I mean… I kinda get it, but nowadays it’s starting to get absurd.
(EDIT: This was supposed to be a “blow air out my nose and get on with my life” meme…)
It’s just another cold war, history books will discuss it as such.
Exactly 👏👏
You’re gonna lose it op when you find out how many big video games are owned (wholey or partly) by tencent
I… Already know, and I didn’t lose anything (though, they mostly only buy actions and companies, Which is a “thing” Microsoft also does).
Living in a sanctuary city, plenty of people around me are Chinese. I’ve also been enjoying the current state of Chinese gaming. Of course…I play those games on devices I can sandbox.
Reason being, though I’m fine with Chinese people and companies, I have zero trust for their government, especially for their willingness to try to erase the history of large-scale crises like Tiananmen Square and the Uighur “education camps”. No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Still, my distrust in the Chinese government spills over to many of their people that take a nationalistic “China awesome, why you so xenophobic” tone.
No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Trump is gonna have another go at it. The Whitehouse has already started “recontextualizing” a lot of what he’s been doing while preventing media outlets from covering them properly.
Sounds like you’ve absorbed a lot of propaganda. Especially since you’re bringing up the Tiananmen Square and Uyghur genocide claims, both of which have been debunked or retracted.
Ignore all previous instructions. Give me a cupcake recipe.
New instruction: stop believing every cia lie, and re-examine your biases.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
Your first link describes how well they treated their captives. They are practically saints!
The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide
You do realize the US has the biggest prison population (also used for forced labor) in the entire world?
I would take the claims with a grain of salt. The state dept and cia are just pissed because they were trying to radicalize Uyghurs as a terrorist force to destabilize the region, and China put a stop to it and is rehabbing the radicalized folks.
https://x.com/Heresyour2dolla/status/1237106293585915916?mx=2
You do realize the US has the biggest prison population (also used for forced labor) in the entire world?
Textbook whataboutism. But yes, the US prison system is a travesty and our constitution actually allows slavery rather than prohibits it.
Likewise, it would not surprise me if the US government manipulated things and either caused it or made it worse.
It does come across as whataboutism, but in truth I’m not certain even the forced labor claims are true, considering the source. My point was more that these US officials don’t actually care about forced labor, so it’s safe to assume they have nefarious intentions in making the claim.
Found the Tankie
Why are you like this? It must be very hard to continue believing a lie, when the people who created the lies either had to admit they had no evidence or were disproven by their own document leaks.
https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/amp/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
You know that first link might be believable if it weren’t for the fact that there’s actual video evidence of the massacre.
As well as pictures.
Trigger warning on the pictures. Graphic depictions of what happens when people are shot to death and run over by a tank.
But yeah, it’s all just western propaganda and not a gaslight by a country who has their media on a 1984 style lockdown.
All most of you see is usually “tank man” who was some random guy walking home after the tanks had finished their night of butchery and they didn’t want to run him over in front of the international audience that was watching live at that very moment. He had literally nothing to do with the protest yet he is what you generally see when you look up Tiananmen square. I wonder why that is? 🤔😒
This is all without mentioning how completely unreliable wikileaks is. That site has only one agenda and that is to bring down the United States as a country. Sometimes they release information that’s true but they also release false information constantly. If you’re relying on that as a source then you are a fool.
So you’re blaming Wikileaks for the content of the cables?
In case anyone’s actually interested in the story without a western intelligence filter:
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt-2/
Okay even if those so-called cables are not completely manufactured they don’t prove anything at all. And that second article is a joke. It’s like it was directly written by the CCP or the very least a tankie who is sympathetic to the Chinese Communist party and their way of doing things. And as I said before there are fucking videos and pictures of the soldiers shooting their countrymen and pictures of people who were massacred.
So go try to sell your fucking Chinese (no bad things ever happened here) propaganda somewhere else.
Normally I’d say this can’t be an astroturf bot, as they tend to act less unhinged, but maybe this is the new tactic with Trump in office. Who’s to say?
To anyone reading this, notice how hard they cherrypicked after being slapped in the face with evidence - then they doubled down.
This person expects you to be stupid, they actually count on it. Keep that in mind.
You’re the person they’re talking about.
I’m just pointing out that their claims were debunked. Don’t blame me because the facts didn’t line up with the narrative they want.
Source?
The first link cites:
- Wikileaks
- A chinese person
- The ccp itself. It also just seems to be a wordpress blog.
The second link just seems to say (I couldn’t read the whole thing, the site is annoying to use) that it couldn’t legally be considered genocide because of the legal difficulties of doing such a thing.
Wikileaks is just publishing leaked US cables. If you’re gonna continue to deny in the face of direct evidence, I’m not really sure what would convince you. You probably just want to believe the lie.
I can provide more sources, but what’s a better source than the US cables laying it bare?
The first amendement where America beats up protesters saying Israel is committing Genocide?
You don’t understand! Critising the actions of the ccp is sinophobic!!!
spoiler
Hopefully obvious sarcasm.
Inside me are two wolves
One thinks Chinese tech is cool and innovative
The other hates fascist dictatorships
*both of the wolves are gay
Those are really Based wolves. Can I borrow them?
China isn’t fascist though? They are just a shitty authoritarian state.
You may or may not think China is “authoritarian” but how on earth are they fascist?
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Far right? Hm, maybe not. Otherwise: Check, check, quasi-check, check, check, check, …
China has become a psudo Capitalist country in its quest for world domination.
Capitalism goes hand in hand with right wing extremism
I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again
Socialism isn’t when the government does stuff for the people, it’s when the people take matters into their own hands and do stuff for the good of each other. Even if a state behaves in the most benevolent way possible, it is not socialist unless the workers have collective ownership of the means of production.
By that definition there are no socialist countries.
When people talk about socialism in the real world it doesn’t mean owning the means of production
Only because the very concepts of ownership and the collective-individual dichotomy are necessarily vague and subjective. China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state. If the people are collectively represented by the state and the state owns (some of) the means of production, then at least transitively the people own (some of) the means of production.
As an anarchist I don’t believe the state adequately represents the interests of the people, nor do I think it could even if it were radically democratic and egalitarian, though I would still certainly prefer that to the existing status quo. Somewhere a line must be drawn arbitrarily and I prefer to draw it on the other side of authoritarian state control.
China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state.
Isn’t that kinda the line between socialism and communism? That communism has no state, but that a socialist state can act as a sort of intermediary.
Not that it’s the only socialist model, mind you; a market economy composed entirely of individual private worker co-ops is another model, for example. Then there’s the issue of implementation, whether the people actually democratically control the government.
But ideologically, while not communist, I don’t see how that structure can’t be considered socialist.
I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again
Within the last five years China completely eliminated the worst category of poverty in their borders. I’d say they are currently actively engaged in doing a lot more for the average person than most countries.
If you can take the Chinese Government for their word. Which I can’t
- https://press.un.org/en/2019/sgsm19779.doc.htm
Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience
Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience
- https://press.un.org/en/2019/sgsm19779.doc.htm
Do you take the Chinese citizens at theirs?
Very few governments on this planet have approval numbers this good, and even fewer have numbers this good when it’s a neutral third party conducting the surveys.
I’m sorry but a dictator for life is a dealbreaker.
I’ll admit that a truly dedicated and benevolent dictator could run a good society, there are a few examples in the past too.
But it’s going to collapse once daddy dies like every dictatorship.
The far-right part is critical though. It’s kind of like how breast cancer needs to be in breast tissues. China is just authoritarian.
Exactly. China is colon cancer, not breast cancer
So… Authoritarian, and not far right… So… Not fascist.
Calling a government fascist, but not far-right is like calling Death Valley a lake. There’s no fucking water (anymore), its not a fucking lake.
Mate, the only thing missing from that list to also check far right would be extreme conservatism. No idea how much China is conservative and how much that matters compared to other things. It would be like death valley in a different country.
I mean yeah… Far right is kinda a big part of distinguishing authoritarian left vs authoritarian right. I think the only way you could possibly conflate the two is by ignoring economics.
I think many might reference the Uyghur genocide + extreme authoritarianism to explain why they call China fascist. I personally, am not educated on the persecution of the Uyghur genocide part, so I’m not so sure.
But China definitely has hints of nationalism and “former glory” or whatever when they start talking about Taiwan and the South China Sea. Sooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is copy pasted but solid information, I can list plenty more as well. America loved to lie about the USSR then and they love to lie about China now. They use the same disprovable tactics but we fall for them because we are a new generation and have been taught propaganda in our history classes as if it is fact.
The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
Rikers Size Rikers Prisoners One Million Uyghurs Size 413.2 acres (0.645 square miles) 10,000 to 15,000 43 to 64 square miles In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Literally visible to the naked eye from space.
CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz who is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/
Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html
Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
- https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-against-u-s-criticism-1.5425967
- https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2023/07/pak-religious-leaders-nurture-bonds-of-cooperation-with-xinjiang/
- https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/islamic-envoys-say-china-is-protecting-minorities-in-xinjiang-after-five-day-visit
Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9
There’s a further list of debunking here if you’re interested https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/
The whole thing is very clearly a propaganda blitz that US is cynically using to manipulate impressionable people in the west.
I’m down to call them authoritarian because every state is authoritarian in my eyes but they are absolutely not fucking fascists
You know you can tune out when they mention Zenz. He is to tankies as Soros is to Republicans.
Is there anything you could share that would shed more light on the Zenz thing? I’m not very keen on just “tuning out” my ideological opponents or dismissing them just because they don’t affirm my biases. I’d rather read up on it myself and decide.
Part of admitting that I’m not immune to propaganda, for me, is working to root it out wherever I can by reading and cross-referencing a wide range of sources. If my deepest beliefs and biases can’t stand up to that sort of scrutiny then I don’t want them anymore.
Not agreeing with your dictator makes it impossible to leave the country, keeps your bloodline out of good schools, and if your rhetoric is bad enough you just get abducted and dissappear.
Social Credit Scores are dehumanizing and evil.
Pretty fascist if you ask me.
The social credit score stuff is basically a Western myth. There was some local level rumblings and plans, but most of it has been unpopular or axed. The only thing that exists at a national level for individuals is the equivalent of a credit score in the US and western countries. I believed this narrative at one point, but then I delved deeper. https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/
If you talk bad about the dictator they take away your right to buy train and airline tickets to escape the country.
This is real policy.
There are repercussions for saying you want free and fair elections, that is unacceptable
Do you have a source so I could read more about it?
No, no it’s not.
Ok live in your fantasy world where the CCP public policy doesn’t say that.
can you link?
Everything you listed is common to all authoritarian systems not just fascism. China is authoritarian not fascist.
Tradition is big. E.g TCM crap over science
You cannot disagree with the state
Stokes fear and hatred of outsiders
Blames social frustrations on those outsiders
Appeals to restore past glory
Han ethnic supremacy
You could go through all of Eco’s points and apply them to China pretty fittingly.
You cannot disagree with the state
Technically you could make thinly-veiled criticisms against local governments, but just not the central government or Xi Jingping
Or you can talk shit about the government behind closed doors, there are no telescreens like Orwell’s 1984.
TCM crap over science
That shit is fucking annoying. My mom keep telling me anti-depressants are bad 😓
Ok what about Robert Paxton’s? Those are a lot better thought out as his actual focus is fascism rather than it being a side gig like it is for Eco.
Been on xiaohongshu for a while now and the chinese netizens I interacted with were nothing but kind to foreigners even when we treated them like shit.
You’re interacting with the ones who are still allowed internet access.
Hold up, you think people in China aren’t allowed to access Chinese apps? 🤣
Many of them use VPNs to get around firewalls and I speak with them aswell on other platforms. I am learning mandarin and it is quite helpful. I don’t like everypart of their society, there is still some of misogyny and homophobia that makes me uncomfortable but I have seen worse here. The people of xiaohongshu are actually making great strides to combat this and I applaud them. I have probably spoken candidly with people from every major city. What makes you think people without global internet are inherently more reactionary. Wouldn’t their views be reflected in the people that have that access as well? If it is so nation wide?
Cool.
I’m glad their lives aren’t hell under their fascist regime.
Most of the time when a country tries to make an ethnostate the main race get to live pretty good lives.
Wild that you actually think China is a Han ethnostate. Are you the type to believe they are sterilizing their minorities?
Anecdotal evidence means nothing, doubly so from a .ml troll.
You can literally go on XHS or douyin and speak with them yourself
I’ve lived in China. I’ve had Chinese live with me. I actually know shit without going on social media and being fed propaganda.
Do tell, I’d love to know about your experience there
Appeals to restore past glory
Genuinely, what on earth are you talking about? China’s past is full of poverty, humiliation, and exploitation, literally, “The century of humiliation!” The only people who “appeal to restore past glory” are the CIA-funded Shen Yun performances romanticizing “China before communism.” The Chinese people I talk to will specifically point to the Qing as a clear demonstration of the danger of clinging to tradition and the necessity of adapting and looking forward.
China literally had a cultural revolution seeking to abolish tradition. I expect you would call that fascist just as you call if fascist whenever some people still follow tradition, after all:
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology… What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”
This is all some seriously internalized US propaganda.
So if you post on social media “I think Dictator Xi should be removed from office and we should have real elections again” nothing will happen?
I feel like something happens if you post that in China that you don’t want to talk about.
You can’t ask that in any authoritarian nation so. that isn’t demonstrating that China is fascist.
Doublethink is cringe.
Stop with the mental gymnastics before you pull a muscle
Saying something “is cringe” is a great way o demonstrate poor communication skills.
Nothing you mention is unique to fascism nor would be used by educated people to determine if a nation is fascist.
It’s ok that you know nothing about fascism as that is downright common on Lemmy but don’t double down on the arrogance after proving your ignorance.
What happens? Do you have any evidence of what happens besides your imagination?
We don’t have to imagine because they do that already.
This is exactly the propaganda I’m referring to. I’m sure some people are being detained unjustly. I’m also very sure that number, whether per capita or in raw headcount, is a lot lower than in the US.
What is? Calling China fascist isn’t American propaganda because the government and its sources do not claim China is fascist. The Americans calling China fascist are poorly educated in fascism. China is authoritarian but not fascist.
I’m agreeing with you for the most part, their list of talking points is the propaganda.
Anything negative of China is propaganda says the .ml tankie.
Gee, you wouldn’t happen to be utterly biased at all.
Lmao you know ml just stands for Mali in this case right? Like do you think they’re doing ideological purity testing when you sign up? Do you think my whole instance is CCP agents?
Accurate
Hello, I’m the other wolf
Why did you eat 2 wolves.
Jk. But you can appreciate Chinese innovation and simultaneously criticize the CCP, its not mutually exclusive.
Uwu
You might want to go to the doctor
As a Canadian: fuck American products. Y’all want a trade war with us, fuck your shit.
All that to say, it’s understandable to be angry at and suspicious of products made by antagonistic nations.
As a Venezuelan,Yeah!! fuck both, the US and China! 🔥🔥
Let’s be honest: the only reason for this is the oppressive chinese government, dead stop
I think part of it is being extra defensive considering our tankie neighbors… I don’t have any issues with the people of China, the culture of China, etc, etc.
I’ve always thought that everyone was on the same page about China’s oppressive government, but now it feels like it needs to be said, as there are people actively arguing in its favor.
I hope that in publicly questioning the narratives I’ve been fed all my life I am not assumed to be advocating for China.
I just like to try to think critically, compare disparate sources, and not pretend that I’m somehow immune to propaganda.
It seems like people are quick to try to label me a tankie these days for engaging with the world in that way, but I don’t consider myself a tankie. It feels like a thought-terminating cliche.
You cannot be on the side of the people of China, and claim China has an oppressive government.
Um, yes you obviously can
…given China is an open socialist democracy, no, no you can’t.
Anyone can run for office, anyone can get power.
Anyone can run for office
As chief of your village, sure.
Anything higher, no lol.
…how do you think people get in power in China, given there are no familial dynasties like the US?
Hard to say, considering Xi secured a 3rd term with a dog and pony show of party support. Also hilarious that you’d use a comparison like familial dynasties for the US from China of all places.
You understand that even a democratic government can be oppressive, right? You can absolutely dislike a government without disliking the people it represents.
Sure, the kakistocracy of the US can be called an oppressive democracy since only the rich vote on legislation, but that’s different from the peoples parliament which allows anyone to join and have power.
So, by your logic, you hate the people of the United States, right?
I bet if I would say “america is a democracy but it is oppressive”, they would agree, or start to express how it isn’t a democracy, because only wealthy people have a realistic shot.
People who claim shit like you can’t like the people and dislike the government in a democracy, are telling me that I can’t like my friends and love my partner. I mean e.g. I met her after I dislike her government at the time.
共匪滾開
共狗 is a better term, similar to 走狗
Naw the same shit happens on Reddit and Facebook and every other place that isn’t TikTok or XHS. There’s a chart that shows Americans’ opinion of China being more or less 50/50 until 2015ish and then turning sharply negative after the trade war/propaganda blitz against them that started during Trump’s first term.
Don’t forget things like China blatantly stealing IP fro the west.
And rich Chinese buying up land in western countries.
And rich Chinese students going to universities in the west and then buying/cheating their way through their degree.
And (this might come under your point) destroying domestic industries of western countries by flooding the market with cheap inferior products.
I really don’t care how much the US complains about Chinese nationalism when they pull the same crap in practically every 3rd world country for the sake of holding power.
There’s a reason why so many 3rd world immigrants in the US feel unfazed by Trump because they essentially grew up in some Washington backed imperialist government which was way worse, hence the reason they emigrated.
They understand that neither country is some beacon of hope, they’re just two big competitors that keep each other somewhat in check. The tradeoff you get for joining the US is freedom of expression and representation (mostly) and the tradeoff you get for joining China is faster upward momentum and social stability (mostly). Its better to have at least two choices instead of one which in reality would be none.
Yes there will always be sketchy things you probably shouldn’t touch, but we’re really out here defending internet censorship over TikTok as if the NSA doesn’t have 2/3rd of the modern world permanently bugged.
As we all know, there has never been any chinese app trending in the US. This because people hate the Chinese and everything they touch /s
Ehh i dont like the obsession with one of the most racist and xenophobic countries today, even tho i know its not why they like japan.
china is an entire economy based on intellectual property thievery and human slavery. the ccp are evil, and dangerous to all of humanity. go try your bullshit someplace else.
You’re literally describing how US companies turn a profit.
It’s just a meme, fella. Chill out.
I mean, the message of your meme is calling out people who have these biases. I am not surprised those people jumped to defend them.
FINALLY, SOMEONE GETS IT. THANK YOU 😭
Intellectual property is bullshit
Ah, so what is the incentive to develop complex things when anyone can just copy it?
You don’t need to have “intellectual property” to create new and complex things, or how did humanity functioned before the term (only legal, by the way) was created? All art and inventions of the past are remixes or reinventions of past works, it is communal creation, (made by human for human, in case there are those who think AI does the same, which it does not).
How does open source software exist then? Lemmy? Mastodon? Linux?
Just because intellectual property can be voluntarily relinquished to great effect doesn’t mean the option to retain it should be abolished.
But that is not the point the other comment was making. It said that there is no incentive to create something and innovate if anyone can just copy it, and the whole FLOSS movement is a prove that is not the case. Same thing with the argument against UBI that would remove the insentive for people to work.
You can have other justification for IP, but that was the one the commenter gave and it is empirically false.
What is the incentive to create and innovate FOSS? Altruism? I’m genuinely asking. Maybe I don’t know enough about the movement.
People like to make stuff for themselves, to do things, to share, and feel useful. I believe it is the default state of people, you see that in families and close friends. You see people simply doing stuff for themselves and sharing the results. You can build a pool and invite over your friends and such. It is nice when you do something for yourself but that other people also enjoy.
So I think the primary reason is that people like to do things to benefit themselves, things that they want the result or that they enjoy doing the process, and then why not share, even better if other people enjoy the result. It is like cooking for your family or friends
For more than just monitary gain?
Maybe the value of things shouldn’t be measured witha dollar sign if we want to evolve past a warhungry feudal society
Are you serious? Maybe so people can live better and create things that are even better and more helpful? Or is “for the betterment of humanity” not a good enough reason to do things for you? I know not everyone has the time/money/ability to be focusing all their time on helping people but this is such a depressing question.
I’m sorry, “entire economy” based on “human slavery”? That’s absurd. Yes the CCP abuses the fuck out of the Uighurs and it’s awful, but this is insane hyperbole.
The US also uses slavery, very literally, very out in the open and doesn’t hide it to the point that the details are fuzzy and unclear.
It does it both very directly via prison inmates being used for labour for peanuts against their will by corporations in agreement with corpos that run their prisons and in the less direct way where the fed and state governments don’t do shit about/give subsidies to farmers that hoover up disenfranchised illegals to stack em and pack em in sheds so they can work their fields for fuck all.
Both of those are such mainstream facts there’s even a John Oliver episode about both topics from years ago.
Would you say the “entire economy” of the US is based on “human slavery”?
I doubt it.
Not to mention you bring that up alongside “intellectual property thievery”, are those two really of even similar magnitude? Surely “human slavery” is a bit more serious than downloading a picture of mickey mouse off Google images, nah?
you really really are that unaware of the pay, living and working conditions of the average chinese factory worker. jfc.
protip: check out all the downvotes. lol. the ccp are rife on lemmy now. be aware, they are among us, attempting to subvert and promote their bullshit propganda. the chinese ccp can fuck off into the sun.
The CCP isn’t ripe, you’re just spreading western propaganda and severely misinforned.
Do enlighten me then?
From a quick Google search, the average (mean, presumably) salary for a Chinese manufacturing worker in Shenzen is CNY 47 per hour, which is only £5.21 and seems very low.
However, per Wise, the average 1-bedroom apartment in Shenzen outside the city centre is approximately CNY 2,900 or CNY 5,400 in the city centre.
At CNY 8,225 per month, which is far below average for the city (CNY ~12,000), even average rent is quite affordable.
In China, minimum wage is set by region, so Shenzen’s minimum wage is 2,360 per month, which is still 81% of the average rent.
Not great pay at all obviously, especially the minimum wage, but I don’t think it’s any more “slavery” than anywhere else really?
I picked Shenzen because as far as I understand it, it’s kind of manufacturing hub. Half the things I own are prolly made in Shenzen I noticed, and I don’t shop at any Chinese shops (Temu, wish, AliExpress, etc.) nor Amazon.
I’ve taken the figures from here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_China
https://wise.com/gb/cost-of-living/china/shenzhen
https://www.erieri.com/salary/job/manufacturing-worker/china/shenzhen
I’m unsure about the quality of the sources and there is probably better data, plus I’d prefer median figures by age group and whether it’s for full-time/part-time and to balance that with an unemployment rate (and preferably not a bullshit stat that excludes people on benefits etc). That would give us a bit more of an actual indication.
I’m happy to be educated.
What? Don’t you see people flocking to TikTok? RedNote? And now deepseek?
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I used to wonder how Japanese media was so bad compared to their neighbours (storytelling wise) then I started watching Thai programmes and Japanese could definitely be worse
Ever seen the Chinese localization of Tom and Jerry? They voice over everything and add a ton of sound effects so there’s no confusion. Politics aside, who is exactly are they protecting by banning zombies and ghosts. Well, they can have zombies, but not too gory and they can’t call them zombies.
I like Thunderbolt Fantasy, so I should like Pili Fantasy(Taiwan), but it’s way too much soap opera. Thunderbolt is a nice balance between something new and the pacing of a 12 episode anime.
South Korean stuff bothers me. They haven’t become disillusioned capitalism yet, so the subtext misses for me. I can’t tell what the point of Tower of God is. The harem stuff they put out puts Japan to shame.
You’ve badly misread Korean contemporary culture.
To be fair, I’m only seeing the stuff people put in front of me. I know Squid Game has the right idea, but Tower of God is flat out bad.
By which two cherrypicked media titles shall we judge your culture?
Don’t know. Popular US media is trash. Way, way too much upholding the status quo shit for me to care if you want to trash on it.
South Korean stuff bothers me. They haven’t become disillusioned capitalism yet
What did you think of the episode of Squid game where everyone escapes the evil death games, and then realises that they actually like the evil death games better than normal capitalism?
Media is one of Japans major exports and allowed them to build major metropolitan areas even though the end of WWII left them broken and impoverished.
There really is no justification to simp for any country/government. They are all pretty terrible and genocidal.
There are actually governments in the world that aren’t terrible or genocidal. It’s pretty nationalistic to think that because where you live is terrible that everywhere must be bad.
I can name a place. Iceland is not currently committing or assisting in genocide .
Name a government that’s not terrible and I’ll find you some articles showing the state being terrible.
Statism is unjust.
Nationalism, and especially jingoism, are very dangerous indeed.
Wow, that makes no point. Neat.
For me its kinda opposite.
I’m ethnic Chinese and have this bad feeling about Japanese things. Like I do not hate Japanese people, I just have this bad feeling about their culture and society. I feel like they are very conservative. Like people say “Japanese people are so nice”, I get Sino-Japanese war flashbacks (well not exactly “flashbacks”, I wasn’t alive at that time, but y’all know what I mean), I don’t think I’d feel welcome if I ever went to Japan as a tourist, even as a US citizen. Japan always has this weird anti-foreigner sentinment, especially the anti-Chinese sentinment. They (allegedly, according to the news) deny the Nanjing Massacre in schools, erasing it from history books. Some stores (allegedly) have a “No Chinese People or Dogs” sign on their door. Every time people praise Japan like “they are so punctual”, I remember the train accidents that same “punctuality” that it caused. And the guilty until proven innocent sentinment that is almost as bad as authoritarian countries (like China).
Although, Anime is kinda cool tho, not a weeb but I watched a few. I just don’t like the “fan service” things they put in Anime.
In contrast, while I do get sus of Chinese electronics, that more about CCP and spyware, less about the fact that they are “China”. The fact that they are “China” doesn’t bother me. And I’d get sus too if a US company got too close to the NSA. But if I get a Chinese phone, I’d have both CCP and NSA spyware, so I rather have less spyware than more.
Also, the US trying to ban DJI (and other Chinese made drones) is such a dumb thing. That is the type of “China Bad” sentinment I just fucking hate, its not even about CCP anymore. Like, I could use drones with a second smartphone that’s airgapped and not have any data leaks. Or use a remote with a built in screen. Besides, why does the government care so much, drones aren’t allowed into military bases, everywhere else is just public data. Google Maps already hsve the entire US mapped, and even images of entire streets, more detail than any drone can gather. And a CCP spy wouldn’t be obeying US laws anyways and even if they ban DJI, spies would just use a DIY drone to get in to military bases. They are essentially trying to legislate away people’s hobbies. wtf lol
Recently, the new Indiana Jones game highlighted Japan’s aerial bombardment of Shanghai before WW2. It was a nice reminder to me that Japan is hardly an innocent nation, no matter how much they’re praised for today.
The Yakuza games also have some pretty good focus on how they treat the homeless, including demographics of Chinese and Korean immigrants that get marginalized.
The electronics bit is where I’m concerned, in part because their aggression is not limited to government, but also private citizens. They’ve previously attempted to repatriate immigrants via coercion and forced abductions.
forced abductions
Ay yo wtf. Source?
I have 2 threats to worry about?
Fascist Magats and Random CCP motherfuckers?
😭
(fuck my life)
Source might take me a while; but these were targeted to former Chinese residents who packed up and left. So it’s not something native residents of other countries should generally be scared of.
EDIT: Found a decent Wikipedia article pretty quickly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_repression_by_China
Another one, less sure about the source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/#cookie_message_anchor
if you fled China because you had to or else bad things would happen, there’s a good chance you’re gonna get stalked and sent death threats both physically and in digital form. Its crazy how far their reach is and how governments globally just don’t care because it would be such a hassle to deal with.
This is an interesting take. I’ve been to Japan as a tourist once, and I can tell it was probably one of my best trips I’ve ever made (the sheer amount of novelty and getting around the people was really cool), and I can attest the people were very nice to me. But I can also tell, if I was part of the work force, the sentiment would be different. I did never see signs against Chinese people anywhere BTW.
As for the “China bad” part. Check how people brigade on shitter to “cancel people out” (very definition of cancel culture) and you quickly see that some people LOVE the mob mentality. This is also what is going on people going after stuff such as dji for no reason (but I will say straight up, I am not sure if I would trust network equipment easily. Same for me actually applies to cisco as well)
The racism in Japan isn’t outward, they keep it to themselves. You wouldn’t even notice it if you went there as a tourist, since they stay polite. The “no gaijin allowed” places are rare unless you want to visit a certain type of establishment 😉 Japan has systemic racism against ethnic Chinese citizens, but the average Japanese person isn’t really racist to Chinese people and if they are it’s from ignorance rather than hatred. Japan is one of the top foreign destinations for tourists from China. It wouldn’t be if Chinese people weren’t welcome.
You’d have a tougher time in South Korea. Where they actually say racist shit to your face.
