My current phone is 7 years old, does not support recent android versions, and battery life is becoming atrocious. This feels like right time to change my phone.
Currently, I know of & am considering 3 options:
- Google Pixel
- iPhone
- Samsung Galaxy
I heard that Pixel is the best choice for privacy, despite it being Google^TM. Should I go with it, and install Graphene OS or similar options? The very fact that the name “Google” is attached makes me nervous. Also, I don’t think I can trust android, so I would have to install Graphene OS or the like. In the case, app support would be lacking, though.
I am considering iPhone as well, since it has “reputation” of being secure. Of course, Apple can access my data, but that might be a good enough compromise? Honestly, I don’t know. It’s the best supported option as well - lots of apps support iPhone.
Galaxy is just the one that I am the most familiar with (my current one is Galaxy S8). I don’t trust it, though. Do they even make good hardware nowadays?
EDIT: Turns out, Pixel phones are poorly supported by local telecomm companies. It is relatively cheap though. Still worth it?
EDIT2: I heard that data & message is fine, but the call quality is impacted by lack of VoLTE compatibility.
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Privacy finished with the first Smartphone
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best choice for privacy […] “reputation” of being secure
Disentangling privacy and security, and potentially other priorities, e.g. secrecy, anonymity, etc might be important before making suggestion.
Another way to help deciding what is the best choice for you, not necessarily anybody else, is what is your threat model?
An analogy I thought recently is “Are you putting a very tough lock on your door but leaving the windows opened?” or “Are you locking your car but walking outside naked?”. The point here is not to imply that people do obvious mistakes but rather that, truly there are people who go to parades naked AND lock their cars. The concerns can be orthogonal and thus must be considered individually. For that I believe thinking about “who the enemy is” as a way to discover your threat model is interesting, namely :
Are you worried by :
- government getting your private data without your consent?
- government doing so automatically and cheaply through intermediaries e.g. platforms?
- government doing so via extremely costly individual security attacks e.g. 0-days, with a “legit” hacker manually doing it?
- small private companies?
- platforms?
- your actual neighbor?
The answer to those questions will then provide you a more limited set of options. Basically I would argue only the 3rd option ties tightly with security but that’s up to a certain extent and companies like Pegasus shows that it can also be done at scale, for profit. Still, AFAICT it wasn’t done for a random person BUT that was few years ago.
Anyway one you go through options, e.g. iPhone vs Android vs deGoogled Android vs Linux phone vs dumb phone you will see your usage itself will have to change. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it is not something most people will think about initially.
I suggest then to… try. I know it’s not the answer you want but what you are asking for, I believe, is genuine change. It is about the technology, yes, but it also is about your habits. Consequently it is a process with some success, failures, cascading changes and thus IMHO must be iterated on.
It is worth it though.
Just to let you know, GrapheneOS uses AOSP (the base Android system) and sandboxed Google Play Services, making it compatible with 90% of all Android applications. From what I’ve heard (don’t take my word for it), the apps that have the least compatibility / more breakage are banking ones.
It does not “use” AOSP, it’s built on AOSP, like every Android device.
AOSP is like the foundation of any Android OS.
Yes, that was a poor choice of words on my part; I do apologize about that.
The banking app thing is unfortunate, but then I kinda realized that I don’t really need them anyway. I have all the features I need in browser, and text notifications set up for when I spend money.
The wallet not working REALLY sucks, but if I look on the bright side that’s one less thing Google knows about me and my spending.
Yeah, the problem is with the one banking app I frequent.
While this tends to be true, the vast majority of the banking app incompatibilities are overcome with a simple app-specific toggle.
Which toggle is that and does it work with cash app?
Exploit Protection Compatibility Mode. It’s a setting that relaxes this particular security enhancement for a given app.
It’s worth knowing that NFC payments do not work with Graphene currently.
Oh shit, this is working.
Oh I didn’t know NFC payments were not working. No workaround?
Not currently. It will require Google to’allow’ tap-to-pay on Graphene. Other NFC functions work fine.
For my use, it’s not a big deal. Tapping my card is easy enough
Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately this is a major feature for me. I just don’t carry cards anymore
That’s fair. Privacy and security generally come at some cost of convenience. Everyone has their own personal balance.
The other answers are correct but I have not gotten cashapp to work. I use an old phone connected to my current phone via hotspot on the rare occasion I need cashapp.
I still recommend GrapheneOS regardless, almost everything else works with nothing more than minor tweaks. If you want something that “just works”, you’ll run into some hangups. Privacy unfortunately has a cost.
Dude the exploit protection compatibility mode worked. I’m logged in
Great! 👍
Yeah I’ve been using graphene for about a year without many issues, cash app is the only one I still can’t get working.
I am considering iPhone as well, since it has “reputation” of being secure.
Which doesn’t mean private.
Pixel+Graphene is a common suggestion.
For real privacy you can’t beat these.
pigeon with paper that lights itself on fire when human skin touches it
Out of the options you mentioned, Pixel with a custom rom (GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc.) is probably the best bet. Seconded by any Samsung that could run a custom rom, though I agree with others here that the hardware is better on the Pixels. Plus they have extra security hardware features that will be better. Of course, if things are weird with your telecom, that might effect things (trust me, been there with an Ubuntu Touch phone before.)
Another option you could look at depending on where you are is Murena’s phones. They have a bunch of options pre-flashed with their de-Googled rom /e/ os. Not my favorite rom, but still not bad! And of course those can be flashed with another rom if you want as well!
I’ve been rocking a Pixel 8 pro with Graphene OS for a year and change and it was a great experience after being an iPhone user for 8 years aproximately.
The install process is great, automatic and foolproof, you just need the phone, usb cable (probably came with your phone) and a computer with a Chromium-based browser.
App support hasn’t been a problem for me, you can reach for Aurora Store (anonymous Play Store client) if you really need something from there. Otherwise you have F-droid and the usual suspects and also Accrescent, which Graphene offers through its own app store, but barely has anything as of today.
I setup Shelter to have some apps more isolated and being able to just not see them if I want, namely some Microsoft apps I need for work and some that depend o Google’s services. Shelter is recommended by privacyguides.org, so you should be fine using it.
I think Pixel/Graphene is probably your best option for security if you need it. Privacy I guess you can achieve many other ways.
Any inconveniences you’ve noticed with Graphene? For example I’ve heard tap to pay functionality doesn’t work.
I guess there are some tradeoffs, for sure. I’ve encountered a couple things:
- Bad location functionality. The phone is most likely to blame for this, but I can’t say with certainty. GOS uses a custom proxy server for location related operations, so maybe that’s the reason, or maybe I fiddled too much with settings and messed something up.
- Very ocasional crashes due to exploit protection. This almost never happens, but can be annoying. Some app may have a bug that would be overlooked by another OS or try to access some feature that is considered exploitable and the system will kill it, letting you know why with a notification. You can fine-tune these protections at the system or app level to make it work for you though (at your own risk).
- If “tap to pay” refers to NFC payments through some app like Google Pay, I think they do work. You just have to enable NFC (you can even enable it only if the device is unlocked, which is cool), and configure contactless payments with your payment app. I don’t use this feature though, so I’m not speaking from personal experience.
I think that’s it, really. I found the actual user experience to be quite breezy.
- The location functionality has significantly improved recently since it no longer relies solely on GPS, but yeah, it could still be improved.
- Generally, I’ve found the apps that tend to have problems with exploit protection are games, VPNs, and banking apps (which is probably the sort of app you’d most want exploit protection on…). I’m not sure if I’ve ever had an actual problem with other apps honestly.
- While NFC works, Google Pay does not. Google needs to basically certify the OS for it to work, and they refuse to do so (monopoly gonna monopoly). Basically, this means if you’re in the US or some other country where Google Pay is pretty much the only payment option on Android, NFC payments don’t work. Some places in Europe at least have NFC payments available through banking apps though, so if you happen to reside in one of those countries and your bank has one of those apps with payment support, you should be fine.
Tanks for your clarification!
Sunbeam f1
What apps do you need? Do you know that app support is lacking on GOS or just think it? I would go with Pixel8a and GOS.
Using a Pixel 6 with Graphene here with google services in their sandbox. It’s pretty neat, especially with apps like Firefox+uBlock and GrayJay, which let me also block 99% of ads, which was very important to me. I have not had trouble with any banking apps either.
Also, I don’t think I can trust android,
Yes. Google’s framework service seems to be spyware.
so I would have to install Graphene OS or the like.
GrapheneOS does seem to be the best way to address the privacy concerns with Android. There’s also LineageOS and others.
In the case, app support would be lacking, though.
Uh…Android is the single most popular operating system in the history of operating systems. The app support is quite good.
If you mean because many apps require Google Farmwork Services, and GrapheneOS replaces it - I find that to be a largely solved problem. The GrapheneOS neutered rebuild of Google Framework Services now fools most apps into working.
It’s been years since I encountered an app that actually couldn’t run on GrapheneOS, unless the app was aggressively trying to spy on me.
The remaining issue tends to be bank and credit union apps, which aggressively spy on their users “for security”. I work around this by using my credit union’s mobile website, instead. It has all of the same features without the spying, anyway.
Just for clarity, Graphene doesn’t provide a “neutered” version of play services - the version of play services which runs is the same code as provided by Google, with the only difference being that it runs in a sandbox which only grants it the same level of permission as normal apps (which you can choose to grant or not) rather than running as effectively root on your device like it does on most android phones.
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In EU, I would recommend a xiaomi. Cheap, bootloader unlockable (which breaks security a little since you cant relock), but they are a gamble in terms of reliability.
