cross-posted from: https://lemmy.crimedad.work/post/138601

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy,” said Biden privately, according to Woodward. “He’s a bad fucking guy!”

Reads like a bloody Onion article.

  • revolutionaryvole@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    1 month ago

    The US military-industrial complex does not need you to defend it.

    It might well be more complex than that, but you have every right to demand from your government to put its vast resources to use in order to tackle that complexity. Given the severity of the situation, I’d say you have a responsibility to.

    Seeing such a tragedy unfold and going ‘oh, my government probably has a good reason to keep funding the active genocide, I’d hate to give some extra paperwork to our bureaucrats by making a fuss!’ is very defeatist, to put it politely.

    • Soup@lemmy.cafe
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      25
      ·
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      Demand as much you’d like. It’s a right to do so. However the problem is, we have assholes that are withholding their vote because their unreasonable demands aren’t being met. And yes, expecting a nation to simply just… end an agreement is unreasonable.

      Because again- it’s NUANCED AND COMPLICATED.

      And therein is the problem.

      I’d love for just ONE of these people demanding we stop sending weapons to Israel to lay out a plan on exactly how to go about it. Because I’d love to see that! I’d LOVE to see it happen, because I HATE that it’s happening to begin with.

      I’m sure the pentagon, the White House and even Palestine would love to see that as well.

      But no. That won’t happen. Because it’s so much easier to just demand a thing you don’t understand, than it is to accept that what you demand is unreasonable in the context of what actually needs to happen for it to work.

      And therein lies my point.

      We ALL want that shit to stop. ALL of us. It’s a no brainer to want to end the supply of weapons to those that use them to harm innocent people. But saying “Look at me! I want the US to stop supplying arms to Israel! I’m a good guy! Give me internet points!” Isn’t helping anyone. I could do that shit all day. It doesn’t change anything.

      Provide a seamless and workable plan to end the supply or stop assuming it’s that easy. Because it’s easy to say a thing should be done.

      It’s MUCH harder to actually do it.

      • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 month ago

        I’d love for just ONE of these people demanding we stop sending weapons to Israel to lay out a plan on exactly how to go about it

        I’m pretty sure the answer you’re going to get is “1. Stop sending them 2. Profit”

        • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 month ago

          Pretty much:

          Canada joins the Netherlands, Japan, Spain and Belgium in suspending arms sales in the wake of Israel’s brutal military offensive in Gaza. Many other nations have said they will no longer purchase Israeli weapons.

      • XaiwahBlue@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 month ago

        I think the issue people arguing with you that you don’t seem to get is that not everyone does want it to stop.

        You seem blind to that reality that there is a large portion who arent even looking or talking that people are dying.

        Who think what is going on and continuing is fine, or even good or right. And those people are in the positions to even try to limit any of it, and wont.

        You’re not arguing honestly if you really claim the reason no one in power speaks against it is because it’s too hard? That seems really unlikely doesn’t it? “It’s difficult and we’re looking at legal options” and “we will continue to arm and defend them” are wholly different.

        • NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 month ago

          Soup is an absolute moron with a nuance fetish.

          Every matter must be super complex because it hasn’t been solved…failing to recognize not everyone wants the problem solved because they benefit from it not being solved. NUANCE!

          Either that or they’re a Zionist intentionally derailing conversion by finding new “parliamentarian says no” situations for why the genocide must continue.

          • sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 month ago

            Agreed. Soup is likely here to tire everyone out with his blather. He doesnt post anything in good faith and I doubt he beleives what he says. He is just a classic troll. Sad really. Best to block the user and move on.

        • Soup@lemmy.cafe
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          15
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          You entirely missed the point of everything I’ve said- whether it be on purpose or not, I’m done trying to explain this shit. It’s a pointless exercise in futility to even try and have a nuanced discussion here.

          • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 month ago

            You haven’t really said anything though. You just keep claiming “it’s complicated bro”. How? We’re reasonable people here, for the most part. If you can explain why it’s not simple, people might listen.

            • Soup@lemmy.cafe
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              1 month ago

              I’ve explained it already throughout this entire thread.

              • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                edit-2
                1 month ago

                No, you haven’t. You’ve repeatedly claimed that experts think pulling out of a 20 year conflict is complicated*, but haven’t provided the slightest insight into how that might be. In fact, you’ve admitted that you don’t know. If you put 1/10th as much effort into researching this instead of just making 20 appeals to authority and saying we can’t hope to understand it, you would know what’s complicated about it.

                * and I’m not saying it’s not complicated. But making 20 posts to this effect with no further substance has no value.

                • Soup@lemmy.cafe
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 month ago

                  It’s a lot easier to copy and paste a single response to each of you than to custom tailor it every time one of you respond. Especially since it’s the same argument over and over.

                  What do you think happens when America stops supplying Israel? Think they’ll just stop attacking Palestine?? They’ve already said that don’t really need America chipping in. And they don’t. So… when America just- stops sending them arms, the next bidder steps in. That’s what happens.

                  And that’s going to be either China or Russia.

                  And they wont have any restrictions like America does. (And before you say “what restrictions” I’d urge you to try and understand what’s involved in the pact). Russia and or China will absolutely allow them to decimate Palestine. And even help if necessary.

                  And if America doesn’t end up going to war with them over this, guess, who they’re all most likely turning their sights on once Palestine becomes a gravel pit?

                  This is just ONE example.

                  There are MANY others. Pay attention when the experts on the sublet discuss this. You’ll learn something just as I did.

                  And lastly…. What could be done, at best, is America might be able to leverage additional conditions. And if you’ve been paying attention- they’ve been trying to do just that this entire time.

                  Again- nuance. Understand it.

                  • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    1 month ago

                    Again- nuance. Understand it.

                    I do, don’t be smug. Come on now.

                    Anyways, thank you for providing concrete reasoning, maybe you’ll have convinced some more people now.

      • Womble@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        Its really not that hard, the US just has to lay demands down to Israel and follow through with them. You stop making things worse by doing X by Y date, if you dont we stop providing you one type of weapon you need least. If you dont do it by Z date you lose something more important. Repeat until they realise you’re not bluffing.

        The problem isn’t that its beyond the wit of man for the US to figure out how to use its immense leveage over Israel, its that it chooses not to.

        • Soup@lemmy.cafe
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          22
          ·
          1 month ago

          So I’m to assume you disagree with leading experts on the subject? Because NPR had them on a few mornings ago and they said exactly as I’m saying- it’s incredibly complicated and nuanced.

          But you seem to know everything. Perhaps you should tell them they’re wrong.

          I’m done with this. There’s no getting through to anyone here.