I really cannot see how anyone who would vote for trump would vote for sanders. its like apples and poison ivy. I don’t get those who don’t vote in a democracy either. I hate living in this eroding time period but way the hell glad to be living when democracy is considered the standard form of government. On tope of it we get to vote for the office, and get to vote for people to run for the office, and can sign signatures to get people on the ballot to run for office. I feel like people really don’t have a good sense of human history.
Yeah I just don’t see it. They could not be more different to me. I have no idea what measure these people are using that they would flip between those two. so I get they exist but its so outside my perspective I can’t grok the individual who is like that. Its like flat earthers for me.
They couldn’t be more different to me, either, but what we think is irrelevant. Whatever their reasons, and no matter how alien those reasons might be to you and me, significant numbers of people really did flip.
Bernie would raise wages, Trump will give tax cuts. The promise is that people will have more than the minimum. Biden/Harris were telling everyone the economy is great when we all knew it wasn’t and we’re all worse off than we were 4 yeats ago.
Look at the material circumstances.
(Just… set aside that Trump’s tax cuts mostly go to the rich. It’s the narrative that sways voters more than the reality.)
I mean it was doing well vs what was given to them. Its still flabbergasts me the comments of trump for the economy and that biden caused inflation. Inflation started being unusually high in april 2021 and biden took office in january. He did not cause the inflation from 3 months as president. I mean if our system of government needs to run on narratives and not actual truth then I guess trump is the least of our problems.
The inflation stemmed from pandemic-justified price gouging on groceries and private equity purchases of rental properties. Government absolutely could have addressed this- even just continuing pandemic level food stamps would have helped immensely, but Biden ended it.
Biden pushed to take money and support away from people so he could declare the pandemic was over.
No its not. Interest rates do effect inflation and they are supposed to be lowered due to economic pressures but trump brought them to zero after obama got them back to 3 or 4 percent and he did this before covid. Thus when covid hit lowering rates was not something else they could do. continuing food stamps would help people but would certainly have increased inflation. Now given that interest rates are not the only reason and price gouging was certainly part of it and possibly the major part. They did take action on that though by going after the gouging which is action that tames inflation rather than exacerbates it. He could not have made better moves in realtion to inflation while trump could not have made worse ones.
Many who voted democrat in 2020 voted republican in 2024 because the billionaire class convinced them democrats caused inflation when democrats said they would tax billionaires.
No, blue voters didn’t vote for Republicans. This is the second thread I see you posting this misinformation when it’s not remotely true outside of ONE demographic (Latino men). Left of centre democrats just didn’t show up to the polls (and they had no reason to, tbh).
You can look up the turnout numbers yourself, it’s literally headline news.
Edit: nvm, you seem to have it out for Bernie and think Biden/Harris was a fine ticket even when Dems were asking Biden to step down. I see your game.
I agree with you (hence why I finally got my dual citizenship and voted) but a lot of people can’t see beyond their own needs. An existential reason was never going to be enough to galvanize them.
You are right of course. It doesn’t make it any easier to stomach.
Congratulations on your citizenship, for whatever that’s worth these days. Honestly, I’m emotionally affected by this election, and I’m going to say a lot of things that aren’t necessarily indicative of my overall feelings about this country. For all of our faults, it’s still a country of amazing opportunity and privilege compared to a lot of other countries on this planet. I still love it here, despite being at odds with over half of my fellow citizens on a regular basis. So really, and genuinely, congratulations on becoming a citizen, and welcome to the fold.
Do you think that privilege comes from the enlightenment of our politicians? From the population as a whole just working harder than in other places? Is it perhaps conjured from magic? Or would you consider that it was privilege derived from the well-documented and brutal exploitation of the global south?
Thank you! I’m very lucky in that I was claiming what was already a birth right through my parents, so my citizenship was really not as tough as people actually immigrating and going through the whole intrusive process.
I still don’t consider the US my “home” per se, not like my birth country, but I’ve met some wonderful people, and my state is pretty blue, so I have no doubt my governor will be fighting the orange clown tooth and nail for four years. That being said, man the political atmosphere here can be…well, let’s just say I’m getting used to the “American exceptionalism” aspects of the culture.
Idk how long you’ve been here, but this is not normal. This is very wrong, and it’s disturbing how many people don’t see how far we’ve fallen. Politics has been an ever-present and disturbing part of our lives since 2016. It wasn’t like this before. But when an attention seeking narcissist entered the race, the media outlets decided to pounce upon his every worthless word, rather than ignoring him like the incompetent joke that he is. They gave him an outsized voice when he should have none, and he’s caused nothing but harm ever since.
I don’t know what the future looks like from this day forward. It could end up being nothing more than a 4 year grift (or however many years clown show lives if less than 4), or it could end up being a serious challenge to our democracy. I’m not looking forward to it, but it is decided, so here we go.
That said, I know a lot of refugees who came to this country 45-50 years ago and their lives & kid’s lives are immeasurably better than they would be in their home country. For reasons like that, I’ll always fight for what America represents. I’m hoping some day soon Americans remember our real ideals and start living them more truly.
All anyone has regarding that is annecdotal. But in my experience many friends, family, coworkers who voted democrat in 2020 were convinced by republican ads that democrats were to blame for the inflation caused by Covid and price gouging.
Confront reality, please. Harris couldn’t replicate past voter turnout because she made no wide, progressive promises like Medicare for All, which the working class loves.
Trump offers a fake anti-establishment for people who are rightfully mad at the state. Only a working class party can direct that towards actual improvement.
Problem is obviously that a working class party wouldn’t be funded and backed by billionaire capitalists the way the duopoly is; that’s the point of liberal “democracies” — keeping capitalist parties in power.
Going passed the disinformation in your first line. The people who vote are all that matter in a democracy. The others are basically dependent on their decision making regardless of if its because they can’t or won’t.
By design. Voting day is not a holiday and on a work day. Poor and working class are disenfranchised as a result. Fewer turn out because it’s not worth skipping work to stand in voting lines for hours.
Going passed the disinformation in your first line.
lmao “It’s disinformation when someone calls me unintelligent and uninformed”. What happened, did you get tired of people telling you “that’s not what ad hominem means” and reach for the next rhetorical pejorative that crossed your mind?
Are you justifying insulting folks in online debate? Do you think insults are appropriate to debate? This is a much simpler issue that does not even get to logic or reason as is dead on arrival once one gets that crass.
I made no value judgements about insulting people (you don’t really need to specify “in online debate”), I was amused by the fact that you called it “disinformation” when it was just an insult and pointing out how silly it was.
yeah the disinformation was me trying to be clever in my reply. yes it was clearly and insult but since it was one that was based on the idea that the replier has some knowledge about my level of intelligence or how well informed I am (although the statement made ironically usually implies an and when phrased that way) I decided to call it disinformation. IE its my way of saying I am well educated, score well on tests, and have a much broader knowledge set than at least most people I know and I have worked in academia and live in a major metropolitan area (note if you limit it to academia my knowledge set becomes significantly more average)
It just makes you sound like a dweeb because “disinformation” is the dem-aligned version of “fake news”. I don’t have the slightest interest interest in your life story.
thats nice but now an insult once again rears its head in the discourse even if softened by making it somewhat in direct. Unfortunately I had to explain why I used the word when explaining why I used the word ever if you were uninterested. Its just a thing in discourse. Someone brings up a particular point and you assume they are interested in knowing the why around it.
Last I saw something like 55% of the populace looks like it voted for trump. In these crazy pants times I do not see bernie winning.
I’m not impressed by this analysis.
I really cannot see how anyone who would vote for trump would vote for sanders. its like apples and poison ivy. I don’t get those who don’t vote in a democracy either. I hate living in this eroding time period but way the hell glad to be living when democracy is considered the standard form of government. On tope of it we get to vote for the office, and get to vote for people to run for the office, and can sign signatures to get people on the ballot to run for office. I feel like people really don’t have a good sense of human history.
We literally saw it happen. It is well documented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders–Trump_voters
Yeah I just don’t see it. They could not be more different to me. I have no idea what measure these people are using that they would flip between those two. so I get they exist but its so outside my perspective I can’t grok the individual who is like that. Its like flat earthers for me.
They couldn’t be more different to me, either, but what we think is irrelevant. Whatever their reasons, and no matter how alien those reasons might be to you and me, significant numbers of people really did flip.
That’s how the petty bourgeoisie rolls.
Um. I have seen it and they are just antiestablishment. Period. No other guiding light than that.
Bernie would raise wages, Trump will give tax cuts. The promise is that people will have more than the minimum. Biden/Harris were telling everyone the economy is great when we all knew it wasn’t and we’re all worse off than we were 4 yeats ago.
Look at the material circumstances.
(Just… set aside that Trump’s tax cuts mostly go to the rich. It’s the narrative that sways voters more than the reality.)
I mean it was doing well vs what was given to them. Its still flabbergasts me the comments of trump for the economy and that biden caused inflation. Inflation started being unusually high in april 2021 and biden took office in january. He did not cause the inflation from 3 months as president. I mean if our system of government needs to run on narratives and not actual truth then I guess trump is the least of our problems.
The inflation stemmed from pandemic-justified price gouging on groceries and private equity purchases of rental properties. Government absolutely could have addressed this- even just continuing pandemic level food stamps would have helped immensely, but Biden ended it.
Biden pushed to take money and support away from people so he could declare the pandemic was over.
That’s truth. Recognize it.
No its not. Interest rates do effect inflation and they are supposed to be lowered due to economic pressures but trump brought them to zero after obama got them back to 3 or 4 percent and he did this before covid. Thus when covid hit lowering rates was not something else they could do. continuing food stamps would help people but would certainly have increased inflation. Now given that interest rates are not the only reason and price gouging was certainly part of it and possibly the major part. They did take action on that though by going after the gouging which is action that tames inflation rather than exacerbates it. He could not have made better moves in realtion to inflation while trump could not have made worse ones.
55% of the vote, 20% of the population. Democrats stayed home.
Many who voted democrat in 2020 voted republican in 2024 because the billionaire class convinced them democrats caused inflation when democrats said they would tax billionaires.
Imagine what they would do to Bernie.
No, blue voters didn’t vote for Republicans. This is the second thread I see you posting this misinformation when it’s not remotely true outside of ONE demographic (Latino men). Left of centre democrats just didn’t show up to the polls (and they had no reason to, tbh).
You can look up the turnout numbers yourself, it’s literally headline news.
Edit: nvm, you seem to have it out for Bernie and think Biden/Harris was a fine ticket even when Dems were asking Biden to step down. I see your game.
I understand your point, but preventing another 4 years under the walking orange disaster is a pretty good reason.
I agree with you (hence why I finally got my dual citizenship and voted) but a lot of people can’t see beyond their own needs. An existential reason was never going to be enough to galvanize them.
You are right of course. It doesn’t make it any easier to stomach.
Congratulations on your citizenship, for whatever that’s worth these days. Honestly, I’m emotionally affected by this election, and I’m going to say a lot of things that aren’t necessarily indicative of my overall feelings about this country. For all of our faults, it’s still a country of amazing opportunity and privilege compared to a lot of other countries on this planet. I still love it here, despite being at odds with over half of my fellow citizens on a regular basis. So really, and genuinely, congratulations on becoming a citizen, and welcome to the fold.
Do you think that privilege comes from the enlightenment of our politicians? From the population as a whole just working harder than in other places? Is it perhaps conjured from magic? Or would you consider that it was privilege derived from the well-documented and brutal exploitation of the global south?
Thank you! I’m very lucky in that I was claiming what was already a birth right through my parents, so my citizenship was really not as tough as people actually immigrating and going through the whole intrusive process.
I still don’t consider the US my “home” per se, not like my birth country, but I’ve met some wonderful people, and my state is pretty blue, so I have no doubt my governor will be fighting the orange clown tooth and nail for four years. That being said, man the political atmosphere here can be…well, let’s just say I’m getting used to the “American exceptionalism” aspects of the culture.
Idk how long you’ve been here, but this is not normal. This is very wrong, and it’s disturbing how many people don’t see how far we’ve fallen. Politics has been an ever-present and disturbing part of our lives since 2016. It wasn’t like this before. But when an attention seeking narcissist entered the race, the media outlets decided to pounce upon his every worthless word, rather than ignoring him like the incompetent joke that he is. They gave him an outsized voice when he should have none, and he’s caused nothing but harm ever since.
I don’t know what the future looks like from this day forward. It could end up being nothing more than a 4 year grift (or however many years clown show lives if less than 4), or it could end up being a serious challenge to our democracy. I’m not looking forward to it, but it is decided, so here we go.
That said, I know a lot of refugees who came to this country 45-50 years ago and their lives & kid’s lives are immeasurably better than they would be in their home country. For reasons like that, I’ll always fight for what America represents. I’m hoping some day soon Americans remember our real ideals and start living them more truly.
According to the numbers: independents who voted democrat in 2020 voted for Trump this time. A major reason for this was who they felt was responsible for inflation.
Ok bro, and what about the DEMOCRATS that didn’t vote this time around??
How did Harris lose 10-15 million votes + Trump lost 2 million votes from 2020 if EVERY INDEPENDENT from 2020 voted Trump?
All anyone has regarding that is annecdotal. But in my experience many friends, family, coworkers who voted democrat in 2020 were convinced by republican ads that democrats were to blame for the inflation caused by Covid and price gouging.
We literally have the numbers, it’s called “counting the ballots”. What in the post-fact world?
This has to be a troll.
Voter turnout was a record high never before seen in 2020 because of the pandemic.
Less people voted overall in 2024 because no pandemic.
Not rocket science.
Stayed home, or had their votes discarded because of hanging chads? We’ll never know because there was no challenge issued.
Confront reality, please. Harris couldn’t replicate past voter turnout because she made no wide, progressive promises like Medicare for All, which the working class loves.
55% of the electorate who care which is sorta more sad sounding.
…rather presumptuous that non-voters were democrats…
Compared to last election, several million were people who recently voted Democrat, yes.
About 16 million, I believe.
What no political theory does to a mfer
Trump offers a fake anti-establishment for people who are rightfully mad at the state. Only a working class party can direct that towards actual improvement.
Problem is obviously that a working class party wouldn’t be funded and backed by billionaire capitalists the way the duopoly is; that’s the point of liberal “democracies” — keeping capitalist parties in power.
This is why citizens united is basically the worst thing to come out of the millenia. So far. In the US at least.
You are not intelligent or informed. 20% voted him in. 55% of the people who voted comes out to about 40% of the eligible voters nationally.
Going passed the disinformation in your first line. The people who vote are all that matter in a democracy. The others are basically dependent on their decision making regardless of if its because they can’t or won’t.
Why do different elections have different vote totals? Why is non-voting a significant bloc?
By design. Voting day is not a holiday and on a work day. Poor and working class are disenfranchised as a result. Fewer turn out because it’s not worth skipping work to stand in voting lines for hours.
Yes, why does this count vary from election to election?
Shit. I think I replied to the wrong comment with this. Sorry.
lmao “It’s disinformation when someone calls me unintelligent and uninformed”. What happened, did you get tired of people telling you “that’s not what ad hominem means” and reach for the next rhetorical pejorative that crossed your mind?
Are you justifying insulting folks in online debate? Do you think insults are appropriate to debate? This is a much simpler issue that does not even get to logic or reason as is dead on arrival once one gets that crass.
I made no value judgements about insulting people (you don’t really need to specify “in online debate”), I was amused by the fact that you called it “disinformation” when it was just an insult and pointing out how silly it was.
yeah the disinformation was me trying to be clever in my reply. yes it was clearly and insult but since it was one that was based on the idea that the replier has some knowledge about my level of intelligence or how well informed I am (although the statement made ironically usually implies an and when phrased that way) I decided to call it disinformation. IE its my way of saying I am well educated, score well on tests, and have a much broader knowledge set than at least most people I know and I have worked in academia and live in a major metropolitan area (note if you limit it to academia my knowledge set becomes significantly more average)
It just makes you sound like a dweeb because “disinformation” is the dem-aligned version of “fake news”. I don’t have the slightest interest interest in your life story.
thats nice but now an insult once again rears its head in the discourse even if softened by making it somewhat in direct. Unfortunately I had to explain why I used the word when explaining why I used the word ever if you were uninterested. Its just a thing in discourse. Someone brings up a particular point and you assume they are interested in knowing the why around it.