As a centrist I can say with certainty that both sides are being misrepresented here.
Wrong!
Source: We’re on Lenny
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He even had a horseshoe tattooed on his neck.
Bolsheviks literally exterminated entire social groups because they believed they were impure. Calling people “kulaks” and such.
They also deported (as in half dying in the way) to Siberia whole peoples, like Chechens and Ingushs.
Also some peoples by ethnicity alone were deemed suspicious in certain parts of USSR and forcefully moved from there. That’s how there are very few Greeks in Crimea.
And you have those hammer and sickle on the “far left” pic.
Anyone still claiming to be an undecided voter in 2024 is quite frankly full of shit
Anyone claiming that the Democrats goals are to ensure everyone’s needs are met is full of shit.
At this point Dems are moderate right wings and the Republicans are far right. We don’t really have a “far left” party.
So why does the above post refer to undecided voters?
Because majority of left people vote dem and right vote for rep and centrist are undecided. This doesn’t mean left = dem, it just means dems are the best option right now for the left.
OK, so the dems are committed to ensuring everyone’s needs are met. Yes?
I wish
No one in this comment chain said that, they said they were the best option.
No one in this comment chain said that.
It’s in the picture right at the start.
Why mention the Democrats if they aren’t relevant to the meme being discussed?
The meme says “leftists” not democrats. Democrats are rarely leftists, and usually centrists/right wing.
I was not responding to the meme.
ok, so you’re undecided between trump/republicans and harris/democrats?
why?
Are Democrats committed to ensuring everyone’s needs are met?
If not, discussion here is irrelevant.
the discussion has moved on to see if you’re actually on the left, or are trying to discourage people on the left from voting, or are just a straight up accelerationist/fascist/glowie
The discussion seems to be based on the false assumption that Democrats are left wing and they want to ensure that everyone’s needs are met.
If you’re not responding to the meme, then why is your discussion on whether “everyone’s needs are met”? OP you responded to was only talking about undecided voters.
Because he’s a fucking Russian plant and the only memes he’s paid to talk about are “Democrats bad”.
How are undecided voters going to make a decision to support the party where “everyone’s needs are met” if there is no option to do so.
It has always been a myth. Humans are inherently political.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-moderate-middle-is-a-myth/
Yeah, that’s really what the far left does. OP must be delusional. Far right is pretty accurate tho.
I am far left
Yes, clearly
Hivemind moment
I always see memes aimed at centrists to be smug and disingenuous.
Lol. Had to depict the left with hammer and sickle-- a communist symbol. And it isn’t like the communists are constitent on LGBT rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights?wprov=sfla1
It’s pretty much the default Chad Leftist Wojak drawing. It’s been around for years.
And it isn’t like the communists are constitent on LGBT rights.
It is in the west for the past 40+ years.
Careful! last time I mentioned that I got called Sinophobic! =P
I think people who’ve enjoyed years under communist governments might disagree a little about the comparison here.
Based meme
Except they both say what the left guy says and accuse the other of being the right guy. You both also use all of the same strategies. Silver your opposition, throw shit, and make shit up wherever media is owned by you.
Yah except can fact check and see one side is making up a lot more BS. Hell, one news station got sued for making up stuff so bad.
Everyone can say stuff. How am I to know which stuff said is true?
Look into situations yourself. Like if someone says X person did Y, you can look and see if that’s true. There are plenty of face checking sites that list sources for you to verify information independently. Like when Trump said KH wants to raise retirement age, you can look and see she’s never said that or purposed that.
Also legal action on a topic is a good indicator as there has been proceedings done so the outcome can be more trusted.
But as a general rule of thumb I find the side that bans books and education, calls any criticism a lie, and has had a track record of lying on the record countless times as the less trustworthy side.
Where am I gonna look? I personally have a conviction for something I didn’t do because the legal process is lazy and malicious, so I won’t be trusting that either. Who am I to believe any digital story?
You’re not helpless to look up facts. If you’re asking where to look go to the source. For the example I mentioned you can look at her platform. Your stance seems to be very close to the “how can we know anything” which is often pushed as a mindset when a group of bad actors calls everything into question to avoid accountability. Truths can be known, things can be confirmed.
As for court, I said it’s more trustworthy, but not absolute by any means. It’s controlled by people, and people are not infallible.
Nothing is knowable. The map is not the territory and mappers have motivations.
So you don’t know your own name, how to read or type? Impressive.
Centrists are the real communists. They just want everyone to come together and hug it out.
Don’t you ever fucking joke around in my meme community, you monster
No, wait, he’s got a point…
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Far leftists aren’t trying to make sure everyone’s needs are met. They just like crying and bitching about how their perfect utopia hasn’t been handed to them yet.
Democrats (aka “liberals”) are actually working to improve lives for everyone.
I bet you’re fun at parties
Liberals have the best parties because we can actually afford to provide an open bar.
I’m far left, gay, live 3 blocks from the beach in the Los Angeles area, and work in tech with a 6 figure salary. F centrists and F conservatives.
The far left ain’t paying your salary rofl
You gotta work the system you’re provided.
Boom! You’re a liberal now, congratulations.
Quite.
So your privileged self would be fine if Trump was elected lol
Makes sense why you’ve only been posting anti-voting and anti-dem propaganda the last few months. Fuck those gay people who live in Florida and make minimum wage! Lol what a pompous techbro
Not every place is the US
I’m sorry, I didn’t realize there was a Democratic Party in other nations.
Democrats (aka “liberals”) are actually working to improve lives for everyone
Democrats support the genocide in Palestine and the drone strikes of Obama’s era.
No, we don’t. Dumbass.
I meant the politicians.
Ah ok fair enough. I’d still say “support” is a strong word. Democrats want the genocide to end, but aren’t willing to directly oppose Israel. Republicans, by contrast, want even more genocide.
Democrats want the genocide to end, but aren’t willing to directly oppose Israel.
Sure, that’s why they gave Netanyahu multiple standing ovations.
That line brought him huge applause, though the standing ovations Mr. Netanyahu received were mostly partisan, as Republicans clapped loudly and Democrats hung back, some sitting silently and stone-faced.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/24/us/politics/netanyahu-congress.html
You can watch it happen, the Democrats largely supported him with thunderous applause. Some dems did express minor resistance, but even Kamala stood up and condemned the protestors outside as “anti-semetic.”
How to tell us that you’re young without telling us you’re young.
Oh well, wait a decade or two and see what the Washington Democrats do to make your life better. See what they promise, see what they deliver, and see what they try to deliver. Feel free to update us then.
It’s cute when obvious teenagers try to accuse someone else of being young because they lack life experience showing them X, when X is demonstrably untrue. Which you would know if you’d actually lived through any history. Or read a Wikipedia article.
Or maybe you’re just a Russian troll.
Oh, well. Update us when Putin dies and you’re no longer being paid to shout “Democrats bad!” all the time.
How long does this take? I’m 40 and still see the D’s do much better in this regard in general. The first example that comes to mind is the Dodd-Frank act that Obama signed that added loads of consumer protections against predatory bank practices. I worked at a bank at the time and this was life changing for a lot of
victimscustomers that were bad with money.I mean, you can just actually take an honest look at Biden’s record and see the good he’s done. For instance the Infrastructure Bill was a big fucking deal. Right along with him and the Democratic Senate in appointing Federal Judges that are actually qualified.
Right-wing in-group: “So long as you be just like us in every way and fall in line, you will be accepted. Sort of.”
Left-wing in-group: “So long as you’re not an asshole, we don’t care what you believe or do.”
Right-wing out-group: Anyone not like them.
Left-wing out-group: Anyone who is an asshole.
Left-wing in-group: “So long as you’re not an asshole, we don’t care what you believe or do.”
Since fucking when?? The far left is famous for infighting and purity tests, has been for decades. It might even be the number one thing Leftism is known for.
Such as… ?
I mean if you need to narrow your scope to the “fAr LeFt,” in America to make your point then I can narrow my scope to the “fAr RiGht” and the difference is eco terrorism versus lynch mobs, so…
Theres a lot of nuisance in the definitions of left and right that are lost in reductive and polarizing statements like this. For instance a far left idea is an extreme belief in the philosophy of equity. When brought to its pure conclusion you end up in a communist environment where the state ends of being the dictator of exactly how much resources every individual is allowed to have. The conclusion to radical left and radical right policies is actually exactly the same. Authoritarianism.
There are plenty of ideas and philosophies on the right and left that are absolutely reasonable. Universal Healthcare on the left. Some immigration reforms or trade tariffs on the right.
These types of memes are very reductionist an unhelpful in terms of influencing people who are already woefully uneducated in the world of politics, philosophy, or trade and finance and only serves to try and convince stupid people that one very large and diverse group of people are literally evil while another very large group of diverse people are the good and virtuous.
Communism is when the shared public mechanisms under socialism run so well a government is no longer necessary at all. If it has a dictator or a government it is, by definition, not communism.
If it has a dictator or a government it is, by definition, not communism.
Ignoring the dictator bit, this is an anti-Marxist take, Marx never stated that Communism would have no government. When speaking of the State, Marx specifically speaks of the institutions of a Capitalist Government that etrench the Capitalist class, ie Private Property Rights and the militarized institutions that uphold them (the Capitalist police).
Marx was not an anarchist, he was advocating for central planning, and you cannot have central planning without central planners. Simply saying that the public mechanisms would “run really well” hides the fact that government would remain, planning and administrating.
Even Cybernetics would still need to have human administration, elections, and so forth to represent the will of the people.
You may wish to visit Critique of the Gotha Programme.
I may be misremembering, but the way I recall Engles describing it in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific is that as you dissolve class relations you remove the previous purpose of government, which was to enforce class roles through, for instance, enforcement of private property rights. As the “Administration of People” becomes unnecessary, the government is relegated to “Administration of Things” which moves it away from controlling people, and let’s it “melt away” as it’s remaining functions become less “governmental” and more of just managing logistics of things.
Sort of. You remove the classist aspects of previous society. Socialism itself emerges from Capitalism, and Communism emerges from Socialism. When I say Communism has a government, I very much mean there would still be laws, social workers, central planners, administrators, elections, even police, but not the elements of previous class society like Private Property Rights.
This is why Marx specifically describes this process as “whithering away.” He is not arguing that the government will dissolve itself, this argument has been levied against AES countries falsely. Instead, it is through lack of maintenance that these aspects erode over time, like how the Monarchy in the UK is vestigial, or how there are no longer streetlamp lighters. As technology and society progresses, what once was considered necessary makes itself obsolete and fades.
This is the core of dialectical materialism, ie a tree contains within it elements of its past as a seed and elements of its future as an older and eventualy dead tree, everything is a transformation of its previous self.
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Meme says far left, not left-leaning. Left-leaning is cool. Far left are fucking idiots.
I’d love to hear your answer to his question, you forgot to answer it.
It was the wrong question, dumbass. Left-leaning people don’t use purity tests.
Why are you calling me a dumbass? Are you angry? You forgot to answer his question. There are no wrong questions, maybe some you don’t want to answer. Every group uses some form of purity test.
Calling you a dumbass because you’re a fucking dumbass. No other reason. It’s not a difficult concept, but then again you would have trouble with it.
Not only are you wrong, you’re a total prick about it lmao
I mean, the only groups using purity tests are shit stains like tankies and terfs, they of course are SOOOOOOOOOoooooo… left they routinely work with literal neo-Nazis (hint they arn’t left wing at all)
Just matching the energy. But also, no I’m not wrong.
💎exacta-mundo friendileeno
The key being what constitutes being an asshole, and what you allow yourself to do to someone once the label can be pasted onto someone. It’s really the same thing seen through different gross stereotypes - they could literally say the same thing.
That’s not to say there aren’t very real differences between parties, but they aren’t extreme sides of a one dimensional line (or vague notions in a two dimensional mapping) which is basically a propaganda tool for the ego.
It’s funny. I have a blog post from Ken Arneson who talks about “The Right to be an Asshole” and here’s how he defines an asshole:
An asshole is a selfish person whose selfishness causes foreseeable indirect collateral damage to the people around them.
He goes on:
Assholes take risks that provide upside to themselves, but transfer the downsides of those risks to other people.
But the true test case for the limits of freedom is the asshole. Philosophically speaking, assholes walk the line between intentions and consequences. Assholes form the boundary between freedom and control.
Assholes don’t intend to do direct harm. They just don’t think about, and/or care about, and/or believe, and/or comprehend, that their actions can or will have negative consequences for other people beyond their direct intentions.
He goes on to recount the tale of COVID Patient 31 from Seoul, South Korea. Shortly after receiving her diagnosis, she decided to seek comfort at church. Hundreds of deaths and thousands of infections were traced back to her through contact tracing. So, now we come to intentions vs. consequences. Patient 31 wasn’t intending to make anyone sick or die, she was merely seeking comfort through faith. Any reasonable non-asshole could have told her and probably did tell her, that attending church while infected would cause others to be infected and possibly die. How should this asshole be judged? If we judge her by her intentions, then she’s as much a victim as anyone. But if we judge her by her consequences, then she’s a mass murderer.
So the question we have to ask as a free society is: What the fuck do we do about assholes?
Assholes have a very clever trick that allows them to keep being assholes.
If you try to stop them from being an asshole, they will declare you to be an asshole who, although perhaps intending to prevent some bad thing from happening, causes harm by denying some very fine people, who have no intention of harming anyone, their freedom. So who’s the real asshole here, anyway?
Socialism is literally transferring all risk to other people. Nice try though.
no, socialism is transferring everything to the people, the current not-socialist capitalist model already transfers all the risk to the people, but keeps the gains to the few
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Why is he downvoted? One is not an asshole if one is just too dumb to get what they are causing. The problem is that we not educate our children good enough so that they not fail to get what makes sense and what not.
But as long as we have stupid religious fanatics in power, we are doomed. Fuck Religion!
Religion has done something very clever, too. Christianity in particular has, through some means, found a way to divorce actions from character, as opposed to viewing one’s actions as a reflection of their character. They see good and evil as things that someone is instead of what someone does.
You ever notice how suburban white Karens clutch their pearls when called racist? Well, consider what I just said about their view of evil. Now, make “racism” == “evil”. By calling one racist, you have effectively called them evil, and they most certainly do not view themselves as having an evil character.
Or how, when doing evil deeds, they don’t see themselves as being evil despite their actions? Or when someone does a good deed, they accuse that person of being evil?
It’s just intriguing how they’ve pulled off this alchemy.
You confused me a little with that text 😅
What the fuck do we do about assholes?
Simple. Dicks fuck assholes. Its necessary, but the problem is they get shit all over the place!
Hope the left sees that there are assholes turning to nice people if you take away the fear right-wing media puts on them.
Left-wing out-group: Everyone, especially other leftists
I mean, it doesn’t have anything to do with the ideology, but the far left is famously like that.
I don’t usually use this expression, but you might need to touch grass. I pretty regularly hang out with far left people and other than debates over personal philosophy we’re all pretty chill. The internet is not an accurate representation of any actual social dynamics.
All my liberal homies smoke weed and shoot the shit and try to vote for people who don’t want to kill outgroups. So agreed, he needs to touch grass.
The ones I’m thinking of would not appreciate being called “liberal”.
Well, I meant my lefty friends. If you look at my comment history, I’m not much a liberal myself, but I don’t consider tankies on the left. I consider them authoritarian fuckbags that will say anything to get power. Just like authoritarian fuckbags on the right.
I consider them flat Earth theorists that weren’t right-wing enough for the normal conspiracy pipeline. The Stalin stuff is pretty much just decoration.
I’ve seen plenty of anarchist gatekeeping, too, although when you haven’t organised in the first place there’s less to split.
Yup. That’s some truth.
TBH there’s barely a center-left where I live, even, so you’re right that I wouldn’t know. However, the history of real-world Western socialist organisations doesn’t inspire confidence that it’s any different.
to be fair, tankies arn’t left wing, they fully support the most Draconian right wing solutions to everything, but pretend that their führer isn’t evil or something.
Anarchists are in this picture too. Gatekeeping about who’s anti-authoritarian enough is one example.
I mean, they have a point, you literally can’t go “but Lenin created vanguardism” as a reason why the all powerful single party state supposedly controlled by the “will of the people” and get upset when people call you out for being an authoritarian.
Anarchists gate keeping tankies isn’t some moral wrong, it’s just learning from history, because they would rather work with literal Nazis/ ethno-fascists than with an anarchist, the anarchists were the first to be shot by all the fascists, German, Romanian, Italian, or Soviet.
Yeah, but even if you allow that, they’ll gatekeep each other over dietary systems, for voting or not voting, over which economic systems are too market, over who was on the right side of a personal falling out, for believing in rules of any kind and on and on. There never is an end to it.
I don’t know who you’ve been hanging out with, but anarchists don’t care if you’re vegan or not, and generally their issue isn’t with markets, it’s with the system giving all the power to a small group of feudal lords, but I think the issue is that you only know anarchists by shitty online memes, maybe you should go get in contact with your local lawn dealer
Sure. All the anarchists fucking up for the last 150 years don’t count. You folks in this thread swear there’s different, cool ones; they’re just conveniently invisible.
and generally their issue isn’t with markets, it’s with the system giving all the power to a small group of feudal lords
And yet, pretty much none of them like ancaps. Mutualists or whatever other in-between are prime targets for purging from your not-a-political-party.
