You know, DOGE, fascist president and corporations dictating what people can do, institutions being ruined, laws being ignored. Is there any way out of that or is it over? Is the USA done?
In the short term, yes.
If trump remains in office after this term, absolutely yes.
If we get a different admin - not just another republicrat trump clone - they’re going to have to spend an inordinate amount of time fixing all of trump’s fuckups. One of which should be restricting any wannabe monarch’s ability to rule by decree in the US. So yeah, we’re fucked, and we’re gonna have to spend a lot of effort getting unfucked, digging ourselves out of an oligarchy hole, instead of moving forward from a continually advancing starting point.
E: allies are already turning away from us, politically and economically. They’ll form new alliances and relationships that the US doesn’t get to be a part of, or at least won’t get a leading position in. Same with things like soft power from international aid. China will step in, maybe the EU or even Russia. We lose the goodwill, stability, and any economic “ins” we could have achieved with that soft power. We’re fucked in lots of ways.
Yeah no, this will be long term
First trump term, him fucking over all allies is something the allies could forgive. Second time, not so much. Allies now know they can’t rely on the US to be a trustworthy ally.
Trump already destroyed all soft power, he wants to reduce military spending by 50% too, so hard power will be down the drain as well.
Then he’s destroying the economy, he increased highcorruption like there is no tomorrow, he is destroying education and he is destroying all oversight on companies
He’s working hard on destroying democratic institutions too so forget fair elections, as if the US ever had any.
IMHO, the US will never recover from trump, and that is what it deserves. It always had the great chance to be truely great but it fucked itself around every corner trying to please the rich
he wants to reduce military spending by 50% too, so hard power will be down the drain as well.
You say this like it’s a bad thing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mentally_ill_monarchs
Trump is the first very televised idiot for this list… Tho the people are even less sane for REelecting him
It’s some very good news if he’s indeed dramatically downsizing the military. Gives Canada and Mexico a fighting chance! Will Canada be USA’s next Vietnam experience?
Canadian Moose Cavalry, anyone?
Depends how that happens. I’ld see them sell off lots of high tech gear to highest bidding crazy people for a quick cash grab. Same amount of weapons, less controlled.
We lose the goodwill
Gone. It’s gone. I’m your neighbor. There’s no more goodwill. It’s been completely replaced with desire to see your hubris teach a collective lesson, and a process of internal reflection on how we can not end up like you.
Hope you effectively learn that lesson. I don’t blame any country for turning away from the US. Stupid people electing destructive narcissists and doing absolutely nothing to prevent it.
3 generations of people ‘voting according to their pocketbooks’ makes an easily controlled monoculture.
Their pocketbooks were morons for three generations, too.
a process of internal reflection on how we can not end up like you.
Better focus on that really hard, because the rise of far-right parties around the world shows a lot of people are heading in the same direction. Absolutely condemn us, but watch your own back yards as well.
My country looked up to the US as a charismatic winner with a big ego and an anger problem, who turned full coked up psychopath now. I listened to the Fall of Civilizations-Podcast a lot and this feels like one. It’s scary to watch and I feel sorry for all the good people living in this mess. But I agree, there is no sympathy left. Let the raging insanity humble the evil empire.
Is your country Germany? Please don’t repeat our mistakes AND the mistakes of your past! The AfD gaining ground is very worrisome.
We’re kin. Fall of civ is my dystopian lullaby. I can hear that piano refrain, but it’s about us now.
I read an interview with the guy, he said that there are only a few fallen civilizations left to talk about and that he wants to end his podcast with an episode about us and our (first time ever) global civilization. Looking forward to that.
On the other hand, I read and listened to Kim Stanley Robinson a lot. In this podcast, he explains why he doesn’t want to write dystopian novels, that they comfortably trap our mind. That we need utopian stories to not give up and let them™ win. I think he has a point.
During my lifetime, the view people have of the US has completely changed.
It used to be “When I grow up, I want to move there.” and “Oh, you went to the US on vacation? AWESOME”.
Now it’s “Why the fuck would you go there, are you stupid?”Agreed on all counts.
I mean, don’t be so defeatist. Thats what they want you to feel.
We still have a last line of defence: Federalism.
We’d just have to hope the Democratic governors have the spine to stand up against Federal tyranny when the time comes, when they use the military against the people. And it’s up to the people in the 50 State’s National Guard, and law enforcement, and the military to decide between the constitution and fascism.
As for the federal firings, that’s not something that state governments can do anything about, so that’s unstoppable. But if you are talking about soldiers on the streets nazi style, probably not happening yet. We still have a bit of time to change course.
I’ll tell you this: if the 2026 midterms elections is cancelled, or if republicans win both houses, there’s probably no hope (since the opposition usually gains during midterms). That’s just civil war, and you’ll have to hope the pro-constitution side wins the civil war.
TLDR: You’ll have to hope elections still exist, and hope that democrats win in 2026, hopefully both houses. And also they’ll have to win 2028 with a trifecta.
And States run elections btw, the federal government will literally have to deploy troops to stop elections. And the governors can try to use the National Guard to blockcade federal troops from entering.
And it’s up to the people in the 50 State’s National Guard, and law enforcement, and the military to decide between the constitution and fascism.
Okay but you do remember we were here before and the national guard and law enforcement extremely made it very clear who’s side they were on… right?
Yes I know. They are right wing, they always have been.
Even when the miliary affirmed Biden’s victory, that was a right wing military doing so.
The questions is: How far will they go.
If you were talking about Jan 6, that’s because trump was in control of the national guard so he obviously didn’t call them in, since he plotted it himself.
Americans have always grew up learning the idea of “Rule of Law”. If trump (or whoever is president in 2028) cancels elections and they receive orders to march into polling stations to shut them down. That would conflict their worldview of “Rule of Law”.
Its one thing for trump to do a Jan 6. He has plausible deniability (at least in the eyes of the right-wing). He didn’t directly say “Go Storm The Capital”. He implied it. So its easy for the people in the militaey to say “well he didn’t intend for that to happen”.
Getting an order to literally stop voting from taking place will probably make them have a “Are we the baddies” moment.
Of couse, some will still obey orders. But not all. We just have to hope that enough will disobey orders
The fact thats only as far back as you went is sorta my point.
Yall dont remember before that, when Trump last was president as well, the crowds getting kettlepotted and gassed out, the peaceful crowds getting dispersed just so trump could take a photo op?
the crowds getting kettlepotted and gassed out, the peaceful crowds getting dispersed just so trump could take a photo op?
Suppressing protests have happened throughout US history, it’s nothing new.
Civil Rights, Unions, Strikes, Vietnam War Protests, etc… Americans would’ve desensitized and gotten used to it that it is wasn’t gonna raise any red flags.
What does that have to do with my original statement.
I feel like Trump could just make up any half assed excuse for why the voting stations need to be shut down though and they’d buy it.
Like it Trump says it, it is rule of law to them
Okay I’m gonna go offtopic and give you anecdotes
My parents are CCP sympathizers, yet they defied the one child policy and gave birth to me, the second child in the family.
In recent events, in China, the CCP has high approval rating, yet people got tired of all the lockdowns and people protested against the “Zero Covid” policy and that probably is the reason why the CCP ended the Zero Covid policy.
My point is, these conservatives aren’t as loyal as you think they are.
Hmmm, it seems the modern way for autocracies to deal with elections is to control the information space. I don’t see election being called off, but major social media platforms boosting one side while attenuating the other goes a long way. We know Musk is all in on this and the other big players like Zuckerberg & Co seem all too happy to oblige. Tiktok is an open ended question at this point.
Hmmm, it seems the modern way for autocracies to deal with elections is to control the information space.
So there is two different types (from how I understant it):
One is that elections are just completely fraudulent
The other has legitimate elections (as in, they actually count the votes and not make up numbers) but with a strong propaganda machine that favors the government.
Russia is the first type
Turkey is the second type
I think the USA would become more of a Turkey situation than a Russia situation
Honestly democrats have been spouting off about how dangerous republicans are but when push comes to shove they serve up the same bills but somehow even worse and them drink tea with the fascists.
The dems better get real fuckin lefty real quick if they ever want to win an election again. But they wontt, they’ll just emulate dump even more like they did with Reagan.
The last time the economy crashed, the US got 40 years of progressivism. Hopefully we get something out of this fucking bullshit
Hopefully we get something out of this fucking bullshit
At the current trajectory, it be at best a renewed appreciation for how good things used to be.
/r Collapse warned us…
Duh.
Next question.
There is saying things, there is not doing things, and there is doing things.
Trump could say: “What if there was one day where there was no laws and people could just do anything, like the purge…” and… oh, he did say that during his first term. And democracy still survived. Saying things just make people loose respect for America. It is why Obama got the Nobel peace prize. Cause he stopped saying the shit that Bush was saying.
What people should be worried about is actions and inactions. It takes competency to do things. The more fascist a thing Trump wants to do, the more competent people leave and the less likely it is to be done. The true problem is it takes no level of competency to not do a thing.
So Trump’s end game is “Ask not what your country can do for you … because it can no longer do that.”
Short answer? Yes. Long answer? Absolutely.
Nah, but it’s going to be a long way back to 2015.
We’ve been set back to the 40s. Maybe by the next 40s
Make that 1840…
Define done? Even if the government gets completely dismantled in the short term, who knows what will happen in 10 years time. It will definitely take longer than that to rebuild our position of authority and influence in the global stage, if we ever achieve that, but it’s definitely doable in our lifetimes.
Yeah, good luck with that.
We don’t want your “authority and influence” any more. The US has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cannot be trusted with the power they’ve got.
to rebuild our position of authority and influence in the global stage
…it’s definitely doable in our lifetimes.Nope. It would take 20 years to rebuild the soft power, connections and goodwill the US has now lost.
But in 20 years, China will have taken over the role the US used to have on the world stage.
They aren’t even the less moral option anymore.They aren’t even the less moral option anymore.
Never were.
It’ll take decades to repair it
Although there’s a lot of knee-jerk reaction in some circles, Trump issuing EOs that are illegal and unenforceable only go as far as all the other vitriol that slides it’s way out of his mouth creases. Plenty of things he does are blocked by judges, including his demand that only him and his AG are allowed to interpret the law. It just doesn’t work like that. Although the possibility of things being escalated and allowed through a compromised supreme Court still exists, it hasn’t happened yet. I’m not giving into the mania while checks and balances still actually do exist.
Corporations dictating what people can do has been happening basically my whole life.
DOGE is another story. It’s very bad, yeah, but I’m not sure how it affects me personally in my day-to-day.
If we can’t get enough people protesting and taking action, yes. The window is closing.
The fuck is protesting going to do at this point, lets be real here. Why do you think a protest has any sway of the bulldozer that is happening in the US Legal system?
Protesting is just not gonna accomplish much, a little bit more than that is needed I think.
General strikes are the only answer.
That just means your target changes. You’re not protesting to change an unchangeable administration. Instead you’re building consensus and creating a movement that can activate if certain lines are crossed.
Such bull pucks! History shows 3% of population protests work.
Just to make it clear, though: The kind of protesting that works is not standing in the road and blocking traffic on a weekend. We’re talking indefinitely long protests where you occupy public places in a massive show of force meant to force the present regime to back down, and all the violent clashes and multi-day standoffs that come with that. This is (part of) why the civil rights movement worked but the Iraq war protests didn’t. For a recent example of this in action look up the Ukrainian Revolution or the Tunisian Revolution, or for an American example the civil rights movement. If the person you’re responding to had in mind more typical quiet single-day protests then they’re 100% correct, otherwise you’re right but it’s very much uncertain whether Americans have the guts for this kind of stunt.
Americans are the most domesticated and propagandized culture on the planet. I gave up on the ideal of mass consciousness after Occupy, because the billionaires who own this country have spent generations dumbing it down to the point that almost nobody cares. We’re not seeing mass protests of the kind you describe untill things get very bad for a lot of people.
Occupy was infiltrated by our government by people meant to destroy it from the inside. They incited people and then arrested them for it. This isn’t something that simply died off, they’ve mastered being able to co-opt an idea, push it the way they want, propagandize FUD around it, and then make it disappear.
Occupy destroyed itself by being too unfocused and ambitious. It also failed to institutionalize and burned itself out quickly.
Sure the state also did its part to sabotage it. However some of the structures like consensus and stack speakers were easily exploited by all kinds of detractors and grand standers and also wore people out by their duration.
Don’t get me wrong, it was great that it happened and there are merits to its approach.
CHAZ had a similar problem with their demands. What Occupy and CHAZ have in common is a continuous occupation of an area with people living there and building a small society. Security concerns, internal contradictions, and external pressure then lead to them falling apart after a month. With both we got a super intense short time of action with grand rhetoric but no staying power. Participants seem to be more interested in experiencing revolutionary cosplaying an anarchist utopia than achieving effective change or building a sustainable movement.
Occupy and CHAZ also have in common, that they were not repeated the next month or the next year with any success. Previous participants were frustrated or burnt out by the experience and outcomes.
The Dakota Access Pipeline protests also seem to have attracted protest tourists, who came more for the vibes than the cause.
White people are colonizing the camps…" protestor Alicia Smith added on Facebook. "They are coming in, taking food, clothing and occupying space without any desire to participate in camp maintenance and without respect of tribal protocols. “These people are treating it like it is Burning Man or The Rainbow Gathering and I even witnessed several wandering in and out of camps comparing it to those festivals.”
In this case as well, the protest lasted for one longer time only, remained mostly local, and even ethnically specific.
I don’t know that much about American protest culture and organizations. But my impression is a lack of long term organizations and repeated protests for years for the same goal. There are punctual chaotic outbreaks, sometimes widespread anger like with BLM.
What other sustained long term groups exist besides Code Pink? The name BLM was coopted and exploited financially by a foundation afaik.
I also know that climate activist movements like Fridays for Future and eXtinction Rebellion were only able to mobilize a fraction of what was going on in Europe at the time.
In contrast to Dakota Access the German group Ende Gelände occupied a different coal mine with a couple thousand people every year for a week or so from 2015 to 2024.
Do I have a wrong impression or is there a lack of political organization around protests and causes in the USA?
It depends on the will and strength of mind of the populace. The politicians are laughing all the way to their Swiss bank accounts.
As you failed to prevent fascism at the voting booth, you will have to learn how to stop it now. This is the situation the second amendment had been written for. After being abused to allow criminals and mentally retarded to get access to weapons they should never have, you can now put them to good use.
Unless there’s a coup when the Supreme Court finds against Trump and he ignores them and Republicans keep Congress from holding him accountable the only way the Court will let them.
It’s fucking toast
Screwed is always relative.
I’m hearing chat that immigrants from places like Turkey or India are going “oh yeah this is what it’s like back home”.
So it’s possible it just goes full neoliberal (i.e. no consequences or regulations for the rich) and the division of wealth grows even further.
Provided he doesn’t cause a war or some kind of other mass-death problem (chemical spills, reactor meltdown etc) it might just have a cost primarily in human suffering, as opposed to human life.
