Perhaps they would feel more inclined to vote if we had more then two viable political parties to choose from.
With a more representative electoral system, people would be free to vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect. Their vote would count, even if their preference didn’t win.
Who could possibly be against democracy? Republicans? Of course.
How about the democratic party? What is their opinion of democracy? Will they work to ensure their constituents are represented fully? Every day that ticks by without electoral reform in blue states is another day the democrats elevate their party above the needs of the country.
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use currently)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
There was a choice. You failed to choose the better option, and thus must accept the worst.
Simple-as.
Should I have thoughts on them?
and what if government tomorrow or (maybe far future) announced that they will be announcing fines for people who didn’t vote in order to maximize participation, would you agree with that decision?
This is the dumb way to go about incentivizing people to vote.
Make voting part of doing your taxes. Everyone is already verified through the IRS, piggyback off that system. Whatever amount you had in your head as a fine, make it a tax credit if they compete the voting portion of the tax paperwork.
People who don’t do taxes can vote by mail still and can still receive the money for voting. No more stupid fucking voting booths.
You mean, as already happens in Australia and Belgium and maybe a few other places.
Seems fair to me. Democracy relies on participation. To not vote is effectively to vote against democracy. Fair enough, but that’s a dangerous road to go down. I think there should be a small price to pay for it.
Democracy relies on participation
You don’t exist in a democratic society. So what exactly do you want people to participate in?
No, the onus is first on you first to explain why “we don’t exist in a democratic society” and above all what is your brilliant plan for making things better. If all you can do is whine about why it’s all useless while you undermine the system by opting out of it, then frankly I’m not interested in anything you have to say.
No, the onus is first on you first to explain why “we don’t exist in a democratic society”
Did you vote FOR the ongoing genocide the liberal status quo is funding in Palestine as we speak, genius? Were you ever given the chance, hmm?
Yes or no?
If no, where is your “public power?” Where is the democratic power you should have if you actually existed in a democratic society?
To a non-brainwashed person, this would be perfectly obvious. But it’s not obvious to YOU.
above all what is your brilliant plan for making things better.
Now you are demanding solutions to a problem you insist do not exist. A bit incoherent, don’t you think?
while you undermine the system by opting out of it
ROFLMAO!
Good job demonstrating that you don’t have the foggiest understanding of the system you are defending.
Your argument for not bothering to get off your ass and vote in a US election is “Palestine”? America deserves what it gets.
So I guess it truly is YOUR genocide then, eh?
Colour me surprised.
As an anarchist, I respect their decision in the sense that participating in the state is fighting for the state.
I would tell them to vote though, and I myself vote when its needed, to avoid getting utter bastards as ‘legitimate’ leaders. Here in France it’s even easier because I’m not given the choice between only capitalists and fascists, i can vote for light versions of socialists.
I’m against fines, even light ones. If they are not strictly scaled to income, they always strike harder people who are struggling already than richer ones. And even if they do, it’s not fair to be forced to participate in a form of politics you don’t want.
Thank you. Sadly, the concept of legitimizing a government isn’t something most people understand enough to appreciate.
Everyone get’s what they asked for. The thing about the ubiquitous trolley problem is it has clear outcomes. That’s why it works. Whatever’s happening down the track, here we are. We had a lever we didn’t pull. Best learn to live with the choice, because there was a choice.
Not true at an individual level. Where I live, no way of voting or not voting would have mattered. The same was true where I used to live years ago. In many places it’s clear my vote doesn’t matter every single time and the outcome would not have changed in most of the election categories.
Therefore I do not actually have choice.
Sure, and same. Some of us in the US did get the luxury of protest vote. How’d you do in local? I’m not even a democrat. First time I voted down ticket.
Did you make an effort? Yes/no.
They actively brought about political disaster through idiotic, self-absorbed assholery and they will be licking it up for four long fucking years.
They actively brought about political disaster
You want to blame the people who didn’t participate in anti-democratic spectacles for the existence of said anti-democratic spectacles?
Make them take the “Walk of Shame” like in the GoT.
No fines. Just make it even easier and better process. Mail in ballots and a federal holiday for the Presidential election.
Decisions are made by those that show up. If you didn’t vote, you don’t get to bitch when the results aren’t what you wanted.
Hard not to bitch when, as a citizen of another country, I could never vote, and yet people here still have to deal with the consequences.
You better believe the rest of the world will be bitching.
Backwards.
You put american electoralism up on a pedestal and tout its sanctity and your faith in the process. The process yielded Trump. If you truly believe in the sanctity of american electoralism, you now have no grounds to complain.
If you vote, you don’t get to complain.
ROFL! Holy shit…. That is funny!
Buy a helmet. Wear it.
yes, I do
Oh you do, but you lost the right to be taken seriously by anyone that did. And it’s no big surprise how so many of you that were shouting at everyone before the election have either vanished, or fallen silent about it since.
And we will all laugh at you for that hot take. Next time get off your ass and participate if you have an opinion.
don’t tell me what to do
I did.
Oh wow, I’m sure this will totally get them to vote next time! /$
I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything. If you want to be a moron, that’s your prerogative. Same goes for the dude I replied to.
I’ll laugh for not voting and complaining the same way I’ll laugh at a user on a .ml instance, which is a lot.
No one is going to kiss your ass just because you shout loudly at them about how broken shit is.
That’s not how it works.
And just like how you like to say that no one is entitled to your vote- you’re not entitled to be taken seriously when all you do is demand to be, without doing a damn thing to earn it.
Fine, but we’ll take you less seriously.
this is bigotry
They can live with Brexit.
People who don’t vote don’t get to complain if things don’t go their way. I mean they can, but it’s pretty silly. It’s like writing a review for a restaurant that your friends have eaten at, but that you haven’t. No one should take that review seriously.
I think voting should be mandatory for people who have registered to vote. I don’t think anyone should be required to register, but if you are registered you should have to vote or be fined, imo.
They should shut up about politics. Not voting is literally a declaration that you don’t care who governs you. Voting is what gives you the right to complain about the government. If you didn’t vote, shut up.
Not voting is literally a declaration that you don’t care who governs you
no, it’s not
They should shut up about politics
Not participating in fake, anti-democratic spectacles (somehow) “disqualifies” one from talking about politics?
This is just ignorance and whiny entitlement. Your “fake anti-democratic spectacle” is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you. Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history. Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government. Not good enough for you? Well then get off your ass and do something to make it better. The very least you can do is vote, because out of two candidates, one is always better than another. If you can’t be bothered to do even that, then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you.
Really? The generations of people who resisted and fought against THIS EXACT STATUS QUO would be proud of these glorified rubberstamping spectacles which only exist to legitimize elite rule?
Really?
Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history.
Really? So the ongoing genocide your “boring liberal representative democracy” is funding is… an exception? The history books says otherwise.
Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government.
Lol! Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
What’s the matter, liberal? Is all the cognitive dissonance starting to make you feel queesy?
Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
No, you sound like an ignorant decadent American college student.
an ignorant decadent American college student.
Those Yankee college students staging protests on US campuses are far better at “doing” democracy than all the voting you could do over a lifetime put together.
Perhaps it’s best that you don’t try to flex about something you don’t seem to know too much about, okay?
because out of two candidates, one is always better than another
if neither one should have power, I’m not voting for either one
Elections might be skewed, they might be giving voters a rather narrow choice, they might depend on who’s got the bigger campaign fund, they might not offer ranked choice, yet with all that --they’re still one of the most accessible, actionable things the average person can do to control their nation’s future. Passing on that is not justifiable, because we should be doing everything we can, and that includes voting. I used to be cynical like you, but
then I took an arrI mean, we can’t afford that.Elections might be skewed,
If you want to see this glorified rubberstamping of elite rule through those kind of rose-tinted spectacles, fine.
But don’t call it “democracy.”
I used to be cynical like you
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
Depends on your nomenclature, I’ve heard US and France’s political systems referred to as “flawed democracies”. I personally didn’t call either a democracy, I think we’re past that quite frankly.
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
I call cynicism “giving in to desperation instead of acting”. I’ve explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice, so far you have failed to reason back. Do you think you can do that ?
I’ve heard US and France’s political systems referred to as “flawed democracies”.
Painting a lighter shade of lipstick on a pig doesn’t make the pig less of a pig.
I personally didn’t call either a democracy,
No, you didn’t. And that is legit refreshing.
I’ve explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice
I never said that not voting was reasonable. My point is that it’s perfectly UNDERSTANDABLE.
There is a difference.
Lazy idiots, misguided idiots, deluded idiots who have made every progressive goal more difficult to achieve, just out of reach for the rest of our lives
I don’t personally care if someone voted or not, especially this election.
They’re no worse than (possibly better than) people who voted for whichever party because their parents/newspaper taught/told them to, or because that’s who they always vote for and are too lazy, stubborn, peer pressured or insecure to change - i.e. people who claim to be politically literate but don’t actually have a clue what they’re really voting for.
Rule 6. Locking.
