idk man I just need to vent i guess
my employer “provides” health insurance in exchange for my time and labor, and for that great privilege they take $600 out of my paycheck every month (covers me, my wife, and our 1yo son)
that’s half our monthly mortgage payment; it’s 2/3 our monthly grocery bill
why?
“You should be grateful, peasant. That’s a good looking kid you got there. It would be a shame if she got sick. What were you saying, again, I just got a notice about a stock price increase.”
As an employer I would LOVE to be shed of this system. I have no reason to be involved in the health care of my employees, and given the state of health care in America there is literally no upside for my business. It’s all bad.
Unfortunately our system requires it, though. If I didn’t offer health care and instead just increased the base salary I wouldn’t be competitive. People would think I was trying to pull a fast-one on them, and few people in America know how to get health care on their own. It’s a mess.
Well the problem is that you are viewing it from a “normal person” vantage… you need to think of your employees as indentured servants, basically slaves you don’t get to actually whip.
Once you get the proper Capitalist vantage point, you realize you can use this “benefit” to squeeze the life out of your employees, specially any of them with Chronic conditions or just a family, as they are hostages to the Health Care you provide!
Our “lords” have already told us why things are the way they are if you look at the “reasoning” behind why the Senate let the child tax credits expire.
“People wouldn’t have an incentive to work.”
They literally use healthcare to chain you to a job. I have 3 coworkers that I know of off hand that have all said they literally are only working here for the health insurance…
This system can go to hell.
“People wouldn’t have an incentive to work.”
That is just their attempt at rationalization. The real reason is much simplier: money, money, money. Lobbyists, Super PACs and the donor class own our politicians. The rich pay for their political campaigns and bribe our politicians in some interesting and creative ways. For example, giving a politician a million directly is illegal, but if he writes a book and then you have the SuperPAC buy a million copies of the politicians book that is somehow legal.
Can PACs accept foreign money? Or does a politician have to run a little SPAC scam to accept that?
“People wouldn’t have an incentive to work.”
As someone who lives in a place with universal healthcare, I would like to tell these people that many people here still work.
You know, food and shelter are also good incentives.
Hell, luxuries are all that are needed to work. If all my basic needs were taken care of I would still work because I like to travel and drink.
Extra painful that the current system is biased towards large employers. Easier to absorb that overhead if the business is large.
That’s right. For a company greater than 50 employees the insurance companies charge a group rate that is the same for everyone. Fewer than 50 and each employee is billed on their and/or their family’s merits.
Because I have fewer than 50 employees, most of my family employees use their spouse’s insurance from larger company than mine. And there’s little I can do about it.
For my small business I’m just as screwed over as the employee. If I hire a guy I can’t (and don’t want to) ask him him or her health questions, but because I pay half of my employee’s insurance I’m hiring with an unknown cost component. That employee might have a costly pre-existing condition for all I know.
The fact that insurance is provided through employers in the US is strange. Other products are purchased directly. Presumably there’s some advantage a sort of collective bargaining, but it doesn’t seem to work out that way for this, in part because the employees aren’t really part of the bargaining and in many places employees needs are too diverse to reach am agreement that works well for everyone.
Better solutions aren’t coming any time soon. You can possibly make some better choices though. Although, not participating in the health insurance is borderline line crazy, dental and vision plans don’t make sense for a lot of people. I would pay more for my dental plan than I pay to visit a dentist, including two annual cleanings, periodic x-rays, and infrequent work like cavities - basically the care you need to maintain tooth health. I don’t get the dental plan. You can figure out your own out of pocket costs and see if a dental plan works for you. Going to a dentist that is not in an insurance network is the way to go when doing this. Offices in network are required by the insurance company to charge exorbitant fees to out-of-network customers (the dentists don’t get the same pay from the insurance company though). So say a normal dentist charges $200 for a cleaning. A dentist in a network would be required to charge $400 or something nuts. If a patient is in network, it will say $400 on the EOB, and that the customer is responsible for $50, making it look like the customer saved $350. The insurance company only gives the dentist $150 though, so the dentist gets $200 anyway, the customer really only saved $150. The insurance company gets a bunch of money in annual fees from the employer.
You can see if it makes sense for you. Not everyone will be in the same situation, and maybe it doesn’t eork out. If you have an option for an FSA or something similar, this option is even more attractive, since all those expenses can be paid from untaxed income, whereas the money taken out of your paycheck to cover insurance is after tax I believe.
It’s a weird situation caused by WW2. Due to wage laws, higher wages couldn’t be offered. So they started to offer insurance. It caught on and became the standard.
It’s caused by both major parties being assets to the billionaire class, and working for them, against us.
Good point about dental costs. But insurance is just that, a plan in case you need more than the usual care, so paying a bit more might be worth it.
However, dental insurance specifically I feel is a racket, as it seems the more costly the procedure, the less percentage you get covered. When major dental costs are cheaper to fly to other countries and get them done than to use insurance in the US, something is wrong. I haven’t gotten my issues taken care of for years because I ran into that roadblock where I simply can’t afford to pay “my share”, even though I pay in plenty to the family coverage for everyone else.
FSA is a bit of a racket too. If you have a set plan in place and use the money correctly, it does work. Most people don’t look at it that hard though, and set aside an amount assuming it can be used as needed, later discovering that some things can be used from one part, while others can’t until a part is paid out, much like a deductible. I think it works well for those needing regular medical help, but if you don’t…you lose a chuck of money, with only a bit rolling over for a few months.
In short…health care shouldn’t be this hard and complex. It’s made that way for profit.
All insurance is paying to reduce risk, which is why I said it would be borderline crazy to not have general health coverege - that’s a lot of risk. Dental insurance for the most part covers routine costs, not high risk scenarios. Things like oral cancer are covered by more general plans. So I think largely I agree that dental insurance is a racket. However, I’m sure it makes sense for at least some people so it’s hard to make a blanket statement that no one shoud have it.
I pay the same and it covers next to nothing. I’m done paying my medical bills. If they want money I’m insured figure it out with them and don’t bother me. I have insurance so my child can. If I could I’d have just them covered. It’s significantly cheaper for me not to have it
My options at my last 3 jobs have all been more than 1400/month.
Do you think your taxes would go up $17k per year if America got universal healthcare? I’m going to say probably not.
I’d gretly prefer universal healthcare.
It is definitely bullshit, but your employer isn’t a winner here either, they’re also paying out $600 a month for your $1200/month health insurance.
The real problem here is why the fuck does health insurance cost as much as housing in this country?
Or more. A lot more.
I pay $700/mon for a family for health only, not including prescriptions, dental, or vision
Employer contribution is $1600/mon
That’s insane
I’m surprised large companies haven’t pushed back on it.
I didn’t know much about that side of the insurance pyramid, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything about the companys part fighting it in the news.
It usually looks like cutting plans, and the adoption of high deductible plans
More like why do both cost so much? Housing is dramatically cheaper in the good countries.
Capitalism. 40% of Apple’s total revenue goes to shareholders just for existing. Latestagecapitalism is like having a severe tape worm infection. The rich take most of the wealth we create without doing any of the work
Leverage mattering more than value sucks.
The way capitalist free markets are supposed to self-regulate is by customers refusing to buy goods and services which are too expensive. But when the alternative to buying those goods and services is dying in the street, understandably people can’t reasonably refuse.
Some companies are self insured and merely pay a health insurance company to administer the plan. They take all the excess and dump it into an investment account where they can profit off of the excess. It’s possible that their employer is coming out ahead.
Line must go up or rich people angry.
The biggest kick in the balls is that insurance still doesn’t cover shit. There’s still co-pays, tons of things that aren’t covered, out of network, maximum use of services, and anything large will almost certainly be denied by default. The co-pays alone are often as much as the service should cost.
Health insurance is a parasite. Profiting (massively) by being a gatekeeper to good health is pure evil.
It’s call extortion, and it’s been around since the dawn of time. Some cultures have done something about it, but since The US was founded on selfishness and greed, it will probably never happen here (Universal Care, that is.)
Dr. Glaucomflecken’s Youtube Skit series on US healthcare has really shown me how fucked up it is…
Sure, the Canadian government is stealing my paycheque, yadda yadda yadda. Still my health, dental, life supplemental insurance plan costs $800/year and most routine stuff like checkup exams, basic drugs, basic procedures, is free or is in the tens of dollars that I need to pay.
I haven’t been to a dentist in 8 years. I’ve only recently been in a hospital because my back gave out and I was stuck on the floor. Dont let anyone take away that healthcare, dont become like us. This is misery for no reason. My fucken teeth ache.
Sorry to hear that bud. It’s the reason I have dentures. It’s literally cheaper to have all, or most, of your teeth pulled and buy dentures than it is to have 2 or more root canals and crowns. It’s outrageous, and obscene.
Its unnecessary, we have the technology and the means to just help.
I cracked off a piece of my teeth but it doesn’t like cause immediate pain and my last visit cost me several hundred dollars even with my “dental plan” that my employer didn’t provide me a policy number for. And I still need to save up for my wisdom teeth to be pulled cause they are rotting in my head and cause my jaw to lock up.
Yeah the world doesn’t realize how fucked the US is for health of its citizens.
Or more.
Just doing mine now (open enrollment time). No changes to what I had this year, but had a 20% price increase to just under $600.
My employer is paying $3200 for my coverage (family plan, to be clear). Companies should be in wide support of universal healthcare.
Housing costs more than $2000 a month now 😭
To be fair, health insurance is equally expensive in Europe. We just discount it a lot for low income families and above average pays a lot more to substitute that missing money.
health insurance is equally expensive in Europe.
Source?
My paystub :'( about 1k in germany
Then that doesn’t sound “equally expensive” if it’s discounted for everyone that needs it discounted.
Not when the option in the US is “then don’t have healthcare”
Full ACK :)
ACA institutionalized the health insurance industry as having some broad legally protected powers to fleece the American public. And there is no recourse or alternative besides getting healthcare outside of the country.
Pharma industry is the second parasite that enjoys similar legal protections.
Medical Community sold their asses but especially doctor types… Decent doctors don’t survive anyway, but this is standard for any industry. Worker needs protects if we expect them to do their job properly… Ain’t nobody got energy to battle the orphan crushing machine 40 hours per week
Then, we have federal government that’s essentially enabling all of this due to the above clowns capturing regime whores in congress.
This is the standard regime model and most industries are going this way if not already there…
Oil, banking… Tech is trying it too, the 🤡 companies “want to be regulated”
Corpos like having a blank check from the state to fuck the peasants.
It ain’t just US issues, apparently UK parasites are getting that spot quicker than the US nepo babies.
The fuckening will only gets worse.
It was already like that before the ACA.
ACA formalized the corruption. And price increases accelerated too.
Captive Audience. They can’t leave, metaphorically. Everyone should remember ACA was created by a Republican think tank, for exactly that reason. Extortion.
they can go to a foreign country and pay cash, and it will be cheaper with hotel and travel 🤡
but only the “better” people have the cash flow for such “operations” as always… so i would say that vast majority of American slave force in fact: can’t leave, physically.
I’m sure Trump’s concepts of a plan will fix all these problems
Sure. Let granny die in a ditch, just like the good ol’ days.
Here comes the political brainrot…
You do understand that these discussions can be had with out left right circle jerk?
Unfortunately, it can’t, because politicians in this country can literally be bribed by individuals and corporations to pass legislation in their favor. Studies have shown over and over again that Universal Healthcare is absolutely cheaper than paying premiums, but it will probably never happen. Because of greed.
best we got is ACA is which is legalized corruption and extortion.
nothing will change as long people vote for the regime.
You understand “both sides bad” perpetuates the rot? Of course I was just being sarcastic about the Dotard but if we’re ever going to get universal healthcare passed we need to drive the Wrong Wing out of Congress.
Both sides are bad in fact… You got a lot to learn how the US regime functions my dear.
Vote for either side is vote for the regime.
Vote for anybody else is to deny this regime legitimacy.
Fuck Putin.
No, vote for anyone else is to confirm the GOP’s corruption of democratic principles continues. Take one look at the third-party candidates and even entire “parties” that are actually GOP plants. Destruction of the whole system is their true goal because it makes a fascist takeover easier. Too bad you won’t get anything from them even though you’re helping them.
We have been suffering the two parties taking turns fucking us for decades.
Vote for either party is the vote to support this regime.
Vote for anyone else is letting the system know you are not playing.
“GOP wins” is not a fucking platforms mate… If y’all want people to vote for Democrats, make decmorats do something for the people.
This clowns can’t take proper position omnthe genocide… JFC
Why should we not call out the problem when we all want a solution? Conservatives have been the primary henchmen for the ultra-wealthy for generations now.
Neoliberals and Republicans are all conservative shitbags who have ruined our lives for profit. They are all worthy of death, according to some clever French revolutionaries.
Conservatives have been the primary henchmen for the ultra-wealthy for generations now.
Naive
Yes, you are, or disingenuous. You are part of the problem.
Mine is about the same for family coverage, and the shocking thing is that it’s pretty good relative to the market – my previous employer was about ~100/mo cheaper for an equivalent HDHP plan, but I’ve seen much, much worse.
Honestly, though, even more than the cost (having run the numbers, the tax I’d pay in a European country to cover similar services is about the same, all things considered) is the sheer level of friction that insurers inject into the healthcare system. You have to get a referral to a specialist even if you know you need to see one. You have to get insurance authorization for specialty treatments. You have to think about deductibles and out-of-pocket-maximums, and Lord help you if you start having complex medical problems around the end of the year and the maximums reset in the middle of your treatment!
We pay out of pocket for a direct primary care pediatrician for our kid (on top of his insurance, to cover any meds or emergencies) and the fact that there’s no insurance to deal with means that it’s vastly easier to get a hold of her to get a medical opinion whenever there’s a bad bump or a strange rash that needs a professional opinion. It’s shocking to see how things could be if insurance companies and PBMs and for-profit hospital networks hadn’t inserted themselves in between patients and doctors, with a sole eye towards making sure they pay out at little as humanly possible while maybe keeping patients alive in the process.
Insurance is extra expensive when you have a family in the US. I’m single and my monthly cost is less than $100 a month. Having a family is more expensive for everything.
But WHy dON’t YoUNg poPLE wANT tO sTarT a FaMILy?!?!
In the US during WW2 employers couldn’t keep employees because of wage competition. This made war production extremely inefficient and slow. The War Labor Board instituted wage ceilings for critical jobs. But, they allowed employers to compete with health benefits. Employment and healthcare became intertwined.
After WW2 the War Labor Board was dissolved and wage ceilings removed. FDR, who’d proposed and implemented The New Deal and led us through WW2, proposed the Second Bill of Rights aka the Economic Bill of Rights:
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Employment
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An adequate income for food, shelter, and recreation
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Farmers’ rights to a fair income
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Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
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Decent housing
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Adequate medical care
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Social security
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Education
This would’ve disaccociated employment and medical care. However, FDR was labeled a socialist and authoritarian, demonized. We the People bought into the propaganda.
That’s how it’s been for eighty years: The leftists propose the same platform FDR did. And, they’re told to shut up for disturbing the idiots running in fear of one bad choice or another. All that’s changed is the efficiency and effectiveness of the hegemony’s propaganda.
big government guy proposed big government solution to unintended consequence of bad decisions by big government, is confused when people don’t want more big government meddling.
the real problem here is that people forgot about what the issue was and how it happened, and years later are clamoring for government to “do something”. and extra unfortunately, at this point it may be too late for any solution other than letting government just take control of all of it; i can’t see any other way to get all the shitty government decisions and interventions rolled back.
The US incarnation of capitalism has obviously failed. I’m all for revolution. But, I’ve no doubt that the vast majority of society would willingly give up their freedom, once again. Humans have been doing the same thing for millennia.
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It’s likely 1/3rd to 1/2 of what the insurance actually costs.
Insurance numbers in the US are all made up bullshit numbers designed to funnell money from the working class to the rich.
The private insurance industry is going to price themselves out of existence eventually. People are going to realize they can save an enormous amount of money by having the government act as payer for their healthcare instead of corporations trying to turn a profit. Healthcare already does not lend itself to distribution via capitalism, you don’t show up to the ED and wave money around to bid on your bed. It should be based on need.
Still waiting for that. Been my hope since I went on this $250-500 a month health insurance journey during my first job in 2005.
As long as people are allowed to go into debt, this industry and others like it will exist forever
You could probably do better buying insurance off the ACA marketplace, even without premium assistance if your job didn’t offer insurance.
Your employer is likely paying another $600/mo for you as well, and singles/couples working for the company are actually subsiding your threesome.
The insurer-first system a stupid scheme that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
This is correct.
i get the feeling that society really doesnt want to spend the money to give people healthcare.
Well, at least here in the USA, we already are spending the money. Getting worse results than the rest of the world and spending more money on it. Because private health insurance is a joke and we’re all the punchline.
Most Americans want universal healthcare. The problem is that we have a broken and corrupt system where our politicians are bought and owned by the donor class and lobbyists
I “want” universal healthcare… but I know the government will screw it up. There is just no winning.
It’s 2 fold, one party doesn’t want to takeaway private insurance because of the donor money. The other doesn’t want “inferior” people to get health care.
A double edge sword unfortunately.
US-specific: The ACA (healthcare.gov) subsidizes healthcare insurance costs based on income. Especially in cases where you income is low this can be an awesome deal. Folks making $35k annually get stellar premium costs, deductibles, and out of pocket maximums. As income increases, the subsidies ramp down.
Unaffordable coverage: If your employer’s plan is considered unaffordable, you might be eligible for premium tax credits through the Marketplace. The affordability test considers the cost of self-only coverage and family coverage. For example, if your share of the premium for your spouse and children is more than 8.39% of your household income in 2024, their coverage might be considered unaffordable.
