Summary
Australia has enacted strict anti-hate crime laws, mandating jail sentences for public Nazi salutes and other hate-related offenses.
Punishments range from 12 months for lesser crimes to six years for terrorism-related hate offenses.
The legislation follows a rise in antisemitic attacks, including synagogue vandalism and a foiled bombing plot targeting Jewish Australians.
The law builds on state-level bans, with prior convictions for individuals performing Nazi salutes in public spaces, including at sporting events and courthouses.
The thing is this just makes it “cooler” among the Nazis because now it’s illegal. It plays right into their persecution complex. It also opens up a legal morass of trying to define a hand gesture in court. To me this seems like it’s fighting the symptoms and not the underlying problems.
The thing is this just makes it “cooler” among the Nazis because now it’s illegal.
Only until they are caught.
Then they become martyrs for their group.
It also opens up a legal morass of trying to define a hand gesture in court> It also opens up a legal morass of trying to define a hand gesture in court I feel like that part would just be the same way porn is treated, "I [the judge] know it when I see it]
A Nazi/Hitler salut was always illegal in Germany after WW 2 and courts figured it out what counts as a nazi salute and what not (it often comes down to context i guess).
Nonsense.
Courts are good at figuring out what constitutes an illegal action. It’s what they’re intended to do and what they have been doing since the dawn of civilisation.
I don’t really care what Nazis think is “cool”.
It’s addressing the underlying problem by communicating the seriousness of the threat of fascism to everyone.
Judges could have biases of their own whether they realise it or not.
I hope you’re right but I’m less optimistic about courts.
Remember that Hersant idiot from a few months back did the salute outside a courthouse.
He was found guilty, judge gave no fucks: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-08/vic-nazi-salute-jacob-hersant-court/104443118
Multiple front page Reddit articles about this as well. Look at the downvote ratio compared to discussions. Israel just pulling the strings as usual & everyone is falling for it, as they plan to take over Gaza & call you all Nazis for opposing it.
Curse you, Israel! How dare you get people to call those doing Nazi salutes Nazis in Australia with your… kabbalistic magic?
More like Israel why do you show your population non-stop propaganda & conscript them to join your military & engage in psyops & social media influence on your behalf. This is all verifiable on Wikipedia BTW with references.
Also no one cares that they get called Nazis. I care when you start locking people up for expressing themselves in ways that are non violent. Lock up all the Nazis assaulting people you want, but when you start assaulting people for what they wear or hand signs they make, then you become the violent criminal.
Sorry… which are you saying, that Israel’s behavior forces people to make Nazi salutes when they otherwise wouldn’t or that everyone who makes Nazi salutes is secretly an Israeli operative?
Also, a Nazi salute is a pretext to violence. You want to wait until someone is actually beaten to death before the arrests start?
No, I’m saying that Israel runs psyops.
You know what is actual violence? Punching people in the face. Everyone has the potential to become violent. That doesn’t mean you can go around punching everyone in the face. Go ask the cops they’ll help explain it to you if you need help understanding the concept.
Go ask the cops they’ll help explain it to you if you need help understanding the concept.
…and the authoritarian emerges from their shell.
Oh right, you are pro criminal. I forgot that you defend the rapist.
You will not find a single quote of me ever defending any rapist. You can search my entire history and not find one.
You either know this and are lying or never checked and are lying.
Why do people insist on lying about me to my face?
Trump puts tariffs on Australia…
And Musk to block Starlink from Australia.
gosh, how we let the weird kid gather so much power…
He’s gonna get starlink to burn insects like with a magnifying glass. Maybe the Jewish space lasers were Nazi space lasers all along.
Wow I never thought about this but would not be surprised at the development. If you vertically integrate the company that controls the satellites, the company that launches them into orbit, the govt that oversees it all, etc, you could just send whatever up there, especially with hundreds of launches and satellites.
They’re projecting like always.
In their defense, that’s the only thing lasers know how to do.
So this is Australia, but imagine we did something like this in the USA. A Nazi salute is a form of hate crime against Jewish people, would it also be illegal to use Racial Slurs?
Even Jewish people defend Nazis right to free speech:
But go ahead & tell everyone how saluting is a hate crime. Now imagine your right to protest, or say something negative about the President being taken away because you didn’t like free speech.
Even Jewish people defend Nazis right to free speech
How did that work out for them?
Was there another Holocaust or something I don’t know about during the time in this article?
Not quite yet - the US is currently in the Night of Long Knives phase of allowing Nazis to come into power, so perhaps soon.
Why, did the first one not count?
To be clear, the article calls the salute a hate crime. I’m restating it in my comment since it’s relevant to my question.
Many countries do have hate-speech laws, and law against Nazi propaganda.
As usual intent and context matters, but I don’t see why you should defend the right to use racial slur in a racist manier
Because it isn’t physically violent. Black Democrats are out there making racial comments about white people as well. I don’t think they should be locked up, do you?
Burning a cross on someone’s lawn isn’t physically violent either. So I guess you’re okay with it?
So you illegally trespass onto someone elses’ property which is their safe zone to commit arson & vandalism? You are allowed to burn all the crosses you want on your own lawn as long as it doesn’t violate fire codes where you live. That is free speech. Really dumb argument by you BTW. Do you want to be locked up for it cause you don’t like free speech?
You can burn a cross on a sidewalk in front of someone’s house. That is not trespassing or vandalism or arson and is exactly how the KKK has gotten away with it in the past.
And yes, I do want them to be locked up for that. You are either okay with it or didn’t even consider the possibility that a sidewalk is a public space.
Apples and oranges. A nazi salute is not a racial comment. It’s a signal of allegiance to extermination (which, by the way, extermination is physically violent).
The idealistic fantasy that we should permit the intentional organisation of Nazism is not an effective way to preserve liberty of speech. Australia has no intention of becoming the failing pseudo-liberalist state that the USA is. So if the law doesn’t stop them, our communities will continue to step up and silence them ourselves.
That’s generally how it works in countries with hate speech laws, yes. Civilisation doesn’t work when civility is required only of a subset of the population, no matter its shape.
Also for the record in Germany the salute doesn’t qualify as incitement to hatred, at least not without further context, it’s plain and simply use of a symbol of an outlawed organisation, which is punishable if it is done in the furtherance of the goals and aims of that organisation. Same law applies to e.g. 1%er badges. I think there’s “gang symbols” type legislation in the US, so why the sudden pearl-clutching when the violent goons signalling each other happen to be Nazis? It’s a criminal organisation having had their official structures banned still trying to organise, that’s illegal.
I’m not pearl clutching. I’m a free speech absolutist. I support cosplay Nazis right to free speech just like I support people’s rights to call cops pigs, etc. Also gang signs aren’t illegal.
You’d be surprised how many times free speech has benefited Democrats. Remember how many up votes praising Luigi Mangione got, now those same people want to eliminate free speech. Good luck to them. I’ll just sit here & watch as I get downvoted into oblivion. Not like they bothered actually studying history.
cosplay
Not what anyone is talking about.
Democrats
Luigi Mangione
You mean the party that co-created the conditions that made that happen. Both of the parties are complicit in turning the country into an oligarchy. The US is completely cooked politically speaking, you’re not a standard or role model for anyone. Your completely fucked-up political culture and completely absent standards of civility are part of that. Not a thing you should be proud of.
Where are you from? America has become the most successful superpower due to free speech. Go ahead tell us how much we suck. Maybe you should go look in the mirror first though.
Have you watched the news lately.
A Nazi salute is a form of hate crime against Jewish people, would it also be illegal to use Racial Slurs?
Why would it? One does not imply the other.
Also, a Nazi salute isn’t just a slur. It’s (at least) signaling that you want a bunch of groups exterminated (Jews are one of those many groups).
Slippery slope
Can Canada do this too?
Send nazi pig Elon there on a one way flight.
Hey now! Australia is probably sick of everyone just sending criminals there!
See, I am overall against any and all limits of free speech but…
Yeah. Context matters. And in current world context, good job Australia, hope outher countries take notes.
Knowing my luck, I’d get 12 months for having my arm at an unfavourable angle while giving directions.
but…
That’s where you lost me.
Literal hate crimes, I’m all for. A gesture with your arm gets you 12 months? That’s too much, regardless of its origin or meaning.
I’ll say, likely wasting my digital breath, I do not support any sort of Nazi bullshit or affiliates. But truly, outlawing gestures is a next level, knee jerk reaction to a problem they don’t know what else to do to solve.
While without context I’d agree that banning a gesture is a bit much, especially with such steep measures, I think that in a world when one of the de facto co-leaders of major if not the main world superpowers openly does nazi salute twice, we need to up the guard and cut this shit in the bud.
And as you said - we don’t know how to solve USA becoming a nazi state rapidly. Nobody does. And third reich ain’t gonna hold a candle to USA if they decide it’s time for blitzkrieg. So doingall we can to damage and reduce nazizm where we still can is admirable.
If you read the article, just a gesture with your arm does not land a person a 12-month prison sentence. It needs to be in public and in combination with: hateful speech, or a hateful act. It seems to be an add-on for specific types of hate crimes.
Excellent, then I’m all for it.
So Elon Musk would’ve been in the clear.
Actually I don’t think so, because not only was it on a public stage, he also used racist dog whistles during his speech. If Musk had zeek-hailed like he did during that speech, in Australia, it’s possible he would have gotten 12 months.
he alludes to the fourteen words right after the salute so you could make a case
It’s a nazi fucken salute mate. What part of it isn’t a hate crime?
The part where it’s raising your arm at an angle. You dislike it because of what it means and signifies, but imagine some group took ‘flipping the bird’ to align with their ideology and in 20 years your kid gets arrested for flipping someone off.
Obviously a silly example but you have to look past the context and think about what are we really doing here? Jailing people for a gesture?
That’s fucking wild.
I generally don’t do “slippery slope” arguments, and I also dislike invoking the “paradox of tolerance”, but I will say that I think the messaging here is important.
To me, it’s not “just a gesture”. It’s a very clear and intentional demonstration of ideological alignment, and it’s an ideology of hate and intolerance.
I’m absolutely ok with expressing, as a society, that we will not accept this ideology amongst us. If they want to scuttle around through the cracks like cockroaches then so be it.
Fair point, best explained response yet.
The problem is application of this kind of law tends to be highly subjective depending on who is in power. This law is ironically ripe for abuse by fascists. This type of free speech should be met with universal scorn, shaming, and ostracism, not jail.
Yeah nah. Any law is ripe for abuse by fascists.
To me the law is less about punishing Nazis and more of a clear statement that as a society we find this ideology unacceptable.
You sound like those cops who tell victims of domestic violence that there’s nothing they can do until lives are being threatened.
Cool dude. You sound like a battered house wife that sticks up for her abusive husband.
I don’t really understand this whole “free speech” thing. If it were ww2 would you be worried about nazis having free speech or would you do what needed to be done?
This isn’t WWII, we aren’t in war. By letting go of free speech you are letting goverment tell you what is ok to talk about, and by doing that you allow them to expand taboo. In times of need like today, that is necessary evil, however normally that is something out of horror.
For example, whether you agree or not, at the end of WW II communism was seen as almost as bad as nazizm, and in USA I think, may be wrong, that it was seen as worse. What’s bad is that every social policy is coupled with it mentally. If free speech wasn’t a thing, USA could tell it’s citizens that talking about nazizm, communism, social policies or unions is strictly forbidden under threat of, at least, financial fine.
Oh boy do I have news for you about what the US did without laws to anyone considered communist. Free speech has and will never be absolute, so it is up to us to determine what is allowed and what is not.
Any good tech companies in Australia? How hard are the citizenship requirements if you avoid all the Mel Gibsons?
Yeah. How about from 1948?
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I think it should be legal to do exactly one free punch on anyone who does a nazi salute.
I say two
Redefining the freedom of speech can be a slippery slope. It will depend upon who is in power and their personal views. Hate speech is something that can be targetted. There would need to be statutory limitations to prevent misuse of the legislative principles. If the Germans can do it right, so can we, wherever we live.
Kudos to Australia. Leon Hitler should travel there, have his arrested and deposited in the middle of the Great Australian Desert.
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