So what if i just argued that “cocksucker” just meant that you would suck someones cock if you got you something. I.E. you’re easily bribed/manipulated. As far as i know, that’s how most people use it.
That’s literally the implication like 99% of the time. If you wanted to insult someone for being gay, you would just call them a faggot or something lmao. No need to mince words at that point.
Just learn a bit before bothering others with educating you. History matters, the way that this slur has been used historically and presently, is mostly homophobic.
Sorry for the short temper, this thread has been too long and I already explained this on another comment.
to be clear, the wiki page you explicitly linked literally say it has a historical connotation, and the primary example it lists is from checks notes 53 years ago.
I’m going to hazard a guess that the sentiment has probably changed, a little bit. Since 1972. 1972 to be clear, was 8 years after the passing of the civil rights act. It’s a bit of a different time period now.
anyway point is, i’m not convinced anybody cares about using this as a homophobic slur anymore.
Sorry for the short temper, this thread has been too long and I already explained this on another comment.
it’s whatever, that’s how the internet is lol. This thread has been more than amusing for me thus far.
And idk if I’d say it’s a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I’d say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.
find me people who suck cock that actually give a fuck about other people calling people cocksuckers and we can talk.
And idk if I’d say it’s a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I’d say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.
nobody is arguing that sucking cock is submissive??? The argument is that being a cocksucker is a submissive thing.
Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?
Exactly, pussyfucker isn’t an insult because traditionally there was nothing wrong with fucking pussy, but calling someone a cocksucker is implying they’re either gay or a woman
that’s also a fundamentally flawed argument though. Unless you’re like actively raping someone, there’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking a woman. That’s why the implication of cocksucker and motherfucker matter, obviously someone fucks everyones mother, but it’s the implication that people who are “motherfuckers” would fuck your mother just to be a problem.
So, if you were to replace ‘cocksucker’ with ‘towelhead’, slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?
Not that it actually makes a difference. This ‘power thing’ you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.
No, the discussion was not about whether different words were of equal or differing offensiveness. My discussion is about what saying ‘it’s a power thing’ actually means and how it relates to abusive behaviour.
Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?
Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.
I think you are missing the point, which is that “cocksucker” should not be used as an insult because it’s homophobic. Even if you personally identify it as a power dynamic insult, it does not change the fact that it is rooted in homophobia and that the OOP most likely used it without any thought as to its meaning and history but rather it just came to him as a viable insult (internalized homophobia)
or maybe i’m just gay and i think cocksucker is a funny insult, but no i must be homophobic, clearly that’s the only option.
This shits just not that complicated bro, it’s language, doesn’t matter where an insult came from if it’s use is broadly different in modern lexicon. Some fascinating psychoanalysis of random people on the internet.
If you are white, go call a black person a removed in a friendly way (like black people do to eachother sometimes) and see how well that goes. History matters, the origin of a word matters. Sure, maybe in a 100 years the meaning will change, but currently it is still widely recognized as a homophobic slur.
And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia. Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.
i never thought of it as a homophobic insult because plenty of straight bi etc also suck cocks, if ive ever heard cocksucker in a homophobic context ive always heard a certain slur right after it
to me, cocksucker reminds me of a prison dynamic, where its more about the power of making someone suck your cock vs them being just gay for sucking cock
but at the end of the day it dont matter we’re all just arguing about an insult homophobic or not i dont think its a good use of our time to continue to argue about its semantics
He could have also said “vaginalicker” but he didn’t, he used a well known homophobic slur. Also, if he wanted to say submissive he could have used well known submissive insults.
“Far-left” and “Democrat” do not belong in the same sentence, ignoramus. Get educated. You can actually read, presumably. Deprogram yourself. You can actually do it. If I could do it at 12, you can do it today
I think you’re getting caught up in the state being abusive and controlling to it’s citizens (as Dump is doing now) and society self-regulating itself for it’s own benefit (something that happens in all social groups) as being one and the same. Just because someone calls out another person’s bad behaviour, that does not equate to supporting a dictatorial, or similarly controlling, leadership.
What I’m trying to say, oh wise seer, is that you’re voting in accordance to your political views, except the only thing you’d love to see change is democrats becoming as much of edgelord losers as republicans.
‘now sit down’ lmao do you think you sound like a tough guy? Is that what your bullies used to say or something?
As an outsider whose overton window isn’t calibrated to US norms, it’s because the “Democrats” aren’t anything like left wing, same as “Labour” in the UK.
They’re both neoliberal centre-right parties masquerading as left wing for votes.
What you appear to be deeply emotionally connecting to “left wing” is simply authoritarianism, which is neither left or right, and exactly the playbook Trump is reading from.
You would be well served to read some political theory explainers that aren’t US based. It may open your eye to exactly how hard you’re about to be fucked over the barrel by those that are supposed to be serving you, not themselves. 💛
First of all, screw the Democrats they are not left wing. They are center right shitlibs, with a few milqtoast standouts like Bernie and AOC.
Second. You correctly look at democrats and see they are just Republicans lite, but your mistake is in thinking that going further left leads to greater power to the state to curtail speech, thought, and action. The left wants liberation. Economic and social. The power of government to celurtail speech is not liberation, it’s oppression.
What have far left (or far right, or even centrist) politics got to do with it? This is about what’s socially acceptable. Yes that feeds into politics and left/right/centre opinions, but I’m not discussing politics (nor was the person you replied to). Which ties in with my first comment that you’re combining politics with social issues erroneously.
Ultimately abuse is, abuse, is abuse, no matter how you dress it up.
One thing I agree with you on is that it isn’t necessarily always abuse, however the original post is about that group of friend’s chat, which I believe is abusive in nature from what has been shared (and hence why so many people have disowned them) and which you turned into (and are still rambling on about) some political somethingor another…
Again, this has nothing to do with politics.
You know nothing about my political beliefs so are shouting into thin air. (I’m not even from the US so can’t even ‘be’ a Dem! Oh boy.)
This has nothing to do with politics, did I say that already?!
Where do they say that they want microphones listening to people? Just because someone doesn’t like some ways of talking, doesn’t mean that they want 1984-style surveillance of everyone.
Calm yourself, man. You seem a little bit emotional there. How on earth do you presume to know my political affiliations when you don’t even know which side of the fucking planet I’m on? Get a grip.
Yeah, there’s more important stuff, like your well-being. Try to take a pause from social media; you’ll feel better. I recently deleted insta&tiktok and feel much less stressed out.
It implies that for a man, sucking cock (a legitimate sexual act for any gender) is an insult because that would make him gay. So Homophobic.
Man, I love cocksuckers I’d get me one of those
ok?
So what if i just argued that “cocksucker” just meant that you would suck someones cock if you got you something. I.E. you’re easily bribed/manipulated. As far as i know, that’s how most people use it.
That’s literally the implication like 99% of the time. If you wanted to insult someone for being gay, you would just call them a faggot or something lmao. No need to mince words at that point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_(slang)#Cocksucker
Just learn a bit before bothering others with educating you. History matters, the way that this slur has been used historically and presently, is mostly homophobic.
Sorry for the short temper, this thread has been too long and I already explained this on another comment.
to be clear, the wiki page you explicitly linked literally say it has a historical connotation, and the primary example it lists is from checks notes 53 years ago.
I’m going to hazard a guess that the sentiment has probably changed, a little bit. Since 1972. 1972 to be clear, was 8 years after the passing of the civil rights act. It’s a bit of a different time period now.
anyway point is, i’m not convinced anybody cares about using this as a homophobic slur anymore.
it’s whatever, that’s how the internet is lol. This thread has been more than amusing for me thus far.
its because hes submissive. its a power thing not a gay thing
That’s still degrading to fellators.
And idk if I’d say it’s a power thing, cocksuckers are the active participant in a blow job, and I’d say the submissive one is the one with their meat between a pair of teeth.
deleted by creator
Too lazy to write two separate responses? I’ll try!
“Don’t be a bigot” = dystopian future
Sound logic.
Oh shit, that’s the same message, guess you will have to read it twice, maybe that way it will get through to you.
Tap for spoiler
You can be better, reflect on your bigotry and grow as a person.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
find me people who suck cock that actually give a fuck about other people calling people cocksuckers and we can talk.
nobody is arguing that sucking cock is submissive??? The argument is that being a cocksucker is a submissive thing.
Or you trolling? Or are you actually serious?
its still at the end of the day giving pleasure to another. giving the key word: power thing. its the same atmosphere as bootlicker
Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?
i mean yeah, pussyfucker if you used as an insult would be quite a weird insult to throw, but it would work i suppose.
Motherfucker is also in the same vein like the other commenter suggested.
pussyfucker isnt an insult ive ever heard but motherfucker is
cocksucker reminds me of the prison mentality of making someone your bitch so thats where im getting the power play from
Exactly, pussyfucker isn’t an insult because traditionally there was nothing wrong with fucking pussy, but calling someone a cocksucker is implying they’re either gay or a woman
why arent you explaining motherfucker then?
and funny how your mind goes straight to homophobia or misogyny, when there are other interpretations for cocksucker
oedipal
oh you’re trolling, good day
that’s also a fundamentally flawed argument though. Unless you’re like actively raping someone, there’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking a woman. That’s why the implication of cocksucker and motherfucker matter, obviously someone fucks everyones mother, but it’s the implication that people who are “motherfuckers” would fuck your mother just to be a problem.
Yet it isn’t an insult for some reason, I wonder why?
So, if you were to replace ‘cocksucker’ with ‘towelhead’, slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?
Not that it actually makes a difference. This ‘power thing’ you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.
im sorry are we equating cocksucker, and the n word to be on the same level of offensive slur?
No, the discussion was not about whether different words were of equal or differing offensiveness. My discussion is about what saying ‘it’s a power thing’ actually means and how it relates to abusive behaviour.
i suppose that’s fair. But it’s also an insult. They’re not meant to be nice.
Exactly! Which was my original point that this ‘power thing’ is about using/tied to abusive/instluting behaviour rather than something separate.
Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?
Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.
im comparing an insult to bootlicking. jesus christ you people really feel like arguing over absolutely nothing
I think you are missing the point, which is that “cocksucker” should not be used as an insult because it’s homophobic. Even if you personally identify it as a power dynamic insult, it does not change the fact that it is rooted in homophobia and that the OOP most likely used it without any thought as to its meaning and history but rather it just came to him as a viable insult (internalized homophobia)
or maybe i’m just gay and i think cocksucker is a funny insult, but no i must be homophobic, clearly that’s the only option.
This shits just not that complicated bro, it’s language, doesn’t matter where an insult came from if it’s use is broadly different in modern lexicon. Some fascinating psychoanalysis of random people on the internet.
If you are white, go call a black person a removed in a friendly way (like black people do to eachother sometimes) and see how well that goes. History matters, the origin of a word matters. Sure, maybe in a 100 years the meaning will change, but currently it is still widely recognized as a homophobic slur.
And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia. Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.
i never thought of it as a homophobic insult because plenty of straight bi etc also suck cocks, if ive ever heard cocksucker in a homophobic context ive always heard a certain slur right after it
to me, cocksucker reminds me of a prison dynamic, where its more about the power of making someone suck your cock vs them being just gay for sucking cock
but at the end of the day it dont matter we’re all just arguing about an insult homophobic or not i dont think its a good use of our time to continue to argue about its semantics
If you think going down on someone is only a submissive act you haven’t gone down on someone long enough, or teased them enough.
thats not what i think im explaining the insult
He could have also said “vaginalicker” but he didn’t, he used a well known homophobic slur. Also, if he wanted to say submissive he could have used well known submissive insults.
literally nobody says vaginalicker though? that’s just not the commonly understood variant of “cocksucker”
Dam I thought it was just a thing boring white ppl say. Imma used that retort.
Or you’re Swearingen from Deadwood. /s
I think I know where he got his name now
deleted by creator
“Don’t be a bigot” = dystopian future
Sound logic
deleted by creator
Mate whenever you need to copy and paste fragments of your comments into other comments you look like a proper tool
“Far-left” and “Democrat” do not belong in the same sentence, ignoramus. Get educated. You can actually read, presumably. Deprogram yourself. You can actually do it. If I could do it at 12, you can do it today
deleted by creator
I think you’re getting caught up in the state being abusive and controlling to it’s citizens (as Dump is doing now) and society self-regulating itself for it’s own benefit (something that happens in all social groups) as being one and the same. Just because someone calls out another person’s bad behaviour, that does not equate to supporting a dictatorial, or similarly controlling, leadership.
deleted by creator
Lmao my man here thinks that the American democratic party is leftist, that’s hilarious.
deleted by creator
What I’m trying to say, oh wise seer, is that you’re voting in accordance to your political views, except the only thing you’d love to see change is democrats becoming as much of edgelord losers as republicans.
‘now sit down’ lmao do you think you sound like a tough guy? Is that what your bullies used to say or something?
Oh hey there, I don’t have skin in this part of the comments - just want to say I’m stealing “Is that what your bullies used to say.” Savage as hell.
I think you need to work on expanding your political theory into more dimensions
deleted by creator
As an outsider whose overton window isn’t calibrated to US norms, it’s because the “Democrats” aren’t anything like left wing, same as “Labour” in the UK.
They’re both neoliberal centre-right parties masquerading as left wing for votes.
What you appear to be deeply emotionally connecting to “left wing” is simply authoritarianism, which is neither left or right, and exactly the playbook Trump is reading from.
You would be well served to read some political theory explainers that aren’t US based. It may open your eye to exactly how hard you’re about to be fucked over the barrel by those that are supposed to be serving you, not themselves. 💛
Theory? It’s just vibes-based politics with these people. They don’t actually think lol.
Your comment is good btw; I’m not attacking you
First of all, screw the Democrats they are not left wing. They are center right shitlibs, with a few milqtoast standouts like Bernie and AOC.
Second. You correctly look at democrats and see they are just Republicans lite, but your mistake is in thinking that going further left leads to greater power to the state to curtail speech, thought, and action. The left wants liberation. Economic and social. The power of government to celurtail speech is not liberation, it’s oppression.
What have far left (or far right, or even centrist) politics got to do with it? This is about what’s socially acceptable. Yes that feeds into politics and left/right/centre opinions, but I’m not discussing politics (nor was the person you replied to). Which ties in with my first comment that you’re combining politics with social issues erroneously.
Ultimately abuse is, abuse, is abuse, no matter how you dress it up.
deleted by creator
One thing I agree with you on is that it isn’t necessarily always abuse, however the original post is about that group of friend’s chat, which I believe is abusive in nature from what has been shared (and hence why so many people have disowned them) and which you turned into (and are still rambling on about) some political somethingor another…
Again, this has nothing to do with politics.
You know nothing about my political beliefs so are shouting into thin air. (I’m not even from the US so can’t even ‘be’ a Dem! Oh boy.)
This has nothing to do with politics, did I say that already?!
🥱
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Which one?
Where do they say that they want microphones listening to people? Just because someone doesn’t like some ways of talking, doesn’t mean that they want 1984-style surveillance of everyone.
deleted by creator
Calm yourself, man. You seem a little bit emotional there. How on earth do you presume to know my political affiliations when you don’t even know which side of the fucking planet I’m on? Get a grip.
Are u OK dude? Take a ride, go to a park or something, breath air. Your mental health is more important than whatever your podcaster tells you.
deleted by creator
Yeah, there’s more important stuff, like your well-being. Try to take a pause from social media; you’ll feel better. I recently deleted insta&tiktok and feel much less stressed out.
imo the pejorative connotation of that word, and homophobia generally, is ultimately rooted in misogyny