• wise_pancake@lemmy.ca
    36·
    11 days ago

    Maybe Musk needs to learn about data normalization and natural keys.

    I’m curious what the actual data looks like. I’ve spent quite a bit of time auditing large data systems.

    I would expect these databases to be largely denormalized with very wide tables, I would expect them to favour natural keys like a SSNs, and built around per department use cases.

    I would not expect them to be highly normalized because then when you need something from another department you need them to ensure consistency.

    These systems probably have like 50 years of legacy code or more in them too.

    • pixxelkick@lemmy.world
      281·
      11 days ago

      They probably do use lots of NoSQL DBs too, which perform better for non relational “data lake” style architectures where you just wanna dump mountains of data as fast as possible into storage, to be perused later.

      When you have cases where you have very very high volume of data in, but very low need to query it (but some potential need, just very low), nosql DBs excel

      Stuff like census data where you just gotta legally store it for historical reasons, and very rarely some person will wanna query it for a study or something.

      Keep in mind when I talk about low need to query, the opposite high need us on the scale of like, "this db gets queried multiple times per minute’

      Stuff like… logins to a website, data that gets queried many times per minute or even second, then sometimes nosql DBs fall off.

      Depends what is queried.

      Super basic “lookup by ID” Stuff that operates as just a big ole KeyValuePair mapping ID -> Value? And thats all you gotta query?

      NoSql is still the right tool for the job.

      The moment any kind of JOIN enters the discussion though, chances are you actually wanna use sql now

      • Thorry84@feddit.nl
        28·
        11 days ago

        So you’re saying Relational DataBase Management Systems do really well as soon as Relations are involved?

        • yopp@infosec.pubEnglish
          2·
          11 days ago

          What’s funny is that Relational Databases in fact sucks when somewhat complex Relations are involved. Moment you step out the of the realm of Tabular data you’ll have very miserable time. Like good luck modeling and querying simple nested product catalog.

          Graph databases are better choice for truly relational data

        • pixxelkick@lemmy.world
          1·
          11 days ago

          Eyup, it’s intuitive overall but there’s just weirdly some people out there that are all or nothing, and don’t understand “right tool for the job” lol

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        4·
        11 days ago

        Just so you know census data is very heavily queried. Everything from civil engineering to economics wants to look at that dataset every day.

        • pixxelkick@lemmy.world
          31·
          11 days ago

          Like I said, in the scale compared to actual high frequency data though, that’s still be infrequent.

          High frequency DBs are on the scale of many queried per second

          Even with tonnes of data scientists and engineers querying the data, that’s still in the scale of queries per minute, which is low frequency in the data world.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            2·
            11 days ago

            I wouldn’t put it past them to experience numbers in the per second realm, especially as new data posts and everyone is rushing to grab it.

    • suy@programming.devOP
      53·
      11 days ago

      Ah, a classic watch. :-)

      Elon probably thinks that SQL is MS SQL Sever, MySQL, or some such.

      • 9point6@lemmy.world
        31·
        11 days ago

        Elon probably thinks

        Not really sure he does, I think he’s clearly paying others to do that for him

        • suy@programming.devOP
          4·
          11 days ago

          My bad, I forgot he doesn’t have time to think.

          Too busy being one of the best players at Path of Exile 2. Despite that he doesn’t identify the valuable loot. Or how to use the map. Or how levels work. But he’s top 50! All very believable.

    • jballs@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      1·
      11 days ago

      Lol had never seen that before, but Jesus Christ that is a painful depiction of my life.

  • i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca
    3491·
    11 days ago

    Elon’s shock and fury about the database key sounds like he got a report from an out-of-breath 20 year old DOGE kid who thinks they’re hot shit and discovered some massive flaw.

    Elon also seems like the kind of person that believes a database schema is all that’s needed to govern a population.

    • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
      511·
      11 days ago

      Database schema = “Not fraudulant”, what’s so hard about that? Login credentials don’t even need to be encrypted if you say no fraud before you log in, and cross your fingers. It’s basic programming knowledge, come on man. Also throw some salt over shoulder and slaughter a goat for good measure just in case.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        4·
        11 days ago

        Login? Why would I do that? Aren’t the credentials in the code? I just hit the go button.

      • renzev@lemmy.world
        5·
        11 days ago

        Login credentials don’t even need to be encrypted if you say no fraud before you log in, and cross your fingers

        Don’t forget to unset the evil bit as well!

        • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
          15·
          11 days ago

          You joke, but one of the programs at my work we use legit doesn’t need credentials, just a username. That one’s a head scratcher to me.

          • brbposting@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            11 days ago

            Would that almost be OK if it were like 40 characters long? Like, you can view any photo on Google Photos if you have the right alphanumeric string

            Would still be saved insecurely in password managers and other issues though

  • Midnitte@beehaw.orgEnglish
    51·
    11 days ago

    Musk doesn’t understand database design (or the existence of PRIMARY KEY ()), surprise.

  • dan1101@lemm.ee
    397·
    11 days ago

    That’s weird, I thought I used SQL databases from government agencies regularly. Guess I was mistaken.

    • Susaga@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      3431·
      11 days ago

      If you and Elon disagree about something, just assume he’s wrong about it. If you both agree on something, THEN you might be mistaken.

      • cm0002@lemmy.world
        51·
        11 days ago

        If it’s tech he doesn’t know shit about it, I learned that years ago during the Twitter acquisition days

        He sounds like a CEO who “knows enough to fuck shit up, not enough to know how to fix it, but thinks they do” AKA the worst executive known to IT

          • Laurel Raven@lemmy.zipEnglish
            8·
            11 days ago

            How about the submarine he was going to build to save kids in a cave that obviously would have drowned long before he could have even really started work? But it’s okay, he could just accuse the guy who actually saved their lives of being a pedo

      • dan1101@lemm.ee
        48·
        11 days ago

        Indeed. I’m starting to think I can’t trust what that Musk guy says.

        • oo1@lemmings.worldEnglish
          132·
          11 days ago

          I hope the screenshot dude is also going to stop this unquestioning belief in the things people say or claim without evidence.

          Those first two paragraphs look like a tendency to prefer hero-worship to critical thought; that seems to be a fairly widespread problem in humans from long before this latest batch of demagogues.

          There’s also a hint of “I’m not an ‘expert’ in it so I can’t (be bothered) to understand anything about it” also a very depressingly common attitude.

          • frezik@midwest.social
            321·
            11 days ago

            We all have to rely on somebody to be an expert in fields outside our own. Years ago, if Elon said “Falcon 9 launch yesterday failed due to xyz”, I assumed he had the actual experts giving him notes. The Xhitter debacle showed how much he doesn’t listen to those people.

            • oo1@lemmings.worldEnglish
              25·
              11 days ago

              I just dont get why you have to assume that though?

              Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I’ve met and worked with enough humans that I think the best assumtion is that they’re all full of shit until they prove otherwise.

              It’s fine to rely on experts for some things, but if those experts aren’t subject to independent scrutiny or directly independent of the claim or sunjecy under test, or can’t give clear testable /replicable evidence, I’d just not put much weight on their testimony as a source of evidence.

            • jballs@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              19·
              11 days ago

              It’s kind of funny, but we all do this to some extent. I used to think most people on Reddit were super smart. If someone says stuff with authority, then it’s easy to believe what they’re saying and assume they know what they’re talking about.

              But then every once in a while, I’d come across a topic that I know deeply about - and the comment would just be blatantly wrong, but still have tons of up votes. It really made me start second guessing all the other comments I had read and thought were smart, but it’s an easy trap to fall into.

              I guess what I’m really saying, is that you all are a bunch of morons, probably.

  • Whirlybird@aussie.zone
    39·
    10 days ago

    See the post on BlueSky

    No thanks, that alone says you’re not going to get an honest unbiased discussion. Also when your evidence is “according to many comments” from a app filled with people that hate Musk with all their being as if it’s their entire identity, it’s not good evidence.

    Being a developer who has done work for many governments in my country, you cannot just say “the government DOES use SQL” because they have many, many, MANY different systems that have all been built in different technologies over different decades by different people with different design philosophies and preferences. Will there be ones that use SQL? Absolutely. Will there be ones that don’t? Absolutely.

  • ansiz@lemmy.worldEnglish
    61·
    10 days ago

    If SSN based fraud is the program then let’s establish an actual federal identification number. Even the Social Services bureau tried to get everyone to not use it as the end all source of truth. They only created it for social security benefits, literally only that purpose.

  • bitchkat@lemmy.worldEnglish
    31·
    10 days ago

    I’d bet that the government is probably the largest user of SQL. Unless there are really old systems that predate SQL. I’d imagine they have shitloads of COBOL for example.