Let’s not cherrypick scenarios to try and pretend Linux is easier than Windows. Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options, never mind putting them into a terminal window where they could seriously fuck up their machine. What about clicking the download link on a webpage, clicking next a few times and having them software on your machine, compared to having to build something from GitHub (how many people here have never had to do that?).
Unless you have a system without a GUI, you don’t need to open a terminal in order to update or install stuff. There is a GUI for that. And no, you don’t need to build stuff from GitHub for normal user stuff…
Not using the terminal is like buying a race car and not using the higher gears. I mean, you can, but what’s the fucking point?
I have a lot more fun in my performance car avoiding the top gears, actually. Like after 3rd im already losing my licence on the spot and getting bent over by the law, higher gears are just that but worse.
I tried that on linux, it doesn’t work if you want to do more than browse the web and other basic stuff.
You can do some seriously advanced stuff on windows using only GUIs
We were talking about normal user stuff that normal users do, not “seriously advanced stuff”… And I agree that most normal users probably don’t want to use terminals because they are not familiar with them. But normal users probably don’t and shouldn’t do “seriously advanced stuff”, no?
Yes, if you are trying to do “serously advanced stuff” (whatever that means), chances are you will probably need a terminal (or a terminal will at least be easier), but you shouldn’t be doing “seriously advanced stuff” unless you know what you are doing anyway…
I just wanted to install steam, but it wasn’t in the package manager list.
Then I tried apt-get and that didnt work, I forgot why.
You don’t have to do seriously advanced stuff on linux to run into issues without using the terminal.
My point was, even if you actually do some advanced stuff on windows you still don’t have to use the terminal.
It’s not realistic that you don’t have to use the terminal on linux if you want to do any more than web browsing and some text editing, etc.
That doesn’t mean that linux is bad, but let’s be realistic about what it is.
To install Steam on most distros with popular DE’s, you click the software store to open the software store. If Steam isn’t listed in the front page then just click the search box and start typing Steam.
When you see it, click the install button.
When it is done open it by clicking the Open button or pressing the Windows (or Super) key and type Steam. Click it when you see it.
Weird, I would expect Steam to be in the Ubuntu repos (assuming that’s what you were using, since you mention apt), but maybe not. As for apt, or apt-get, they are just the terminal equivalent of the GUI package manager (synaptic? it’s been a minute since I ran ubuntu), so if something isn’t in the repos, apt at the terminal won’t find it either. If it’s not in the repos, you should be able to download and install steam from the website just like you would in windows. It gives you a .deb file which will launch just like an executable installer in Ubuntu. But to your point, yes, sometimes things in linux take a little extra thinking to get to work. Getting accustomed to the way Linux works can help overcome hiccups like this. Windows has many quirks as well, it’s just that if you use WIndows often you know your way around them.
That experience is highly dependent on the Linux distro you’re using. Steam comes preinstalled on gaming-centric distros like Nobara or Pop!_OS. More “general purpose” distros like Mint or Ubuntu might require adding an apt repository before you can install steam from their GUI package managers, but adding an apt repo can be easily accomplished with a GUI as well.
Basically, if there’s no guide for installing steam for a given distro, or the process of installing steam is more than a couple easy steps, that specific distro probably isn’t well suited to run steam.
Let’s also not conflate “ease” with historical behavior.
Taking previous experience out of the equation, it is easier to type
apt upgradeand reboot to update your entire system than to click through 300 times in the system and multiple apps with reboots.That is a fact.
You don’t even need the terminal. There is a interface to update if you are using a DE.
Like 3 clicks lol
Huh? 3 clicks to update Windows, Adobe, Office, that random text editor, VSCode, Steam, on and on and on…
- Open powershell
- Type Winget upgrade --all
- Hit enter.
It’s the same as most Linux distros, just different commands / syntax.
Huh, looks like that would do my list above except the Adobe Suite. A shame that’s not on by default. Good info.
This applies to pretty much all “Linux good, Win/MacOS bad” memes. I just assume that people either aren’t really serious about them and it’s just tongue in cheek, or they don’t have any contact with regular people.
I used to work as a(n assistant to the) sysadmin and the things I got called over never stopped to amaze. For instance, there was a case when software was updated on the work machines and I got called because some lady couldn’t use Adobe Acrobat. “It is asking me something, I don’t know what”. I come over and it’s just a TOS Accept/Decline window.
Some people do not understand computers to an extent that they can lock up in a state of confusion when a button has been moved 100px in any direction from its usual position.
or they don’t have any contact with regular people.
This gets my vote, the memes are so disconnected from reality they feel forced and not funny
Naah, i think they’re just ragebaiting all the MS fanboys.
It works too judging by all the shit in this forum.
The meme isn’t funny; but some of the reactions it provokes are hilarious. Though some of them are obviously counter-ragebait too. “Akshually i never have to restart to update windows since 2008”. :)
Most normal people only ever use the browser. Even image or video editing is niche for the average person
been using linux for a few years both on servers and my pc and I never had to build sth myself
Let’s not cherrypick scenarios to try and pretend Linux is easier than Windows. Most normal people are…
Let’s not cherry pick users then. I don’t care about your normal users. My experience is better on Linux.
Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options
Sadly no. They should be nervous if it’s about making changes to their system. In reality however Windows conditioned them to just click the button labeled “Yes” or “Okay” without even reading the pop-up in the first place.
Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options, never mind putting them into a terminal window where they could seriously fuck up their machine
Maybe this is a problem that we should be addressing, rather than just making technology more of a black box, and raising generations of people who have no fucking concept of how any of it works.
Lots of people don’t care enough to learn
Those that do probably don’t go to linuxmemes though.
There’s also many people who can’t afford technology, you know?
But this is the classic Linux user mentality; Linux shouldn’t get easier, users should get smarter.
If computers can be easier to use then why should people instead sacrifice loads of time learning how to operate them? Most people have other things to be getting on with.
and raising generations of people who have no fucking concept of how any of it works
Only two generations were got to be technologically literate.
Greatest and Silent generations helped create computing, Boomers helped create important software such as DOS, Gen X and Millennials helped develop the Web, Gen Z is still going into computing and development jobs and Gen Alpha is too young to consider
Compiling from GitHub is cherry picking the worst case especially for “most normal people” and frankly they should be using the software store GUI in their DE to install and update software with nice easy buttons to click.
Frankly software management for a normal person generally is easier on Linux than it is on Windows for stuff made to run on Linux.
But don’t worry someone will respond with nvidia’s shitty proprietary drivers.
Been using Linux off and on since 2003-ish. I remember the days of having to compile applications and having to download various dependencies. Linux now is so streamlined and easy. Minus gentoo.
When you make fun of something that really isn’t an issue it just makes your side look worse. Windows has real problems, but installing shit ain’t it.
My dad can install anything on windows with clicks, he can’t do shit with a terminal.
I’m a power user and love GUIs. I’ll use git desktop all day everyday, instead of typing shit in a command line. It’s one button press vs typing paths and hoping you don’t misspell shit.
I don’t really get the whole command line fetish, there are no extra points in life for doing things the harder way.
Check the name of this community again.
Power users are just regular users with an ego.
GUI is like fast food, sure you can eat it and enjoy it, and you will live to see another day, but it’s inferior in every way to everything else. The real problem is that people start acting like fast food is the default food and start looking at people who eat raw or cook their own food or pay for food at a restaurant as being full of themselves.
There are countless real advantages to CLI over GUI, but allowing people to use their computer effectively by fumbling around isn’t one of them.
Ah, yes. I also love it when I search for firefox on my new PC with Edge (without adblocker) and get sponsored malware in the results.
I still use windows but I think installing software on Linux is way more convenient. Especially with the AUR.
Yay -S app is hard? Or apt install app? Or flatpak?
Being used to a habit doesnt make the habit the default way. Humans adapt quickly.
apt install funbox funbox not found apt install fun-box fun-box not found apt install openfunbox openfunbox not found Google openfunbox “use apt install open-funboxxx”
That is way yay is superior 🤓
All of that is harder than a double click, yes.
Ok i double clicked on my desktop, nothing happened. Can you elaborate?
You’ll figure it out. You seem very bright.
You don’t
You are as clever as you are wise.
You can double click on pamac and synaptic too. You just seem slow. Double click on App images too. You just giving yourselves a title of " power user" doesn’t make you one.
Pot calling kettle black.
There are not msny apps installed in windows using only a single double click…
A simple analogy is, would you rather have keyboard with a-z and symbols you can use to build words/sentences, or would you want a wordlist you can scroll and click, while expanding words in groups, and having to find non-frequent words with a lot of difficulty to make up sentences.
Command line use is harder if you come from gui. But the main use case of command line are:
- automation: anything you can do in a command line, can be copied in a script,
- uniformity: every software now has almost the same format of use,
- flexibility: gui almost always has less options than command line, and many times options are hidden within a lot of tabs and options.
- Auto complete: whenever someone complains about terminal being hard to use and spelling mistakes I think about this. I think many people that come from GUI don’t know about auto-completion on terminal. It’s easy to see which options are available, easy to choose files, wildcards for multiple files, and all that
- piping: command line allows you to chain one command with another. You have a command to list all your music files, chain that with a search command to search files within them. Now if you need to search in a python code, you use the same search command, just different command to read the file. You basically have lego blocks (old ones) that can be used to make anything.
I can understand people being afraid of command line when they start, but I think many people come with biases and don’t use good terminal and other tools to make things easier.
IDK, but I more often had issues with installing apps to Linux than to Windows, usually dependency-hell related ones, but once I had trouble enabling snap on Linux Mint.
but once I had trouble enabling snap on Linux Mint.
Seems like a win
Mint activity tries to protect you from using snap.
If you’re enabling Snap on Mint, you might as well install Ubuntu.
I don’t know about all the arguing and snark, but… I’ve been using Ubuntu (laugh it up) on my work laptop for the last 3ish years, and the vast majority of the time it really is “click install updates. wait 2 minutes. ok every program on your computer is up to date, just don’t forget to restart Firefox”. Can’t think of a time where updating sucked. Sometimes I even go through the terminal just because it makes me feel cool to be a hackerman.
I dread updating my windows pc at home. Cuts into my WoW time too much.
Coincidentally my windows PC needed to update when I got back to it. It took like 15 minutes and 2 restarts. I legit pulled out my Ubuntu laptop and Sudo apt-get upgraded that bitch just to flex on Bill Gates.
I can’t laugh it up as I use Ubuntu with a K.
I’ve switched over a year ago and that’s the thing that, looking back, sticks out to me the most as well. It’s just insane that practically every application I used had its own update routine. Lesser used apps I had to update every single time before using them. Just constant interruptions everywhere.
Winget is a step in the right directions, but it still has to build upon and work around that same shaky foundation, and it shows.
Still pretty ez
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This kind of reads as being addicted to the smell of your own farts?
Nothing in that godawful, arcane, confusing black screen with white text is ever going to be better than clicking on buttons that have English words I can actually understand.
If you were raised by the matrix and like doing things the hard way with memorized commands, that’s fine with me and kind of cool in a way, but it is definitely the hard way.
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Most games on Steam work just fine when you turn on Proton. Gaming on linux has come a long way.
I mean they are. I game constantly and use a Linux only machine. The only games that don’t work are crappy anti cheat games from Epic. And they are crappy. So who cares?
I duel booted just for those and it wasn’t worth the headache. Linux is far superior in every way.
They are. I have about the same success rate with Proton and WINE(via Heroic Launcher) as to when I still duel booted Windows. If you’re talking about games with rootkit anticheats, I never played those in Windows anyway.
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Proton comes with steam, and you can get other versions on top of it if you want.
If you’ve got steam, you can run games through proton very easily
I just use Mint. Just think of Proton as a feature of Steam. I just pick a game from my Steam library and select Force Compatibility mode on and install. Heroic Launcher (for GoG and some other things) is a few more steps, but I didn’t need a guide to figure it out. Heroic lets you choose either Proton or WINE, so I installed Steam first to minimize confusion.
Oh, and another nice feature of Heroic is that it will grab the Linux binary if it’s available somewhere even if that binary isn’t available on GoG. I was surprised that it grabbed the native client for Factorio instead of the windows version that’s on GoG.
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Probably, but I’m already running ancient hardware and I tend to favor retro and indie games, so I’m not the best to ask about that. Some people do report better performance under Proton though. Windows has a lot of bloat that doesn’t exist with WINE/Proton running in Linux.
It doesn’t get much better than Digital Foundry’s coverage on the matter.
Spoiler alert
Performance is about similar. So no significant performance issues.
The overhead added by Proton, compared to the CPU time consumed by the actual game, is minimal. The greatest benefit is that you don’t have dozens of Windows services hogging half of your memory and CPU.
Some games have some quirks that can cause performance issues when running under Proton. Deathloop, for example, was good on Windows, but unplayable on Linux with the same hardware (Ryzen 5 2600, 16G RAM, RX 6750 XT). There was massive stuttering even on minimum graphics, and every level took several minutes to load. It works now, but since then I’ve upgraded to a 7800X3D, so I’m probably just brute-forcing my way through the same issues.
That completely depends on the game. Many play just as well if not better, some play worse or not at all. Check out a site called ProtonDB for a huge list of games and their level of playability.
Moving the goal posts from OS handling to games is an admission that you know you are wrong.
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I usw Debian and all my games run just fine and are easy ti install. I have a 1k+ lib with various titles.
Honestly, in terms of ease to play, SteamOS (or clones like Bazzite) don’t
do underfall short of Windows. Heck, I’d argue they might even be easier.The real issue is anti-cheat. But that’s just the next hurdle we’ll have to overcome.
Edit: TIL that the expression “to do under” has no place in English.
Another alternative for your expression might be ‘to do less’ as i steamos doesn’t do less than windows. Or ‘do worse than’. I would say even ‘steamos doesnt under-do windows in terms of gaming’ would work but it sounds more awkward. Mind if i ask what language the expression ‘do under’ is from? Its neat, i like it. English sucks in a lot of ways. Also agree with everything you said about OSes. I had tried linux in the past but mostly stuck to windows for gaming, then i got a steam deck and ill never install windows ever again.
Or ‘do worse than’.
I think I like this one as well. Basically, as you’ll see later on, the expression is (probably) best translated as ‘to be inferior’. Combined with the negation that’s brought with “don’t”, we could rephrase the sentence as ‘Honestly, in terms of ease to play, SteamOS (or clones like Bazzite) aren’t inferior to Windows.’.
‘steamos doesnt under-do windows in terms of gaming’
Another one that I like 😜. But, the double ‘do’ is indeed a bit awkward.
Mind if i ask what language the expression ‘do under’ is from?
Sure! It’s an expression found in Dutch. Heck, to be more precise, it’s a verb that can be split: ‘onderdoen’, but also ‘doen onder’. The literal translation would be, as you’d expect ‘underdo’ or ‘do under’. Here’s the (English) wiktionary entry.
Also agree with everything you said about OSes. I had tried linux in the past but mostly stuck to windows for gaming, then i got a steam deck and ill never install windows ever again.
Valve has truly outdone itself. While I only started using Linux after Proton’s release, the horror stories from the pre-Proton era still send shivers down my spine.
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Apologies. Allow me to clarify.
I meant that it’s not harder than Windows, when it comes to playing games. And I even made that claim stronger by proclaiming that it’s probably even easier.
Edit: SteamOS is the operating system found on the Steam Deck. It’s basically Arch Linux (btw), but with Valve’s (very) special sauce. It’s what you’d expect from your average game console; which is a good thing*.
Can you run league on Linux? I can’t run it on my windows anymore cause if some security thing lol
We were able to, up until Riot chose to mess it up for everyone (including us).
Missing dependency? Don’t you like living away from your parents?
I don’t like windows either, but updating with Winget in terminal works pretty good. Not as good as with Linux, but better than downloading every app via browser.
The Windows updating experience, both the system and apps via the Microsoft Store is so fucking bad it’s unbelievable. Shit just stops working all the time, updates fail, grinds the whole system to a halt etc.
For several years now I’ve been unable to update apps in the Microsoft store in one go, I have to open it, click “get updates” and the circular progression bar goes to about 1/5 and then just stops. So I have to close the app, wait a few minutes, open it again and then press the “play” button for every single app that has updates for the download to actually start, nothing else works. It’s been the same for Windows 10 and 11 across four different computers.
There was a Windows 10 update several months ago, might even have been last year that just failed for a ton of people and it took months before it was fixed.
You people always come off as old people on infomercials.
Anyways Linus desktop is a mess. You are delusional if you think it’s easier. Maybe more efficient workflows for certain things but easier is a lol.
I appreciate Linux for how well it can handle single-purpose tasks, like if I wanted a media centre or such, but after daily driving it for 3 years on my Desktop I’ve had enough. Anyone who thinks it’s easy has a lot of spare time they wish to invest into a thing that’s supposed to just work.
I love it for long running services eg *ardar + Plex but the desktop is nearly unusable.
Ubuntu out of the box requires you to install pulse audio, grab your device id via cli, and then run a script at bottom to set that device as the default speaker.
Ubuntu out of the box needs scripting just to deal with an audio source that gets turned off and on. And zealots will scream it’s ready for everyone on steam to use.
When was the last time you installed Ubuntu?
I’ve installed Ubuntu a bunch and never had to do that
3 months ago. You don’t have an audio source that gets removed.
Lol never had that issue either
Anyways Linus desktop is a mess. You are delusional if you think it’s easie
Use it before saying shit that’s so blatantly stupid
Have a nix box upstairs. It’s much more of a pain in the ass than any windows install. Year of the Linux desktop in year 20xx 🤣
Windows side of things is getting better though, thanks to winget. Not perfect and it f’s up with certain packages but already a lot better than updating by hand.
Windows is not getting better,
CoPilot, Recall, all more unwanted spyware…UniGetUI is a good way to maintain software on Windows in a Linux fashion through package managers,
however that does not change that the underlying OS is pure spyware.Sure, but since the meme was talking updates my response is about updates only as well.
get an antivirus that actually works and then use either policy plus or group policy to delay windows updates
Delay feature updates by 365 days
Delay quality updates by 30 days
semi-annual channel
Disable preview builds
then use O&O shutup10 ++ to disable the bullshit and you’re golden.
I’m not paying for pro
Are people still buying Windows after the invention of KMSPico ?
“Here have this brand new house!!”
“But you still have to smack down a few walls, disable the cameras we added, find a way to go trough your door without having your anus print registered with us, and keep us from moving your furniture to our warehouse, all for your convenience ofcourse.”
As soon as I realized that Microsoft laughs at people trying to harden Windows I switched to Linux and never looked back. Microsoft doesn’t care about you hardening it and they don’t care about cracked versions in the slightest. You’re a statistic with an advertisement in your home and you’ll still be making money for them.
You’re a statistic with an advertisement in your home and you’ll still be making money for them.
They’ve not making any money off me after the first sale. I have an ad-blocking DNS in my router and a system-wide adblocker on every PC I have
You failed to understand my point completely.
- You’re a statistic: Your Windows installation is used in the metrics that software developers (such as game developers) use when considering what platforms to support
- An advertisement in your home: Whenever somebody visits you, uses your computer, or talks about computers with you, you are showing them that you support Windows by using it which is a form of advertising.
- You’ll be making money for them: Microsoft makes money on a macro scale. As I said, they don’t care about you bypassing licensing, blocking stuff, or anything similar. You use Windows, and because everybody just follows that same mentality, they are getting big money from companies and computer vendors, because they have huge monopoly.
Tbh, with stuff like Winget and the respective GUI apps the process for installing or upgrading software is pretty much the same nowadays.
Genuinely the only people who use Winget or choco are Linux users who have to use Windows.
Or anyone that does automation. Pretty much any Windows sysadmin.
WinGet: Am I a joke to you?
Winget-ui is great, except Microsoft hasn’t figured out to conceptually make two installs of the same product get treated the same – absolutely pathetic that if you install VLC from their website you can never ever ever use Winget VLC without uninstalling the other.
That does work for me in general, might be a problem with the specific app where the 2 builds are somehow incompatible
Happens on…maybe 30% of installs
Yes
WinGet, choco, scoop, &c, they all have strengths and weaknesses, which is why I had to write this: https://github.com/brianary/scripts/blob/main/Update-Everything.ps1
It’s also why I use Linux at home.
You need to update a bunch of separate things on Linux too, though. For example, apt or dnf, rpms and debs that aren’t in a repo (although Deb-get handles some of those), Flatpak, Snap, fwupd for firmware, plus language-specific things (npm, dotnet, cargo, Python, etc). At least the UIs handle a lot of it now.
That’s why I use NixOS. 100,000 packages so you really found something niche if it didn’t have it
Chocolatey is the best option I’ve found for this on Windows:
Chocolatey was created by Rob Reynolds in 2011 with the simple goal of offering a universal package manager for Windows. Chocolatey is an open source project that provides developers and admins alike a better way to manage Windows software.
You can install & uninstall software from the command line and update everything installed through it with one command.
It’s not a real package manager of course. It can’t update the operating system, and Windows applications aren’t built for modularity and shared libraries the way Linux applications are. But it does automate application management like nothing else. I highly recommend this if you use Windows.
There’s winget now too, which is the official Windows package manager. I’ve used it a couple of times now and worked as expected, not sure how it compares to chocolatey outside of simple app installs though.
I love winget, at least for the initial installation. No more having to search the the download and click through a gui. Just one or two commands (two if searching for the id) and done.
I always prefered scoop with which I had fewer issues and which installs everything without needing admin rights.
installs everything without needing admin rights.
I hate installers that do this because they don’t install the apps in the right place. Apps should be in Program Files.
Not really, except if you install for all users on the machine: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/msi/installation-context
A lot of apps don’t follow this guidance. There’s plenty of apps whose per-user installations aren’t installed into
LocalAppData%\Programs. I’ve even seen some that install into the roaming AppData directory!
