• DarkFuture@lemmy.worldEnglish
    34·
    3 days ago

    It’s truly terrifying. We all grew up asking “how did Germans let it happen” and now we know exactly how it happened.

  • Ferrous@lemmy.mlEnglish
    239·
    2 days ago

    The liberal framework cannot explain why millions of people support Trump because it refuses to acknowledge that capitalism itself generates such movements.

    This is why we see liberals using increasingly mystical language (cult). Liberals reduce the Trump phenomenon to irrational devotion to a demagogue, framing it as a psychological or cultural pathology rather than a political response to material conditions. This obscures the fact that Trump’s base is not a brainwashed sect but a coalition of reactionary class forces—primarily the petty bourgeoisie, sections of the labor aristocracy, and segments of the bourgeoisie itself—whose interests align with right-wing populism in the face of capitalist crisis.

    By calling it a “cult,” liberals dismiss the genuine (if misguided) grievances of workers who have been destroyed by neoliberalism.

    • billwashere@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      2 days ago

      I don’t disagree that this kind of language is unhelpful. The quickest way to turn someone off is to attack them. However, this isn’t a response to conditions. Because if it were the people voting for Trump should realize he is not now nor ever going to help them economically. Just today he said he doesn’t care if car prices go up. He doesn’t buy cars. He has no clue what ordinary financial hardships people face. Hell he thought you had to show ID to buy groceries. What Trumps popularity is is a tribal reaction. Trump has turned it into an us vs. them and the right is eating it up. They want to believe the ills they feel are someone else’s fault. Whether it’s trans, brown, or black people. It’s not a white Cristian’s fault. When in reality it really is someone else’s fault, just not the someone else they are being to lied to about. As soon as the majority of people realize this is all about class, rich vs. poor (well at least not rich), greedy billionaires vs every one else, that’s when the shit is going to hit the fan. Of course since the rich own all of the media, they may never realize.

      • Levitator2478@lemmy.caEnglish
        3·
        2 days ago

        I kind of agree with both you and the person you’re responding to.

        Trump has quite a lot of supporters and they don’t all support him for the same reasons.

        There definitely are hardline, cultish supporters who essentially worship Trump and will accept any sort of behaviour from him. And he definitely has supporters who are motivated more by hate than any personal need.

        But on the other hand, I think that many Trump voters genuinely believe that he’s the best option to advance their own interests.

        Many of Trump’s voters are people who are desperately poor and in dire need. They are - often through no fault of their own - un or underemployed (and thus in poverty), undernourished, and underserviced in many other ways (healthcare, education, etc.). It’s a huge problem in rural areas, largely ignored by the Democrats. And - while they’re undereducated - they aren’t necessarily stupid. They know they’re getting fucked over. And they know the government isn’t doing much of anything to help them. Both of these things are true, not lies told by Trump. They are very angry, and justifiably so.

        And so along comes Trump and he offers them simple - and at first glance intuitively reasonable - solutions to their problems.

        Take for example tariffs to make out-of-country goods more expensive to incentivize creating goods in the US. This solution makes intuitive sense. If companies are moving manufacturing out of the country because it’s cheaper, why not make it more expensive to import goods? It probably will even increase certain types of jobs. In truth, there are a couple problems with this. For one thing, manufacturing job losses aren’t exclusively due to outsourcing - automation is a bigger factor. For another, the economy is complicated and the tariffs will also have negative effects that will likely far outweigh any positive ones. But the average Trump supporter isn’t equipped to understand that, and frankly neither is the average non-Trump supporter (I’m just repeating what I’ve heard from sources I trust, but really I don’t know shit). Arguably even the average economist is just making an educated guess. Again, the economy is complicated.

        Even for the more hateful aspects of his message, when people are angry and desperate (as many Trump supporters very justifiably are) they’re more inclined to seek out destructive change (like tearing down the government) and look for scapegoats (so racist, anti-LGBT etc. messages become more appealing). That undertone of hate was always there, it wasn’t caused by capitalism, but it’s definitely exacerbated by anger and need. Happy people don’t have as much need for scapegoats.

      • Ferrous@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1·
        2 days ago

        this isn’t a response to conditions. Because if it were the people voting for Trump should realize he is not now nor ever going to help them economically.

        I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Just because a response to changing conditions is irrational doesn’t mean it is not a response to changing conditions. It seems like you’re arguing that Trump supporters give their support to Trump because they think he will ruin the economy, but that’s obviously not the case. One of the Trump camp’s main arguments is his economic aptitude (whether or not you believe that is complete bullshit). The undeniable reality is that Trump supporters truly believe he is going to save the economy even if you (perhaps rightly) think tariffs are going to cause massive damage.

      • ifeelsick@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        i second this idea. i think his thoughts at best are optimistic in believing that is a reaction to conditions. As a person of color i can say with absolute confidence that this level of hate and lack of empathy is more than just a reaction to financial disparity. this is brain washing at its finest, a long term game plan to break down what it means to be a person. this is manipulation of generational hatred and scapegoating different cultures to take advantage of the sabotaged educational system. its hard to argue that this is a working class issue when literal factual information is disputed by these people. additionally i find it hard to argue that it isnt a cult when you say the bourgeoisie’s interest are in line with working class conservatives, because you could also say they line up with the KKK and last time i checked it is in fact a cult.

    • nyamlae@lemmy.world
      3·
      2 days ago

      They are strange, but in an ordered way. They are using commas when a complex noun phrase ending in a noun of the same number is the subject of a clause. (See what I did there?) I wish they used a different punctuation mark, to be honest, but I get how it reduces the number of possible readings that the mind has to juggle.

  • lorty@lemmy.ml
    123·
    2 days ago

    Hilarious that this person is posting this on THREADS, of all things.

  • MehBlah@lemmy.worldEnglish
    16·
    2 days ago

    Not all of us. Just over thirty percent. Of course there is a another thirty percent who will take no action at all until it impacts their daily lives. They will not even vote. They didn’t this last time either.

  • mindaika@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    27·
    2 days ago

    Yeah, those people are terrible. I’m glad us people aren’t like that. Those people are scum. They’re not like us. We’re good people, which I know because we believe in the correct things and have the right opinions

  • frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml
    711·
    3 days ago

    I don’t know if I’d call putting a comma between subject and predicate a ‘cult’. It’s certainly annoying, but not a cult.

      • SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one
        14·
        2 days ago

        I’m never looking at mine ever again. And we’re in freaking Australia. I hate how far the rot spreads, but, sometimes it’s just better to cut loose and move on.

        • kingofras@lemmy.world
          7·
          2 days ago

          Let me get downvoted for this.

          Time heals.

          Time can heal all wounds.

          Forgiveness is one of the most powerful acts we can perform human to human.

          Yes, it shows all the hate in all around us, however. Don’t underestimate the mountains of psychological research and manipulation that went into all these million dollar propaganda enterprises like Fox News, Cambridge Analytica, the Murdochs, etc.

          They are victims of mass manipulation. It is far better to look at them as if they are severe drug addicts than to write them off completely.

          Hope this helps someone. It helped me.

            • kingofras@lemmy.world
              1·
              2 days ago

              First, nice day one comment. Welcome to Lemmy.

              Second, by not distinguishing between Nazis and Nazi supporters (ie victims of propaganda) you would have had to cull over half of the German population in 1944.

              Third, never give an actual Nazi the near painless exit from Earth by just shooting them. They at least deserve a ceremonial public guillotine party.

          • subtleorbit@lemmy.world
            5·
            2 days ago

            I don’t disagree with you, but there are wounds that time alone cannot heal. Same goes for drug addicts.

            They can make amends, but I won’t forget.

          • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
            2·
            2 days ago

            Forgivness comes after acknowledging your wrongs, taking responsibility, apologizing, and making amends. You don’t get to keep being a POS while everyone ignores it and welcomes you into the fold.