Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has issued a dire warning to her party about the chaos that could ensue if they succeed in pushing President Joe Biden off the ticket. And she criticized Democrats who’ve given off-the-record quotes that suggest the party has resigned itself to a second Trump term.
In an Instagram Live video on Thursday, Ocasio-Cortez warned liberals that a brokered convention could lead to chaos, in part because she says some of the Democratic “elites” who want Biden out also don’t want Vice President Kamala Harris as the nominee in his place.
“If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee,” she said.
Ocasio-Cortez claimed none of the people she’s spoken with who are calling on Biden to drop out — including lawmakers and legal experts — have articulated a plan to swap out the nominee without minimizing the serious legal and procedural challenges that are likely to ensue.
Ocasio-Cortez also highlighted the racial, ethnic and class divisions that appear to have formed between the majority of those pining to blow up the ticket — led mostly by white Democrats and media pundits — and those elected officials who feel they and their constituents have too much at stake to upend the process at this point and so are willing to do the work to re-elect Biden-Harris. She alluded to this cultural divide in her video when she spoke out against anonymous sources expressing a sense of fatalism on behalf of Democrats about what might happen if Biden remains on the ticket:
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don’t care what name is on there. We are not losing. I don’t know about you, but my community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July of an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
“Trust me, it’ll be super bad (in non-specific ways) to swap out Biden. There are unspecified people pushing to replace Biden for unspecified bad-faith reasons. Just ignore the obvious problems with the candidate, stop saying critical things and get in line. You naysayers don’t want to be responsible for handing Donald Trump the election, do you?”
Super strategy, guys.
(in non-specific ways)
(raises hand)
Who are we replacing him with?
If that doesn’t have an answer then I have one very specific way in which dropping him might make things worse
If the answer is “let the DNC figure it out, they’ve never steered us wrong before with a candidate” then I will have at least one follow up question
The likely answer is Harris, but the actual answer is whoever he endorses. Everyone on both sides of the issue has agreed that forcing him off the ticket won’t work, which is why it’s been a pressure campaign.
In any case, the notion the donors are going to all line up and bring someone we’ve never heard of out of a back room to supplant the obvious choice of the vice president or even a popular governor isn’t realistic.
I agree that in practice, it’ll be Harris. I think then the sensible conversation is whether she’ll have a better chance of winning than Biden will.
To me, the fact that she polls like 2 points ahead of him, while she is as she currently is an unknown quantity without all of the attacks against Biden that have been spun up (he invented inflation, he loves immigrants way too much, he killed Palestine, he betrayed Israel, etc etc pick your poison depending on the target audience involved), is a pretty good argument for rallying around Biden instead of switching to Harris and hoping she’ll keep that 2 points. I think once the same machine that’s been trying to burn Biden down gets spun up for real against her, she’ll crumple up and get crushed worse than Biden currently is. Maybe I am wrong in that.
I can see an argument that Biden may continue to fuck up doing things like he did at the debate, and so we need to switch even if by the calculus right now it’s a losing proposition, because of that risk. That doesn’t seem crazy to me. But it’s telling to me that people are saying “We need to switch to candidate X who can’t be compared against Biden directly”, instead of having the honest conversation about why it should be Harris.
I wish Jon Stewart would attend the convention as a candidate.
The only good argument I can think of for swapping candidates last minute is it will throw the Republican propaganda machine into disarray; they’ll need a good month or so to figure out a narrative against whoever it is. But they’re already gearing up anti-Kamala stuff.
“Trust me, it’ll be super bad to replace Biden without a strategy, and nobody can agree on a strategy”
Much better to stick with the strategy of browbeating anyone who points out Biden is losing and only speaks in complete sentences about half the time.
That’s not a strategy.
I forgot to include “Run out the clock until it really is too late to replace Biden” and “Hope for a miracle in November.”
You’ve already proven that you haven’t read the article, so anything you say at this point can be dismissed.
Okay, I guess if I don’t read so good, someone as smart as you can point out to me the part where AOC articulated the strategy to win while keeping Biden on the ballot.
By calling out how there is no strategy behind the folks asking for him to step down. They have alluded to the fact that they don’t want Harris either. It’s a hard pill to swallow since it doesn’t fit your narrative, but you’re going to have to accept reality.
Pointing out those things isn’t a strategy either.
The strategy this entire time has plainly been for him to voluntarily step aside and endorse a replacement, probably Kamala.
“If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee,” she said.
Maybe read the fucking article. They’re clearly aiming at having neither Biden nor Kamala as a choice.
I watched her stream, hence the reference to unspecific people for unspecific bad reasons. She vaguely alluded to chaos at the convention, which is highly unlikely if Biden endorses anyone.
Keep digging your head in the sand, then. Ain’t gonna waste my time.
We can only hope
Completely missed the point.
As opposed to the strategy that’s been spammed here for months:
“Well clearly the Democrats are useless and are going to lose. It’s Weekend at Bernie’s out there except it isn’t even Bernie. The DNC has never done anything for the people and have decided to roll over for Trump. My friends and I are just not going to vote, that’ll give the party a wakeup call.”
Unification is about the only strategy that will win this. I will absolutely vote blue no matter who, but if anyone was serious about replacing Biden they would have had to unify behind another candidate weeks or months ago. “Maybe Newsom” is NOT A STRATEGY.
My friends and I are just not going to vote, that’ll give the party a wakeup call
Then they’ll go all surprised Pikachu that there are no elected officials or candidates pushing their views the next time around.
I’m also absolutely vote blue no matter who. It’s seemed pretty clear to me that the strategy of the people who want Biden to drop out has been pressuring him into doing it voluntarily and endorsing a replacement, likely Harris.
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Keep on, these Ad hominem attacks are surely going to get folks to line up behind you.
This thread is the first I’ve seen where the keep Bideners are in stronger numbers than the ditch Bideners.
It’s refreshing, but, just like the .ml folks, I think y’all need to also look outside your own bubble.
Every single one of these threads, I ask the ditch Bideners for a strategy and have never gotten a single one.
So whatever bubble you think there is, I’m in reality where Biden is the nominee until he isn’t, and the “fuck you I’m taking my ball and going home” crowd are motherfucking fascist apologizers.
The game is on whether or not you take your ball and go home. The lack of a plan or strategy makes it clear that you’re either not serious or panicking.
You know it’s hard to make a strategy if instead of talking about it, someone keeps screeching over it with “Wrong!!! Won’t work! WRONG!!” And keep vilifying anyone thinking what lots of others are as something worse than the actual enemy.
I think panicking is fine and a normal response to situations that require it. If you think yourself above having to make a snap response you might just miss the chance too.
You know it’s hard to make a strategy if instead of talking about it, someone keeps screeching over it with “Wrong!!! Won’t work! WRONG!!”
I mean…maybe stop suggesting things that are wrong and won’t work?
If you’re not hearing the strategies, then you have done too good of a job at filtering your news.
Wow.
What a strategy.
I was with you until not voting. I have very real concerns about Biden’s ability to even be on the campaign trail. The dude struggles through schedules interviews and appearances in ways that he clearly didn’t used to. It seems to me that they did everything possible to hide his present condition so that there wouldn’t be a real primary, which is a shame, because I think that he’s no longer fit to serve the role of the presidency given present evidence. That said, I would vote for a dead body before I vote for Trump; I’m just frustrated that the democrats are making me.
The post you’re responding to says no one is making good suggestions, just saying “give up and come up with a new last minute plan”. Awful advice. Just awful.
No one cares if you critique anyone. It’s not anyone’s job to take bad plans seriously.
Did you read the post?
Did you read the post?
They definitely did not.
Did you read it?
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose.
She stated over and over again in the stream that people voicing concerns about Biden’s ability are weakening him, and followed her new recurring habit of failing to rebut any of those concerns.
You’re acting like we’re entering completely unknown waters if we switch candidates. The strategy is simply to get a new candidate, likely the other person already on the ticket, run a campaign and win. The fact that several alternatives are polling neck and neck with the two candidates without even campaigning is a testament to how weak both Biden and Trump are.
That’s just more words, not more substance. You’re doing here exactly what AOC is calling out: giving a vague description of the surface of what you think will happen in a best case scenario with no tactical or even strategic consideration for first mitigating the chaos the basic act will create.
The problem isn’t that you need to come up with the play by play, the problem is that no one has. It’s literally the worst kind of plan: no plan at all.
It’s about the dumbest possible move, really, and it’s telling that the only motivation behind it is that he’s old.
Throw out the incumbent advantage, throw out all current strategies months before the election, hand wave away the candidate slate as objectively better with minimal examination, expose us to huge legal vulnerability against the most litigious party I’ve ever seen, who currently seems to have captured the judicial branch, in the highest stakes election I’ve seen so far, and do it all without any inkling of a play by play to create unity and mitigate doubt or even a hint of an acknowledgment of the problems that the move would cause in the best case scenario?
Awful.
I’m sorry but she says enough here about the machinations of the donor-class that makes me think someone absolutely heinous is being lined up to take Biden’s place
The notion that they’re going to whisk some corporate plant out of a back room that nobody’s ever heard of isn’t realistic. The favorites for a replacement are all no less donor-friendly than Biden has been.
The notion that they’re going to whisk some corporate plant out of a back room that nobody’s ever heard of isn’t realistic.
There are corporate plants we have heard of, and I wouldn’t put it past the party to nominate Clinton again. Or Manchin.
Source: “my ass”
Indeed, even my ass is capable of understanding the donors also don’t want to lose.
I don’t think that’s true. They know they don’t really have to compete in this election, and it shows. It’s the same mindset that was behind HRC16 and the Hillary campaign promoting Trump.
You’ll also lose primary voters. I voted in the primaries, there were multiple candidates, Biden lost the primary in American Samoa. If you throw away my primary vote by swapping in another anointed candidate, why would I ever vote in your primaries again? What is even the point? It’s like the DNC learned nothing from the debacle of them trying to squeeze Bernie out of the race (thank you Wikileaks for revealing their corrupt BS and causing reforms to the primary process). They lost a lot of voters doing that.
I hate the RNC, but if they are the only party that will respect my primary vote, they are the primary I will vote in next election. Dems switching primaries like this may produce a more moderate republican candidate, which is bad news for dems, since they won’t just be able to run on “The RNC is run by crazy christian fascists who want to take all your rights away”.
“Hello, fellow Democrats”
AOC for President.
Met her briefly at a Sanders campaign rally. Would vote for her in a heartbeat.
see, I have hella respect for Bernie and his heartfelt endorsements (i.e. local, state reps) carry weight. national endorsements are usually more political and harder to guage.
this genuinely creates an internal, personal dilemma.
edit: the deed is done and, I imagine, Bernie is released from any obligations owed for what he got into the biden agenda. will be interesting to watch.
Go back and watch Pelosi’s speeches from the late 70s on C-SPAN. AOC sounds exactly like her, and we’ve seen how out of touch Pelosi and all other politicians are.
That just sounds like Pelosi was straight fire in her prime. Will AOC be stale in 50 years? Maybe, or maybe she ends up a Bernie.
She gonna be a pelosi
So maybe Pelosi shouldn’t be in office for over 50 years then. I’m not throwing away a good thing now because it might spoil later. May as well empty out your fridge while you’re at it with that logic.
It’d be nice to have a competent candidate for once.
I guess Biden is the ship and the rest of the party is going down with him.
She needs to sit down and shut the fuck up. If Biden stays in, there is 100% certainty that Trump is going to win.
My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
Im sure she still has some of those crocodile tears she shed at the border for them.
You don’t know that. You are just a blow hard.
You’re being generous.
Math isnt too hard, and right now the math is not in Biden’s favor
“You see, Joe, the numbers don’t lie. And they spell disaster for you.”
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I was surprised at the comment until I saw who made it.
Uhm… Well the news just came in.
Vast majority of AOC’s support is from the acronym, AOC.
‘Could lead to chaos’. Ma’am, that ship has sailed. When even high ranking party members openly doubt the president’s ability to get elected, much less actually lead, you’ve clearly lost control of the situation.
Will replacing Biden at this stage be easy? Of course not. But he shouldn’t have been in the Oval Office in the first place. Running a candidate this frail once was a gamble… doing it twice is suicidal.
Democrat leadership only has itself to blame for this predicament.
When I voted in the primary, there was one name on the ballot: Joe Biden. Anybody who thinks that was a free and fair election is on crack.
There were states with multiple people on the ticket and Biden won them hands down.
Why did some states have multiple people and some only one?
Because there were no serious candidates who filed because the message from party leadership was clear: the incumbent is running, it’s his.
Every state has their own way of doing primaries, is the short answer. Probably people were eligible to run in some states but not in others for varies reasons.
Hopefully someone else chimes in with a better answer than I could give.
AOC and Bernie are both saying this and I agree 110%. In all occasions. The most important thing is we all make a plan to go out and vote. Talk to other democrats and make sure they fight that demoralization and go out and vote. There is so much at stake with Project 2025 that I dont even care about these headlines anymore.
Agreed. She also pointed out that early voting ballots go out in September. A new campaign would have an eight week runway if it started now.
His health is declining fast and way too many people think he looks too old (both candidates are) and too mentally busted to last 4 more years. Let alone him even staying coherent another 6 months. He is 100% unable to coherently and quickly speak anymore and it’s not going to magically get better. The real issue is that they should have done something about it 4 months ago so a better candidate could have been picked and it could have looked like Bidens choice to no run for a second term.
I still think the best chance is to put in someone else, but it’s pretty much too late for them to get their shit together.
I’m beginning to think the play is for Joe to only last till the election because there’s no fucking way the country is going to learn about and be excited by one single person with the amount of time the completely incompetent DNC has left us with. If Joe decides he’s too banged up on day one, he can leave the office then.
Likely, but the problem is that people don’t want to vote for the guy that may have alzheimers, and Harris isn’t very liked. They needed to do something months ago. Either a different candidate or a shit ton of good PR for Harris.
This whole issue is happening because he decided to try for a second term. That is the origin of this cluster fuck. Because he said he wasn’t going to.
He never said he wasn’t going to. A media outlet reported on rumors he’d only committed to one term and everyone took that as gospel. Turns out he sort of maybe signaled it one interview with Slate as a maybe, he never said he’d only do one term.
Thank you. I’ve been saying this for years now and usually get downvoted for it, which makes me sad – not because I care about downvotes but because so many people seem not to understand that this is 1933 and we need to be all-in against fascism right now.
Biden just stepped down, so it’s even more important that we unite against the threat. I don’t care who’s on the Democrat ticket – whether it’s Kamala or anyone else, even Biden’s bitey dog – this isn’t the time to debate policy. We need to vote and convince everyone who isn’t a fascist to vote against this. If we don’t, they will kill us, and that’s not hyperbole.
Please vote.
AoC self admitted she could be wrong and she is. She doesn’t keep her finger on the pulse the same we do, she’s off building solar panels in Puerto Rico. I like AoC, she’s so far off the mark it’ll fuck us over.
She argues that changing candidates this late could complicate the Ohio vote and lead to supreme court deciding the election.
What ‘pulse’ does that even matter about?
Also why do you write ‘AoC’ like that? Her name isn’t Alexandria of Cortes
It’s happened what, once? Twice? A meteor could hit the building both candidates debate at but it’s as unlikely.
Knowing what’s happening is a pretty important part of being a politian. Not knowing what’s being said during a conversation is a pretty good way to say something stupid.
Autocorrect for a gaming acronym I use frequently and the laziness to not go back and correct it every time. Though there’s something to be said about feeling it nessesary to use it as a point of attack even though it’s unrelated.
Also, looks like Biden is dropping out. Sucks to suck.
Yeah, Biden dropped out. Fuck me sideways.
I didn’t mean to attack you about the spelling, just curious since you did it more than once. and it made me think of Attack on Titan acronym, a funny juxtaposition
It seemed like a stronger and stronger possibility because allies within the party were urging it, not just the general public. I’m sincerely surprised he didn’t just grit his teeth and push forward until it was way too late. We’ll see what happens now I guess.
And no worries, been really into Ashes of Creation and it’s a mouthful. To be fair I wouldn’t trust Ashes of Creation on being up to date politically either.
I trust AOCs judgement, although it might just be both options are equal as long as the party can commit to one. The worst possible outcome is non-commitment, as it’s the worst of both worlds.
Stick with Biden, you rally 100% with a flawed candidate and highlight all the good he’s done with a flawed Congress (a majority in name only on progressive issues). Can win if you don’t repeat 2016 mistakes, which at this point I don’t think we’ll be taking the rust belt for granted.
Abandon Biden 100%, you quickly side with an obvious choice and build a campaign. Time isn’t on your side but you aren’t dealing with a much baggage. Can win if the big tent party can agree on things and rally behind the choice even if it’s not their first choice. Kamala is boring but probably would be the pick with least resistance.
The problem is neither is happening, so you get Biden with sub-100% support and buying into the age narrative rather than pivoting to his strengths, which is very much a losing strategy. Those resigned to losing probably know this is our trajectory unless something big happens (e.g. Biden sheds the age narrative somehow or drops out leading to a clear successor.)
My hope? We get a 2016 surprise in our favor: polls say Trump wins 99% odds yet Biden pulls off an upset. Wouldn’t that be sweet irony…
That situation won’t happen as Trump would sue and the Supreme Court would agree there is fraud with no evidence to back it up.
I think that’ll more likely be Congress, unless it’s as close as 2000 was. A margin like 2016 would be harder to override through courts, but if GOP gets both chambers I can see them just overriding the vote somehow, January 6 style.
Americans have a 2 week memory. There is plenty of time to replace Biden.
My hope? We get a 2016 surprise in our favor: polls say Trump wins 99% odds yet Biden pulls off an upset. Wouldn’t that be sweet irony…
The Trumpanzees are going to screech about the election being rigged regardless what happens, I’d rather not give them any extra ammo for people to take them seriously about it. I’d like to see Trump absolutely blown the fuck out with votes, I want a 98-2% split in favor of Biden. The only votes I want going toward Trump are Guilty votes from his jury.
Fuck that. They’ve already proven that they will scream rigged regardless of the outcome.
Yeah, I’d love a blowout but we know that’s not going to happen. Let them whine, if they want to take up arms I just want to be on the side that still gets to control the drones.
if dems, indies, and the few remaining “sane republicans”. go out and vote, you will see a landslide. binden is not inspiring a groundswell. if the groundswell comes it will be due only to public terror. I would rather get a vote_based_on_terror + passing_of_the_torch_to_our_young_victims_cuz_we_sure_fucked_up vibe from the US population at large
It’ll be 98-2 in popular vote, but it’ll be 49-51 in electoral college.
But… Now hear me out. I’m a mostly lifelong Democrat who is tired of seeing this system get more and more corrupt each cycle. Maybe this capitalist system needs a reboot. I’m losing hope that any candidate the DNC runs is going to fix any of what needs fixing.
It’s almost as if they’ve actually already quietly conceded defeat and are just backfilling the position out of, fuck I don’t know, adherence to decorum? I hope I’m just jaded but I have a bad feeling about it.
Yeah, the fact that college kids getting beaten up by cops over Palestinian genocide didn’t prompt this crisis of confidence in Biden but the donor class getting upset makes it dominate the airwaves is really annoying, but not at all surprising.
At the end of the day, whoever has the best chance of beating Trump should be our nominee whether it’s Biden or somebody else
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don’t care what name is on there. We are not losing. I don’t know about you, but my community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July of an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
This was really well said and echoes my feelings exactly
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Who accepts loss months before the election when the other guy is already saying they won’t accept loss months after the election?
This is the first time I’ve ever started disagreed with AOC on something. If we stick with Biden we’re definitely handing the White House to Trumplethinskin. As Democrats we suck at picking candidates.
Idgaf if they nominate Jimmy Carter, I’m voting against the Republican
I would vote for Jimmy Carter again in a heartbeat, that man had principles.
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Same. It’s the most out-of-step I’ve ever been with her and Bernie, a bit jarring for me. I mean, I get it, it’s free political capital for progressives to voice support here. But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden’s candidacy became unviable.
Could be that they are doing this to keep them from dumping Harris too, which might be the necessary compromise for the party in the end.
But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden’s candidacy became unviable.
Yeah, his campaign has been dead since a senator went public in opposition. You don’t put in the visible performance he did at the debate, then publicly lose major Democrats, and somehow turn around an already losing campaign. I really don’t get anyone who thinks there’s some path for Biden to win. He didn’t need to lose the faith of a majority of the party to be unviable (which he now has), losing any significant segment was enough to be crippling.
There’s no way to put the genie back in the bottle and people trying to act like it just seem out of touch with reality. Whatever risks you think a new candidate has, at least there’s a chance.
we suck at picking candidates.
The issue is voters don’t pick the candidates, the DNC does. Then the party will rally behind the hand picked candidate and the public follows behind
Yes you are correct. I was talking to the idea that if we have a brokered convention we still suck at picking candidates most of the time.
You are correct that this is different because the incumbent gets a free pass and we didn’t have a real primary between equal candidates.
This is a good fucking take, have to say. She very obviously knows what she’s talking about extremely well, has the best interests of those she represents at heart, and knows how to express it all clearly for the average layperson. You don’t get a lot of politicians of that caliber.
No wonder the Republicans hate her so much!
I can’t understand the people who dislike her. My sisters don’t like her either and think she’s “dumb” but every time she speaks, she makes what seems to me to be well thought out, rational arguments.
I wouldn’t say I dislike her, but I don’t like the AOC worship here.
Yes, she voices what we’re all thinking. She elevates our voice.
The problem is that she’s also unrealistic in expectations, and that can cause a rift. I wouldn’t say her comments cause a rift in the party itself, but among voters.
For example, she was all in on the expanding the SCOTUS bandwagon. Functionally, it’s untenable. Any politician should know that. There’s some loophole that would allow you to do it with simple majorities in house and senate, but that loophole is sketchy and likely won’t work out. And if it does, that opens Pandora box to completely railroad this country next time Reps get simple majorities in both houses. Which may be half a year away.
But it seems like a brilliant workaround on the surface. And people who bought into that pipe dream became extremely disruptive, causing fights amongst blue voters.
And this isn’t the only time. She’s a consistent voice of the Progressives. Which is fine. Idealist should have a voice. But I would prefer it if her and Bernie would also include pragmatic expectations with their ideas in a way that doesn’t put their more moderate colleagues on blast for no reason.
To give it a real world hypothetical we can all probably relate to. I’m a programmer, so I’ll put it in those terms, but this applies to pretty much any job one way or another.
Let’s say you’re maintaining a code base that has a lot of problems. Maintaining it is a nightmare. Ask an experienced engineer, I have identified a number of solutions of varying effort and effectiveness.
The best solutions would require giant re-writes and would require parallel effort from other teams to support our effort. Risk is large
The next best requires extensive refactoring of our teams code base, but can be done in isolation from other teams for the most part. Risk is still large because we’re going to need to swap out major parts of our internal infrastructure, but no impact to other teams.
And then there’s the shortest path. Fix problems as they come up, make small refactors as you can to help relieve some headaches. Let’s you move fast and not be disruptive, but the underlying problems stay around. Smallest risk.
Now, having brought these to the table, management chooses the least risky option because they can’t or won’t commit to larger scale efforts because of other priorities.
Do I talk shit, be extremely negative, try to get other non-management colleagues to join my outcry for the “right” solution? I could. I have. But if I do, I’m putting my employment / influence at risk. And sometimes it’s more appropriate to just keep the ideal solution on the backburner, do what’s immediately effective, and bring the best solution to the table at a better time.
To me, AOC and Bernie are those coworkers that won’t shut up about the “perfect” solution. And maybe even attack their colleagues for not supporting them in their pursuit of perfect when they’re just trying to tread water and get the easier wins to the finish line.
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Damn straight! Us software developers know better because we’re expected to learn any domain. Obviously the government works a lot like software and that makes me a theoretically political scientist.
Fuckin tech bros are worse than doctors and the “as a mom” people
And what specific points do you disagree with.
Great job ignoring the point.
Wisdom is choosing when to pick a fight. AOC is intelligent, but not very wise.
She’s very popular with the progressive crowd who want to hear their problems and solutions echoed by a prominent politician. But she’s also tact-less. Stirring up shit that has zero chance of becoming reality.
And again, I think it can lead to healthy discussion of what things could be like. If we had a possible super majority and could really reform the government. If it were phrased as such, I wouldn’t have any problem.
But in practice, I find her antics to be more screaming into the wind than being productive. And it has only served to weaponize the “leftists” against the party to the point we’re losing votes and not gaining anything.
You make a lot of claims and generalize from there, but I am not sure what specifics you are talking about. In the specific case of Kamala, it seems she was right and got her way (breaking news). So really, your point (which I am not sure if it goes beyond personal attacks) is rendered moot.
The dumb person is your sister.
Because she’s actually left and they know it. Most Democrats are centered left or even right.
I see a lot of people who hate her for not being left enough. Whilst I sympathise with that stance to an extent, from the perspective of someone in the UK, the US seems so shockingly right wing that I’m surprised that a figure like Ocasio-Cortez exists at all. That is to say that I wish America had more left wing politicians, but given the current lack, AOC is a refreshing presence.
Supporting Genocide is never left. She is a centrist.
Do you ever get tired of huffing your own farts?
Does defending Genocide ever get tiring?
Because they’re gobbling up the mainstream media narrative that labels both progressives, and women who are politicians, as irrational and naive. AOC gets the whole venn diagram of bullshit thrown at her.
Yes, even women can internalize misogyny. You only have to go as far as your local fundie churches to hear women saying FeMaLEs are too emotional to be president or that women should be subservient to their husbands because women just no brain good compared to men.
I like AOC, but do you really think she has her constituents best interest at heart if trump is leading the polls?
It’s amazing that you seem to think she has a direct influence on how trump and biden are polling.
How does that logic make any fucking sense?
Trump is beating Biden by a wide margin at this point. So pushing for Biden is likely leading to a Trump win
i don’t think pushing for Biden is leading to a Trump win, because i don’t see many people pushing for Biden. i see a lot of people (social media, talking heads, news outlets) complaining about Biden.
if Dems and progressives want to defeat Trump, well, you coulda fooled me because that’s not what their behavior accomplishes. it looks like a great many are weakening and undermining our current path to success. right now, with no compelling alternative, that means a Trump win.
as far as i can tell, we can support Biden or continue to shoot at our own feet in a panic which only makes the opposition stronger.
i don’t think pushing for Biden is leading to a Trump win, because i don’t see many people pushing for Biden.
this is…incoherent. I dont think fire is hot because I dont see many people sticking their hands into fire
let me try this another way. i don’t agree with the statement that a is currently causing b, because i don’t see a happening. b has some other cause.
How are we having this conversation if no one is supporting Biden?
This usually happens after the respective party conference every four years.
Polling is also massively inaccurate as everyone younger than 45 mutes/blocks phone calls from these people.
I think most of these polls came out of the debate.
And unfortunately, the discrepancy between polling and election results has had a tendency to skew in republican favor. But its not like weve got any say in biden staying in or not at this point, lets see how the polls look after the democrat convention.
Polls were historically accurate in 2022.
But I know the facts don’t matter, only the narrative that you bought.
There’s a fun thing that happens when people are deep in rabbit holes. They get led to insane conclusions by a breadcrumb of bullshit, usually starting out with a semi reasonable premise.
But then sometimes when they pop out of their rabbit hole they just jump straight from A to X, without explaining the chain of bullshit that led them down to X.
It’s why Trump and other MAGAs say shit that is insane, not like as a metaphor but like stuff that has zero connection to reality, regardless of what politics you believe in. You just haven’t followed their path of increasingly absurd propositions, but they followed it because each new proposition was only slightly more out there than the last.
In this case, I suspect there was something like
(A) Trump is leading polls --> (B) Biden cannot beat trump --> (C) we need to replace Biden --> (D) replacing Biden is the best thing to do for the nation --> (E) anyone who supports Biden is acting contrary to the best interests of the nation
By this logic, the more (A) is happening, the more (E) is correct. But he skipped B through D, so it’s more clear how absurd the conclusion is because you didn’t get the frog-in-boiling-water parade of misinformation and propaganda.
Mad props for trying to explain the mental gymnastics.
My conclusion is not insane, it’s practical. I was a 100% Biden supporter, defended him vehemently. You can check my history here and in Kbin. He was my pick in 2016 (ironically though, after Kamala and Booker dropped from the race). Hell, I fucking stood up and cheered during the SOTU. My wife calls him her grandpa.
And then I watched that disastrous debate. He clearly isn’t all there anymore. And my eyes opened entirely. The signs have been there for years.
I love what he’s done for our country. I love his cabinet. I follow politics probably more than 90% of y’all here and have for decades. I was there for Bill when he won against all odds. I was decimated when Al Gore, who was probably our best shot for climate change policy, lost to Bush and Nader. And again I was spurned when Hillary lost by thin margins in swing states while trouncing the popular vote.
Hell, I’ll likely run for some office someday. How many else of you would actually belly up to the bar rather than just bluster here?
Our guy’s mind is deluded. The tip of our spear has blunted. It’s time to take grandpas keys away before he wraps our family’s only car around a lightpole.
Bullshit. If you actually loved Biden’s cabinet and his team, and if you actually believed that his cognitive ability was in decline, you’d tell us to vote for him and then have him step aside AFTER the election, so the EXTREMELY WELL-ESTABLISHED PROCESS of taking over from an incapacitated POTUS can begin.
I’ll vote for his corpse, but I’m not sure Joe voter in Pennsylvania will.
Joe voter in Pennsylvania will absolutely not vote for “insert Dem here”.
Disrupting the Democratic campaign is a right wing strategem.
Being the president isn’t a televised debate, it’s a 3,000+ person job of leading the executive branch. Biden has a speech impediment, and the older you get the more difficult it is to hide those shortcomings.
He has done an amazing job considering the absolute catastrophe fuckface draft dodger left for him. Given the choice between old draft dodger bitch and old guy who loves his children and has a speech impediment, it’s not a difficult choice.
Sure, I get what you’re saying 100%, but it’s not me and 99% of the people on here that you need to convince.
I get it, and these people are the same reason we got Trump in the first place. They are willing to forgo voting for Biden because he is not the perfect candidate, or their candidate.
Instead we get “their” candidate which is abortion and porn banned, increased taxes for all of us, corpo tax breaks, and much less freedom. But they will turn around and say “it’s not my fault, democrats should have ran someone else to make me happy to vote”.
People lack the ability to be adults about voting and vote against literal fascism.
Ah, yes, you were with him up UNTIL the debate. Would’ve been more believable if you said genocide instead, lol. Totally believable, not a flagrant lie at all. How does this argument even have to do with what you originally said?
I’ll be 100% honest with you here. My feelings on the Jewish / Palestine conflict are very mixed.
If you care about the Palestinians because you disapprove of war and genocide, then I think you should also understand that Hamas made their bed when they murdered and raped Jews at the start of the conflict. And believe me, I know the cassus belli for this have been there for even before my parents were born.
I also am aware that most of you will downvote my opinion on this matter. That’s your right, but the world is indeed nuanced, neither side is in the right here and the evangelicals will only continue to fan the flames until their perceived Judgement Day has come.
If you care what’s happening there, you should also care about what’s happening in Ukraine, Darfur, with the Rohingya, the Congo, Yemen, the Uyghurs and the First Nations in America, and likely more that I don’t even know about.
But the way through those is to ensure we have a strong state department. You know who would tear down the state department like he did in his first term?
Again, what does any of this have to do with your original statement. You’re all over the place.
Hamas did not rape any Jews on 7oct. In fact the UN and recent HRW report stated there is no evidence of any rape on 7oct
You are confusing Hamas with israel who mass rapes Palestinians through history.
