I’ve got to confess, I have for years been guilty if not reading the documentation. I simply go with the flow and hope it works…
But not anymore! And why the change you may ask? We’ll, I’m reading the f…ing documentation on Rocky linux and I’m just blown away from the amount of great information!
If you’ve been guilty of not reading the documentation, let me me know what changed it for you
If you’re not reading the documentation, this is your time to confess!
I find that the docs usually consist of a quick start guide covering some ultra tight scenario that doesn’t apply to most people, and reference material that’s just some total brain dump of every possible command without any kind of context.
I have found the docs the best place to start with anything, but have found that some don’t know how to write good documentation.
Also man pages and the tools own help -? Or -h
If you run something that has pants docs, you could always see if there is a way to help update it
Nothing teaches you what the documentation says like plowing ahead without reading it, fucking something up badly, having to crawl back to the documentation hat in hand and actually read it.
Lol reading the source has trained me to try reading the documentation.
If it’s good, it’ll save hours or crawling through code.
If documentation is written in a readable and confluent way, RTFM isn’t such a big deal. The issue comes with overly draconian and non-confluent documentation.
Looking at you, Nix documentation
Day 564: I have become lost in the forums amidst flake debate threads. Do not search for me, it is already too late.
You got a nice guttural laugh outta me for that one.
There is a way with chmod in bash to change files and folders with files getting no execute bit and folder do (rwX instead of rwx). It’s in the man pages but good luck finding it via Google. Stackoverflow just suggests using find over and over again.
That did it for me.
Confluent?
Flowing/coming together.
I think what they are referring to are docs where pieces are explained individually, but not in a consistent or cohesive way, obfuscating use.
You’re absolutely right
I thought you wrote confluence and wanted to grab my pitchfork.
rivers
Petrichor
In my experience, all the Linux documentation I have read has been written for peers of Linux developers, who are familiar with technical terminology and several concepts and steps are left out and implied rather than explained.
It’s a way for developers to ensure that Linux never receives adoption past other developers. Literary equivalent of pulling the ladder up.
I mean, it’s technical documentation. There’s a limit to how exciting it can be. lol.
who are familiar with technical terminology and several concepts and steps are left out and implied rather than explained.
Said it before and I’ll say it again: had to manually install some software to make Steam tinker launch work, and the instructions for installing it were to download and prepare the GitHub folder, then “do the usual and move the completed file to …”
Ive used git in the past and it still took me multiple minutes to figure out they meant the “make && build” command. Why was that so hard to fucking write??
Highly specialized people live in bubbles and assume that everyone else lives in their same bubble and so if someone else doesn’t understand, they aren’t worth communicating with.
XKCD 2501, basically.
Thank you for this. It’s beautiful.
well I’d read the documentation if websearch wasn’t so shoddy that I could find it in the first place /s
Oh it happens to the best of us. I was working on a simple cron the other day with the cron string that would insert the cron into my cron config something like ‘echo’ and the normal string you’d recognize, and ended with a ‘-’. I wasn’t paying attention and issued the command which did insert itself into the cron config, but in a manner in which I didn’t want. It replaced the whole cron file with that one string. #$@^$$ Luckily I have a cron to back up the crontabs.
I mostly try to read the docs, but sadly good documentation is pretty rare.
It’s weird that Linux certification requires rote-memorization of commands. The only people who make any effort to memorize commands are newbies and people studding for exams. You will always have access to bash history, man, and --help, even from an offline machine.
Every command I’ve memorized is simply the natural process of repetition. Is that your experience?
Mine too. Been tinkering with Linux since I was a lad, sudo apt get / sudo apt update is ingrained into my brain.
Now, after running openSUSE Tumbleweed, sudo zypper ref / sudo zypper dup
Still a Linux noob, but I have never loved an operating system more than I have openSUSE. :)
Yes. But also, despite having done it literally thousands of times, I still can’t tell you which way round to put the target and the link name for a softlink on the first go.
My first guess is always
ln -s $NAME $TARGET
No amount of repetition will fix this.
🤣 same
I feel seen
My trick to remember:
You can link to a target without giving a name to the link. ln will use the basename of the target file then. You can’t create a link without a target, so target has to go first since it’s not optional. Did it for me
I used to have that problem with ln until I realized it’s essentially the same ordering as cp: source, then destination. The source being the existing file that you’re linking to, and the destination being the link that you’re creating
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People are worried about losing skills to AI while all the skills have already been lost to Google and stack exchange 😅
Are you trying to say I’m not a newbie with over 20 years of experience?
I prefer to raw dog it first, break it, then tuck me dick and read the paper like the real alpha male
I’m kind of that way. I will browse documentation, get a good idea as to what has to happen, then I raw dog it. Then, after many failed attempts, I go read the documentation. I agree with twinnie@feddit.uk tho, a ton of documentation either assumes you are a certified, dyed in the wool, sysadmin veteran with a wall of certs, or it’s just too sparse for me to put together.
I have a theory: information is best remembered if it is acquired solving a problem.
Play with the new tech, hit a roadblock, read and learn. That way you are motivated, know why you are reading the stuff and also only learn the stuff that isn’t intuitive.
Depending on experience many things are just like something you already know and easy to learn/remember, others are not. Don’t waste your time learning the first.
On the other hand, put me into a room with a teacher, who tries to teache me specifics about a tech I don’t care about and I will promise you, I will learn nothing. Even worse, I will start to hate that tech.
On the other hand, put me into a room with a teacher, who tries to teache me specifics about a tech I don’t care about and I will promise you, I will learn nothing. Even worse, I will start to hate that tech.
Interesting. I read a lot. Probably tb’s of data per day. I don’t watch tv not even news or weather. It’s not a religious thing and it doesn’t make me holier than thou. I just find that reading is best for me. However, if you hand me a traditional book, I will never crack the binding. Put that same book in a digital format that I can read from my devices, and I’ll read it cover to cover and probably storage the document to read later.
We’re all kind of quirky and we all have our own optimum way to learn. Mine is usually just screwing shit up until I get it.
Same for me, no TV for the last 15 years. All I consume is online and about topics I like.
TBs of data per day? You know how much text fits into 1tb? o.O
Anyway, we seem to enjoy a pretty similar type of entertainment. For me, it’s all about liking what I do. I can’t stand doing things I dislike at all.
Lemme ask you about ADHD?! I’m pretty sure I have it but don’t care. I am who I am. How about you?
Lemme ask you about ADHD?! I’m pretty sure I have it but don’t care. I am who I am. How about you?
I’ve long been told that I have the tenants of ADHD. When I was a young lad, ADHD was not something that doctors looked for. Then as time progressed and we learned a lot more about ADHD, and two lines of thinking emerged. Either ADHD is a real illness, or it was bunk science. Nowadays, we know a ton more about these kinds of mental maladies and I truly feel that more people than what we realize are on the spectrum.
I have had a TBI which gifted me a seizure condition as well as other mental/neuro maladies. I’m sure a lot of my issues stem from the TBI as well. It has definitely made drastic changes in how my brain works and sometimes the most simplest of tasks are hard for me to comprehend. However, after falling from 2 stories onto a concrete pad and laying there in a pool of blood for an unknown amount of time before someone found me, I feel quite fortunate to be alive.
Depends on what I am doing. Walky Talky? Toaster? Dish washer? … Who needs a manual for that?
FID detector? I need to know several things before turning it on. New Mainboard? Why is the WoL setting behind wake on PCIe?
Well, I’ve had a job where most coms were through a walky talky and somehow people didn’t understand they had to think - push - talk 😅
Funny how that’s the case for most people 🤣
RTFM. …
… The last thing you try.I had a boring manufacturing job with long gaps between batches of work, so I read every help file in Windows NT4.1. While reading them, I found a way around our IT limitations on which apps we could run, and learned how to write scripts. So I wrote a password protected launcher tool using a macro feature in a terminal emulator I had access to on my workstation, and then started reading the man pages in Unix sys-V.
I worked next to a technical writer for Unix; the Unix. One of the things we were known for, actually, was the amazing documentation. This guy and both teams of writers (that many) maintained the doc as their entire job. It was written well, it was spell-checked, it was accurate, it was accessible. If you installed the machine, it was on http://localhost/doc or so.
Almost all tech writers were turfed after Y2K. They cost money and didn’t earn directly.
If you notice a lack of good docco like you notice a lack of mentoring in code dev (I see you, Systemd), then we know how we got to this stage.
If you become CEO, just keep that in mind.
As a technical writer, I always get a bit giddy when someone shows appreciation for good docs haha Thanks for sharing!
I do read the docs. Even before trying software, to judge if ot will fulfill my requirements… Rocky Linux is one such example. Great docs, I’d love to try their distro one day :)