• FarFarAway@startrek.website
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    20 days ago

    My SO has a theory that if the group of people lived in a harsh environment, ie. having to work for what you had with no guarantee of food or safety, etc, it was common for women to work just as much as men. Such a society needed all hands on deck, so to speak. But, when we start becoming “civilized”, and things started getting made for us, (as opposed to an individual making it themselves.) Women and men start having diverging roles. Essentially, there’s just not enough work, so womens role turns into raising the babies, to fill the time. Eventually, for whatever reason, “civilized” society just forgot about the hard times and assumes women have always been there just to raise babies.

    Disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing. Maybe some random information that explain that women did “men” jobs too, once. Idk.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      20 days ago

      I promise you that there remains ‘enough work’ in early sedentary societies. The work, in fact, is endless - moreso than in a hunter-gatherer society, which is more reliant on circumstance than labor.

      Divergence of roles seems to be connected to control of social power. As men come to dominate one sphere (typically warfare, since the average woman in the pre-modern period is intermittently disadvantaged in that by several months of pregnancy numerous times throughout her life), that power imbalance is used to strip power from women in other spheres (social, economic, sexual, etc).

      • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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        20 days ago

        This was more my take. I mean, like women just sat there and said, “Whelp, there’s nothing to do. Let’s just take care of the kids.” It’s not some natural evolution. And, for all the people studying the past (in the past) to just be like, “Men hunt, women gather,” is ignoring how women ended up in those roles in the first place. The fact that they needed “evidence” of this is, before comming to that conclusion is…disappointing, but not surprising.

      • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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        20 days ago

        Crap. They just took it from somewhere else and passed it off as their own. Jerk.

        Edit: But then why is this even being debated?

  • Dimi Fisher@lemmy.world
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    20 days ago

    In any way all of those are just speculations, it’s very hard to be sure about anything when you go more than 10000 years back in time, all I know is that in school they teach mostly lies

    • keepthepace@slrpnk.net
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      20 days ago

      Personally I find it weird that we do generalities about a this population as it is very likely that they had all different cultures on the tribe level.

      • Dimi Fisher@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        First of all it’s not even sure that thousands of years ago there was only primitive tribes around the globe, many finds indicate that on this planet existed civilisations different and more advanced even than are own, check Velikovsky and Graham Hancock he wrote many books about the subject.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          20 days ago

          many finds indicate that on this planet existed civilisations different and more advanced even than are own

          Oh lord.

        • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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          20 days ago

          many finds indicate that on this planet existed civilisations different and more advanced even than are own

          Insane nonsense

          check Velikovsky and Graham Hancock he wrote many books about the subject.

          Velikovsky: “Russian, Israeli and American author, known for his fringe catastrophist theories, widely considered as pseudoscientific by mainstream scholars” (wiki)

          Graham Hancock: “British author who promotes pseudoscientific theories. Hancock aims to erode trust in known facts and archaeological expertise” (wiki)

          Definitely not opportunistic sociopaths trying to distort reality to fit their personal agendas. /s

          Neither have any qualifications whatsoever in the subject of history or archeology.

      • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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        20 days ago

        You’re right in some regard though I still believe taking note of trends is important, don’t you? If most pre-record civilizations we find have behaved and lived in a certain way it could tell us something notable about our past.

  • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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    21 days ago

    Eıŋtcint Siþıėnz a-ſ hæd ƿimin æz worıyṙz. T inu̇f v æn ekſtent ðæt ðı muıt bı ð beıſiſ f ð Æmėzȯn worıyṙz v ledjend.

    spoiler

    Ancient Scythians also had women as warriors. To enough of an extent that they might be the basis for the Amazon warriors of legend.

  • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee
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    20 days ago

    The only thing that might predispose women is when they get pregnant. Most forms of hunting don’t require excessive strength. This is not speculation, prehistoric people do not give a shit about your value system or how it imposes itself on science. Animals in animal world be animals.

  • Wild Bill@midwest.social
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    20 days ago

    I thought everyone knew this. Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed and people started settling down instead of being nomadic.

    • Steak@lemmy.ca
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      20 days ago

      Men definitely did more hunting then woman in most of human history lmao you are insane

        • Steak@lemmy.ca
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          19 days ago

          Men are faster and stronger. Men don’t spend a good portion of their lives growing children and breastfeeding them. So more free time to hunt. Men’s eyesight is literally better at picking up motion than woman’s and men have better reflex’s and hand eye coordination. Men outperform woman in almost all aspents of what it takes to be a great hunter back in the early human days.

            • Steak@lemmy.ca
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              18 days ago

              You really like that therapy line huh. Look there is a reason we have womans and men’s divisions in sports. Men would destroy the woman at almost all sports. If your fragile femininity cannot handle that, I recommend therapy. This has nothing to do with my masculinity and everything to with science and results. Sorry it doesn’t work out the way you want it to. Again. Therapy.

              Edit: word

              • drake@lemmy.sdf.org
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                18 days ago

                Actually, the history of why women divisions arose in sports is far more nuanced than you seem to believe. The main reasons for doing so were primarily rooted in sexism. Historical records show that women were able to compete with, and win against, men in sporting events during the early middle ages.

                Anyways, I see there’s no reasoning with you, so I hope you have a pleasant evening

                • Steak@lemmy.ca
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                  18 days ago

                  What are you even looking at records from the middle ages for? Humans haven’t changed that much since then lmao. All we have to do is look at records from today. And guess what? Across the board men perform at a way higher level in almost all sports and physical activities. What makes you think the reason for different divisions was sexism? if the woman could compete with the men society would let them. Especially nowadays, why don’t you see men’s vs woman’s hockey on TV? Because it would be boring, the men would beat the woman everytime it wouldn’t even be fair. This is a really hard pill for you to swallow isn’t it?

                  And looking at you comment history it doesn’t look like you have any personal experience being athletic in the slightest, let alone being near the top in a given sport. You are disabled and can’t stand without sever pain. I have been an athlete my entire life and so have my sisters. Guess what? I can destroy every one of my sisters at every sport and it’s not even close. And they aren’t couch slobs, they play sports at a very high level, they just play against other woman. They know they don’t stand a chance against the men. We’re two very different things when it comes to physical ability.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      20 days ago

      Not just nomadic. Many sedentary societies lack strong gender divisions in labor as well.

    • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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      20 days ago

      Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed…

      Like being pregnant and giving birth (as many times as possible), breastfeeding, and raising those same infants while the men are doing tasks that are unfeasible for pregnant breastfeeding women taking care of infants?, like hunting, building shelters and going to war, among other things? (Which some women did, but the majority did not)

      Oh, ya ya, for sure. A lot of people in this thread seem to be sharing the same anti-anthropology delusion. Which is very concerning but not surprising in the age of misinformation. More culture-war BS.

      • drake@lemmy.sdf.org
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        19 days ago

        Anthropology tends to support the fact that women and men pretty much all had equal share of pretty much every task in the palaeolithic and neolithic eras.

        You shouldn’t just reject scientific advances because it goes against what you learned at school. What you learned was wrong. Science adapts based on new evidence. You can too.

    • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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      20 days ago

      You can downvote me and science, but wake me up if you come up with a real argument disputing the entire field of endocrinology, molecular biology, and the rest of biology by extension. Not to mention archeology and anthropology.

      At the very simplest way to understand, you do know the difference between testosterone and estrogen, and their biological mechanisms, correct? Rhetorical.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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        20 days ago

        It’s the anthropology that proves the claim.

        Tell us more about your opinions on high school biology and how no woman ever hunted as much as men in her culture.

        • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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          20 days ago

          Edit: edited out my petty comment directed towards a miscommunication that is now resolved.

            • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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              20 days ago

              (I thought) the meme implies all women. Oh I understand your other comment now. My comment is only valid if the meme implied all women, and i had no malicious intent.

              If reading as “some”, then yes I fully agree. I guess it depends who is reading it, and I’m assuming it was written that way by design, to get people like us to fight over a misunderstanding.

              Sending good vibes🤙

              Edit: (I thought)

  • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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    20 days ago

    Did women also hunt? Yes.

    “As much as men”?

    No, beyond any shadow of doubt. Stop trying to white wash over history and verifiable evidence to try and push your personal agenda of stoking culture-wars.

    Unless we’re talking about tribes where the men took care of the children, the above statement is exaggerated at best and borders on anti-history/anti-anthropology nonsense at worst.

    You might as well post that the men spent as much time taking care of the children than the women. And if you can admit that is false for the majority of human history, then you can clearly see how this being false also disqualifies the “women spent as much time hunting” statement.

    Again, there is no debate on the fact that many women were great hunters and not just gatherers, but you also can’t deny that most of the women took care of the kids.

    Looks like I took the bait, didn’t I…smh lol

    • kersplomp@programming.dev
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      20 days ago

      To say it’s “completely incorrect” is an exaggeration at best. The paper you cited is far more nuanced than that.

      • canihasaccount@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        A bit of an exaggeration, sure. But only a bit. The lay summary of the article I referenced states the following:

        Venkataraman et al. find that the paper commits every error that it was possible to make in the paper: leaving out important papers, including irrelevant papers, using duplicate papers, mis-coding their societies, getting the wrong values for “big” versus “small” game, and many others.

        “commits every error that it was possible to make in the paper,” and, “completely incorrect,” aren’t very different.

    • Murvel@lemm.ee
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      20 days ago

      I remember reading this simply terrible article in Scientific American; the entire article was based on this research paper referred to the meme above.

      The paper was a complete fraud, and people just guzzled the cool-aid. He’ll they still do, looking at this thread.

      • Cypher@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        I refuted this article when it was published based on their incredibly biased and cherry picked data sources which were entirely baseless.

        I wish more people were willing to apply critical thinking and analysis to such claims. All falsified claims are a setback and detriment to humankind’s comprehension of the universe.

  • Jumpingspiderman@reddthat.com
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    20 days ago

    I grew up in Da Yoop. In my high school, our head cheer leader was an expert bow hunter. This “discovery” is not in any way a surprise to me.

    • Smith6826@sopuli.xyz
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      20 days ago

      It’s echo-chamber, culture-war nonsense. There’s a reason men are the vast majority of physical jobs, and it’s not because anyone is stopping qualified women from working.

      Just as an example, in my personal experience, we rarely received women’s applications to work warehouse or roofing, and even less who met the qualifications of being able to pick up minimum 50lbs (not that heavy, approximately 2x 24’s of beer) on their own.

      I’d also like to point out that, while I’m not trying to minimize her impressive achievements, your friend is from modern society, not ancient. She had the privilege of going to school, being a cheerleader and having free time, instead of cranking out babies in the ancient wilderness.

  • BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee
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    20 days ago

    That’s why when you see documentaries about tribes that had little to no contact to the outside world, women are often hunting and do the heavy lifting and men are at home raising kids and taking care of the village while the women are out there. I mean i haven’t seen it, but according to this one weird paper they must exist.