I just noticed that one of the news communities here discourage the use of least biased/centrist news sources and I saw some people who put that they hate centrists in their bios.
All is that is kind of weird to me and does not make sense, as I thought that all sides should encourage ideas from centrists and least biased sources.
Is there is something that I miss here?
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TL;DR because I get the feeling that investing any more energy here is a waste of time:
and
(E: one of the main things OP seems to be missing is that capitalism is just as much a system of oppression as racism, sexism, and the rest are)
Yep, even MLK was saying it decades ago:
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
For some reason I don’t think OP will ever read that letter tho…
They are reading the replies, but from their replies they just don’t care about their own question. They’re just a debate me chud.
Yup, I saw their one reply, which is why I edited mine lol
Account is 3 days old, and of course OP couldn’t resist implying this is a new account after their old one was deleted/banned in that little blurb no one fills out
They’re not here for genuine discussion
Politics is not as simple as black and white.
You could support the left wing on good ideas and support the good right wing ideas when they make sense and still fight injustices.
Exactly which “good right wing ideas” are you referring to? Criminalizing LGBTQ? Ending elections? Killing the immigration system? Shoveling money at the rich?
- Stopping illegal immigration?
- Reduce government spending?
- Lower government control that harm the competition for small companies?
In reality:
- Persecuting brown people, and breaking the system to make legal immigration impossible
- Only applicable to things that help the poors, not applicable to billion-dollar military boondoggles or handouts for corpos
- Legalize union busting and selling sawdust as food
not applicable to billion-dollar military boondoggles or handouts for corpos
You asked what good ideas to which he responded limiting government spending. Then you rebuke the notion that limiting wasteful spending is a fundamental good idea by criticizing politicians for not doing it in military boondoggles or with corporate welfare. Those are critiques of politicians not the ideas, as those negative examples are when the idea isn’t applied.
I agree that we should curtail wasteful military spending and corporate welfare. But in advocating for those you yourself advocate for the idea of limiting government spending.
My point is that the right doesn’t care about actually reducing the deficit, they make noises about it when a Democrat is in office but the second they get power it magically disappears. It’s just an excuse to be awful.
Remember Trump’s big tax bill? 10 TRILLION in extra debt, mostly to cut taxes for the rich. What did he cut? A few million worth of stuff that actually helps people.By your logic someone can say they’re voting for trump.to.make America great again, and you’d expect people to take that on face value and pretend it’s an honest position.
Like, I don’t know how to break this to you, but fascists lie about a lot shit, most of what they say are lies.
So demanding people pretend they’re not lying, won’t get you honest discussion, because that’s not what you’re doing.
If you don’t think there’s trump stans out there who believe trump will do just that you need to touch grass.
What is the lie there? That they actually picking a candidate who they want to make the country worse? The blunt truth is that to them the policies you don’t like are good ones.
Insisting otherwise simply fuels polarization which furthers radicalization.
I’ve heard different reasonings.
One is that the baddies don’t call themselves the baddies. Apparently, there’s some right-wingers who refer to themselves as “centrists”, because they pretend that their position is entirely normal.
The other reasoning is that the leftists perceive right-wing rhethoric as so objectively bad that someone saying they have a political opinion and that opinion is in the middle, because both sides are valid, to them just means that person is being ridiculous.
Mind that the meanings of “left” and “right” and even “center” varies a lot between countries, so it depends a lot on the context.
Mind that the meanings of “left” and “right” and even “center” varies a lot between countries, so it depends a lot on the context.
This is what always confuses me from my UK perspective - the idea that the Dems are on the ‘objective’ (for want of a better term) left seems pretty problematic, so I would tend to think of them as being towards the centre ground, or even slightly to the right of it.
It doesn’t appear that the US has any politically influential or significantly consequential left wing party at all, unfortunately (and the UK is only marginally better to be fair).
As a result when it comes to determining which American party gets to sneeze for the next 4 years, the Dems are the only palatable or at least sane option I can see, if the rest of us are to avoid a really nasty cold. If nothing else, they seem like functioning adults.
I can see why many people would want to throw up their hands and reject both major parties, but I can’t really see it as a ‘centrist’ position, only as one to take if you are either further to the left or right of the Dems/GOP respectively.
Not really sure where I’m going with this tbh, just a brain dump.
I certainly agree with those in this thread who are giving examples of clear binary moral choices like civil rights, abortion rights and so on. There isn’t really any middle ground to take on them and anyone claiming to do so just seems disingenuous to me.
That said, I do still think compromise is an worthy aim in some areas - but only on issues which are not so clearly divided.
Anyway, please don’t elect Trump again. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Don’t shape your world views or perception of reality on what you read on Lemmy.
Depends on how you define “centrist”. Most lemmy users would call me a centrist. Most Americans would call me a radical leftist.
I vote democrat and believe in sustainable immigration, progressive tax rates, single payer system, abortion, and a lot of other democrat policies. I have been called a fascist because I also have a deep understanding of history and have spent a significant amount of my studies and spare time reading about Western European/American history from 1600-1950.
Any general survey will help you grasp why capitalism (not mercantilism, feudalism, or cronyism) is the most ideal system for general overall personal freedom. But that makes me a fascist.
Also, people get upset when I say things like if you are against British occupation of India, then you are against women’s rights and the rights of the working class. And while colonialism was tragic for some (mainly upper class men in the countries being colonized) it helped end slavery in Africa, which was started and perpetrated mainly by Africans and middle eastern Muslims. You cannot deny that evangelical Christianity ended slavery in western democracies and most of Africa/Middle East.
Also, ask yourself things like is Hong Kong better under Chinese rule, or colonial rule by the British. Ironically, the British empire was more an accidental empire that they stumbled ass backwards into. They actually didn’t want to manage the colonies and preferred to just “find the ruler… trade with ruler… the end” but because of their advanced tech were often asked by those rulers to help take enemy tribes if they wanted To continue trade.
That’s just my personal opinion, but centrists are often enablers of right-wing extremists/fascists. Since they don’t really have their own opinion and political stance, they just kinda take the average of the left and the right-wing. This starts to become a big problem, when the right suddenly radicalizes, and the centrists now also move further to the right.
Since they don’t really have their own opinion and political stance, they just kinda take the average of the left and the right-wing.
I don’t agree. As I said in other comment I consider myself as a centrist. And my view on the world is a reasonable one (in my opinion). I’m pro same sex marriage, abortion, women rights, same salary for the same work for both genders, public health care and education. But I’m also against unchecked illegal immigration, pretending to be woman so you can win in sports and social handouts. Why does it make me a target for right wingers and not left wingers?
I don’t like the left-right political spectrum. It’s not particularly good for explaining a more complicated political stance (e.g. like yours or mine). I see centrists as those who don’t really have any opinion, not people who agree with some left-wing and some right-wing ideas. I would definitely describe myself as a leftist, because I agree with almost all basic leftist concepts, but there are other ones that I strongly disagree with. But I’m definitely nowhere near the political right wing, as even though I might agree with a few right-wing concepts, I absolutely despise of their fundamental ideas. But unfortunately I see various centrist parties in different countries that shift further and further to the right, because right-wing populists are gaining momentum and coming up with dumber and dumber, radical ideas.
I don’t like the left-right political spectrum.
Couldn’t agree more.
I think we have similar views on the problem. The difference is how we define “centrist”. I agree that parties painting themself as centrist tend to lean right. But I was talking about my views and opinions. I’m far from turning into right-wing nut.
Removed by mod
Why not supporting illegal immigration, social handouts and calling a guy in a dress a man doesn’t make me a target for left-wing nutters?
Wow with a response like that it’s almost like you are maybe being intellectually dishonest with your arguments huh.
Why? Is it because I did the same thing you did but my response did not meet your standards?
You’re the one that made the statement. You said your opinions make you a target for left wing people, which is unsubstantiated, and not a target for right-wing people. If you can’t back that up then why did you make the statement? When I asked you about it you deflected. So excuse me if I am somewhat suspicious as to the honesty of your arguments.
Could you quote (with a context) what I wrote that made me dishonest? I have a feeling that you are nitpicking few words from my whole comment and try to make me look bad.
“Centrist” is a phony identity. It’s a put on, like journalists who pretend to be “objective”.
The whole thing is a reification of the concept of political “spectrum”.
Self identified centrists are usually people who’ve only been recently engaged in politics. They imagine themselves as neutral arbiters; the consumer that chooses the best ideology. They represent themselves as above politics, when in reality they’re operating on an elementary understanding.
Politics is values. The left values equality while the right values hierarchy. No human being has ever valued the midpoint between hierarchy and equality.
Centrists tend to advocate a middle view, hard to have a middle view for eradicating trans people, for one obvious example.
Im going to get skewered for this… I just assumed that the dislike of least-biases media was a reflection of how people (generally) don’t like their world view challenged. It is easy to see that on the right - because I’m an outsider. It may be less easy for me (and others) to see from the inside.
“The left” on Lemmy is unfortunately dominated by an extremely rigid and pretty outdated brand of Marxist-Leninism which tends to reject nuance and compromise in order to “protect” their extreme and reactionary stances on a number of issues. These types run some of the biggest news and politics communities and swing the ban hammer very freely.
Without getting too into the political science weeds, more contemporary views on leftist philosophy essentially holds that every anti-capitalist framework kind of boils down to various degrees of harm reduction within various material scarcity models. MLs don’t like this because it pokes a lot of holes in their revolution fetish and denies them the fan service they crave. This is why they almost seem to hate liberals and centrists more than actual fascists and right wingers. Because the right gives them purpose, righteousness and validation, whereas liberals give them difficult questions.
bcuz they’re stinky doo doo heads
All news will be biased, but a news source that doesn’t make it’s bias clear (probably for general status quo) can be harder to pick out where it’s bias is influencing what it says, or doesn’t, and how it says it and the weight it gives to what.
To hit at the root of your question: most people further left than Centre Left want to see large systemic change to the systems we live in. Centrists are generally happy with the systems in theory and think that they need small tweaks for better results, not wholesale root and branch change to economic structures.
Is there is something that I miss here?
Lemmy is a left-wing echo chamber. I consider myself as a centrist. I’m pro same sex marriage, abortion and few other lefties things. But once I say that the unchecked illegal immigration is a problem I get called a fascist, racist and whatever it’s trendy on the left side.
That’s not being centrist in today’s political landscape. This is basically where Democrats currently are.
Remember the border bill was shut down by Republicans.
I’m not from US and I have no idea what border bill is.
So you have absolutely zero idea what anyone is talking about?
And you don’t understand why people assume things when you weigh in without understanding anything about situation…
But you don’t understand why that’s happening?
As I said, I’m not from US and have no idea what border bill is. I was talking in a global context, not local, aka US. I know that nitpicking is a way to sway argument but in this case it’s a swing and miss.
Oh ok …
You’re one of those people who intentionally misunderstand things to get act self righteous about it…
Yeah. Have fun with that fart_pickle
Yeah, because the US is the centre of the world…
Maybe in the U.S. where there’s only a binary bipartisan system, but in most places that’s very much a centrist attitude of right-wing economic values with left-wing social values.
I’m sure you understand this, but for others who don’t, the narratives around immigration in right wing media are pretty dishonest and manipulative, which is why many people are instinctively suspicious of the entire conversation.
The reality is that every immigrant in the US, illegal or otherwise, actually contributes positively to GDP. The actual negative consequences of immigration are, in many ways, imposed by the regulation framework. If the US allowed every person to cross the border access to a legal path to citizenship, it would arguably fix almost every single issue which is associated with a large population of people who live outside the law. It would largely incentivize good behavior and cultural integration while reducing the economic forces which push people towards criminal activity.
I wasn’t talking about US immigration issues. I don’t live in the US and I wouldn’t express my opinions about it. I was talking about EU issues - rapes, stabbings and general increase in crime. And I’m not taking this out of my ass or nut case media (which is worse than my ass). I’m looking at statistics and try to be as unbiased as possible.
Why do you think immigration is only a huge deal in election years? No one even talks about it unless there’s an election coming up or unless it’s Fox News complaining about Dems.
As I said in my comment above. I’m not from the US and I have no idea what’s happening with your borders.
so brave of you to stand up and support the position that ‘everything getting worse is good, actually.’
What many comments miss is the fact that the “left-right-spectrum” is way to simple to describe the modern political landscape. If you want to place a range of opinion into whatever direction, you will end up with contradictions.
Right-wing extremists nearly always identify as “centrist.”
And call people who want healthcare like every other 1st country “communists”
Check my other comments in this post and call me a right-wing…
I don’t agree. As I said in other comment I consider myself as a centrist. And my view on the world is a reasonable one (in my opinion). I’m pro same sex marriage, abortion, women rights, same salary for the same work for both genders, public health care and education. But I’m also against unchecked illegal immigration, pretending to be woman so you can win in sports and social handouts. Why does it make me a target for right wingers and not left wingers?
Yep, conservative pretending to be centrist. See the left actually has empathy for people, which you clearly lack.
Please, explain like I’m 5 how do I lack empathy for the people.
Hey pickle, I get the feeling that the conversation happening here is about a specific scenario that you aren’t personally involved in. No need to take offense.
I’m not taking an offense. I see that the discussion is going towards US political landscape but I think the issue is more global. We as the people are slowly losing the ability to compromise and fall into 1-or-0 narration.
It’s hard to compromise when one side wants more than anyone to roll back basic human rights.
Left-wingers identify nearly everyone who doesn’t agree with them or doesn’t share their delusions as “right-wing extremists”.
So on the right, you have people who don’t want an entire subset of the population to exist. On the left, you have those people who are fighting for the right to exist. Tell me where a centrist falls in this situation. How can you meet in the middle?
You could be fine with the people existing but differ in how to correct past or systemic injustices.
Or let’s say you think the prices of some things should be set by supply and demand, but you’re against gouging in emergencies and think some basic necessities (food, water, medicine) should have price controls.
There’s plenty of middle ground, and the people who say you’re with us or you’re for the Nazis may have forgotten what the Soviet victory meant for Eastern Europe.
Great, but as to the point about wanting huge swaths of the population to cease to exist? You know, the actual question the OP asked.
Who is the OP here? Because I can’t see from the post itself or this comment thread who is arguing that.
So on the right, you have people who don’t want an entire subset of the population to exist. On the left, you have those people who are fighting for the right to exist. Tell me where a centrist falls in this situation. How can you meet in the middle?
Here’s what I wrote in response:
You could be fine with the people existing but differ in how to correct past or systemic injustices.
Someone might be viewed as centrist if they were in favor of civil rights but have some reservations about affirmative action.
If your argument is simply that anyone who thinks gays have the right to exist is left and not a centrist, I think your definition is not aligning. People say Democrats in the US are center-right. Many Democrats support gay rights. So therefore they are left?
Get out of here with nuance and reason only blind hate allowed. /S
Libertarian Minarchist
What are these left-wing “delusions” lmao
Here’s a delusion: Maduro is right to suppress free speech and association because he needs to keep the right from retaking power in Venezuela.
I don’t think this is at all something leftists in general think and I see a lot of them calling out what’s going on in Venezuela right now as large human rights violations. This is pretty much only something I see said by tankies (which is a small fraction of leftists).
Very good point. People online like to read one comment from someone and put them in a group then prescribe the values of that individual to the entire group.
Like they read a disingenuous comment from a far-right person claiming to be a centrist, and then they hate on all centrists? I could see that.
So any left-wing delusion I post can be dismissed as “not all leftists?”
