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I think I must be heartless.
This is extremely depressing, These babies didn’t deserve this… No one deserves this at all!
Does anyone have a link to the actual document? Please 🙏
Unless I’m blind, that’s not the whole document, but just a few pages of it. I’m not doubting it exists, but this is a lot less to send to every university printer people have access to 😩
That is more babies than the total amount of civilians killed by Hamas on October 7.
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That was the point of the action. Iran understands the hatred by the Israeli state for the Palestinian people (condoned, sometimes commended by western imperialist interests, particularly the British empire and the United States) only required provocation before Israel would commit atrocities that could be called a holocaust. So the Iranian intelligence state funded Hamas to cause trouble.
And they played Netanyahu the way Martin Luther King Jr. played US police departments.
The difference is, information from Palestine leaks out better now than it did throughout the 20th century, so the global public, especially in industrialized states, gets to look at it. We get to know what is happening and it is more frightening than we imagined.
The horror of the German holocaust, according to our own nations and their state departments, is not what was done, but to whom.
“Iran made me do a genocide” is certainly a take. One of the most takes of all time, even.
Yeah, Iran made me do a genocide the way a wife made her abusive spouse do a domestic violence. More that Iran knew the Israeli administration (Netanyahu and friends) were totally eager to accelerate the genocide (it has already been happening), and provided them an easy excuse, because drunk daddy can’t help himself.
This is why the US has been screaming at Bibi, Don’t! It’ll be just like Fallujah! It’s a trap! And Bibi couldn’t listen with that kind of temptation.
(And yes, this is one of those hazards whenever Trump is in the White House, because Trump can’t help himself either.)
Israel, and the current western response to Israel is laying plain for the entire international community that we are at our base, imperialists who won’t suffer non-whites or non-Christians. The US has yet to demonstrate otherwise, and in on the verge of possibly installing a one-party autocracy. Iran got all that it hoped for and more.
Why exactly would Iran hope for the US to be a one-party autocracy full of imperialists who won’t suffer non-whites or non-Christians?
Because that one party autocracy wants to fuck off from the rest of the world.
A lot of things.
For one thing, Trump / Project 2025 wants to kill NATO. Trump has already sown enough distrust that Germany is looking to secure military independence from the US.
Another thing is Trump and his companion ideologues are manipulable, as per his relations with Putin, Kim Jong Un and the Sauds. Even if they can’t turn him against Israel, they can certainly goad him into making brash decisions.
Then there’s the matter that the MAGA Republican Party favors loyalty over principle, which scares away its own intelligentsia, and creates a brain drain. We already see the Project 2025 plan to replace government department staff (who have education and experience) with Trump and MAGA ideology loyalists (who do not), which is going to speed the regime’s plummet into corruption and decadence.
The latter 20th century was defined by the US being the baddest dog on the field, tempered only by the USSR being right there to harrow the US and keep it busy. Now the cold war is ended, the US has just turned into a military bully for the interests of its own oligarchs. (It doesn’t help that the white Christian nationalist movement has been pushing the US towards fascist one-party autocracy since the FDR’s New Deal, as explained in Behind the Bastards two parter How the Rich Ate Christianity ).
Genuinely free, fair states are a threat to autocrats, far more than other autocrats, so seeing the US fall to one-party autocracy is absolutely on Iran’s holiday wishlist.
They may get it too, depending on if Trump wins the election, or his coup d’etat is successful, or civil war breaks out in the States.
I pray people with a victim blaming complex like this seek therapy before it’s too late.
“They made me do it” has been the main axis of Israeli Propaganda since the start and that’s just a variant of that.
How about this alternative explanation: they’re stealing Palestinian land, want to ultimatelly steal all Palestinian land, are led by Sociopaths and Psychopaths and have an extremely racist society anchored on the kind of ethnic superiority ideas that would make Klanners blush, so they were always going to do something like this sooner or later to get rid of the rest of Palestinians and get the rest of their land and do it in the most inhuman ways because a large part, maybe even most, of Israeli society see themselves as “the chosen people”, a superior ethnicity and what the previous famous group of ethno-Fascists would call übermenschen, whilst they see Palestinians as lesser people, “human animals”, untermenschen.
This is the kind of mass murdering Western nations used to do back in the days of Colonialism. It’s only shocking for us nowadays because we’ve evolved as societies and adopted Humanist values (though by their support of Israel you can see that many politicians in several countries and even a large fraction of people have in fact not evolved). Israel does in fact have Western Values, it’s just they’re the White Colonialist Values that many European nations had back in the 19th Century, not 21st Century Western Values.
We know they’re stealing Palestinian land. They were stealing Palestinian land when the British Empire installed Israel there. And yes, at that time George VI was glad to suggest it is right and proper to push out the lesser peoples so that the Jewish folk could settle there. And that’s exactly what they’ve been doing since.
However, since then, the international community has become more aware of the humanity of peoples who are not as wealthy or white as westerners, so much like the Church in the middle ages advocating only for Jus Bellum (so that expansionist kings had to find a way to justify their rightful ownership of the places they conquered) modern nations have to find a way to legitimize the regions they annex, or the peoples they war against.
So yeah, Israel was glad to have the excuse when Hamas or Hezbollah were there to provide it. And Iran props them up (provides them materiel support) so that they have the opportunity to take shots at Israel, knowing it will drive them to cruelty while the world watches, de-legitimizing the Zionist movement in the eyes of the international community (and the public).
While Israeli patriots can politely talk about the propriety of (say) price-tag killings or the treatment of Palestinians in Hebron, the State has to be more delicate. All the more so when IDF troopers are expressing glee in the opportunity to massacre Palestinian civilians down to the last child and grandmother.
But there are no humanitarian interests at the international level. All the states are still propped up by oligarchs wanting to clear land and seize resources for their own use, and at this point, as far as I can tell, we’re all going to be killed by famine and water shortage due to ecology collapse before that changes.
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Gaza has other people besides Hamas, but then again you probably love the idea of mass burial graves made from children the Isrealis “harrased.”
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Are you arguing that it’s a complete lie and hundreds of newborn children in Gaza haven’t died since October 7th?
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I would take them with a grain of salt, just as I take this with a grain of salt. But are you saying children under one years old haven’t been killed in this war? And if not how many Gazan children do you see as an acceptable number of casualties?
No, didn’t even refute the mass “harassment” claim.
For what it’s worth, I hope the Russians can get rid of their government and find freedom.
I’m confused why you felt it was necessary to point out that the ministry of health was run by Hamas then, and what bearing you felt that bright to the information?
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I still don’t see that the exact numbers In this report matter, it’s undeniable that dozens of babies and thousands of children have been murdered by the Israeli state.
If you accept that, and I don’t see how you can’t, then I don’t see how it’s possible to defend those actions.
Have you replied to the wrong person?
yeah, I have. sorry
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The only day on the Israeli calendar.
The victims fought back, which is not allowed
The vast majority of Palestinians killed were women and children. Israel didn’t fight back against Hamas, it’s goal is Genocide and if Hamas disappears then Israel won’t have their precious excuse anymore.
There is fighting back, and then there is their response.
Think of it like the Proud Boys went to Mexico and gunned down a small town and took hostages back to Texas. Mexico attacks the Proud Boys in response, then starts wiping out hospitals, schools, residential zones in Oklahoma and New Mexico, places and people that have nothing to do with the Proud Boys. And the world stands by and watches.
Do you want a closer comparison? And you don’t even need to imagine.
The US army stealing land from natives and saying the natives are the bad guys because they retaliate against the occupation.
Not sure fighting back was the best move in this case, since it caused this sort of response. But it’s not really for me to do that math
Palestine is actually an interesting A/B test: you have Gaza, that is resisting, and West Bank, that is collaborating, and you can compare the results:
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Gaza is being subjected to periodical flare-ups of genocide, causing much consternation in the world media, and despite the world governments largely continuing to back Israel, the sheer mask-off nature of the violence seems to have caused the public opinion to shift.
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West Bank is being subjected to constant low level ethnic cleansing, disposession, and removal. There are occasional pogroms, but overall it’s been quiet and ignorable. Consequently, most people forget they even exist, and those that do can get away with “hoping for peace”, thoughts-and-prayers style, as the removal continues.
You be the judge.
How have the deaths been, comparing the two?
Is your suggestion to let the Israelis take your land more slowly, so they don’t kill as many of your children?
By the way, 60,000 of them are Americans.
I wasn’t suggesting anything, I was asking what the numbers are like. I think how many people will die as a result of each policy is something that probably does make sense to consider.
I’m sorry, it’s hard to tell if someone is sincere or Just Asking Questions. In this case, the options are a slow genocide (West Bank) or a fast genocide (Gaza), so the short term numbers alone paint a misleading picture of the relative merits of each strategy. Israel’s gonna remove the brown people either way.
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There are no good moves for the oppressed group in an apartheid state. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US for fighting against the South Africa apartheid state
No but some actions have a bigger return than others. To me the October 7 attacks don’t seem like they gained much consider how many have died, but like said, it’s not for me to calculate that or decide if it’s a good exchange. Maybe Gazans consider it a good outcome, I dunno.
Gazans are disposables for every party involved besides gazans themselves. Both Hamas heads elsewhere and Bibi’s admin had a streak of luck with these attack and response since it gave them a reason to be and get international support. Although this situation wasn’t okay since the formation of Israel as a state, I don’t side with people who want either Palestine or Israel to become undone since both exist for longer than I’m here, but what I miss is a peacekeeping mission that’d at least stop the bloodshed and it’s funding.
It might be hard to get a peacekeeping mission going there since many countries would never want to get involved in the political clusterfuck that Israel/Palestine thing is. You’d need a country that’s acceptable to both sides and who wouldn’t mind getting involved when things get tough. What to do when one side strikes against the other and so on.
Yep, moreso after Balkans and after US leaving Afghan. No one wants to take responsibility and send their guys as a mere body shield, especially as other countries are not prepared to react on their troops being killed by either side, especially Israel. That, though, is the only way I see these attrocities getting stopped, because I don’t see any economical mechanism slowing down the genocide of gazans. In spite of all shit US and UN had for being involved in foreign politics, that’s the time they can do good and save people, and it’s kind of dishearting that it’s the time they’d not as long as it’s possible.
Buncha actual Hamas adults attacked Israel and killed 815 civilians
“they include two infants, 12 other children under the age of 10, 36 civilians aged 10-19, and 25 elderly people over the age of 80.”
A response was appropriate. But THIS response is Vlad the Impaler levels of overkill. Israel of all nations should know that a brutal genocide will turn world support to its victims and radicalize its survivors.
But THIS response is Vlad the Impaler levels of overkill.
I resent the comparison to one of my country’s most beloved leaders.
Sad infographic for anyone who wants it
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The infographic shows 40% killed are men. (Though it does include ‘elderly’ in the 60%.) 40% of 40,000 is 16,000. 40% of the 34000 recognized is 13,600.
So that tracks, sort of, with Israeli claims it is all Hamas.
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Those children could’ve grown up to do some amazing things in many different industries (and no, terrorism is NOT one of them), but because they’re unlucky enough to be born in Gaza, they have to deal with constant bombing, lack of food and water, damages in physical and mental health, and eventually death, before they even turn 18. Sometimes it’s even abrupt and sudden.
Has Israel not yet learned how cruel this is? And THEY’RE the ones that get all the funding to do this. Oh, but if I say anything bad about Israel then I’m “antisemitic” MY ASS. You’re killing literal children and I want the whole world to know about it.
Or you know, Hamas could have built bomb shelters for the people they’re “protecting”. Instead they built tunnels for themselves and keeping hostages, dragged Gaza into a needless war with Israel, all the while its own leaders live in the comfort of Iran’s mad regime that also funds them.
Maybe the Muslim brotherhood would help out these children by accepting them as refugees, but I guess nobody wants another Black September where PLO attempted a coup on the Jordanian king that accepted Palestinian refugees, huh?
So, it’s everybody’s fault BUT Israel.
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Tell me how the 14 pages of 0 year olds kicked the fucking wasps nest
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Or, you know, if the IDF didn’t attack civilians. How about the settlers attacking villages on the west bank, would you be ok if there was retaliation for that seeing as they just shouldn’t be doing that?
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How many pages of dead babies are necessary before this becomes unacceptable to you? 20? 50? 100? 200? Where’s the line where you step back and say “Okay this is too far”? Or is absolute genocide of the entirety of Palestine acceptable to you?
You have no fucking idea whether those babies parents supported hamas or not. You have condemned all Palestinians to death because of Hamas.
I don’t know?
How many pages of dead babies are necessary before Hamas releases the hostages.
The single reason this war is ongoing is cos Hamas still has hostages.
Uhh yeah probably not, actually.
The death toll for babies wasn’t exactly amazing for palestinians before Israel went full gloves off and just directly started dropping bombs on them.
You know the whole open air poorly kept prison camp thing wasn’t apparently the best place for keeping people alive in and Israel was tossing a few bombs and military stunts every now and again just to keep them on their toes and squeeze in the border every so often.
So, all those kids ? Nah there would still be plenty of blood spillt just not all of it.
Yea instead of even attempting to engage with any of the points I made write a witty comment. That will show that you know what you’re talking about! 👍
I literally didn’t say what you said, as a matter of fact this entire thread says that its everyone’s BUT Hamas fault. I was making a point that they could have and should have done significantly more to ensure that this tragedy doesn’t happen.
What Israel is doing isn’t good but pretending that this is a one sided issue is a ridiculous misunderstanding of the entire problem, which is by the way the theme of everyone who made up their minds in the last year regarding “which side they support”
Israel created Hamas by murdering Palestinians and illegally occupying their territory for decades. So blame Hamas all you want, but Hamas’s existence is also Israel’s fault.
So, if I extend your logic, if ISIS is America’s fault ( which in many ways it is) we should have left Iraq and Syria to succumb to it?
Yes, US imperialism is responsible for much of what is going on in the middle east. I’m not going to pretend to know enough about those conflicts to answer your question, but I’m not exactly sure how it’s relevant. But as a general rule, yeah the US should fuck off and stop interfering in other countries. It never helps and it’s never truly motivated by selfless goals. America does not support Israel because Israel is “good”, they support Israel because it’s their proxy base in the middle east. Hence why not even Democrats give a fuck that their “closest ally” is murdering children daily.
The US should absolutely stop funding Israel and Israel should immediately withdraw from the Gaza, the West Bank, and its illegal settlements. Not sure what you expected me to say.
I’ll just open with saying that I agree with your main point. Of course Israel is an ally of US, and US uses Israel to further their own gains in the region. The same can be said about literally any country in the world, though. It’s just the military & economic power of the US, and going against is a dangerous game to play. I am not defending or saying that US is good, I am just stating the obvious. Even China is not always able to stand against the US.
Now to continue to my main point:
I’m not going to pretend to know enough about those conflicts to answer your question, but I’m not exactly sure how it’s relevant.
The point I was trying to make is that Israel-Palestine conflict is hyperfocused on, in a region that is extremely unstable and seen dozens of civil & international wars, coups & human rights abuses over the last few decades. Fighting ISIS killed thousands of civilians and displaced, at least, several million people. And while ISIS comitted many crimes against humanity, Russian & NATO bombs have also killed thousands of civilians. But people don’t even know this. And don’t seem to care.
Should I also talk about Kurds, who were also fighting that war (against ISIS) and despite that Turks are literally borderline genociding them whenever they get the chance, these people do not resort to terrorism?
It makes you wonder, why in this sea of instability, wars, coups and human rights abuses everyone hyperfocuses on one particular state, which is primarily inhabited by people who have been historically persecuted, killed and displaced consistently for thousands of years?
I understand your anger, but my brother, the moment you wrote that Hamas “dragged Gaza with an endless war with Israel” you just lost it. There is a war because Israel wants to exterminate the palestinian population and feels so confident about it (because they have been so long endorsed and protected by USA thanks to their lobbies in that country) that are now openly and publicly talking about how even children should be murdered and how it is not inappropiate at all to rape palestinian prisoners up their asses to death.
And when Iran’s Khamenei says that “Israel should be wiped out” – that is not a “want to exterminate Jews”?
No, it isn’t. BUT that doesn’t mean I don’t thing that’s equally horrendous. I don’t want anybody being murdered
If they wiped out Israel there would still be Jews.
That’s a horrible statement to make about a nation that seen thousands of years of genocides, pogroms, discrimination and displacement. You’re just saying let’s continue with that.
You have to understand that Israel is there and will be there, and you need to work from there to find a solution which also accommodates Palestine ( as an independent country ). There is no future for Palestine, however, where Iran-funded terrorist organisations are at its helm.
Maybe the Muslim brotherhood would help out these children by accepting them as refugees, but I guess nobody wants another Black September where PLO attempted a coup on the Jordanian king that accepted Palestinian refugees, huh?
I think I speak for every single Jordanian when I ask you to shut the fuck up.
Thanks for this elaborate attempt at a discussion. Telling someone to fuck themselves instead of engaging with their point is kind of satisfying to see, especially from someone claiming to have the moral upper hand.
Not interested in discussion with someone deliberately lying about my country and people.
Are you disagreeing that Black September happened or what?
Why the fuck would Hamas build bomb shelters to protect civilians from Israel, when Hamas is literally funded by Israel?
But according to western military experts that are promoted by bibi himself, the IDF is the most moral army on earth and does more to mitigate civilian casualties than any army in history???
Modern weapons are so accurate, so when I see this now I’m pretty sure that it was intentional don’t let them deceive y’all by the ‘most moral army in the world’ bull shit, Their goal is to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian ethnicity, they want more and more land. It’s pure genocide yet the west still fund them what a world are we living in! Now you can’t blame a kid for joining Hamas when he grows up in all of this and see all his siblings die or his relatives. Pain will cause pain and violence will cause violence it’ll be an endless loop.
Now you can’t blame a kid for joining Hamas when he grows up in all of this and see all his siblings die or his relatives.
When you bomb the shit out of any area you claim to have terrorists in all you do is create more terrorists. It’s like the oldest concept in history that we absolutely refuse to learn because it’s beneficial not to when you need a terrorist to point at to justify your bullshit…
Israel was warned before October 7th and they decided to ignore it, They wanted this to happen in order to destruct and destroy Gaza. Netanyahu is a War-Criminal and I simply can’t wait to see him held accountable for all of that!
I sincerely hope this happens, but Israel owns our current administration, and apparently the US has veto power on the UN, which seems like a dumb idea.
But they’re gonna be future khamas terrorizts1!1!
I hate this world and almost everyone on it. Myself most of all. 100% powerless to stop any of this. I want off this hellworld.
Bitch unless you’re committing daily war crimes you had best at the very least hate yourself less than these monsters.
i like u
I really feel ya. It’s insane how, short of donating as much as we can, most of us can’t really do anything but watch this shit happen. It’s a fucking mess.
most of us can’t really do anything but watch this shit happen.
Join your local Communist party.
You managed to type four sentences on this subject and make every single one of them about yourself
I hear you, it’s been a brutal millennium so far and things look like they’ll get worse before they get better.
We’re all powerless alone, and I don’t see us being able to stop the worst of what’s to come, but there’s pressure building against Israel, against capitalism, against conservatism, against the status quo.
It’s going to be a rough ride but we need to stubbornly exist and be present and visible so that the pressure keeps building.
We’re all powerless alone
That’s the “funny” thing about it. ALONE we are powerless. The really really hard part is getting all of us together.
Media in the past that wasn’t purely propaganda for the sake of manipulating the population would have achieved this simply by the reporting done. Now all they do is give cover to the assholes committing the atrocities across the world and we have to fight with each other just to convince people what is actually happening and why it’s bad…
Divide and conquer works and it’s why we never seem to make progress. :(
ALONE we are powerless. The really really hard part is getting all of us together.
Nah dawg, that’s like our one strength and even instinct. See Bregman’s Humankind, for example!
Together we are still powerless because of the economic guardrails and class culture
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My father left this world at age 39. I’m 40 and I feel like I overstayed my welcome in this world by a decade at least.
Time to remedy that. Godspeed to the few who’ll understand. To everyone else: my father had the right idea and I don’t know why it took me this long to realize. We’ll meet again at some inky spot betweeb realms. In the meantime, good night to those who understand. See you on the flipside, maybe, one day…
I didn’t read this comment before I said I like you. I still like you.
Wish we could have been friends.
It’s too bad we can’t add MDMA to the water at 1 ppm like floride worldwide so people get nicer.
Hey man, I know that feeling. Looking through your history, you seem like a legitimately great dude with a huge heart that’s been through way more shit than anyone should have to bear. I wish I knew some magical phrase that could fix things, but I see you, I’m thinking of you, and I’m sorry for what you’re going through. I truly truly hope to see you around here again. <3
Thanks for the kind words, appreciated much!
Don’t do it. You should talk to someone.
Hey stop, I know what you’re saying bc I’ve been there myself. You haven’t any idea what the future holds is what I can tell you. There are so many good things in this world and believe it or not (I didn’t) they also come to you sometimes. Sending love your way.
Hey I mean it, the world NEEDS critical thinkers like you. I’m rereading your comments and please, don’t let those thoughts overcome your better judgement. I KNOW that’s not any ‘remedy’.
This is all your fucking fault. You sick bitch. Hope you sleep good knowing your words likely affected someone else enough to kill themselves
ironically we need less of this kind of thinking in the world
100% powerless to stop any of this.
Join your local Communist party.
Join your local Communist party.
Also eat vegan /s
Wth dude…!
Ah. just what I wanted to see opening up this app.
How the fuck do I tell Lemmy to NOT RECOMMEND me stuff like this?
Unsubscribe from planet earth
I did that already, It just gave me death.
Blocking a boring dystopia is not a bad move if you don’t want depressing reality.
I consume enough “Depressing reality” Via Twitter topics and from the news/articles. I don’t want this leaking into Lemmy also.
Also it does me 0 Good to constantly remind myself of all the dead fuckin babies In Hamas. There is NOTHING I can do to fix, help, save, or improve such an issue All is does is make me depressed and Spiral into existentialism. As horrible as it sounds I would much rather feign ignorance for most of it. All I need to know is Who is helping to stop the war and who isnt.
Yes, so block this sub, as I said.
They had it coming! Should’ve picked a different place to be born.
Being born there is the first step to becoming terrorist scum, they had it coming!
/s just in case if that wasn’t obvious
I’ve never met a Palestinian but every Palestinian I’ve ever met has been a terrorist.
Palestinians will cry for the bombing, rape, and slaughter of their people, but they continue to harbor Hamas in the vast network of secret invisible tunnels that only a trained Israeli AI can detect.
Curious.
I’ve met palestinians and I can tell you, they’re normal people.
Shocker lol Who would’ve thought…
They had it coming! Should’ve picked a different place to be born.
They certainly should have! Poor kids. (I didn’t miss your sarcasm, just adding to it)
Look what the older Palestinian kids have had to endure:
This graphic is a year old! It’s actually seventeen years since that blockade now.
I wonder why some people there might think violence is the only thing their enemy would understand. Really a mystery.
There might be an updated version at the visualizing palestine website. I was happy when they updated it to add the current conflict, but that was months after it started…
Trump would have been worse ;/s
Why the /s? This is objectively true
I’m going to go retch in the bathroom for awhile.
