It’s interesting how just a few instances of surprise rejection early in life can have a big effect on personality. I ended up paranoid, always assuming that no one could really like me and anyone who acted as if he or she did was just pitying me or playing some cruel prank on me that I was too socially inept to see.
It got to the point that when I went to a school dance (I didn’t want to but my parents made me) and the prettiest girl in the class asked me to dance with her, I actually got upset. I couldn’t believe that she sincerely wanted to. I said yes because it would have been rude to say no, but I was convinced that everybody including her was secretly laughing at me.
I only considered the possibility that she was sincere years later, when I was an adult, but even now my brain is telling me “Nah, loser, she just felt sorry for you.”
I didn’t have nearly the same awful relationship with rejection as you, but I had a similar experience as you did at your dance. I’m pretty introverted and rarely join social circles, for a bit of context.
When I went to college, we had a directory of everyone in the building with a picture and name (200 people, more or less). So naturally, we (roommates) picked out our favorites, yet few of us did anything about it. One roommate asked the girl out that he picked (she was my #2), and they ended up dating, and he convinced my to go to dance with him. I went, and he was late (probably making out or something), and my #1 waved me over from across the room, so I went over and talked. We ended up exchanging numbers, dating, and now she’s my wife. Unfortunately, she had already applied to transfer to another school, so we dated long distance for a while before getting married, but it worked out. I still kick myself for waiting so long to ask her out, because we could have spent that time together instead of over video calls.
A bit of confidence can really go a long way, and screw all the kids who reject others in those formative years. When I see my kids do anything similar, I come down on them really hard, because I don’t want my kids to be the reason other kids feel rejected.
Ok but there’s a variety of forms of rejection. I had painful rejection experiences when I was young, some were kids being shitty (not ok), some were kids just not getting along with me (sucks but fine), and some were shit like romantic (necessary for personal development of all parties and as a happily married adult I’m grateful, no matter how embarrassed I was at 16). Part of me gaining confidence was me learning to be someone people liked (alongside my peers getting old enough to find me funny). And I’ve seen people who have confidence and no likability, they range from annoying to in need of severe professional help
always assuming that no one could really like me and anyone who acted as if he or she did was just pitying me or playing some cruel prank on me that I was too socially inept to see.
Same, even went to tinder to try to get some validation, but still felt like they were just pitying me and always ended up ghosting my matches and never doing anything besides the initial small talk, it’s a hole that’s very hard to crawl out of.
Uh, what’s your secret to getting matches on Tinder? I can’t imagine trying to meet women in order to feel validated. I did online dating before apps, when people had to have written profiles and send messages. I thought I was writing thoughtful messages to women whose profiles made them seem like they might want to hear from me, but I got ignored so much that it was really hard on my self-esteem.
Am I ugly? My grandma says I’m not ugly…
Edit: I just assumed that you’re a heterosexual man like me, but maybe you’re a woman getting matches from men? That would be very validating, according to what I’ve heard.
I’m a man, and I really don’t know too since I too consider myself ugly, but seems like having a few photos where I dressed something like high casual helped I guess, also a photo with your pet if you have one.
It’s not an entirely faulty line of thinking in that environment. Those bastard kids really did do that kind of thing all the time and they found it hilarious. When all your experiences up until that point made such an unexpected scenario seem unlikely, the chances of it being a cruel prank instead probably really are higher or even higher still someone recognising your plight and trying to be charitable whilst not quite realising that that hurts almost as much.
As you probably guessed I didn’t enjoy school a whole lot either. I hope she was sincere though dude. God knows school fucks with your mind.
I agree. I haven’t really been able to shake off feeling like an outsider due to a combination of a sheltered upbringing + social delays + social alienation.
It’s almost impossible for my brain to think that other people care without some malicious motive.
yep, very similar experience here. Random early rejection totalled me
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It felt so weird when I got to college and started working and people were just treating me like a normal person. It took a long time for me to stop defaulting to trying to figure out what kind of trick they were playing on me. I still don’t know wtf I did wrong as a child that made everyone decide I was to be ostracized.
I am currently doing my bachelor in padagogical science and I can ensure you that group dynamics and individuals position in those groups very seldom have anything to do with the individual. There are contributing factors in all personalities involved, but it more often comes down to how a group is situated in what context. Often youngh people internalise their roles and continue to act according to them in different groups. So, take it as a scientific fact that you very likey didn’t do anything wrong as a child, nor had a personality trade that was the sole contribute to beeing ostracized.
It’s very difficult to logic away an emotional response
Anon should’ve showered more often
Middle school kids he mighta done nothing wrong at all. Those kids at that age are terrors and will oust people from a friend group for the dumbest reasons imaginable.
Sucks because that person may have done everything right and years later still can’t trust people or open up to them.
If there is even just a chance that others wouldn’t understand, let alone disapprove you associating with kid X, you can accomplish 2 things by ousting them: 1. You get rid of the potential disapproval (wich is mostly just insecurity) 2. You help an ingroup getting rid of unambiguousness, by drawing/strengthening the border to the outgroup, while with the same move placing yourself on the inside.
I work with kids, and so far I think this is the objective rationality behind most or at least many acts of cruel exclusion.
The only long term, non authoritarian solution is the kids developing a moral compass, that makes violent exclusion more important to them than short term insecurity-management and of course beeing less insecure. (Plus the “weird ones” often have fluffin interesting perspectives)
As we can see in comments like “shower more” even many adults didn’t recover from the competitive-acceptance-bs other kids/their parents/ this fucked up society gave them.
kids developing a moral compass
Yeah, not happening. I’ve really tried, and the most effective thing is providing external consequences for undesirable behavior, as in loss of privileges. I was a pretty chill kid, and I can’t say I had a properly working “moral compass” until my mid-20s, if that. I didn’t bully anyone, but I was secretly happy when bad things happened to people I didn’t like.
So yeah, stick with the first two, you’ll probably have more success than trying to instill morality into kids who are still harboring resentment at not getting to pick the first slice of pizza last week.
Yes, happening. Empathy and morals (which are party sort of systemized empathy) do develop. Needs time and good relationship circumstances though. I’m in outdoor pedagogy and I’m pretty sure kids make a lot of progress with some help here and there.
School as both the no 1 pedagogical field and an institution of selection and disciplination (hello competition, hello human market) isn’t a great place to progress in that.
Needs time and good relationship circumstances though
Yup, and time is the issue here. My kids are way better than their peers IMO, and my kids’ teachers have said as much (not sure if they’re just buttering me up though). But they’re still amoral little jerks a lot of the time. They’ll get there eventually, but my point is to not rely on that and instead mitigate the worst of it while their moral compass is getting calibrated.
That sounds good and healthy to me. It’s definetly part of any pedagocial role to mitigate the worst. I mean I strongly advocate for hope in the good in kids and teach/allow them to make this world a better place than we managed to so far, responsibility and all kinds of compasses. But surely they are idiots and need to rely on us mitigating that!
Ok hol up. I had to read this 10 times. Reads like AI
Are you saying you think kids are quick to push otherness away because they themselves are insecure? And as a bonus, alot of them don’t gain confidence even into adulthood?
Haha yeah sorry I’m sick and kinda slow rn.
Yeah basically that’s what I said but I also tried to describe the rational of being mean and contextualize it in a broader mode of socialization.
This is to not just go “kids are brutal” but add additional understanding, which in turn is meant to help forgiveness (in a sense of reducing hurt) and see the involvement of social order (competition does no good to hoomans).
You know, like the kids are alright but society isn’t yet so they aren’t. This sucks but doesn’t have to forever.
Exactly. Most bullies bully others because that’s how they feel more secure about themselves. Most of them live in broken homes, so they’re used to being pushed away, so they push others away.
The immediate solution is to stand up for yourself. The longer term solution is to befriend them, which can fill that hole they’ve been trying to fill with bullying.
I’d just like to say that I didn’t find it read like AI personally
I agree, this does not at all read like GPT
Thank you lol
(do people really get upset about this? Im asexual and cannot tell. Sometimes this kind of thing seems fake like why would you waste energy on this? But at the same time i am aromantic and asexual so i dont know. Im probably just weird or something and a “freak of nature” as some might say.)
Yeah, people can get upset about this kind of thing.
14 yr olds triply so.
(yeah i had to think really far back but i feel like i got upset about things like this a lot when i was young. I just dont really fully remember it?)
Remove the romance element from it.
If the bottle spins, someone has to spend time in your company doing something you enjoy. You and your friends all agree. The bottle lands on you, and suddenly whatever it was you enjoy is not just “unenjoyable” but is actively repulsive to the other people. Ironically, I’d expect people to be repulsed by having to do half my hobbies, so this isn’t a perfect reframing.
Apologies if I’m not being sensitive to your thought patterns. But there must be a way of reframing this that you can see why someone would be upset that their “friends” find them actively repulsive to even be around.
(i really still dont get it. I dont see whats repulsive about it. But it is interesting. Like i guess its just weird to me. Like if you know there is a possibility of it landing on the one everyone is repulsed by, why play? Like mathematically youre better off playing when that person isnt around? Or is that just not really a concern until it eventually does happen?)
I think you’ve got a good approach. I’m not fully allosexual myself, but it seems to me the most painful part of this would be the loss of esteem. To be excluded from anything so blatantly…
People want to be liked. It means social safety, inclusion in a group. Sexuality is just one of its expressions.
(is it possible i just dont understand social stuff at all? I still dont get it. Maybe im just this damaged.)
Stop putting your comments in parentheses
It makes sense to me as a parenthetical comment
Social stuff is hard for many people. I’d wager most people are not even consciously aware of social status, social transactions, etc. It’s not something that is really taught, so it’s no surprise when someone is blind to it.
But if you ever feel bad because of what someone said or did, it’s possible you’re subconsciously reacting to a threat to your status (import and safety within a group).
Why do you say you’re damaged?
Would you be upset if you found out people considered you ugly?
Disgusting is more accurate.
(im already considered ugly. I am not upset by this. But i kind of see your point. I think many years ago it used to upset me when i was really young)
you are also a psychopath.
(Thats nice.)
do people really get upset about this?
Yes. I’ll dive in, assuming that the greentext is real; the scenario is plausible enough.
Romantic rejection is painful, as it’s based on an instinct to achieve a strong mutual bond with someone else. This may or may not be conflated with a drive to reproduce, depending on the level of sexual attraction involved. The sensation of loss here, can manifest in actual physical pain in one’s head and/or viscera, and is proportional to the level of “drive”. This also gets coupled with a sensation of loss as the reward for achieving that mutuality is a moment that is usually followed by intense pleasure (even without sex); suddenly realizing that reward isn’t coming, hurts.
The second part, where the group continues without Anon, is similar but a different phenomenon. It’s rejection from the entire social group. Our instincts to be social creatures causes us to feel this as a loss (painful), because we’re safer and stronger in groups. Instinctively, the sensation will subside once Anon figures out how be confident with being alone, or (more likely) finds a more compatible social group.
Attempting to introspect the above sensations without support can also go to bad places. Anon mentions his self-esteem - they are blaming themself since that’s a position of “control”, but ignoring the reality that this was all impossible to predict or avoid. In reality, the other partygoers are a bunch of insensitive assholes and carry 100% of the blame here. This person really needs to be around people with more empathy.
Combined, Anon is in a world of physical and psychological pain. They were denied a potential romantic and/or sexual reward, and were rejected by the entire social group. Both forms of rejection provoke instinct and our reward centers in ways that just make a person miserable.
Being called an ugly pimple head for a whole year will also do it
was it true though
wdym?
Man. I used to sing a song to any kid who got a pimple when I was a teenager. “Big pimplin from WV and if you squeeze him too hard he pop all over the place!” With a little spin on the V to make it rhyme with place.
Had every kid in the neighborhood singing it to each other when they’d get pimples.
I hope the pimples left you alone man. If not I hope you came to terms with it.
Hmm, I’m having trouble with the rhythm here, and how can you possibly make V rhyme with place? You some kind of rap god?
Double u vay-an if you squeeze him too hard he pop all over the play-suh
I’m a rap god!
Props for not rhyming face with place lol
Kid just suck.
Eh, they are a less inhibited form of adults, and a product of their upbringing.
They sense and exploit weakness for personal gain. Plenty of adults do that too. That’s where they learn it from.
Yup, and I try very hard to bully my kids whenever they’re bullying others so they get a taste of their own medicine, and reward them when they’re excellent to others for the same reason.
My kid was a selfish brat for a bit, so I completely removed all of my attention for a bit, and I told them exactly why I was doing it. They stewed for a bit, then eventually apologized and I showered them with tons of attention.
Hopefully my kids don’t end up being little terrorists, but if they do, it wasn’t for lack of trying to instill some sense of humanity in them.
Aren’t you teaching them how effective bullying is? And that it’s ok for an adult to use it to get the behavior they want? Or do you face any consequences for your bullying?
I’m being pretty loose with terminology here. I don’t call them names or anything, but I make sure punishments are directly related to how they mistreat others.
For example, if my kid is bullying others at the park, I remove them from the park until they’re ready to apologize or it’s time to go home, and I don’t mind embarrassing them in front of their friends. Playing at the park is a privilege, and I’m happy to revoke that. That said, sometimes my SO will go overboard on punishments, and I’ll step in to protect them if that happens (and they do the same for me). If they are misusing something to bully others (e.g. their bike), I’ll take it away until they apologize.
There’s always a discussion about why the behavior wasn’t acceptable, how they can make it right, and what the consequences are. And every time we make it clear that we love them, it’s just that specific behavior that’s the issue.
It has worked pretty well so far.
Kinda crazy to think that adults learn that behavior from kids.
You…you…I like you.
It does seem that way sometimes, doesn’t it?
Terrible people whom I do not wish to share a planet with.
Kids are Reddit. If they sense weakness; the others will pile on.
One shining star will talk about the injustice of it all in the aftermath, and everyone will privately forgive themselves and conveniently forget until the next time it happens.
The solution is to be arrogant. Insist your position in their society and force your presence. If you show you have self worth, others will be forced to grudgingly acknowledge it
Kids are Reddit. If they sense weakness; the others will pile on.
I’m all for a little reddit-bashing but fucking lmao. Did they bully you on askreddit or something?
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I think it was more that people were prone to ask rhetorical questions in guise of actual discussion
Kids are Reddit. If they sense weakness; the others will pile on.
The same happens here. Just try to say anything remotely positive about Twitter/X, Elon Musk, or conservatives in general. I don’t even like any of those, but sometimes I call out hypocrisy and get absolutely dumped on (even got a couple death threats). The problem isn’t with Reddit, it’s with social media in general, it really brings the worst kinds of people together.
People suck. Try to be just a little better than the person next to you and we’ll all hopefully get through this.
You’re right. I’d argue that lemmy has the advantage of not being so popular, and that the mindset is by default more counter-culture than status-quo (otherwise we’d still be on the major sites), so I do think that the people here tend to pile on less… though I do admit that there are plenty of pylons here
Not kids, people
Anon self pities instead of self reflecting and fails to grow because of it
I don’t think that we have enough information to draw that conclusion. It is a legit horrible experience though. I can’t imagine what it would be like.
I can’t say I’ve had the exact same experience, but I did get picked on by a bunch of “friends” at a birthday party. Tried to play truth or dare and I was a really honest, open kid (mostly), so when it was my turn I said, “truth” and someone asked me if I’d ever kissed a girl, and I said, “no”. They decided that I had to be lying so they asked me a different question, “have I ever had a crush on a girl” to which I also said, “no”. They didn’t believe that either, and one of them jokingly asked, “have you (me being AMAB) ever kissed a boy?” That was coming from a kid in a really conservative Christian family, and it caught me off-guard. The truth was that no, I had never kissed a boy either, but the question made me hesitate. They lept on that.
Honestly, kids can be horrible little creatures. They learn it from their parents, all those little prejudices that the grown ups hold but hold back on to be polite or to fit into changing worlds, they get magnified in children who don’t know who and what and why, only that authority figures have taught them through their actions and the words they don’t even realize the kids are paying attention to.
I can. Been there. Couple times. My foster brother and I used to hang out with a bunch of other kids from ages 8-14, and whenever someone had a bright idea for a game like that, completely unprompted would come “but I’m not kissing Dharmacurious.” Shut fucking hurt. I never asked to play those games, never tried to join in. Would try my best to excuse myself before someone suggested a game like that. I didn’t have my first kiss until years and years and years after I lost my virginity, because I only ever did hookups with random strangers online, because I never felt like I was even capable of being desired in anyway other than a quick lay. Being ugly sucks. It truly, honestly does. I shower religiously, I brush my teeth (which, somehow, I still managed to get fucked in that department). Still, I send a picture online, blocked. I’m not an Incel or anything, I don’t think I’m owed a damn thing, it’s just the reality of the situation. I’m a fun, interesting person, with a good sense of humor, thick skin, intelligent, caring, loyal to a fault, and all the other things my shrink has helped me realize. But no one gets to know that, because there has to be some physical attraction for someone to want to get to that point. Can’t fault em for that. But being a bridge troll is lonely, and it sucks. And up thread someone suggested they should shower. That’s a fucked up thing to say, you don’t know their life. And I know green text=fiction, but this one rings fucking true for some of us.
I’m sorry random Internet stranger. Kids are brutal and can surely crush anyone’s ego without hesitation. And people telling you “to shower more” are just idiots with a nematode’s mental capacity and the emotional spectrum of a black&white-tv that’s out of black.
I don’t know anything about your environment, but you will find that special someone. Most likely when you least expect it. With those mentioned qualities you’re a steal. I, personally, would totally prefer a bridge-troll (your words) with character and true values over any empty peacock. The older i got the more obvious that became.
I hope you’ll find your lady. Everyone deserves to be loved. And your chances are way better being a troll than bring rich. That’s a positive hm? 😉
As a kid I was the weird one. It wasn’t my physical attraction, it was just my personality. I’m adhd as fuck and maybe also autistic, so I was hyper around others and couldn’t really read situations/know when to stop talking. I got excluded more times than I can count because of that stuff. These days it feels like my social “success” comes from me muting myself and not having a good time.
I’m sort of the opposite, honestly. People tend to like my personality, but I get a sort of “villagers with pitchforks” reactions to my appearance. Haha. It’s incredible how judgemental the world the is, and how you have to meet so many expectations to get through it. Any little thing off in the wrong direction and you can kiss that traditional life plan goodbye.
What kind of things do you enjoy that you’re unable to engage in to have a good time?
I hear you, man. I’ve found that you just gotta find the right people. After meeting some people where I truly feel like I can be myself, I am now healing. I still struggle to like myself at times, but having people that love me helps.
It’s not exactly what I enjoy that I can’t do, it’s just a general energy/enthusiasm switch. If I’m having a really good time, I usually make lots of comments, can be annoying to other people. I can also get very energetic or silly at times, or heated/invested in a discussion (basically an intensity problem). Unless they see through this and understand my core, they will always be annoyed and put off by that aspect of myself. It’s hard to explain and is something I need to talk to my therapist a lot more about, lol.
Have you made many friends without face-to-face? Like, online friends, phone talking friends, etc? I imagine that’s a good way to find real ones.
silly at times
That’s one I can’t do. I feel like I have to be stoic all the time in person, because I’m a big guy, and I’m unattractive so I have to maintain something to be, idk, respected? I have to really know a person before I can allow myself to be silly around them. My last “boyfriend” cemented that in, too. He dumped me and said he couldn’t deal with the “cutesy shit” took me a while to get past that one. Not the guy, so much. I felt like I had found something I never thought I’d have, and then ending it by saying that… Cut deep.
And I’m lucky on the friend front. I have a lot of long term friendships online, but I also have a few very close IRL friends, and I’m extremely close with my family.
Do you have anyone you can be passionate about things with?
No, I definitely get it. Maybe not exactly the same, but I have been traumatised enough to learn to present myself like an amicable, calm guy(masking culture, limiting my energy levels). I definitely need to get close to someone to allow that side of myself to get out, but sometimes it just comes out without my control if I really feel comfortable. But yeah, the comfort only comes out when I really trust someone.
One of my exes definitely cemented it in too. Shaming me for some behaviors 💀 Then, another ex praised my silliness, so it helped me come out of my shell a bit more. Nowadays I feel like I let out just enough to be a “fun, chill guy”.
Sorry to hear about that cutesy shit comment. That really sucks. If it wasn’t his thing, that’s fine, but to bring you down for it is just a fuckin asshole move. (I’m a proud user of the :3 face lol, it just represents that cheeky cute emotion perfectly)
Glad to hear you have good connections. That’s really what life is about I think. Building connections with others and building yourself up (knowledge, hobbies, wisdom, etc)
I do have my few IRL friends too. 2 really long term ones that have never failed me, another couple stray friends from jobs I’ve had, and most recently a group of musician friends I met last year. It’s the kind of “guy friendgroup” connection I’d been lacking for many years, and they’re all just as weird and hyper-knowledgable in their respective special interests lol. I just love people like that!
Agreed. I think people who blame anon for being in pain fail to see the problem with the behavior of the selfish, stupid people at the party, which is ironic.
I love that elsewhere, someone says anon should have taken more showers, then we have “stinky” with this insightful post.
I don’t think it’s anything more than coincidence, but it makes my brain feel good.
I got a more direct case of rejection. 12yo me, at new school, 2nd week of classes, one of the girls that I thought was very pretty was asking others who they fancied. Once she came up to me, I meekly replied “You”. I got a very loud and angry “I HATE YOU!” as an answer. Up to this day, more than 20 years later, I have no fucking clue to any possible why, in her mind, I deserved that reply.
B-B-b-b-BAKA!
But you probably caught her off guard. I wouldn’t expect 12 year olds to really know how to express their feelings like that.
I don’t think it was a tsundere, given that during the rest of the year she avoided me and I noticed at least two times were our eyes met, she frowned then looked away. We had zero interactions during the rest of the year.
Lol, that reaction probably haunts her, too. “Why was I so mean to that boy for no fucking reason 20 years ago?!”
Would be funny if I could find her on instagram or wherever and ask. Too bad I only remember her first name
You got that reply because you surprised her and her immature 12 y/o brain spat that out as the best response on short notice. It’s entirely likely that response had nothing to do with you in particular.
It may have been that she was embarrassed because she liked you too.
Ouch. But also,
I once got angry and through a fit at a friend for buying me a surprise gift. I couldn’t even tell you why, but I was very upset.
Try not to put too much stock in the bubbling brew that is childhood emotions.
Green text is always fake, right you guys?
If it’s happy and wholesome its sadly probably fake, if its dark and depressing, there’s a good chance that is legit.
The greentext blackpill
At camp some guys and girls were playing in a tent, I was not included.
One got out and told me I could join. I tried to and they all laughed at me. Still hurts a bit.
I was at a gathering with some guy friends meeting some girls from a different school. The slightly older brother (let’s call him Jay) of one of my friend’s had driven us there. We were playing spin the bottle outside the apartment building. I was rejected after the bottle spun by a girl saying she didn’t want to kiss me specifically. I got hurt/mad then my impulsive ADHD brain decided to get even. I saw a spigot on the floor, aimed it strait at the girl that rejected me and turned it on. More than the intended target got wet. Jay got really mad and I just ran. Once he caught up to me I thought he was going to beat me up. Instead he just laughed and told me I was going to have to leave and walk home.
You did the right thing.
LoL… That has the feel of getting sent to the principal’s office for something that they kinda actually agree with (or at least find amusing) but have to deal with by policy.
Yeah, the classic ADHD rejection sensitivity.
yeah lmao this doesnt sound like adhd
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Similar story where a University club got together at someone’s apartment to stay the night, lots of previously unacquainted people in the group, after a night on the town.
Chatting, drinking, in a circle. One girl started giving the guys shoulders rubs, but went to bed when she came up to me in the circle.
Kept telling myself I dodged a bullet anyway.
You did she’s pregnant with 5 kids now and an opiate addiction
It never pays to assume, especially not horseshit like that.
We can have a separate discussion about why talking about prostitutes with anything less than respect is not okay.
Anon didn’t have the abilities to digest the situation to conclude what needs to be done to prevent this in the future.
Anon hopefully is older and wiser now.
I was anon once…
That sounds… ominous
Break the bottle and start stabbing
Play spin the bottle with their torsos
Shut yourself in and never meet people ever.
Describes a lot of my childhood to be honest I was a social pariah for some reason. Completly changed when I went to college and made new friends, and now a lot of my happiest memories surround my college years. I even met my wife there!
