I’m not sure what you need explained here. Pretending it’s the Democrats and only the Democrats that caused Harris to lose is silly. Sure, they have culpability. So does every person who loudly and repeatedly said not to vote for “Genocide Joe” and then “Holocaust Harris.” So do people like me for not trying hard enough to keep Trump out of office.
There’s lots of blame to go around, but everyone is going “not me! Not me!”
That’s fine, it’s nice you’re taking responsibility, it shows initiative. All I’m saying, all I’ve ever said, was to stop defending the democrats in this, by persecuting people who voted, or didn’t vote, according to their conscience. The dems should be sharply criticized for their failures. Maybe there’s lots of blame to go around, but there is a higher concentration of blame where there is a higher concentration of power.
Blame actually isn’t worth much to me. But the brow beating, infantalizing, condescending attitude toward working Americans while gate keeping every scrap of power, apparently just to end up losing it to the right, is an absolutely inexcusable yet predictable consequence of deep political corruption. Until you personally start organizing against it, then any blame you try to deflect away from the party by taking it on yourself will be a reflection of your ego, not your willingness to put it on the line and fight for change.
And you don’t even have to be a commie like me, you can be a pragmatist/reformist and I’ll give you shit but at least I’ll respect the struggle. Probably doesn’t mean much to you but it beats defending corruption.
I never defended Democrats. Nor do I think Democrats are even relevant anymore. My whole point in this thread is a bunch of people are arguing over Democrats and Republicans and not giving a shit about Palestinians, just using them as pawns to argue about American politics.
Okay thanks for clarifying I’m in a couple threads having similar arguments and got my wires crossed.
My comment was really directed at many of the other commenters who are defending dems and pointing the blame.
I’m glad you’re working through the problems and it shows a commitment to truth that is lost in most political discourse so thanks for bringing something nicely and distinctly human to the discourse.
If the point you are trying to make is that our spectacular political theatre of divisiveness and trump is actually moving the discourse away from where it should be grounded, that is the fight for the liberation of Palestinians from genocide and decades of oppression, from the actual suffering and struggles, then we agree. Not sure how I would have gotten that from your first comment, but I’m happy to accept that’s what you meant, or whatever your actual intent happened to be.
I think the problem is so many people trying to politically point score by whitewashing a bunch of Genociders by using the actions of a new bunch of Genociders.
“Yeah, but our guys’ mass murdering of children was all fairies and unicorns shitting rainbows from their arses whilst those other guys’ Genocide is all dark and shit” isn’t the Grand Principled argument the tribalists seem to think it is.
It’s kind of understandable that anybody with enough Principle in their bodies to trump tribalism is a “little” peeved at people excusing any group of willful and eager collaborators in the mass murder of children, be it the previous bunch or the new bunch.
Seems like the problem in this thread is a bunch of people trying to politically point score by not giving a shit that Trump is moving forward with this because they’d rather condemn people who are not in power and may never be in power again.
I see very little condemnation of Trump and a lot of “Genocide Joe would have done the same thing.”
And fuck the Palestinians, they’re just a tool in this from what I can tell from such people. How many “Genocide Joe” people here not bothering to condemn Trump have ever even talked to a Palestinian?
Re-read the posts: plenty of people who criticize Biden are also criticizing Trump.
I can’t speak for others but I personally am not constantly criticizing Trump because their is no lack of criticizing Trump here so it’s not a problem I feel I need to address in my comments, much less do it all the time.
It’s the whitewashing of the actions of Genociders that I feel is a problem so my comments are directed at that, and in this thread so far I’ve only seen the actions of one bunch of Genociders be whitewashed, and that’s the Biden bunch.
If this was 4chan I’m sure there would be plenty of comments whitewashing Trump’s actions that I would feel the need to counter.
You need to re-read my posts because you are still doing what I am saying, not giving a shit about what is going to happen to Palestinians because you’re too busy continuing to argue about an election that was decided months ago.
What have you actually done to try to stop this genocide?
Mainly spreading awareness of what’s going and exposing the flawed logic and lies in pro-Israeli propaganda since the very start and pointing out the hypocrisy of those who empower the Genociders by supporting politicians who knowingly and actively give them military support.
(To the point that I’ve actually received e-mails in my native language from a Tel Aviv based organisation inviting me to a “learn about Israel” web course, which is funny 'cause I’ve never published my e-mail address here)
I’m also a member of a small party in the country I live in which is very loudly against the Israeli Occupation and the Israeli Genocide.
I keep on hammering against the whitewashing of the Democrat Genociders because their actions help normalized the support of Genocide and extreme racism in the US - they’re supposed to be an alternative to the likes of Trump, the opposite not the “almost the same but a tiny bit less bad”.
Democrats are supposed to walk towards Less Evil, thus opening up a political gap in the middle that also pulls the Republicans over towards Less Evil, but instead Democrats are walking towards More Evil, effectively making the baseline of American politics be Quite A Lot Of Evil and worsening, and supporting the normalization and even increasing extremism of the Evil in the Republican Party.
This isn’t about the Present, because that war is lost and all that people have left is Resistance (and me not being in US means I can’t be part of that), this is about the Future - if the Democrat leadership comes around to accept that their only chance is to actually be the opposite of Trump in actions, fighting for actual Principles, rather than merely be the slightly dissenting performative voice, then there is hope for improvement otherwise (as indicated by Trumps reelection after what he did last time in office) America is condemned to a cycle of presidents like Trump and worse.
People whitewashing Genocide-support as long as it’s done by Democrats ain’t gona push the Democrat leadership to start moving towards Less Evil.
“Spreading awareness.” So getting on the internet and talking shit. Big fucking deal.
Have you spent even five minutes sending a form email and making a phone call? No, apparently not. You can very easily contact politicians in other countries, but you’d rather just sit on your ass and berate people.
And you are the one whitewashing genocide here. You have not spent two seconds discussing what is going to happen to Palestinians and you clearly don’t care since they’re just pawns in your game.
I’m actually in a political party that actually fights against that shit, busy campaigning in elections, participating in party conferences and even manning election booths, not busy whitewashing the Genocide support of my favored pro-Genocide political party whilst sending letters to a leadership that couldn’t give a rat’s arse about what I think because I’m supporting them where it counts no matter how evil they act, so they have no reason to change tack away from Evil-doing.
By providing comfort and support to politicians that militarilly support an ongoing Genocide, you’re indirectly supporting Genocide, at the very least because those politicians won’t change if they’re supported not mater what, so you’re making sure they remain supporting Genocide whenever they have a chance.
Absolutelly, compliment the leadership of your party on the things they do right (not merelly what they say) AND chastise them on the things they do wrong like supporting the mass murder of children because they’re from a “human animal” ethnicity.
I’m starting to think the difference between us is that I’m driven by Principle - I don’t live in America, I don’t live in Palestine, I’m safelly in Europe on the opposite side of the continent from Russia, I could just ignore the butchering in Palestine or the butchering in Ukraine because, hey, “I’m Alright Jack”, but I won’t because that shit is wrong, and I don’t mean just a bit wrong, I mean “getting way too close to Nazi-level wrong” - whilst you are driven by the fear of what can happen to your daughter in Trump’s America, which is understandable but is not Principle, it’s all about you and yours - a selfish reason, not just taking an stand on principle without gaining anything from it.
Maybe that’s why I can’t stand Mass Murderers, Genociders, Xenophobes and those who enable them, whilst you run around excusing them and thus doing your bit to enable them to carry on doing what they do - as long as they give you what you want for you and yours, You’re Alright and fuck the rest!
“I support a political party” means you don’t have to do any work. I spend hours on this, you don’t do shit.
And if you’re driven by principle, where’s your principle of doing something rather than just berating people and voting? Because it’s clear you’re not motivated enough to take action on this despite your claim of hating genocide.
Also, who am I comforting and supporting? Name them. Unless that’s a lie. Is it a lie?
Edit: That’s what I thought, no answers, just downvotes.
Do you think maybe there can be more than one source of culpability for things in this universe?
Explain
I’m not sure what you need explained here. Pretending it’s the Democrats and only the Democrats that caused Harris to lose is silly. Sure, they have culpability. So does every person who loudly and repeatedly said not to vote for “Genocide Joe” and then “Holocaust Harris.” So do people like me for not trying hard enough to keep Trump out of office.
There’s lots of blame to go around, but everyone is going “not me! Not me!”
That’s fine, it’s nice you’re taking responsibility, it shows initiative. All I’m saying, all I’ve ever said, was to stop defending the democrats in this, by persecuting people who voted, or didn’t vote, according to their conscience. The dems should be sharply criticized for their failures. Maybe there’s lots of blame to go around, but there is a higher concentration of blame where there is a higher concentration of power.
Blame actually isn’t worth much to me. But the brow beating, infantalizing, condescending attitude toward working Americans while gate keeping every scrap of power, apparently just to end up losing it to the right, is an absolutely inexcusable yet predictable consequence of deep political corruption. Until you personally start organizing against it, then any blame you try to deflect away from the party by taking it on yourself will be a reflection of your ego, not your willingness to put it on the line and fight for change.
And you don’t even have to be a commie like me, you can be a pragmatist/reformist and I’ll give you shit but at least I’ll respect the struggle. Probably doesn’t mean much to you but it beats defending corruption.
I never defended Democrats. Nor do I think Democrats are even relevant anymore. My whole point in this thread is a bunch of people are arguing over Democrats and Republicans and not giving a shit about Palestinians, just using them as pawns to argue about American politics.
Okay thanks for clarifying I’m in a couple threads having similar arguments and got my wires crossed.
My comment was really directed at many of the other commenters who are defending dems and pointing the blame.
I’m glad you’re working through the problems and it shows a commitment to truth that is lost in most political discourse so thanks for bringing something nicely and distinctly human to the discourse.
If the point you are trying to make is that our spectacular political theatre of divisiveness and trump is actually moving the discourse away from where it should be grounded, that is the fight for the liberation of Palestinians from genocide and decades of oppression, from the actual suffering and struggles, then we agree. Not sure how I would have gotten that from your first comment, but I’m happy to accept that’s what you meant, or whatever your actual intent happened to be.
I think the problem is so many people trying to politically point score by whitewashing a bunch of Genociders by using the actions of a new bunch of Genociders.
“Yeah, but our guys’ mass murdering of children was all fairies and unicorns shitting rainbows from their arses whilst those other guys’ Genocide is all dark and shit” isn’t the Grand Principled argument the tribalists seem to think it is.
It’s kind of understandable that anybody with enough Principle in their bodies to trump tribalism is a “little” peeved at people excusing any group of willful and eager collaborators in the mass murder of children, be it the previous bunch or the new bunch.
Seems like the problem in this thread is a bunch of people trying to politically point score by not giving a shit that Trump is moving forward with this because they’d rather condemn people who are not in power and may never be in power again.
I see very little condemnation of Trump and a lot of “Genocide Joe would have done the same thing.”
And fuck the Palestinians, they’re just a tool in this from what I can tell from such people. How many “Genocide Joe” people here not bothering to condemn Trump have ever even talked to a Palestinian?
Re-read the posts: plenty of people who criticize Biden are also criticizing Trump.
I can’t speak for others but I personally am not constantly criticizing Trump because their is no lack of criticizing Trump here so it’s not a problem I feel I need to address in my comments, much less do it all the time.
It’s the whitewashing of the actions of Genociders that I feel is a problem so my comments are directed at that, and in this thread so far I’ve only seen the actions of one bunch of Genociders be whitewashed, and that’s the Biden bunch.
If this was 4chan I’m sure there would be plenty of comments whitewashing Trump’s actions that I would feel the need to counter.
You need to re-read my posts because you are still doing what I am saying, not giving a shit about what is going to happen to Palestinians because you’re too busy continuing to argue about an election that was decided months ago.
What have you actually done to try to stop this genocide?
Mainly spreading awareness of what’s going and exposing the flawed logic and lies in pro-Israeli propaganda since the very start and pointing out the hypocrisy of those who empower the Genociders by supporting politicians who knowingly and actively give them military support. (To the point that I’ve actually received e-mails in my native language from a Tel Aviv based organisation inviting me to a “learn about Israel” web course, which is funny 'cause I’ve never published my e-mail address here)
I’m also a member of a small party in the country I live in which is very loudly against the Israeli Occupation and the Israeli Genocide.
I keep on hammering against the whitewashing of the Democrat Genociders because their actions help normalized the support of Genocide and extreme racism in the US - they’re supposed to be an alternative to the likes of Trump, the opposite not the “almost the same but a tiny bit less bad”.
Democrats are supposed to walk towards Less Evil, thus opening up a political gap in the middle that also pulls the Republicans over towards Less Evil, but instead Democrats are walking towards More Evil, effectively making the baseline of American politics be Quite A Lot Of Evil and worsening, and supporting the normalization and even increasing extremism of the Evil in the Republican Party.
This isn’t about the Present, because that war is lost and all that people have left is Resistance (and me not being in US means I can’t be part of that), this is about the Future - if the Democrat leadership comes around to accept that their only chance is to actually be the opposite of Trump in actions, fighting for actual Principles, rather than merely be the slightly dissenting performative voice, then there is hope for improvement otherwise (as indicated by Trumps reelection after what he did last time in office) America is condemned to a cycle of presidents like Trump and worse.
People whitewashing Genocide-support as long as it’s done by Democrats ain’t gona push the Democrat leadership to start moving towards Less Evil.
“Spreading awareness.” So getting on the internet and talking shit. Big fucking deal.
Have you spent even five minutes sending a form email and making a phone call? No, apparently not. You can very easily contact politicians in other countries, but you’d rather just sit on your ass and berate people.
And you are the one whitewashing genocide here. You have not spent two seconds discussing what is going to happen to Palestinians and you clearly don’t care since they’re just pawns in your game.
Re-read my post.
I’m actually in a political party that actually fights against that shit, busy campaigning in elections, participating in party conferences and even manning election booths, not busy whitewashing the Genocide support of my favored pro-Genocide political party whilst sending letters to a leadership that couldn’t give a rat’s arse about what I think because I’m supporting them where it counts no matter how evil they act, so they have no reason to change tack away from Evil-doing.
By providing comfort and support to politicians that militarilly support an ongoing Genocide, you’re indirectly supporting Genocide, at the very least because those politicians won’t change if they’re supported not mater what, so you’re making sure they remain supporting Genocide whenever they have a chance.
Absolutelly, compliment the leadership of your party on the things they do right (not merelly what they say) AND chastise them on the things they do wrong like supporting the mass murder of children because they’re from a “human animal” ethnicity.
I’m starting to think the difference between us is that I’m driven by Principle - I don’t live in America, I don’t live in Palestine, I’m safelly in Europe on the opposite side of the continent from Russia, I could just ignore the butchering in Palestine or the butchering in Ukraine because, hey, “I’m Alright Jack”, but I won’t because that shit is wrong, and I don’t mean just a bit wrong, I mean “getting way too close to Nazi-level wrong” - whilst you are driven by the fear of what can happen to your daughter in Trump’s America, which is understandable but is not Principle, it’s all about you and yours - a selfish reason, not just taking an stand on principle without gaining anything from it.
Maybe that’s why I can’t stand Mass Murderers, Genociders, Xenophobes and those who enable them, whilst you run around excusing them and thus doing your bit to enable them to carry on doing what they do - as long as they give you what you want for you and yours, You’re Alright and fuck the rest!
“I support a political party” means you don’t have to do any work. I spend hours on this, you don’t do shit.
And if you’re driven by principle, where’s your principle of doing something rather than just berating people and voting? Because it’s clear you’re not motivated enough to take action on this despite your claim of hating genocide.
Also, who am I comforting and supporting? Name them. Unless that’s a lie. Is it a lie?
Edit: That’s what I thought, no answers, just downvotes.