Another way to view this is that the poor are voting republican now. Trump won those making less than $100,000 handedly while Harris won those making above. Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
The democrats are slowly becoming the party of the out of touch elite, and memes like this don’t help. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems, and trump has shown it doesn’t matter if they’re viable or will actually help. If these “dumb poor people are rubes who will fall for anything” give them something to fall for. Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
This is exactly what I was pointing out to my friends. Every one of us are making six figures, and could not understand why anybody would vote Trump.
And I asked them how many people in their lives are poor, living paycheck to paycheck. I have family members who are working two or three jobs to get by. All the work Biden did is not being seen or recognized by them.
Are they are under-educated yokels? Are they morons for not keeping up with politics? You can call them what ever you want. Theyre still a voter.
Face it: what they’re hearing from Democrats vs what they’re hearing from Trump are pretty clear cut and we can stay in this echo chamber all we want on Lemmy. Those folks aren’t listening to us. They’re just trying to survive and will vote accordingly.
bring manufacturing back. … unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same…. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems
Perhaps like the CHIPS act or IRA? Instead of demogoguing, democrats followed through with actual investment in manufacturing, unionism, infrastructure. Supposedly 80% of that manufacturing investment went to red states
Is this one of these scenarios where people are too impatient with the time it takes to get a factory off the ground, so votes out the group making that investment over someone who’s “good for business” or at least taking credit ?
The chips act was more about national security then employment. Semiconductor manufacturing doesn’t require much labor and isn’t a mass employer. Even in Taiwan it only employs around 300,000 or 2% of people. Even if the chips act somehow brought all 300,000 of those jobs over here, which it wont, it would still be a drop in the bucket in the u.s.
The ira was better but was still limited in it’s effect. Most Americans don’t see the effect it had or don’t think they’re effected. You need universal programs that are easy to see the effects: Free school lunch, Medicare for all, raising the minimum wage, subsidized child care, student loan forgiveness etc.
Also I don’t believe Americans actually want to work in manufacturing. They really just want the stability, dignity and pay that union manufacturing jobs provided. If they got those from unionizing a Walmart or Starbucks then they’d probably be happier as those jobs are safer and less monotonous. This combined with the fact everything would get more expensive if it were manufactured here, no one could afford an iPhone built in america, makes me think the onshoring movement is a dead end politically and we should instead be focused on unionization.
CA, NY, IL and MA are all in the top 5 for states that have the most people leaving.
TX, FL, NC and AZ are attracting the most people.
Massachusetts has priced out average people. If you aren’t the inheritor of some generational wealth you have a better chance of being upwardly mobile elsewhere.
You can’t blame “rent gouging” without blaming the government for condoning it and setting up the conditions that encourage it.
The cost of living in blue states is absolutely due to city/state level Democrats. Democrats write the zoning laws. Democrats decide the tax laws. Democrats build the infrastructure and public transportation. Democrats also vote down rent control and affordable housing requirements.
Red states are controlled by rich Republicans. Blue states are controlled by rich Democrats. Sure, Republican rule makes Oklahoma the shit hole that it is. But don’t try to give Democrats a pass for making Massachusetts as expensive as it is.
That really has mostly to do with the high cost of living. And it’s going to be high in an area inhabited by businesses on the cutting edge of technology. Those jobs have high wages because they need highly educated people, and highly educated people come from the best universities in the country, many of which are in Boston, and Cambridge. Not to mention the great schools in commuter range in Providence and Worcester.
Red states don’t have higher education, and they don’t have innovative industry, so they don’t have the population density issues that blue states have.
Maybe if red states had these things, they’d have a high cost of living, too.
Most of the people fleeing MA for those states are working remotely for their companies still in MA. Mostly DINKS and young (primarily male) single professionals that don’t really have public education or healthcare as any sort of immediate concern. That’s gonna lead to problems when the average age of red state populations inverts itself. Better make sure that they can’t not have babies.
So according to you it’s worse to acknowledge we can’t go back in time than to lie to people and promise that which we (in the 3rd party pov sense, meaning NYC republicans) actively subvert every day? One would have to be exceptionally stupid and stubbornly uninformed to believe this is reasonable.
but yes, democratic leaders have left us, so it’s easy to say both sides are corrupt, especially as long as insider trading and conflicts of interest are OK to them.
Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
Democrats are forbidden by their patrons from using too much populist rhetoric. That’s the number one reason why they fail to connect with what has become a very populist country, thanks to decades of wealth transfer to the top.
Bernie used populist language and the Democratic establishment pulled out all the stops to give us “anybody but Bernie”. Now we are living the consequences.
What’s neat is that you appear to have internalized the conservative view of the Democratic machine in this country. They are completely incompetent…but also such shadowy and powerful figures they control what everyone says and does and control who votes for who…except when it comes to republicans who these scary shadowy figures are unable to competently manipulate ever…
If you want to argue today that the Democrats aren’t failures at fighting Republicans and specifically Trump, I would love to hear that argument.
There was nothing “shadowy” about the “anybody but Bernie” effort in 2020. They might have preferred it to be quieter, but I think just about every relevant detail of that scheme leaked, and it played out quite transparently. Are you arguing that it didn’t happen?
It’s not as much about competence as it is about perspective. The Democratic establishment is somewhat competently running strategies that are well suited for the 90s but completely out of touch with where voters are today.
People are scared and angry already. Not everyone has the financial stability you apparently do. Republicans focus that fear on the powerless. Democrats pretend it’s not there. You can’t respond to struggling families with “the economy is great!”
You lumped a huge percentage of people as putting their fingers in their ears.
Maga is going to vote maga. And there’s a huge chunk that didn’t vote or were surprised Biden dropped out. Those folks didn’t put their fingers in their ears. Like Bernie said, they were ignored.
People who were surprised 5 months after Biden dropped out didn’t have their fingers in their ears in your version of the world? I think you and I mean very different things by that phrase.
With all the fucking TV ads and mailers the campaign spent billions on. If the average voters is just covering there ears then why spend so much on advertising or why even campaign at all? Yeah some people are like that but they’re deep in the maga cult, there’s still a large amount of people open to both sides if the messaging is right that decided this election. Harris’ messaging didn’t work though.
I mean the marketing was effective. A lot of people including Donald trump thought he was going to lose. Just not effective at getting people who support Biden to get off their ass.
You go on Joe Rogan for one. Kamala ran the last presidential campaign that will ever rely so heavily on the legacy media apparatus. This whole cycle proved that they are only broadcasting to themselves and real people are elsewhere on podcasts, twitter and YT.
Let Bernie be Encharge. I am jealous that the US has Bernie. Seeing all this shit storm from afar, I now just believe the US doesn’t deserve Bernie at all. He is too good for the US.
Check out leopards eating faces for the next few years…those people, whether it’s moms surprised the education department is again going to punish their kids, Muslims surprised trump hates Muslims and wants them eradicated, EV company owners who think being allowed to support means being part of the narcissists inner circle, Latinos shocked that their friends or family members there illegally won’t get special protections no matter how many times McCarthy rears his head.
“EV company owners” aside, most voters in this country just want something to change, and they’ll vote for whoever promises the most of it. Harris’ campaign didn’t do anything nor promise anything that resonated, and practically everything she said ended up morphing into her highly-rehearsed stump speech. No talks about Medicare for All, no talks about the minimum wage, no talks about legalizing weed, and kowtowing to the right on border policy by accepting the ‘crisis’ framing. Harris also failed to address the situation in Gaza in a way that mattered, even though it was a major issue for undecided voters in key states like Michigan. Over 100,000 Democratic primary voters there cast an uncommitted vote over Biden’s handling of Israel and Gaza, which is more than the margin by which she lost the state.
Harris had a potential base on the progressive left, but the DNC insisted on tweaking her campaign to try to win over right-moderates. That doesn’t work anymore, precisely for the “sticking fingers in ears” attitude you mentioned from right-wing voters. It’s asinine for the DNC to continue to try and appeal to them, when the median Republican voter thinks Democrats are agents of a satanic agenda. Regardless, the message the DNC seems to have gotten from Nov 5 was that they lost this election because they failed to move to the right hard enough. The ratchet effect continues.
As a side note, I know several trumpets who would’ve voted for Sanders in 2016 were he the Democratic nominee, and would’ve voted for Walz even this election were he the main guy on the 2024 presidential ticket. Such people are not very coherent ideologically, they just want someone in who has big ideas.
Unfortunately, it’s just not enough to be “not the other guy”, even if the other guy is a convicted felon, rapist, and just all-around a downright awful human being.
Many of those people will inexplicably be against a 50% tax on billionaires for two reasons: 1) they have no concept of how progressive tax brackets work, and think that means they’d be taking literally half that person’s wealth, and 2) they believe that one day they could be in that situation, and when they are, they sure as shit won’t want to pay half of their wealth! (spoiler alert: they won’t)
And until we can change this type of thinking, we will never make those people pay their fair share.
This is what decades of American Exceptionalism, and Rugged Individualism, does to a nation; Empathy dies, and it becomes every man for themselves.
Another way to view this is that the poor are voting republican now. Trump won those making less than $100,000 handedly while Harris won those making above. Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
The democrats are slowly becoming the party of the out of touch elite, and memes like this don’t help. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems, and trump has shown it doesn’t matter if they’re viable or will actually help. If these “dumb poor people are rubes who will fall for anything” give them something to fall for. Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
This is exactly what I was pointing out to my friends. Every one of us are making six figures, and could not understand why anybody would vote Trump.
And I asked them how many people in their lives are poor, living paycheck to paycheck. I have family members who are working two or three jobs to get by. All the work Biden did is not being seen or recognized by them.
Are they are under-educated yokels? Are they morons for not keeping up with politics? You can call them what ever you want. Theyre still a voter.
Face it: what they’re hearing from Democrats vs what they’re hearing from Trump are pretty clear cut and we can stay in this echo chamber all we want on Lemmy. Those folks aren’t listening to us. They’re just trying to survive and will vote accordingly.
Six figures? Lucky you.
That’s like an average cali salary man. You gotta pump those numbers up
California has one of the highest CoL’s in the country. 51% of Americans made $15k or less in 2021.
Perhaps like the CHIPS act or IRA? Instead of demogoguing, democrats followed through with actual investment in manufacturing, unionism, infrastructure. Supposedly 80% of that manufacturing investment went to red states
Is this one of these scenarios where people are too impatient with the time it takes to get a factory off the ground, so votes out the group making that investment over someone who’s “good for business” or at least taking credit ?
The chips act was more about national security then employment. Semiconductor manufacturing doesn’t require much labor and isn’t a mass employer. Even in Taiwan it only employs around 300,000 or 2% of people. Even if the chips act somehow brought all 300,000 of those jobs over here, which it wont, it would still be a drop in the bucket in the u.s.
The ira was better but was still limited in it’s effect. Most Americans don’t see the effect it had or don’t think they’re effected. You need universal programs that are easy to see the effects: Free school lunch, Medicare for all, raising the minimum wage, subsidized child care, student loan forgiveness etc.
Also I don’t believe Americans actually want to work in manufacturing. They really just want the stability, dignity and pay that union manufacturing jobs provided. If they got those from unionizing a Walmart or Starbucks then they’d probably be happier as those jobs are safer and less monotonous. This combined with the fact everything would get more expensive if it were manufactured here, no one could afford an iPhone built in america, makes me think the onshoring movement is a dead end politically and we should instead be focused on unionization.
Yeah, but what about the vibes, man?
The Democrats must be doing something right, if their states have better everything.
Maybe if the Republicans would listen to us, we could all have the best schools and hospitals.
They don’t have better retention rates.
CA, NY, IL and MA are all in the top 5 for states that have the most people leaving.
TX, FL, NC and AZ are attracting the most people.
Massachusetts has priced out average people. If you aren’t the inheritor of some generational wealth you have a better chance of being upwardly mobile elsewhere.
This is due to rent gouging, not democrats.
You can’t blame “rent gouging” without blaming the government for condoning it and setting up the conditions that encourage it.
The cost of living in blue states is absolutely due to city/state level Democrats. Democrats write the zoning laws. Democrats decide the tax laws. Democrats build the infrastructure and public transportation. Democrats also vote down rent control and affordable housing requirements.
Red states are controlled by rich Republicans. Blue states are controlled by rich Democrats. Sure, Republican rule makes Oklahoma the shit hole that it is. But don’t try to give Democrats a pass for making Massachusetts as expensive as it is.
No, it’s from rental agencies that do as they please out of greed. They don’t condition anything, they just don’t do anything about it.
Even after ignoring everything I said, you still admit I’m right. If the local government doesn’t do anything about it, who is supposed to?
Sure bud.
That really has mostly to do with the high cost of living. And it’s going to be high in an area inhabited by businesses on the cutting edge of technology. Those jobs have high wages because they need highly educated people, and highly educated people come from the best universities in the country, many of which are in Boston, and Cambridge. Not to mention the great schools in commuter range in Providence and Worcester.
Red states don’t have higher education, and they don’t have innovative industry, so they don’t have the population density issues that blue states have.
Maybe if red states had these things, they’d have a high cost of living, too.
Most of the people fleeing MA for those states are working remotely for their companies still in MA. Mostly DINKS and young (primarily male) single professionals that don’t really have public education or healthcare as any sort of immediate concern. That’s gonna lead to problems when the average age of red state populations inverts itself. Better make sure that they can’t not have babies.
And yet. Manufacturing was down under trump in 2016 even before covid hit and under Biden manufacturing is the highest it’s been in decades.
So according to you it’s worse to acknowledge we can’t go back in time than to lie to people and promise that which we (in the 3rd party pov sense, meaning NYC republicans) actively subvert every day? One would have to be exceptionally stupid and stubbornly uninformed to believe this is reasonable.
No, the point is to come up with solutions, ANY solutions. Democrats aren’t even in the game, so the other guy gets to eat the pieces.
The solution proposed was stop mining coal and learn to make modern devices, I think.
That’s like saying you’ll fix unemployment by just getting people jobs! Great… How?
he also proposed nuking a hurricane…
but yes, democratic leaders have left us, so it’s easy to say both sides are corrupt, especially as long as insider trading and conflicts of interest are OK to them.
That was basically Harris’ tax plan.
What Would Kamala Harris’s Tax Plans Mean For You? | Kiplinger - https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/kamala-harriss-tax-plans-2024
It doesn’t matter what your platform is if it’s not communicated effectively to the median voter
How do you communicate effectively to someone with their fingers in their ears screaming nananananananana? Please advise, oh political oracle.
Trump seemed to get through.
Democrats are forbidden by their patrons from using too much populist rhetoric. That’s the number one reason why they fail to connect with what has become a very populist country, thanks to decades of wealth transfer to the top.
Bernie used populist language and the Democratic establishment pulled out all the stops to give us “anybody but Bernie”. Now we are living the consequences.
What’s neat is that you appear to have internalized the conservative view of the Democratic machine in this country. They are completely incompetent…but also such shadowy and powerful figures they control what everyone says and does and control who votes for who…except when it comes to republicans who these scary shadowy figures are unable to competently manipulate ever…
If you want to argue today that the Democrats aren’t failures at fighting Republicans and specifically Trump, I would love to hear that argument.
There was nothing “shadowy” about the “anybody but Bernie” effort in 2020. They might have preferred it to be quieter, but I think just about every relevant detail of that scheme leaked, and it played out quite transparently. Are you arguing that it didn’t happen?
It’s not as much about competence as it is about perspective. The Democratic establishment is somewhat competently running strategies that are well suited for the 90s but completely out of touch with where voters are today.
So basically you lie to them and tell them what they want to hear? Stoke fear of “the others” among them to keep them scared and angry?
Yeah, no, I’m good.
Is that what you think Bernie does?
People are scared and angry already. Not everyone has the financial stability you apparently do. Republicans focus that fear on the powerless. Democrats pretend it’s not there. You can’t respond to struggling families with “the economy is great!”
Ah yes, now that you made fun of the prior commenter, we have convinced the world and now Kamala is president?
Bernie is fucking right.
?
You lumped a huge percentage of people as putting their fingers in their ears.
Maga is going to vote maga. And there’s a huge chunk that didn’t vote or were surprised Biden dropped out. Those folks didn’t put their fingers in their ears. Like Bernie said, they were ignored.
People who were surprised 5 months after Biden dropped out didn’t have their fingers in their ears in your version of the world? I think you and I mean very different things by that phrase.
Yeah those are the epitome of people with the fingers in their ears lol
With all the fucking TV ads and mailers the campaign spent billions on. If the average voters is just covering there ears then why spend so much on advertising or why even campaign at all? Yeah some people are like that but they’re deep in the maga cult, there’s still a large amount of people open to both sides if the messaging is right that decided this election. Harris’ messaging didn’t work though.
I mean the marketing was effective. A lot of people including Donald trump thought he was going to lose. Just not effective at getting people who support Biden to get off their ass.
You go on Joe Rogan for one. Kamala ran the last presidential campaign that will ever rely so heavily on the legacy media apparatus. This whole cycle proved that they are only broadcasting to themselves and real people are elsewhere on podcasts, twitter and YT.
She was on traditional media? I guess I wasn’t there to see either candidate. I only saw both online
She did go on Call Her Daddy.
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Let Bernie be Encharge. I am jealous that the US has Bernie. Seeing all this shit storm from afar, I now just believe the US doesn’t deserve Bernie at all. He is too good for the US.
Who do you think the people putting their fingers in their ears are, in this case?
Check out leopards eating faces for the next few years…those people, whether it’s moms surprised the education department is again going to punish their kids, Muslims surprised trump hates Muslims and wants them eradicated, EV company owners who think being allowed to support means being part of the narcissists inner circle, Latinos shocked that their friends or family members there illegally won’t get special protections no matter how many times McCarthy rears his head.
“EV company owners” aside, most voters in this country just want something to change, and they’ll vote for whoever promises the most of it. Harris’ campaign didn’t do anything nor promise anything that resonated, and practically everything she said ended up morphing into her highly-rehearsed stump speech. No talks about Medicare for All, no talks about the minimum wage, no talks about legalizing weed, and kowtowing to the right on border policy by accepting the ‘crisis’ framing. Harris also failed to address the situation in Gaza in a way that mattered, even though it was a major issue for undecided voters in key states like Michigan. Over 100,000 Democratic primary voters there cast an uncommitted vote over Biden’s handling of Israel and Gaza, which is more than the margin by which she lost the state.
The right took advantage of this. An EV company owner paid a PAC to distribute ostensibly pro-Harris pamphlets in predominantly Arab neighborhoods in Michigan saying she was the most pro-Israel candidate on the ballot. The right helped put abortion rights directly on the state ballots as propositions, letting people believe the choice could be separated from who they voted for (see Florida, where the proposition lost at 57% support when the state voted roughly the same percentage for ol Don).
Harris had a potential base on the progressive left, but the DNC insisted on tweaking her campaign to try to win over right-moderates. That doesn’t work anymore, precisely for the “sticking fingers in ears” attitude you mentioned from right-wing voters. It’s asinine for the DNC to continue to try and appeal to them, when the median Republican voter thinks Democrats are agents of a satanic agenda. Regardless, the message the DNC seems to have gotten from Nov 5 was that they lost this election because they failed to move to the right hard enough. The ratchet effect continues.
As a side note, I know several trumpets who would’ve voted for Sanders in 2016 were he the Democratic nominee, and would’ve voted for Walz even this election were he the main guy on the 2024 presidential ticket. Such people are not very coherent ideologically, they just want someone in who has big ideas.
Unfortunately, it’s just not enough to be “not the other guy”, even if the other guy is a convicted felon, rapist, and just all-around a downright awful human being.
edit: grammar and wording in a couple spots
Many of those people will inexplicably be against a 50% tax on billionaires for two reasons: 1) they have no concept of how progressive tax brackets work, and think that means they’d be taking literally half that person’s wealth, and 2) they believe that one day they could be in that situation, and when they are, they sure as shit won’t want to pay half of their wealth! (spoiler alert: they won’t)
And until we can change this type of thinking, we will never make those people pay their fair share.
This is what decades of American Exceptionalism, and Rugged Individualism, does to a nation; Empathy dies, and it becomes every man for themselves.