I saw the Tesla Robotaxi:
- Drive into oncoming traffic, getting honked at in the process.
- Signal a turn and then go straight at a stop sign with turn signal on.
- Park in a fire lane to drop off the passenger.
And that was in a single 22 minute ride. Not great performance at all.
Cruise cars were already doing this and performed far better. GM is fucking braindead and pulled the plug like usual though.
Leave it to GM to find a way to thread the needle and seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
One of those American robot cars
I understood that reference
Remember guys, Tesla wants to have a living person sitting behind the wheel for “safety.” Don’t YOU want to get paid minimum wage to sit in a car all day, paying attention but doing nothing unless it’s about to crash, at which point you’ll be made the scapegoat for not preventing the crash?
Welcome to the future, you’re gonna hate it here.
I mean, compared to getting minimum wage flipping burgers in a hot kitchen, or picking vegetables in the sun, or working the register in a store in a bad neighborhood, or even restocking stuff at Walmart… yes, I would sit all day in an air conditioned car doing nothing but “paying attention”.
You seem to have missed the point. Whether or not you think that would be an easy job, the whole reason you’d be there is to be the one that takes all the blame when the autopilot kills someone. It will be your name, your face, every single record of your past mistakes getting blasted on the news and in court because Elon’s shitty vanity project finally killed a real child instead of a test dummy. You’ll be the one having to explain to a grieving family just how hard it is to actually pay complete attention every moment of every day, when all you’ve had to do before is just sit there.
How about you pay attention and PREVENT the autopilot from killing someone? Like it’s your job to do?
Expecting people to be able to behave like machines is generally the attitude that leads to crash investigations.
Behave like machines? Wtf are you on about? It’s paying attention and preventing accidents. Like a train conductor does. Or a lifeguard. Or a security guard. I get the tesla hate, but this is ridiculous.
Lifeguards have very short periods of diligence before they take mandatory breaks in an extremely controlled environment. Train conductors operate on grade separated infrastructure. Security Guards do not have to take split second action or die.
Putting a warm body in a mind-numbing situation and requiring split second response to a life or death situation at a random time is a recipe for failure.
Well, put the drivers on a similar mandatory break schedule. Done.
This is sarcasm, right?
The unfortunate thing about people is we acclimatise quickly to the demands of our situation. If everything seems OK, the car seems to be driving itself, we start to pay less attention. Fighting that impulse is extremely hard.
A good example is ADHD. I have severe ADHD so I take meds to manage it. If I am driving an automatic car on cruise control I find it very difficult to maintain long term high intensity concentration. The solution for me is to drive a manual. The constant involvement of maintaining speed, revs, gear ratio, and so on mean I can pay attention much easier. Add to that thinking about hypermiling and defensive driving and I have become a very safe driver, putting about 25-30 thousand kms on my car each year for over a decade without so much as a fender bender. In an automatic I was always tense, forcing focus on the road, and honestly it hurt my neck and shoulders because of the tension. In my zippy little manual I have no trouble driving at all.
So imagine that but up to an even higher level. Someone is supervising a car which handles most situations well enough to make you feel like a passenger. They will switch off and stop paying attention eventually. At that point it is on them, not the car itself being unfit. I want self driving to be a reality but right now it is not. We can do all sorts of driver assist stuff but not full self driving.
A good example is ADHD. I have severe ADHD so I take meds to manage it. If I am driving an automatic car on cruise control I find it very difficult to maintain long term high intensity concentration. The solution for me is to drive a manual. The constant involvement of maintaining speed, revs, gear ratio, and so on mean I can pay attention much easier. Add to that thinking about hypermiling and defensive driving and I have become a very safe driver, putting about 25-30 thousand kms on my car each year for over a decade without so much as a fender bender. In an automatic I was always tense, forcing focus on the road, and honestly it hurt my neck and shoulders because of the tension. In my zippy little manual I have no trouble driving at all.
Are you me? I love weaving through traffic as fast as I can… in a video game (like Motor Town behind the wheel). In real life I drive very safe and it is boring af for my ADHD so I do things like try to hit the apex of turns just perfect as if I was driving at the limit but I am in reality driving at a normal speed.
Part of living with severe ADHD is you don’t get breaks from having to play these games to survive everyday life, as you say it is a stressful reality in part because of this. You brought up a great point too that both of us know, when our focus is on something and activated we can perform at a high level, but accidents don’t wait for our focus, they just happen, and this is why we are always beating ourselves up.
We can look at self driving car tech and intuit a lot about the current follies of it because we know what focus is better than anyone else, especially successful tech company execs.
Yeah, it is absolutely insane to think that as a person with a literal disability in attentional regulation I have had fewer collisions than most people who are not disabled. It seems like if it is too easy people stop trying and don’t take it seriously, so they text or change the music or reach over the back. I know I can’t do that without risking a major issue and I actively have to maintain focus, so I simply do not ever “let it slide” or “just this once”. Rules can save lives if followed, but do nothing if ignored.
I’m glad other people understand the struggles required for daily life in this respect
Sounds like the indian guy driving it with a joystick was a bit hungover. You’d think they’d screen that thing at the entrance of the cubicle farm where all these AI folk drive these from. AI is just “anonymous indians” for elmo’s grifting kind.
A man who can’t launch a rocket to save his life is also incompetent at making self driving cars? His mediocrity knows no bounds.
To be fair Musk only has money and doesnt Do shit at either Company
He meddles. That much is apparent. The cybertruck is obviously a top down design as evidenced by the numerous atrocious design compromised the engineers had to make just to make it real. From the glued on “exoskeleton” to the hollowed ALUMINUM frame to the complete lack of physical controls to the default failure state turning it into a coffin to the lack of waterproofing etc.
Every time I see it it just looks like the earth ran out of memory and set resolution too low
It’s hilarious to me that Musk claims to work 100 hours a week but he’s the CEO of five companies. Even if the claim were true (and of course it isn’t) it means being the CEO of one of his companies is a 20-hour-a-week job at best.
Seriously. I waa better at rocketry than him by age twelve.
Oof, these highlighted parts from only one video are already enough for me. This looks very stressful, I don’t think I could finish a whole ride with one of these.
Don’t worry. It’ll get into a collision before you finish a whole ride.
Woaw! Damn! The robotaxis are a dangerous fuck up!? That’s most surprising thing that happened all year! There’s literally no way I could’ve seen that coming.
Watching anything that fElon fail sparks joy.
StudentRobo drivers, amirite?So it emulates a standard BMW driver. Well done.
Still work to be done, it uses the blinkers.
At least they were used incorrectly to be just as unpredictable.
Tesla driver are the new BMW drivers. And since Tesla uses their customers driving data to train their AI it’s not a surprise that the AI drives like an asshole.
Watch that stock price fall… wheeeee
It already jumped up about 10% on monday simply because the service launched. Even if the service crashes and burns, they’ll jump to the next hype topic like robots or AI or whatever and the stock price will stay up.
And its fallen back down about 30% of those gains already. Hype causes spikes… that’s nothing new.
Wow it’s almost like having an AI with a 2D view to go off of is a bad idea? Hmmm who’d have thunk it?
You’re telling me we’re not at the point where self driving cars are a thing? But a Tech CEO said so? Who am I supposed to believe if not a Tech CEO?
Self-driving cars are a thing, Weymo is doing pretty fine.
But you might be able to spot a few (dozen) teeny-tiny (huge, bulky and extremely obvious) differences between a Waymo and a Tesla cybercab.
Lie dare you claim Waymo is better than Tesla
(it is a lidar joke, Waymo has lidar sensors which makes it way safer)
What real world problem does this solve?
Actually, lots. The issue is that if it doesn’t work it’s dangerous.
Task automation
Is it really task automation if it does it worse than a drunk human could have done it?
I didn’t claim Tesla has solved this automation problem.
Waymo is closer to human levels, but not yet considerably better.
Nothing that a train + scooter / bicycle cannot solve imo
Stonks?
Navigation issue / hesitation
The video really understates the level of fuck up that the car did there…
And the guy sitting there just casually being ok with the car ignoring the forced left going straight into oncoming lanes and flipping the steering wheel all over the place because it has no idea what the hell just happened… I would not be just chilling there…
Of course, I wouldn’t have gotten in this car in the first place, and I know they cherry picked some hard core Tesla fans to be allowed to ride at all…
I’ve come to the realization, at least where I live, that a hell of a lot of accidents are prevented because of drivers who are actually aware and safe. This goes a bit beyond defensive driving IMO. I’m talking flat out accident avoidable. There is an entire class of drivers who are not even aware of the accidents they have almost caused because someone else managed to avoid their stupid driving.
The majority of accidents that are likely to happen with these robocoffins will be single car or robocoffin meets robocoffin. The numbers on safety after a year will be acceptable because non accident causing error prone driving is not reported in any official capacity.
I still maintain that the only safe way to have autonomous vehicles on the road is if they do not share the road with human drivers and have an open standard for communicating with other autonomous cars.
open standard
Soery, no, that’s infrastructure.
If we’re gonna let them on the road, I say that software should get points just like a driver, but when it gets suspended all the cars running that software get shut down.
How about we leave the driving to people, and not pre-alpha software?
There’s no accountability for this horribly dangerous driving, so they shouldn’t be on the road. Period.
There’s no accountability for this horribly dangerous driving, so they shouldn’t be on the road. Period.
Well that’s exactly what their post was about, adding accountability.
Was it? I didn’t read a single hint of adding accountability in the article.
But that begs the question: shouldn’t accountability be in place now, and not maybe at some point in the distant future? They are already on the road.
Not the article, the post from njordamir that you were directly replying to.
shouldn’t accountability be in place now,
Again literally what that user was suggesting
Ah, Ok.
I agree with accountability, but not with the point system. That’s almost like a “three strikes” rule for drunk drivers.
That’s not really accountability, that’s handing out free passes.
That’s almost like a “three strikes” rule for drunk drivers.
Oh man, that would be amazing. If after 3 strikes, all drunk driving could be eliminated… If only we could be so lucky.
He’s not talking about a per-vehicle points system, he’s talking about a global points system for Tesla inc. If after a few incidents, essentially Tesla FSD had it’s license revoked across the whole fleet, I mean, that’s pretty strict accountability I’d say. That’s definitely not handing out free passes, it’s more like you get a few warnings and a chance to fix issues before the entire program is ended nation wide.
I mean, if they weren’t as buggy as they clearly already are, then sure… do a point system.
But as they stand, they shouldn’t be on the road.
