There were so many Nintendo apologists when Yuzu was taken down because “Yuzu used actual nintendo source code, so that’s why they were taken down, it won’t happen to Ryujinx.” Yet here we are. Nintendo is by far the shittiest company when it comes to protecting their IP, because it’s all they have. Turns out, Mario is a fucking bootlicker
Well he is always saving the monarchy. Should have been kinda obvious 👑
Saving one monarchy from another.
Yeah but Bowser at least gives his subjects free healthcare. Sometimes even brings them back to life. When have you seen a skeletoad?
True. The only time we’ve seen a Toad’s skeleton is when they’re electrocuted in Mario Strikers Charged.
I don’t understand how people think getting rid of emulators is good. Having emulators is better as a consumer than not having them at all, since it can give gamers more ways to play their games and might incentivize Nintendo to add features to compete with emulators (think better res and fps, mod support, save states, no online requirement).
Because a subset of people are and always will be idiots. Remember: some people think unions exist to steal your money, socialism is communist dictatorship propaganda, and privatization of government services is good for everybody.
Nintendo fanboys are a special breed of stupid, arguing with them about Nintendo’s policies and anti consumer practices is just a wasted effort.
because it’s all they have
I’m not quite sure you fully understand what you said here, given your surrounding arguments. Nintendo literally cannot exist if they allow emulators without becoming just another Sony/Microsoft. And they cannot realistically compete against those two.
Yuzu did not use “nintendo source code”.
They simply hosted decryption keys in their repository. But that still was not the focus of Nintendo’s move. It was that Yuzu and its company profited directly from the release of The Legend of Zelda.
Makes sense, what was the focus on their move here?
Obligatory fuck Nintendo, but I also blame the selfish dumbfucks who keep posting videos of themselves playing unreleased games on YouTube and Reddit. If you want nice things contingent on having software which exists in a legal gray area, don’t openly poke the litigious hornets’ nest.
That’s inevitable though, blame them all you want those people will always exist
Guys quick a question. At the moment i have Ryujinx installed on my deck through Emudeck. Will it disappear with my next update???
Nah, Yuzu is still working fine on mine. Basically, if you had the emulator installed prior to the takedown, EmuDeck will continue to use it.
Which is honestly a pretty good argument for just installing every single emulator (even if you never think you’ll use them!) because they don’t really take up that much space, and you could potentially lose access to them if you never bothered before a takedown.
Historically, no.
When yuzu went down Emudeck was very specific that they will not remove any emulators that you have already installed.
And now I regret not copying their repo to our Forgejo instance.
I’m now pretty sure we got our last Nintendo switch game. I’m not going to buy out kids anything Nintendo anymore. They are the most recent RIAA.
You were buying Switch games but because of something unrelated to your gaming and purchasing habits, you’re going to stop your unrelated behavior?
that is typically how boycotts work yes.
Nestle isn’t poisoning their bottled water but some people still refuse to buy it.
Yup
I don’t even have a single Nintendo or game of any sort. My kids got dupped by YouTube and so now it’s either cry or pay for that shit…a few years ago… Today though, they are old enough to get pissed at things. I shall explain what Nintendo is doing so that they make better choices in the future.
What doesn’t make sense though is why now all of a sudden? They were content to buy Nintendo games up until yesterday, but the Ryujinx takedown, which was amicably agreed upon between Nintendo and the devs, that was the final straw? This just screams disingenuous en vogue Nintendo bashing to me.
People refuse to buy Nestle products because Nestle is a wildly unethical company and its behavior directly affects which products are available to purchase. Nintendo protecting their IP, while sucking for pirates, doesn’t violate any known ethical principle. Apples and oranges.
why now all of a sudden
It’s not new though, it has been happening for years. Selection bias might be skewing your view.
That was their point lol
This is arguably the tamest thing Nintendo has done recently, so it’s a weird final straw
I should have articulated my point better. I meant that this has been the “final straw” for some people for most of those steps along the way in the picture. If you look at the comments from then it’s often the same kind of thing you’re seeing right now. That’s why I mentioned selection bias, because there are actually lots of final straws happening over time, people just aren’t seeing those or weren’t around then.
Are you suggesting that no one is allowed to see Nintendo do a new bad thing and say “I’m no longer willing to give them my money”?
Not to mention there’s nothing ‘amicable’ about a massive corporation, infamous for their lawsuits, approaching a single programmer with a deal that is obviously the only way to avoid being sued, despite the fact that emulators are legal.
If someone purchases a Switch game they have every right to back it up and use an emulator to play it. Instead of strongarming these projects into submission, the ethical thing would be working with them to sell legal access to ROMs.
Never give Nintendo money.
These asstards really hate fun.
The SWITCH, is my last Nintendo product I will own.
The Steam Deck is the last nintendo console I’ll need
People think emulator protections in the law are stronger than they really are. Sony vs Connectix made emulation legal, but it wasn’t heard by the supreme court. PS1 games weren’t encrypted and relied on other methods like disc wobble to prevent piracy…so without proactively violating any measures you could just not include that check in your competing emulator and play retail discs without breaking any laws.
In steps the DMCA anti-circumvention laws for bypassing video game / console encryption measures, which is an even bigger untested minefield without precedent in favor of emulation. And since games are default encrypted on new consoles and arguably not subject to exemption (at least while still supported) it really might be a disaster to fight it.
Nintendo is a dick but it’s not in our interest or theirs to really push the boundary on the status quo. The get to slap suit whatever they want taken down, we get to play the emulation hydra game where it’s still legally grey.
Personally I don’t give a flying Fuck what the law says, breaking copyright is the only thing preventing the world from being more of a dystopian nightmare with subscription mice and trains that break down if you take them to a mechanic and I can’t wait for someone in china or India to take the Open source code and make a better emulator.
I care what the law says if it’s wrong.
I don’t much care of what is said, when it is just. I’m more concerned with those who claim to know the difference
If they had an actual plan or history of preserving games I’d not care about emulator development. But with the industry track record being so poor we need emulators if for nothing else for preservation.
So much culturally interesting data has already been lost to time which I bet future historians would absolutely love to have access to. The internet archive is missing much of the early internet, while old iPhone and Android apps are largely unable to be run even if you have the APK/IPA required,
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I will always say this in these “Nintendo shuts down beloved fan project” threads: why don’t the people working on these projects operate anonymously and release via torrent? I feel like I’ve been reading the same story for 20 years. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone at this point that Nintendo will come after you.
This is the first time they’ve been suing emulator developers.
Yeah! And they’ve been so cool and supportive of the gaming community thus far, <3 nintendo https://www.thegamer.com/a-snapshot-of-nintendos-convoluted-legal-history/
Because emulation is legal. It shouldn’t have to be hidden. This was taken through the courts in 2001 with the Sony vs Bleem lawsuit.
What appears to be happening is Nintendo is abusing its power and money to make threats of legal action that these groups just can’t afford to fight, even though they haven’t done anything illegal. It should be coming as a surprise that Nintendo is coming for them, because this is completely legal, and not some fan game using Nintendo IP (which is what they normally shut down).
That sounds like grounds for some kind of legal action. Antitrust? Class action? I don’t know the specifics of the best strategy for approaching it, but if Nintendo is showing a pattern of using their legal team to harass legally operating emulator developers that sounds like something that should be actionable.
From what u understood It’s a bit more complicated than that. Emulation is rather not illegal and in very thin ground.
This is like if a pedestrian gets struck by a car while on a crosswalk. Yeah, they were allowed to be there… but they should have looked both ways before crossing the street.
This is a case of people being idealistic rather than practical.
Incidentally, this is a perfect example, because the automotive industry ran a series of ad campaigns to change public sentiment after cars got more common and children and elderly citizens started dying in the streets.
Nintendo is working equally hard to change public sentiment against the innocent.
Source: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history
You’re talking about blame assignment, but I am instead referring to the fact that in both the Nintendo and the automotive example that somebody got smacked because they weren’t careful enough.
Somebody got smacked because they were told that this was a safe area to be in. Then they get hit, and are blamed for not being careful enough in the area they were told was safe to be in.
Like I said above, everyone coming through here is so obsessed with talking about blame and fault. That’s not what I’m talking about at all. I’m saying that if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently.
See, no mention of blame at all. How else do I need to spell things out for the extremely autistic and pedantic crowd here?
if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently
How do you not read this as blame? Or, is this not the same as “they had it coming, wouldn’t have happened if they’d been dressed in armour or hadn’t gone down that street alone” which is often known as victim blaming.
Oh, there’s a wiki article on that. It has a section on the thing you’re arguing about, with cars and pedestrians Neat. Maybe this is why people are talking about it.
ITT: people not understanding the difference between BLAME and OUTCOME and downvoting you because of it. Incidentally, I also read a thread earlier today that talked about declining literacy in adults…
Being right and being suddenly under a car are not mutually exclusive.
What Yuzu was doing was unquestionably illegal.
Legal in the US. I think this guy is in Brazil.
Is nintendo the source of the “come to brazil” meme? 🤔
The Sony verdict didn’t establish emulation as legal
At most you find that it established using mods/creating derivatives is illegal
And on the low end it found that using pictures from competitors in advertising as comparison isn’t illegal
Emulation might be legal, but it’s software specifically designed to run illegal copies of the games.
I dislike Nintendo, but I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development. They’re still selling many of their old games through their own store for their own emulators. They’re perhaps charging way too much for it and/or lock it behind a subscription wall, even if you ever bought the original copies. Absolute garbage business practice, but from the corporate point of view I can see why they go after emulators. Especially since it’s easier to take those down than trying to go after all digital emulator copies of the games (if not impossible).
They’re probably gonna try and set an example to scare off others trying to make new emulators too.
Edit: lol people really are shooting the messenger here.
Also, the amount of excuses that people have to make backups of their already purchased games is very weak. You damn well know that a vast majority of people don’t use it for such reasons, the amount of people that still own original copies, and also have the hardware to even extract software for personal use must be like less than a percentage of the entire community using emulators. They’re just people pirating games they never paid for. It’s very naive to assume otherwise.
It is made for various things like game development. When my company was working on remastering a GameCube game, Nintendo themselves handed us a devkit, and we used the dolphin emulator to play the original game and compare gameplay and performance.
I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development.
Your not being able to blame them is completely irrelevant. Nintendo can not like stuff all it wants. The question is if it is LEGAL. If it is, and it is, your defense of their actions is a defense of the argument that they should be above the law because they don’t like something, and that’s an absolutely TERRIBLE position to take. You don’t need to white knight for Nintendo. They have more money than God and taking up their fights for them against your own rights as a consumer is so far beyond Stockholm Syndrome that I don’t think we even have a word for it yet.
Feel like you failed to read and grasp what I said.
Never said I agreed with what they’re doing, I am not white knighting them. I frankly don’t give a shit what Nintendo does and doesn’t and what they’ll lose over it.
I was just stating an observation from a business point of view.
It’s also legal to own guns in some countries, doesn’t make it legal to use it to just shoot at anything, and it’s even more ridiculous to assume that everyone buying/owning guns has good intentions. There are many countries where owning a gun isn’t legal, as well as making copies of products you’ve bought, even for personal backup.
And to believe that people use emulation exclusively for their own backups is insanely naive.
If guns are sold legally, it means that there is the assumption that everyone buying them has good intentions.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe I didn’t grasp what you said, but reading your reply it seems like I grasped it fine.
Here’s the thing. People use emulators for piracy. That is also COMPLETELY and totally irrelevant to the discussion. The right to developing emulators is well-established, and game preservation isn’t even the most important consequence. The right to developing emulators is what allows virtualization that forms the backbone of server architecture, as well as running legacy code from old architectures on modern hardware, alleviating the need for thousands of man hours in rewriting tried and tested code. 20 years in the future, when the IoTs stupidity litters millions of homes with inaccessible, useless plastic garbage, emulation of no longer supported control units will be a panacea.
Nintendo is totally free to not like the law, but it is the law, and this pressure to shut down these projects is a flagrant violation of the developers’ legal rights, which regardless of the morality of piracy is a disgusting flouting of the legal system.
People use guns to murder, yes. But whether you or I think it’s correct or not, the law does not hold gun makers liable for the things their users do with them. We can’t just DECIDE that there are exceptions to the law and begin prosecuting or acting as if they are liable. That requires either a new law or an interpretation by a court to set a precedent - not lawyers sending a cease and desist to Smith & Wesson. That is a slippery slope to an absolutely nightmarish dystopia.
There is no justifying this in a “Well, I can see why they did it…” sense any more than in a murder case. The law is clear. The established rights of the developers are clear. The right to make a Switch emulator is NOT Nintendo’s right to give or deny like a trademark dispute or the ability to make a fan game. They don’t GET a say. The right to make an emulator is explicitly YOURS by LAW. And a giant corporation has taken their money and used it to violate established rights with threat of bankruptcy in violation of that established law. If you believe in the rule of law, no matter what you think of piracy, that should be utterly haunting.
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To be fair, it’s software specifically designed to run digital backups of what’s supposed to be personally owned media. It just so happens that it’s very easy to obtain a copy otherwise, but there’s nothing inherently illegal about it or the games.
Strong arming independent projects, and individual developers especially, that are very careful to not endorse that, effectively holding them accountable for others, is morally questionable at best.
From a theoretical point of view, emulators of modern consoles may actually be illegal. Under the DMCA, emulation for preservation is protected as a periodically-renewed exemption list defined by the library of congress. But, (paraphrasing) “creating or distributing any hardware or software device—or component of such—designed to circumvent DRM technology” is still illegal irrespective of any exemptions. A reasonable (and bullshit) interpretation of that means that any emulator which is capable of bypassing any DRM features (such as decrypting ROM using user-provided keys) is a violation under the act.
I say theoretical because it hasn’t ever actually been tested in a court. Nintendo v. Tropic Haze LLC nearly gave us the answer, but the latter chose to settle instead.
That may be the main reason why people use or even create emulators, but there are still legitimate uses for emulators. It’s like banning couples from riding the same motorcycle because two people on a bike is usually a robbery.
Nice metaphor, is it your original?
Is it illegal to copy your own Nintendo games?
It is not illegal to make backup copies for yourself of games you have purchased and own.
As shitty as it is, yes.
What do you think emulation is?
Copying your own copy of a game and using tools for compatibility is what we’re talking about, is protected, and already has the case law demonstrating so.
They’re still selling many of their old games
And yet many more that aren’t.
Nintendo didn’t put legal pressure on emulator devs for decades at this point, which made devs less cautious about preserving their pseudonymity.
Now it’s too late and they can’t stop Nintendo from finding out who they are and which mistakes they did at some point over the years.
Maybe a new generation of emulator developers will be more protective of their identity, by using hosting providers like Njalla or privacy networks like i2p. The latter would limit access (as it requires i2p), which isn’t desirable for most users.
While that’s true, it’s incredibly reductive to a baseline of “nintendo should win because they are powerful and others aren’t”
How many of these emulators were shut down through legal action or threat of legal action? I mean, the list goes on and on
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_2_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_3_emulators
https://www.ppsspp.org/
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_Vita_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_360_emulatorsOh right, this happened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment,_Inc._v._Connectix_Corp.
Nintendo is using every action possible to stop switch emulation, because, unlike other console companies, they don’t produce any advanced or specific hardware anymore, and they purely survive through their IP.
And because these are never finished projects. People can rant and rave about cloning the git all day, but without active, knowledgeable developers with the knowledge of the original dev team, these projects are dead. It’s not about using the emulators as they exist today… it’s about continuing to keep them working going forward. Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch’s life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo’s archives.
Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch’s life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo’s archives.
Somebody will archive it, for two reasons: 1) data hoarders and 2) hacked Switches.
Sure, it will be as playable as it is right now, right as the project shuts down. Any updates or improvements? Any new games? Only if someone else takes up the mantle and risks having world police nintendo suing them
I assume emulator development will continue eventually. Who knows when that will be, though.
The thing that sucks is that I’m in the middle of a couple of games, so if something upgrades and Ryujinx isn’t compatible, I’m hosed.
Fuck Nintendo. All they have done is ensure I never buy one of their products again.
Same! In fact, I have a switch, but tears of the kingdom was the last thing I bought for it.
I’ve skipped everything else. It’s not worth supporting an evil company.
Knew that was coming, at some point… I wonder if anyone grabbed copies of the git repos.
Archive org has it
If anyone has the git repo downloaded, they have a copy of it (from when they last pulled)
I’ve seen a few floating around.
As with Yuzu, I won’t be buying any more switch games. I’ll still be playing switch games, and so will my friends, but we won’t my buying them.
Honestly, I’ve lived watching emulators for decades. They can come and go and there’s always more, even ones that aren’t forks. Just today I was reminiscing on my first emulators, zsnes, no$gmb and nesticle. Y’all remember the peaceful zsnes snowfall? Good times.
I used all of those. Nesticle had that bloody hand as a cursor. Also, Genecyst for Sega Genesis/Master System emulation.
Remember when emulation really blew up after UltraHLE successfully ran Ocarina of Time? That was when I first became aware of emulators (IIRC, it was front page news on IGN). Nintendo filed a lawsuit and took UltraHLE down, but we all know how that turned out (at this point, I believe I’ve lost count of how many N64 emulators were developed in the ensuing years). This recent Yuzu/Ryujinx drama is just history repeating itself. Emulation will never die.
There’s a very very interesting story about nesticle but unfortunately I’ve forgotten it. Some kind of drama, a bit edge lord stuff, and I think someone died? It’s actually one of the first emulators, ever, though.
It was a very niche community back then though, long before IGN caught wind. Weird I only found out because of a crazy conspiracy theory uncle, though. Thanks for reminding me about UltraHLE, though!
I have a vague recollection about the Nesticle drama, but also don’t recall the details.
I know the emulator scene precedes UltraHLE by at least several years. Publicity around UltraHLE just made it somewhat mainstream, and Nintendo learned first-hand about the Streisand effect, lol!
Still on Flathub though.
Yuzu was like that soon after being taken down. I assume Flathub has some sort of delay.
Now and then I bought Nintendo games for my nephew. This stopped right now.
Teach your nephew about the evilness of Nintendo and why he shouldn’t support them anymore.
I mean. I understand the sentiment but I don’t think your nephew will understand 😅 you should keep buying games for your nephew bro. I’ll stop buying games in his place
I’m sure there’s plenty of other things they’d appreciate too. Maybe instead they could help them move over to PC even.
Get him a MIG!
the plane?
The Flashcart. But I’ll take the plane!
