stupid comment of well since you don’t know what the answer is obviously you’re just saying that we shouldn’t do anything and just give up.
I have no idea how you solve the problem anymore. Because at this point, even if you tell the complete truth about any given politician, no one‘s going to believe what they’re reading anymore because there’s another so-called journalist out there saying the exact opposite and people say well I don’t know what to believe then. And can’t figure out how to critically think about this and ask questions.
Reverse cargo cult.
Neglecting public education is really going to keep biting us in the ass.
Something like half of US adults can’t read at a sixth grade level.
If we took some of the idiotic venture capitalist “it’s cat gifs on the block chain” nonsense and put it into education and infrastructure, we’d be so much better off.
I don’t really know how to get from here to there, either. Give me magic powers to Thanos snap away some people, maybe?
We needed in schools to be teaching how to pick out real news from fake news.
Obviously there are issues with education in this country but it’s always an easy scapegoat for these kinds of issues. Plenty of states have skills like this in their common core, I would venture to say you’re incorrect on that point.
Fair enough I graduated in the early 90s at that time we didn’t have it. At least not at the level that I felt that we should’ve. If I’m wrong on that, then I apologize.
No worries, you just hear a lot of misguided criticisms of the education system a lot of which are based on anecdotal experiences. I wish everyone would keep tabs on what kids are learning and have a more hands on approach to curricula.
So what you are saying is I should be volunteering for the geography classes to help reinforce the flat earth ideals? 😁
Oh fucking christ, a flat-earther. You people are even worse than the fucking round-earther scum on this platform.
I swear you people will never accept a velociraptor-shaped earth, prolly cuz your brains just aren’t big enough to process the geometry.
Edit: I really hoped the /s would not be necessary…
Did you miss the incredibly obvious joke?
If you’ve never watched the movie 12 Angry Men, do yourself a favor and watch it. You are going to love it and it has everything to do with your comment.
Thanks for the recommendation
Reddit’s early days were also far more left leaning then they eventually became.
When you have a small niche of nerds who enjoy discussing topics and ideas, then far right wing points will get downvoted to hell because they are, quite frankly, dumb, divorced from logic and the real world, and don’t stand up to actual critical scrutiny.
Reddit got more right leaning as it grew and expanded into the general population and more dummies started upvoting dumb posts, then got more right leaning when right wing political orgs took notice and started trying to influence it, and now seems even more right leaning because they’ve changed their algorithms to prioritize controversial comments and posts that get people angry because it boosts engagement.
While very true, dont discount apathy and lurking. I may have made 15-20 comments on reddit for tge 10+ yrs I was on the platform. There were so many ppl 1. That typically someone else would respond. Two reddit descended into ppl who just want to argue semantics. Here without the karma farming people have more genuine responses
Over on mastodon on the other hand… I get the feeling people brought some of the negative aspects of twitter over there. Still overwhelmingly positive but I tend to get more info on lemmy now than mastodon Imo
I don’t think there’s any less karma farming on here. People still look at their up and downvotes, and I don’t think there was a legitimate industry for selling high karma accounts on Reddit. Not one that would make a difference at scale anyways.
The problem with Mastodon and Twitter is structural, it’s based around following people, not topics. It is inherently problematic because a) personalities and status get elevated over the logic of the argument, b) following people instead of topics inherently feeds people’s egos in a problematic way, and c) a given person can use their followers problematically (brigading, etc). On Reddit / Lemmy by following decentralized topics it eliminates or reduces most of these effects, though the mods controlling each subreddit can exercise some of the same influence.
People still look at their up and downvotes
You can turn that off in the UI. I did that and it mostly makes the place more tolerable, though I do find myself peeking sometimes.
The problem with Mastodon and Twitter is structural, it’s based around following people, not topics.
I’ve long thought this but infrequently find other people who think the same!
On here (and reddit, rip) and most forums, I don’t really look at the user name. I just read the content I think that’s a better setup.
Early Reddit was very libertarian, you would not believe how big Ron Paul was. It went more to the left once it got a mainstream audience
I think a lot of the people on Lemmy came from Reddit when the whole API thing happened. It was pretty much a boycott. I assume most of the people who cared enough about that to leave were mostly left-leaning.
That’s why I’m here, at least.
Edit: not sure about Mastodon, though
I left Reddit because of the pro-genocide mods
Reddit chased away the Trump supporters before the API thing happened. When it did, some people like me who are classic-liberals and libertarians also came over. After all, Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform even when its users aren’t. When I express a political opinion objectionable to leftists, I get several times more down-votes than up-votes but I do get up-votes.
Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform even when its users aren’t
The devs are Communists and created Lemmy along Communist lines and principles. Libertarians can also agree with Lemmy’s structure though.
I think this is an example of where the left-right axis isn’t the most adequate way of viewing things. The Fediverse in general is anti-authoritarian. You can be all the way from a far-left anarchist to a far-right anarcho-capitalist and still be anti-authoritarian, just like both tankies and nazis are authoritarian.
As a libertarian liberal, what communities would you recommend? I’m sad there’s not a more active free speech community on this platform. The reddit one is such a gross conservative circle jerk rn.
I don’t have anything to suggest on Lemmy. There’s so little activity that I participate in every community where I see an interesting post, except for those communities which are specifically for people with some particular set of beliefs which I don’t share.
If you’re looking beyond Lemmy, there are are the comment sections of the SlateStarCodex/AstralCodexTen blog and the blogs it links to as well as some associated forums and subreddits. You’ll find plenty of liberal libertarians and the comments tend to be polite and high-effort, but keep in mind that a dedication to free speech means that people with opinions that can’t be discussed elsewhere participate too. It’s a bit much for me sometimes.
I used to call myself a “left libertarian” but to be frank, after learning more I’ve found that “anarchist” fits far better. And there’s a lot of interesting content out there that I enjoy. I’m not sure who all .world has defederated, but the solar punk instance is always great, our mods are great (Midwest social), some people may find them abrasive, but those are people who maybe don’t understand that when you play in someone else’s home, you play by their rules.
Also: blahaj, beehaw, and even hexbear is usually entertaining, even if I have some disagreements with them.
The point is, there’s a lot out there, depending on who you’re federating with.
Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform
This is an interesting perception, because if you mean American libertarianism then this doesn’t really make sense. Lemmy’s creators are communist and intended it to be anti-corporate. It is designed in a decentralized manner specifically to avoid situations where companies can own and profit from it.
The kinds of platforms I would see as being libertarian (in the American sense) are the diaspora of privately owned social media companies.
American libertarian just means embarrassed Republican nowadays.
The idea of federation isn’t communist
The idea of preventing private ownership and rent-seeking of communication platforms is.
Not all libertarian-leaning people are on board with corporatism; IMO freedom is for people, not businesses.
I respect it but if you’re American and trying to take the word back, I’m afraid you’re a little too late. It’s a political party now and they’re all-in on corporatism.
I’m sure even non-Ameticans can tell the difference between an uppercase and lowercase letter L.
Almost no one pays attention to the big-L Libertarian party. Ron and Rand Paul got some attention on the national level but they weren’t even members of the party (while in office) and the party itself has never been politically relevant.
I think these days the word is associated more with Silicon Valley techno-libertarians (a group I identify with). These guys favor the free market over government regulation (which isn’t really relevant to Reddit) but they’re also very sympathetic to free-as-in-speech open-source software.
Maybe you should look into why we have those regulations. - an actual libertarian
What makes you an actual libertarian?
Silicon Valley techno-libertarians (a group I identify with)
I hate to break it to you but these are definitely the worst ones. It’s what the Gadsden flag waving canned food and gun hording preppers turn into if they end up with tons of money. These are the morons that build bunkers in New Zealand and try to brainstorm ways to keep their post-apocalyptic security guards loyal to them with remote-detonated bomb collars or holding their families hostage.
The preppers are different because they want to be left completely alone. They don’t see any acceptable role for government in their lives. I don’t think they’re being realistic. Freedom isn’t free, as the saying goes.
The techno-libertarians are much more engaged with society and do see a role for government, even if that role is small and (at least according to some of them) bizarre by conventional standards. I’m not going to deny that the bunker-building types are involved in the movement. I often don’t agree with the weirder people involved, but I like that techno-libertarians are willing to hear people out and judge their ideas rationally rather than shunning them for being weird.
(I think I might have a bunker built if I was rich enough. The expected utility of it is higher than that of, say, a second yacht. Human guards are a dead end. Probably the best thing that can be done if civilization totally collapses and you manage to get inside is blowing up the entrance so that anyone who wants to get to you has to move a thousand tons of rock first. You probably won’t ever get to leave, but it’s better than what would happen if you did.)
If it’s libertarian it’s libertarian socialist. There’s no property or capital on here, posts get boosted by collective voting, not based off your following or account. There’s not even an idea of karma, your account means basically nothing here. A capitalist libertarian social media would be something like nostr or what bluesky is claiming it’ll eventually do where you completely own your account and your following and you can use that social capital as you wish.
My experience as well. Though I avoid political munis these days.
A few exist, they’re just defederated from most instances. Its Freedom of Association at work, the only acceptable form of censorship.
The Fediverse’s demographic is digitally conscious lefties and moderates that desire transparency, accountability, and greater user control.
Exploding Heads is the only Nazi instance I’m aware of, are there others?
Exploding Heads is the only one Im aware. But I am certain there are others; just need to dig for them.
Because the fascist fuckwads would be run out of town on a rail.
Yeah, this is not a nazi bar.
You haven’t seen any of the “genocide Joe” trolls?
yes I think the bigger problem here is right wing propagandists masquerading as lefties.
Are you referring to Lemmy.world?
Look, one of the more active ones. Tell us again how Cuba is a great example of communism working as intended.
Why do you believe that it isn’t? Under what pretext does my being a Marxist make me right-wing?
Oh, I’m not restarting this conversation with you. You’ve showed your colors when you told me that an article that explains my stance wasn’t an explanation of my stance. Only reason you and others like you sre not blocked is because I get a chuckle out of seeing your nonsense, plus I like to help pointing it out for others that might not know it’s nonsense.
I asked you what your definition of poverty was, and you shared an article with no reference to definition, only to rate of poverty. I wanted to know how you were defining poverty, as we can track metrics over time and analyze external factors. You were uninterested.
You threw a fit and logged off.
Ok, I’ll spell it out for you, maybe you’re just that dense. This is a quote from the link, right below the title. The literal subtitle of the article: “seven out of 10 Cubans have stopped eating breakfast, lunch, or dinner due to lack of money or shortages”.
If that’s not an explanation, then I’m sorry, maybe we have different definitions for the word. So there you go. My definition of poverty in this case is people not having food to eat.
Again, this was at the top of the article, which you’d have seen if you were interested, which you’re obviously not. As we’ve already established, only pretending to be a “lefty”
My honest interpretation is that there are actually very few right wing propagandists masquerading as lefties, but they are very effective at bringing hapless idiot lefties to their narrative.
yeah, some mix of that too for sure.
Oh you mean ml?
What on Earth are you talking about?
Careful with that troll word, there are mods that will ban you for saying it. They tell you to report trolls to them, so I did (a very obvious troll) and I got banned. Pretty neat you can’t appeal, and you can’t find out which mod did it either.
Modlogs?
Just show mod. Not which mod.
Doesn’t show what mod did it.
Use the photon UI on desktop.
Just tried it, still doesn’t show which mod is banning or deleting.
Mine didn’t show that. Interesting
You can only see which mod did it if you’re an admin
What are you taking about? Lemmy.world loves to ban those pointing out genocide supporters. Cause totally every one who wishes Israel to stop the genocide is a dirty republican. At least that’s how the mods treat them
Because it’s a bad faith argument.
There’s no candidate that opposes Israel’s actions.
It’s certainly okay, even preferable, to be critical of our administration, but it serves no point to bring it up in a discussion of the election, because it serves only to de-rail the conversation when any candidate who matters supports the genocide.
They’ve all but vanished after Biden dropped out of the race.
you’ve stopped seeing comments about Biden once he became irrelevant?
No, I stopped seeing”genocide Joe” comments. People still discuss Biden, he’s sill President.
until he fucks off soon. the whole point of genocide Joe comments is that people don’t want four more years of him.
but of course thankfully Harris says she’ll help the genocide too so we’ll see how that goes.
Shh stop pointing out basic reality to liberals, they’ll get scared and start sending you death threats
They’re popping back up again recently, attacking Harris of course
Too difficult to come up with something for Harris that rolls off the tongue as easily as “Genocide Joe.”
I’ve seen “Holocaust Harris” coming into fashion.
2·16 days agoThat’s a bad name, the Holocaust refers to a specific genocide.
Never said it was a good one, just that I have seen it.
I have seen the one or the other, but they were immediately down voted into oblivion.
sad to be trump supporter here tho lol
Its sad to be a trump supporter everywhere.
Lemmy in general is developed and maintained by Communists, for starters. FOSS in general, especially FOSS social media, is a Leftist answer to already existing Capitalist Social Media.
There are right-wing instances like Exploding Heads, which is a Nazi instance, but they are defederated from every major instance.
FOSS in general … and FOSS social media … is a leftist answer to capitalist social media …
This is how you can tell me you’re a troll and know nothing of the history of personal computing.
[Tried to approximate the quote, couldn’t copy and paste on mobile]
Edit: not sure if you were sarcastic or not, based on other comments. Either my instance or my mobile browser makes it hard to see everything in a coherent way.
Trump supporters tend to hang out in the /modlog community. Try there first.
I’ve been accused of being a Trump supporter multiple times because of comments on Gaza… as I read top comment of a dumbass calling people who denounce Harris as confirmed Trump supporters…
Anyways it’s the same in practically any niche technology, you just tend to see more leftists because they happen to be the ones creating and using said technology.
There’s still a large portion of Republicans who use cable/satellite TV, but don’t have internet besides their cellphone plan. They’d only come if lemmy became a popular de facto social platform like Facebook.
as I read top comment of a dumbass calling people who denounce Harris as confirmed Trump supporters…
i really hate this, same thing also happened to me in my country. i’m hating on the “B” candidate and people would assume i’m “A” supporter. i don’t believe any politician at all.
In addition to the other points made, not nearly as many people use Lemmy so it’s not as much of a target for bots.
The alt-right/Trump content on sites like Reddit and Twitter is amplified out of proportion by bots.
All I know is that I use socials to get away from political bullshit
me too, tbh.
They generally get defederated from the major instances.
if only we could defederate them from the USA.
They tried that once themselves, and would go back to their old ways if they could.
The ones I know are full of racist memes and incel comments, so…
I point your attention wolfballs.
I may not agree with most of the perspective, but the author’s opposition to censorship is admirable.
Yeah free speech isn’t always free, but I’d rather the freedom to read things I disagree with. Others may disagree though.
They’re here, anything pro trump is often downvoted, and most things heavily critical of the Dems are also often downvoted.
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
If you sort new, you’ll see it pop up from time to time.
It’s hard to tell sometimes, but it certainly feels like some political regimes are trying out dropping propaganda here or there into the conversation. I’m sure most of it is from genuine users, but there are some comments that just look like they’re here to stir up dissent.
However Lots of places love to call those pointing out flaws in democratic policies trump supporters unfortunately
The difference to Reddit et al is that votes don’t generally matter a huge lot in here. And you can easily hide them.
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
That is for the better.
You occasionally run into some disagreeable but unobjectionable “traditional” conservative opinions, usually around economics and the governments role in it, but trump shit isn’t that. We can be friends if you think a market solution is viable or better than an entitlement program. We can’t be friends if you think a significant portion of your fellow citizens are vermin or that we should just let terrible problems continue or get worse.
The window has just shifted so far that literal objective depictions of reality are described as “left”.
It would be nice to have some opposition, though. Even if most “conservative” media right now is little more than xenophobia, or cult worship, there do exist sound arguments against the typical internet-left positions. I don’t have a solid enough read on what comes through New in the fediverse to say whether any of that is being submitted and just downvoted off everyone’s feeds, or if all that’s being submitted is the average conservative media junk.
Still, political spaces without opposition/diversity invariably degenerate into purity contests, and circle jerking.
No, there’s really not sound arguments against them. That’s why nobody ever hears sound arguments.
Stop assuming ghosts exist because you saw a picture frame on the wall move when a large truck went by…
No, there’s really not sound arguments against them.
That’s like saying there are no trade-offs to any policies; it’s simply not true. I’m as left as they come (not American left, British), but failing to admit there are flaws or sound arguments against left-wing ideas is very ignorant.
Nonono, you misunderstand the political landscape.
Something having downsides IS NOT the same as the claims being made against things. If you think conservative politicians are arguing in good faith, you simply haven’t been listening.
There really are not sound (conservative) arguments against them.
If you do not agree, you do not know enough. Period.
If you do not agree, you do not know enough. Period.
Lol. Your arrogance is astounding.
Your pride in ignorance is pathetic. Perfect example of why public education is critically important to fund, and to fund properly.
Conservstives cling on to old, stupid ideas that are in the process of being proven wrong. Again and again and again and again.
But you go ahead and defend that hill that brought us golden gems of wisdom like “Trickle Down Economics”, private, for-profit prisons, and a lack of regulation so companies can dump what ever they want in to rivers and the ocean…
deleted by creator
Not what I said, is it? The person said there are no arguments against “the typical internet-left positions”; which I disagree with. If such positions were infallible, they would always succeed. All policies have trade-offs.
I didn’t mention “right … sound points” or their representation.
Actually it’s my b as i confused another posters point up the chain for yours, sorry
Conservative media comes through plenty in the form of business, tech and mainstream media sources 🙄
Don’t confuse the fact that Republicans have become degenerate doesn’t mean their ideas are the basis of conservative ideology.
